The whole "she wanted to kill herself" all sounds a bit like someone putting words into her mouth imo
What Johnson has apparently done is wrong on many levels but I don't think the 15 year old girl is as naive as is being portrayed in the press so far.
Her father said that was what she was telling him before going to the police. It was not like she said it at the court. She broke down in tears many times during the cross-examination the other day. She was clearly heart-broken.
Was this part of the evidence? If not, what for Christ's sake is the father doing putting this information out in the public domain? Has he been paid by a newspaper? Is he just utterly stupid? How does promulgating this information help his daughter? He should hang his head in shame. Disgusting individual.
Yes it was part of the evidence. Everything else you said is utterly offensive to an entirely innocent man, who is already living a parental nightmare.
The worst thing about these threads is the conclusion jumping by people who don't have anywhere near enough evidence to form such outlandish opinions.
The stuff about her effectively asking for it by being flirty or taking bikini photos is some of the most retarded commentary I've yet read on this forum in regards to an ongoing case. Worse than the Ched Evans victim blaming, in fact. And that's saying something.
You didn't read or understand the meaning of "If not" then?
That's not good enough. I could say "you might be a good guy, but if not..." Then say literally anything I liked about you, no matter how spurious. IMO that's not acceptable. The if is too big.
"He should hang his head in shame. Disgusting individual."- pretty extreme statement for an 'if not', don't you think?
I know it's a bit old fashioned, but sometimes it feels that it might just be better to wait for the verdict of the 12 people who have seen and heard all the evidence.
I know it's a bit old fashioned, but sometimes it feels that it might just be better to wait for the verdict of the 12 people who have seen and heard all the evidence.
The poor girl will grow up with this scar due to this idiot being a complete irresponsible prick.
He has (had) everything...beautiful wife, great career, lots of money but still decided to take advantage of someone in a really nasty be-littling way. If he just really wanted to cheat on his wife and have a bit of fun...he almost certainly could have done that with his money and fame. Just approach a woman that fits the profile but is at least old enough to know the consequence of action and not vulnerable to the repercussions.
Idiot.
I feel sorry for Sunderland fans and the family of Johnson's, the victim and her family.
Johnson's sacking may be a blessing in disguise. You don't know if he was a popular person among the Sunderland squad or not. I happened to read a few comments from the Sunderland fans after their victory against Manchester United. They were saying that perhaps what happened in the week gave the players a drive to work harder. If Johnson really is/was a womanizer, he couldn't be a good influence among the players, no matter how many goals he had scored. Well, I know I wouldn't want such a player in our squad. He did something that he will regret for the rest of his life. Maybe he was not a womanizer/paedophile, he was just being curious or plain stupid. But nevertheless it was an unforgivable crime. I feel very sorry for his girlfriend and the girl. But from a female's point of view, I think the girl did something wrong too. What did she expect when she sent a photo of herself in Bikini to Johnson? What did she expect when she went into his car at a place no one could see? How could she not know what was about to happen? How did her classmates know all this if she didn't tell them? And why did she want to tell them? It's easy to guess why. Hope the girl has learned her lesson and will never be used like this again. A cautionary tale for all footballers/celebrities and their young fans.
I think the answer to all of those questions is "because she's a 15 year old child".
The only person that did wrong here is Johnson, not the child that was sexually exploited.
I have to say I agree with @JessieAddick here. Maybe it's beause we are females that we see it slightly differently. I'm not saying that what he did was OK by any means but why send a photo of herself in a bikini?
I think that the sending of a photo and Liason in a car is part of the grooming by a calculating man who knew precisely what he wanted and manipulated a child in an attempt to get.
Sending the photo etc was obviously very foolish and a poor decision but that, in essence is why this man is on trial - Children and young people don't always make good decisions and wise choices. Which is why the law protects them.
Focusing upon the sending of a photo is all part of a sex offenders minimising and blame shifting - it is victim blaming - it's " she was asking for it" .
Even the (very late) guilty plea to lesser offences but denial of more serious offences is classic sex offending behaviour - deny, minimise, blame shift.
The poor girl will grow up with this scar due to this idiot being a complete irresponsible prick.
He has (had) everything...beautiful wife, great career, lots of money but still decided to take advantage of someone in a really nasty be-littling way. If he just really wanted to cheat on his wife and have a bit of fun...he almost certainly could have done that with his money and fame. Just approach a woman that fits the profile but is at least old enough to know the consequence of action and not vulnerable to the repercussions.
Idiot.
I feel sorry for Sunderland fans and the family of Johnson's, the victim and her family.
Johnson's sacking may be a blessing in disguise. You don't know if he was a popular person among the Sunderland squad or not. I happened to read a few comments from the Sunderland fans after their victory against Manchester United. They were saying that perhaps what happened in the week gave the players a drive to work harder. If Johnson really is/was a womanizer, he couldn't be a good influence among the players, no matter how many goals he had scored. Well, I know I wouldn't want such a player in our squad. He did something that he will regret for the rest of his life. Maybe he was not a womanizer/paedophile, he was just being curious or plain stupid. But nevertheless it was an unforgivable crime. I feel very sorry for his girlfriend and the girl. But from a female's point of view, I think the girl did something wrong too. What did she expect when she sent a photo of herself in Bikini to Johnson? What did she expect when she went into his car at a place no one could see? How could she not know what was about to happen? How did her classmates know all this if she didn't tell them? And why did she want to tell them? It's easy to guess why. Hope the girl has learned her lesson and will never be used like this again. A cautionary tale for all footballers/celebrities and their young fans.
I think the answer to all of those questions is "because she's a 15 year old child".
The only person that did wrong here is Johnson, not the child that was sexually exploited.
I have to say I agree with @JessieAddick here. Maybe it's beause we are females that we see it slightly differently. I'm not saying that what he did was OK by any means but why send a photo of herself in a bikini?
@Arsenetatters & @JessieAddick Because she is a child. Children make mistakes, adults should pretect them when they make those mistakes, not rape them.
The poor girl will grow up with this scar due to this idiot being a complete irresponsible prick.
He has (had) everything...beautiful wife, great career, lots of money but still decided to take advantage of someone in a really nasty be-littling way. If he just really wanted to cheat on his wife and have a bit of fun...he almost certainly could have done that with his money and fame. Just approach a woman that fits the profile but is at least old enough to know the consequence of action and not vulnerable to the repercussions.
Idiot.
I feel sorry for Sunderland fans and the family of Johnson's, the victim and her family.
Johnson's sacking may be a blessing in disguise. You don't know if he was a popular person among the Sunderland squad or not. I happened to read a few comments from the Sunderland fans after their victory against Manchester United. They were saying that perhaps what happened in the week gave the players a drive to work harder. If Johnson really is/was a womanizer, he couldn't be a good influence among the players, no matter how many goals he had scored. Well, I know I wouldn't want such a player in our squad. He did something that he will regret for the rest of his life. Maybe he was not a womanizer/paedophile, he was just being curious or plain stupid. But nevertheless it was an unforgivable crime. I feel very sorry for his girlfriend and the girl. But from a female's point of view, I think the girl did something wrong too. What did she expect when she sent a photo of herself in Bikini to Johnson? What did she expect when she went into his car at a place no one could see? How could she not know what was about to happen? How did her classmates know all this if she didn't tell them? And why did she want to tell them? It's easy to guess why. Hope the girl has learned her lesson and will never be used like this again. A cautionary tale for all footballers/celebrities and their young fans.
I think the answer to all of those questions is "because she's a 15 year old child".
The only person that did wrong here is Johnson, not the child that was sexually exploited.
I have to say I agree with @JessieAddick here. Maybe it's beause we are females that we see it slightly differently. I'm not saying that what he did was OK by any means but why send a photo of herself in a bikini?
@Arsenetatters & @JessieAddick Because she is a child. Children make mistakes, adults should pretect them when they make those mistakes, not rape them.
As far as I'm aware he didn't rape her but please DO NOT think that I believe what he did do to her is in any way, shape or form OK.
I get your point. We'll have to agree to disagree. I still wonder if I see it slightly differently as I'm a female.
As a female you should see it totaly different to how you seem to as you have been a 15yr old girl, Me being male and over 28 see it from the the point of every other normal man who knows that the only reason he done it is because he is a nonce and he abused his postition of an adult and took advantage of a child
Would this have got court if he wasn't a Prem footballer?
I assume this is a bit of whoosh bait, Riviera? Otherwise, no, the police and CPS would have turned her out on her ear and told her to come back when she had been abused by a Prem footballer then they might take her seriously
I thought it was a reasonable question, the police seem pretty selective about the crimes they investigate these days.
Well, I always understood they don't like wasting public money so they only tend to prosecute where there is a reasonable chance of conviction - rather than selecting on the basis of how high profile the accused. But what do I know?
What is worrying me at the moment is the role Sunderland FC played in this. We know Connor Wickham was receiving messages from the girl, which he very sensibly passed on to the authorities. Sunderland have announced that they wont sue Johnson for the remainder of his contract. Could it be they knew of his guilt, but continued to play him anyway in pursuit of premier league riches?
I think they made the right decision not to sue him. If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that he signed a four-year-deal with them which was about to expire at the end of this season. So there were only a few months left on his contract. This case obviously has done damage to the public image of Sunderland but to what extent? That's hard to measure so if they sue him, it would be difficult to put the damage into an actual financial figure and it would only increase unnecessary attention on the whole club. They are in a relegation battle and I'm sure no matter what the verdict will be, the last thing they want is distraction this case brings. And that is partly why they got rid of Johnson as soon as he pleaded guilty.
Johnson lied to his girlfriend's face when the police went to his house to arrest him, saying that the girl told him she was 16. So I guess he also lied to his club about the whole thing - he probably thought he could get away with it otherwise he wouldn't have waited for a year to confess. According to the defence lawyer, the girl liked Conor Wickham's pictures on social media websites and posted a few comments/sent messages to him, two months after the Johnson incidents took place. No-one has said that the girl told what Johnson did to her to Wickham. Had Sunderland known for sure what exactly had happened, I don't think they would have let Johnson continue to work for them.
That's not good enough. I could say "you might be a good guy, but if not..." Then say literally anything I liked about you, no matter how spurious. IMO that's not acceptable. The if is too big.
"He should hang his head in shame. Disgusting individual."- pretty extreme statement for an 'if not', don't you think?
Okay, I'll try to explain further. First, I'm not by any strech of the imagination an expert. But, while it's a complex area, I doubted that the matter had been given in evidence by her father (as indicated here) because I'd assumed it would be hearsay and inadmissable.
My view, was that it would have been up to the victim herself, when examined by the prosecuting counsel, to give evidence about her state of mind after the event, not someone else she had told. Only the victim or an expert witness would have valid input on this matter, I'd have thought. Then is this information more appropriate to be included in the victim impact statement during sentencing rather than during the trial? As it seems to me to have little to do with the actual proceedings and is not evidence concerning the matters being prosecuted. In the same way that the impact on the mental health of the victim of an aggravated burglary is something the judge would want to know about when considering the sentence to be handed down rather than when the jury is listening to the pertinent evidence.
So, that was my position at the time. Others have since said the information was given in evidence by her father, which I still don't understand. But, in any case I apologise for the suggestions I made.
Just to clarify did this girl text Wickham and post comments on his photos just two months after being 'devistated' by the behaviour of another professional footballer?
Without getting bogged down by the details of this, particular, case it seems a little strange that any girl that felt 'abused' would want to 'approach' another footballer when the last one she engaged with left her wanting to take her own life.
Something doesn't, quite, add up for me there. This is no way justifies Johnson's actions but it doesn't come across as though this girl was manipulated 100% into doing something she didn't want to do. No amount of 'grooming' would have made her go on to approach another footballer would it?
Or was she a teenager hurt by someone who treated her in the manor Johnson did ans as such acted like a scorned child and flirted with his mate to make jonhnson jealous,
It's all down to what that filth done to her mind as much as her physically
Just to clarify did this girl text Wickham and post comments on his photos just two months after being 'devistated' by the behaviour of another professional footballer?
Without getting bogged down by the details of this, particular, case it seems a little strange that any girl that felt 'abused' would want to 'approach' another footballer when the last one she engaged with left her wanting to take her own life.
Something doesn't, quite, add up for me there. This is no way justifies Johnson's actions but it doesn't come across as though this girl was manipulated 100% into doing something she didn't want to do. No amount of 'grooming' would have made her go on to approach another footballer would it?
From the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12160949/Adam-Johnson-child-sex-trial-Wednesday-live-updates.html It emerged in court on Tuesday that the schoolgirl alleged groomed by Johnson also approached a second Premier League footballer online. Johnson's defence barrister, Orlando Pownall QC, told the court that two months after the blonde teenager's alleged sexual encounter with his client, she sent messages to rising football star Connor Wickham on social media, telling him that she "liked" his pictures. Mr Pownall said that the images had been provided to the police by Wickham, 22, who is now a forward for Crystal Palace but was then a teammate of Johnson at Sunderland. Addressing the victim, Mr Pownall said: "You were liking another footballer's pictures weren't you?" You liked the picture of Connor Wickham and posted comments on his Facebook and Instagram accounts." Speaking to the court via video link, the schoolgirl said: "I really can't remember doing that...but it doesn't change what happened with Mr Johnson".
The defence lawyer deliberately brought it up to make her look like someone crazy about footballers. Like I said the other day, these details don't look good for her. Poor girl.
Or was she a teenager hurt by someone who treated her in the manor Johnson did ans as such acted like a scorned child and flirted with his mate to make jonhnson jealous,
It's all down to what that filth done to her mind as much as her physically
It's very admiral for you to be so protective of a young woman and her reputation but I think you are being a little too generous to her and her motives.
This kind of behaviour is not just limited to teenagers (half of which are sixteen and over in any case) but many men and women make a deliberate attempt at attention grabbing by 'flirting' with someone that their ex-partner knows. This was not, necessarily, the behaviour of a child that knows no better. Was this girl just going to text Wickham and say 'Hi'? Was she going to send him a photo of her in a bikini? Was she going to meet him in his car in a quiet place?
My niece is twenty but some of the stories that she told me of the things the girls in her class got up to when she was fifteen suggest that not all fifteen year old girls are innocent and naive. They even have drop in clinics in many schools to test for STDs. As I've already said a twenty-eight year old that, knowingly, enters into a sexual relationship with someone under sixteen deserves to be punished for breaking the law. It just doesn't seem as though she was 'damaged' by it all, nor does it seem as though she was 'bullied' into doing something that she didn't believe she was emotionally prepared for. In fact, from the little that I've read, she seems most angry that he is calling her a liar, presumably by denying their involvement, which suggests that she had told people about it.
Just to clarify did this girl text Wickham and post comments on his photos just two months after being 'devistated' by the behaviour of another professional footballer?
Without getting bogged down by the details of this, particular, case it seems a little strange that any girl that felt 'abused' would want to 'approach' another footballer when the last one she engaged with left her wanting to take her own life.
Something doesn't, quite, add up for me there. This is no way justifies Johnson's actions but it doesn't come across as though this girl was manipulated 100% into doing something she didn't want to do. No amount of 'grooming' would have made her go on to approach another footballer would it?
From the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12160949/Adam-Johnson-child-sex-trial-Wednesday-live-updates.html It emerged in court on Tuesday that the schoolgirl alleged groomed by Johnson also approached a second Premier League footballer online. Johnson's defence barrister, Orlando Pownall QC, told the court that two months after the blonde teenager's alleged sexual encounter with his client, she sent messages to rising football star Connor Wickham on social media, telling him that she "liked" his pictures. Mr Pownall said that the images had been provided to the police by Wickham, 22, who is now a forward for Crystal Palace but was then a teammate of Johnson at Sunderland. Addressing the victim, Mr Pownall said: "You were liking another footballer's pictures weren't you?" You liked the picture of Connor Wickham and posted comments on his Facebook and Instagram accounts." Speaking to the court via video link, the schoolgirl said: "I really can't remember doing that...but it doesn't change what happened with Mr Johnson".
The defence lawyer deliberately brought it up to make her look like someone crazy about footballers. Like I said the other day, these details don't look good for her. Poor girl.
She's right when she says that it doesn't change what happened with Johnson but I agree with you Jessie, it doesn't make her look at all good and makes her father's comments look a little questionable. At a guess, I think she was probably more affected by being rejected by Johnson, especially if she'd told a few friends, than she was at the fact that he got involved with her in the first place.
Just to reiterate, again, none of this excuses Johnson's actions but I'm not convinced the man is guilty of ruining her life, intentionally or otherwise.
They might not be innocent and niave and nor am I any way fooling myself that they are or she is, but she is a child by law and as such a child by mind and actions
that's why we have the law that's why we have adults not allowed to have such liasons with children
Connor Wickham has Morale fibre and standing and not an ounce of paedophile thoughts, he done the right thing
Adam Johnson on the other hand is a filthy peado bastd and the girl could have stripped naked and begged him for it, it would make no difference he knew she was 15 and should not have been anywhere with that child to get himself in that situation, the fact he was shows he didn't care and wanted to do it
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"He should hang his head in shame. Disgusting individual."- pretty extreme statement for an 'if not', don't you think?
... What? Nah.
I get your point. We'll have to agree to disagree. I still wonder if I see it slightly differently as I'm a female.
But what do I know?
Johnson lied to his girlfriend's face when the police went to his house to arrest him, saying that the girl told him she was 16. So I guess he also lied to his club about the whole thing - he probably thought he could get away with it otherwise he wouldn't have waited for a year to confess. According to the defence lawyer, the girl liked Conor Wickham's pictures on social media websites and posted a few comments/sent messages to him, two months after the Johnson incidents took place. No-one has said that the girl told what Johnson did to her to Wickham. Had Sunderland known for sure what exactly had happened, I don't think they would have let Johnson continue to work for them.
My view, was that it would have been up to the victim herself, when examined by the prosecuting counsel, to give evidence about her state of mind after the event, not someone else she had told. Only the victim or an expert witness would have valid input on this matter, I'd have thought.
Then is this information more appropriate to be included in the victim impact statement during sentencing rather than during the trial? As it seems to me to have little to do with the actual proceedings and is not evidence concerning the matters being prosecuted. In the same way that the impact on the mental health of the victim of an aggravated burglary is something the judge would want to know about when considering the sentence to be handed down rather than when the jury is listening to the pertinent evidence.
So, that was my position at the time. Others have since said the information was given in evidence by her father, which I still don't understand. But, in any case I apologise for the suggestions I made.
Without getting bogged down by the details of this, particular, case it seems a little strange that any girl that felt 'abused' would want to 'approach' another footballer when the last one she engaged with left her wanting to take her own life.
Something doesn't, quite, add up for me there. This is no way justifies Johnson's actions but it doesn't come across as though this girl was manipulated 100% into doing something she didn't want to do. No amount of 'grooming' would have made her go on to approach another footballer would it?
It's all down to what that filth done to her mind as much as her physically
It emerged in court on Tuesday that the schoolgirl alleged groomed by Johnson also approached a second Premier League footballer online. Johnson's defence barrister, Orlando Pownall QC, told the court that two months after the blonde teenager's alleged sexual encounter with his client, she sent messages to rising football star Connor Wickham on social media, telling him that she "liked" his pictures. Mr Pownall said that the images had been provided to the police by Wickham, 22, who is now a forward for Crystal Palace but was then a teammate of Johnson at Sunderland. Addressing the victim, Mr Pownall said: "You were liking another footballer's pictures weren't you?" You liked the picture of Connor Wickham and posted comments on his Facebook and Instagram accounts." Speaking to the court via video link, the schoolgirl said: "I really can't remember doing that...but it doesn't change what happened with Mr Johnson".
The defence lawyer deliberately brought it up to make her look like someone crazy about footballers. Like I said the other day, these details don't look good for her. Poor girl.
This kind of behaviour is not just limited to teenagers (half of which are sixteen and over in any case) but many men and women make a deliberate attempt at attention grabbing by 'flirting' with someone that their ex-partner knows. This was not, necessarily, the behaviour of a child that knows no better. Was this girl just going to text Wickham and say 'Hi'? Was she going to send him a photo of her in a bikini? Was she going to meet him in his car in a quiet place?
My niece is twenty but some of the stories that she told me of the things the girls in her class got up to when she was fifteen suggest that not all fifteen year old girls are innocent and naive. They even have drop in clinics in many schools to test for STDs. As I've already said a twenty-eight year old that, knowingly, enters into a sexual relationship with someone under sixteen deserves to be punished for breaking the law. It just doesn't seem as though she was 'damaged' by it all, nor does it seem as though she was 'bullied' into doing something that she didn't believe she was emotionally prepared for. In fact, from the little that I've read, she seems most angry that he is calling her a liar, presumably by denying their involvement, which suggests that she had told people about it.
She's right when she says that it doesn't change what happened with Johnson but I agree with you Jessie, it doesn't make her look at all good and makes her father's comments look a little questionable. At a guess, I think she was probably more affected by being rejected by Johnson, especially if she'd told a few friends, than she was at the fact that he got involved with her in the first place.
Just to reiterate, again, none of this excuses Johnson's actions but I'm not convinced the man is guilty of ruining her life, intentionally or otherwise.
that's why we have the law that's why we have adults not allowed to have such liasons with children
Connor Wickham has Morale fibre and standing and not an ounce of paedophile thoughts, he done the right thing
Adam Johnson on the other hand is a filthy peado bastd and the girl could have stripped naked and begged him for it, it would make no difference he knew she was 15 and should not have been anywhere with that child to get himself in that situation, the fact he was shows he didn't care and wanted to do it