Card's mandate was to ensure a 'swift resolution' to the problems with the board and fans. Or at least that what was on the bumf I read. So card got it wrong.
Was it? I never read anything like that. Around the time CARD were formed, it was thought that a swift resolution may help in the fact that Varney's buyers were looking to buy at the earliest opportunity, but CARD will be fully aware that these types of things can often drag on. That said, the sooner RD sells, the better, who knows where we could be if they continue to run the club into the ground.
It's been stated, even by the regime that there is constant interest from other parties to acquire the club. Whilst regime change can be a gamble, it's a gamble worth taking as currently, we are in a downward spiral with owners who think they know it all, despite the fact we are failing due to their inept running of the club.
There are other fans at this club as well. There are fans that care just as much about CAFC than those that throw plastic balls about. They need convincing that an action group is not a wrecking crew.
I think most fans realise that CARD are NOT a wrecking crew which is why so many participate in the protests and sing the anti-regime songs. Most fans support the protests, the most recent survey from CAST are evidence of that.
The club was relegated to the old third division before and none of this abuse was experienced against the board - why? Maybe some of the fans liked being mates with the board at that time.
Or maybe they were given more leeway because that particular board had reigned over one of the most successful periods in our history?
You come here and criticise CARD, yet you have no idea of their origins, and seemingly no clue of their objectives either. Maybe you should educate yourself on some important facts before making these types of posts.
No they are not CAST, they are CARD, they are a coalition (yes the clue is in the title) of a number of supporters groups and protest groups.
You take the club as you find it. If you don't like it don't go. Season ticket boycotts (really) the club know they same faces will go.
We have been in worse positions.
Many of the same faces will NOT go. I was one of the same faces for the best part of 20 years and I'm not going. There are countless others in the same position.
Clearly we have been in worse positions, but it was THE FANS that got us out of that position.
Belgiumbun. You have repeated what is largely a myth regarding Curbishley. There are other inaccuracies in your post which you may want to consider tightening up.
I welcome what is largely an opinion piece, what you say will sharpen the thinking of those who disagree with you, and I count myself as one of them.
A couple of pieces of regime perception you neglect to mention is that it is simply a message board thing, and if results pick up it will all go away.
You have mentioned Roland's problem about engaging with fans, so maybe on that basis alone we have the protests because Roland won't engage.
In addition we have what fans can see with their own eyes, failure in all quarters.
What makes the fans incredulous is that in true Orwellian double-speak style we are basically told failure is success, like we were told how successful the wondrous parade of managers we have had has been.
If the regime thinks their work is so good in the face of demonstrable failure, then they will also think the efforts of CARD are failures and not what they demonstrably are, successes.
Your post indicates a line of reasoning that says nothing can be done to make things any better, and you indicate the present reality as evidence. The efforts by CARD and others is to alter and shift the present reality, that may lead to Roland reviewing his position.
In this regard you refer to the unlikeliness of change and one reason you give is that 'Katrien has bigger balls than the fans'.
Katrien may well be doing a 'badge of honour/tough it out' marathon, but whilst nurturing those big cojones (see what I did there?), her straightforward incompetence is degrading the club far more than any fan action.
Katrien may be charming, may be gutsy, may be educated to a pretty high level, may have balls bigger than a whale's, but she is no good at running a football club for all of those attributes.
It could be that another reason CARD is happening is because the club is simply run so badly, and there are extra delicacies added where are fans are actively alienated which is nothing to do with CARD at all. This active alienation runs from the micro, like hindering the access to the some of the less mobile supporters; to the macro like irritating 98% of supporters regarding the big screen this season.
When the club is so badly run it is not a suprise there is a reaction, and when the club has no footballing ambition there is also no suprise there is a reaction.
Card's mandate was to ensure a 'swift resolution' to the problems with the board and fans. Or at least that what was on the bumf I read. So card got it wrong. For a swift resolution, you need people willing to talk. The protests are (IMHO) more likely to make RD reconsider his investment.
Replace Roland with who? Someone who has a clue.
Replace Katrien with who. I refer you to the answer I gave some moments ago.
There are other fans at this club as well. There are fans that care just as much about CAFC than those that throw plastic balls about. They need convincing that an action group is not a wrecking crew. Well, CARD have put together some fairly useful information over the last few months, I'd suggest looking there. CARD are always seeking to inform and persuade fellow fans. You could try talking to someone handing out literature, or alternatively, I hear that reading up on things is highly recommended. There is a significant volume of material on Charlton Life.
There are alternatives to fighting Yes, among which are rolling over and playing dead, begging for crumbs at the Master's table, and letting RD/KM destroy the club. But, then again, legitimate protest is not "fighting".
The egos on this board demonstrate that reasoned debate is difficult I will think that you will find that there is plenty of reasoned debate, and people here, and elsewhere, willing to engage. Would that the same could be said for "The Shareholder" and that shadowy but silent individual (except when belittling fans) the "CEO".
The club was relegated to the old third division before and none of this abuse was experienced against the board - why? Maybe some of the fans liked being mates with the board at that time. Maybe some of the fans did, I can't possibly comment, as I wasn't. But, in previous occasions, we had a genuine belief that the board had done what they could to stave off relegation, but had failed for footballing reasons, and there was a reasonable hope of recovery. Precisely what about our present situation would give you any comfort that we could return to this Division if relegated?
Card does not go on other forums and promote themselves - why? That's not true. I'm also on Glynne's mailing list, and have been for years, CARD has been promoted there; as it has on the bloggers linked to Dr Kish. CARD is also active on Twitter. As to the why. CARD may not be on every single forum, as an organised entity, but I would hope that there are supporters passing on the message. Planning and organising future actions is marginally more important than providing a running commentary.
You can't tell anyone how to spend their money. If you have 40m please buy us out. I tell people how to spend their money all the time, they just don't listen. I'm fairly sure that if any of us had enough money to invest we would, but we need RD to decide that he is willing to sell first.
If your want to support the club you have to be in Card - how so? Illogical and irrational. I must have missed this CARD missive. However, the damage being caused by the regime is so significant to the future well-being of the club that I cannot see how anyone (without significant incentive) could willingly support that regime.
How was Card formed? Is Card actually Cast! CARD is not CAST, though there is some overlap in membership - as for how it was formed, I'd recommend going back to look at the announcement of its foundation (I'm sure you must have read it, what with reading this forum regularly).
You take the club as you find it. If you don't like it don't go. Season ticket boycotts (really) the club know they same faces will go. And therein is the reason why protest, and the removal of the regime is essential. Because the next generation of fans will not want to go. As for the season ticket boycott, CARD are asking that people delay, to make RD's financial planning more difficult (if they can boycott that's fine); it's hardly the most difficult thing in the world.
We have been in worse positions. Really? When was there ever such an inflated footballing market (previously, you could have a poor ownership model and not wither quite as much on the vine as is the case today)? Have we ever before been a rich man's experiment, where he has decided that he, and he alone, can make a success of football in a way that no-one else has ever done? RD does not understand football, and is attempting to make football conform with his view, rather than adapt to deal with the reality of the football business.
There is a saying that "for evil to triumph, all that is needed is for good men to do nothing". In footballing terms, this regime is evil to our club, but thankfully at least some of the good men, women, children, and dogs (stuffed or otherwise), are not doing nothing.
^^^^ terrific interview with Varney .... BUT .. where were these interested investors when Duchatelet bought the club .. are they now hoping to get their hands on CAFC in a fire sale situation if R D decides enough is enough and runs for the hills ?
Maybe I'm a little cynical, but there is a rash of anti-Card posts at the moment. I suppose club employees don't have much to do at the moment.
Seems that way doesn't it. £20,000+ donated to the protest fund says to me that most are right behind CARD.
The suggestion that RD well stay longer out of stubborness is nonsense. He was forced out of Standard Liege by aggressive protests, we can force him out the same way. Furthermore, his stupid experiment must be costing him a fortune - not just the costs that CARD are causing him to incur, but the self-inflicted wounds from giving away good players and shelling out big money on rubbish, from driving out thousands of "customers" who chose to stop coming rather than stick around and protest. Will be even more expensive next year in an empty stadium with no tv or sponsorship money.
I think CARD have been terrifically well organised and are doing a great job of raising awareness of a problem.
But as I've said before; it isn't clear in its aims. Obviously we all understand the problems at Charlton, but the usual mantra spelt out is "We want our Charlton back" which means nothing to anyone. Why can't we have big signs up highlighting the actual flaws; something that points out that we sold Kermorgant, Morrison and Stephens and brought in creap Eurotrash to replace them, something that tells people that we hired a manager from Belgium's third tier, something that tells people that Roland will always hire unqualified managers from other clubs, something that explains how the club lies about managerial searches, only have someone set up.
I feel a real stumbling block is that people not concerned with Charlton don't know what the problems are. "We want our Charlton back" means absolutely nothing to them.
Supspect fake posts like this are the idea of the Crisis Management team employed by the regime to try and counter the overwhelming tide of anger their incompetence has generated.
Card's mandate was to ensure a 'swift resolution' to the problems with the board and fans. Or at least that what was on the bumf I read. So card got it wrong. Problems with fans? So giving the majority a entity to adopt to show their anger etc is failure then?
Replace Roland with who? Any businessman/group of people who can further us as a club - but most importantly admire and at least consider the history of Charlton Athletic FC and its fans (not customers!). Someone who is willing to listen to fans, and ask what THEY want and what THEY think could and should be done (not necessarily acting upon it but at the minimum considering the fans when deciding!
Replace Katrien with who. An experienced CEO in ANY business would be a start , let alone one who knows The business of football , or even someone who understands Charlton ands its fans! Someone who is willing to listen to EVERY party involved in Charlton and not just the person who pays him/her! Someone who is willing to learn from mistakes others have made but also mistakes he/she has made!
There are other fans at this club as well. There are fans that care just as much about CAFC than those that throw plastic balls about. They need convincing that an action group is not a wrecking crew. Of course there are , but when and where has CARD and its folk tried to wreck? It's about giving Charlton fans a voice AT CHARLTON! Of course there are fans out there who question CARD et all but surely those of them who go to home games have to question why at least 80% of fans are chanting "we want Roland out" and throwing stuff - so why aren't they?!
There are alternatives to fighting Agreed , but both CAST & CARD have both tried to have amenable and constructive communication with the club but that has not been successful- so fighting it/them is the last option and the one we have been forced to choose
The egos on this board demonstrate that reasoned debate is difficult. So anyone who disagrees with you has an ego? Maybe it's because the vocal posters in this forum/board have had enough of being walked over by an owner who is adamant the hard work put in by the fans and previous owners is nothing but rubbish and not going to effect him... Why is he so quick to rubbish the history of the club when the fans are what make up a bloody large proportion of it?
The club was relegated to the old third division before and none of this abuse was experienced against the board - why? Maybe some of the fans liked being mates with the board at that time. Should relegation occur this season , and let's not ignore the fact that it's still inevitable at the moment , it has been the most avoidable relegation in this clubs (and potentially in the English football league) history! Of course relegation to league one has occurred many times but that's been through mismanaging the finances or lack of said finances and just crap football! Today we are owned by a man who's wealth totals almost half a billion pounds- so does spending little or no money on experienced and talented footballers who have been properly scouted sound fair? Compare that to spending a few million of players like Naby Sarr who hasn't had a look in for a good few months , as well as spending £12 million to gain a premier league standard training ground/academy yet neglecting the first team! Maybe fans do like being 'mates' with board members but that's probably because they were listened to and appreciated (the fans that is). There was no animosity because directors and board members didn't brand its patrons as customers nor did they anger and upset them and even call their love for a club "weird" {...}
Card does not go on other forums and promote themselves - why? No idea why , you'll have to ask who ever posts as CARD on here , however I agree that they should promote themselves on ALL cafc forums!
You can't tell anyone how to spend their money. If you have 40m please buy us out. True, but you CAN ask! After all why should they buy a season ticket? Fans are not obliged to just be aside they are supporters
If your want to support the club you have to be in Card - how so? Illogical and irrational. That's never once been said! But again , surely those who don't support any protests whether from CARD or not , have to ask why a considerably amount of people are subscribing to CARDs ideas but they're not...!
How was Card formed? Is Card actually Cast! Why does it matter how it was formed? From information I've seen, it was Charlton fans saw many other Charlton fans disgusted with how the club is and was being run and decided to do something about it. Why is that a negative?
You take the club as you find it. If you don't like it don't go. Season ticket boycotts (really) the club know they same faces will go.
We have been in worse positions.
We 'find' ourself second from bottom of a league we worked hard to get back into , as well as having mass anger and upset at a ownership that doesn't even visit the valley and their 'customers' in person for a match! By saying "if you don't like it , don't go" - isn't that you telling people how to spend their money? Something you have painted as negative if CARD do it! If the club think they're going to get similar season ticket numbers to those when we were last in league one then they're seriously misguided! Says a lot that under 1,000 season tickets new and renewing have been sold so far!
^^^^ terrific interview with Varney .... BUT .. where were these interested investors when Duchatelet bought the club .. are they now hoping to get their hands on CAFC in a fire sale situation if R D decides enough is enough and runs for the hills ?
There was other interested parties at the time. The spivs wanted a quick sale.
^^^^ terrific interview with Varney .... BUT .. where were these interested investors when Duchatelet bought the club .. are they now hoping to get their hands on CAFC in a fire sale situation if R D decides enough is enough and runs for the hills ?
Varney's investors wanted to buy the club in August. It wasn't a fire-sale situation then. The fact it took Duchatelet until January to frame a substantive response was down to him and his hopeless chief exec's procrastination, no doubt encouraged by Richard Murray. As to where they were in 2013, who knows, but if they buy another club they won't be around after that either. It doesn't mean they aren't interested now. It's RD who has trashed the value over the last six months, no one else.
I'm not sure whether Belgiam is saying he's unhappy with Roland as owner, or unhappy with the way Card are going about trying to get him out. Which is it, Bun?
Belgiumbun - if CARD are getting it so wrong, please suggest an alternative...?
As I say to people at work, it's so easy to moan about what's in front of you but much harder to offer solutions...
From your post, I think you're with the rest of us, in that you're not happy with the way the club is being run (let's be honest how could anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence be happy with that) therefore, CARD are taking action, you have every right to disagree with their actions, however, rather than just pulling their actions apart, come up with an alternative...? What's your ideas and suggestions...? Come on Belgiumbun inspire us....????
I'm not sure whether Belgiam is saying he's unhappy with Roland as owner, or unhappy with the way Card are going about trying to get him out. Which is it, Bun?
CARD are hugely impressive. Compare them to Villa. The amount of global awareness CARD have generated compared to "former European Champions" Villa shows how good they are.
^^^^ terrific interview with Varney .... BUT .. where were these interested investors when Duchatelet bought the club .. are they now hoping to get their hands on CAFC in a fire sale situation if R D decides enough is enough and runs for the hills ?
Varney's investors wanted to buy the club in August. It wasn't a fire-sale situation then. The fact it took Duchatelet until January to frame a substantive response was down to him and his hopeless chief exec's procrastination, no doubt encouraged by Richard Murray. As to where they were in 2013, who knows, but if they buy another club they won't be around after that either. It doesn't mean they aren't interested now. It's RD who has trashed the value over the last six months, no one else.
I think the OP is looking for attention but I do appreciate two points that are probably relevant. Some of the fans that sit near me are fed up with the protests and believe that they are being organised by individuals have have a hidden agenda. One of these agenda's mentioned is jobs at the club by the new owners if they ensure a good price on purchase.
It doesn't matter if this is true or not, like many things, it only has to be believed.
The other point, that is related, is that if CARD are seen to be aiming to force the owner to sell at a significant loss it seems very unsavoury. If Roland doesn't want to sell and the potential new owners are determined to shaft him (and I'm not suggesting that they are and I have reason to believe this is not the case) it does leave CARD open to a lot of criticism.
If your neighbour offered to buy your house for less than it's value and then made your like unbearable until you sold it to him I'm sure we would find that unacceptable.
As I say I'm not suggesting that CARD are doing this and I'm, certainly, not looking for attention or an argument, I'm just pointing out that there is not 100% support for CARD and I'm not sure if they are still winning the PR battle with the club.
^^^^ terrific interview with Varney .... BUT .. where were these interested investors when Duchatelet bought the club .. are they now hoping to get their hands on CAFC in a fire sale situation if R D decides enough is enough and runs for the hills ?
Varney's investors wanted to buy the club in August. It wasn't a fire-sale situation then. The fact it took Duchatelet until January to frame a substantive response was down to him and his hopeless chief exec's procrastination, no doubt encouraged by Richard Murray. As to where they were in 2013, who knows, but if they buy another club they won't be around after that either. It doesn't mean they aren't interested now. It's RD who has trashed the value over the last six months, no one else.
I think the OP is looking for attention but I do appreciate two points that are probably relevant. Some of the fans that sit near me are fed up with the protests and believe that they are being organised by individuals have have a hidden agenda. One of these agenda's mentioned is jobs at the club by the new owners if they ensure a good price on purchase.
It doesn't matter if this is true or not, like many things, it only has to be believed.
The other point, that is related, is that if CARD are seen to be aiming to force the owner to sell at a significant loss it seems very unsavoury. If Roland doesn't want to sell and the potential new owners are determined to shaft him (and I'm not suggesting that they are and I have reason to believe this is not the case) it does leave CARD open to a lot of criticism.
If your neighbour offered to buy your house for less than it's value and then made your like unbearable until you sold it to him I'm sure we would find that unacceptable.
As I say I'm not suggesting that CARD are doing this and I'm, certainly, not looking for attention or an argument, I'm just pointing out that there is not 100% support for CARD and I'm not sure if they are still winning the PR battle with the club.
Poor analogy to be honest. I don't see any relevance to our situation at all.
Go on, tell us. And please don't suggest trying to talk to the owner or Katrien, because people have been trying and failing to do that since they took over. KM wears her ignorance of Charlton's history as a badge of pride. They are determined to refuse any sensible approach from anyone who knows anything about the club. So, what's the alternative to fighting?
You say that you take the club as you find it. If you don't like it don't go.
Is that not happening now? 15,000 in the crowd yesterday, more like 9,000. People are staying away and that will increase into next season when we are in the third tier of English football.
There are no ego's on show here, just passionate people who can clearly see that this club is going to suffer the most ridiculous relegation in the club's history all down to Duchaletet, Meire and Murray.
Comments
How is this relevant when they are visible every home game talking to the fans on the ground. So are you saying that unless someone has the money to buy Duchatelet out, they should keep their opinions to themselves? Ridiculous! There is no in or out of CARD, it's not a membership club. You come here and criticise CARD, yet you have no idea of their origins, and seemingly no clue of their objectives either. Maybe you should educate yourself on some important facts before making these types of posts.
No they are not CAST, they are CARD, they are a coalition (yes the clue is in the title) of a number of supporters groups and protest groups. Many of the same faces will NOT go. I was one of the same faces for the best part of 20 years and I'm not going. There are countless others in the same position.
Clearly we have been in worse positions, but it was THE FANS that got us out of that position.
I welcome what is largely an opinion piece, what you say will sharpen the thinking of those who disagree with you, and I count myself as one of them.
A couple of pieces of regime perception you neglect to mention is that it is simply a message board thing, and if results pick up it will all go away.
You have mentioned Roland's problem about engaging with fans, so maybe on that basis alone we have the protests because Roland won't engage.
In addition we have what fans can see with their own eyes, failure in all quarters.
What makes the fans incredulous is that in true Orwellian double-speak style we are basically told failure is success, like we were told how successful the wondrous parade of managers we have had has been.
If the regime thinks their work is so good in the face of demonstrable failure, then they will also think the efforts of CARD are failures and not what they demonstrably are, successes.
Your post indicates a line of reasoning that says nothing can be done to make things any better, and you indicate the present reality as evidence. The efforts by CARD and others is to alter and shift the present reality, that may lead to Roland reviewing his position.
In this regard you refer to the unlikeliness of change and one reason you give is that 'Katrien has bigger balls than the fans'.
Katrien may well be doing a 'badge of honour/tough it out' marathon, but whilst nurturing those big cojones (see what I did there?), her straightforward incompetence is degrading the club far more than any fan action.
Katrien may be charming, may be gutsy, may be educated to a pretty high level, may have balls bigger than a whale's, but she is no good at running a football club for all of those attributes.
It could be that another reason CARD is happening is because the club is simply run so badly, and there are extra delicacies added where are fans are actively alienated which is nothing to do with CARD at all.
This active alienation runs from the micro, like hindering the access to the some of the less mobile supporters; to the macro like irritating 98% of supporters regarding the big screen this season.
When the club is so badly run it is not a suprise there is a reaction, and when the club has no footballing ambition there is also no suprise there is a reaction.
If that was the case we'd still find it in SE25 !!
The suggestion that RD well stay longer out of stubborness is nonsense. He was forced out of Standard Liege by aggressive protests, we can force him out the same way. Furthermore, his stupid experiment must be costing him a fortune - not just the costs that CARD are causing him to incur, but the self-inflicted wounds from giving away good players and shelling out big money on rubbish, from driving out thousands of "customers" who chose to stop coming rather than stick around and protest. Will be even more expensive next year in an empty stadium with no tv or sponsorship money.
But as I've said before; it isn't clear in its aims. Obviously we all understand the problems at Charlton, but the usual mantra spelt out is "We want our Charlton back" which means nothing to anyone. Why can't we have big signs up highlighting the actual flaws; something that points out that we sold Kermorgant, Morrison and Stephens and brought in creap Eurotrash to replace them, something that tells people that we hired a manager from Belgium's third tier, something that tells people that Roland will always hire unqualified managers from other clubs, something that explains how the club lies about managerial searches, only have someone set up.
I feel a real stumbling block is that people not concerned with Charlton don't know what the problems are. "We want our Charlton back" means absolutely nothing to them.
So, which of the 'us' are you?
Is 40m the price you are now looking for?
Either that or this is Nigel W.
I'm all for debates but your just not very good at expressing a point of view to where people might think....oh....OK.
You come across as desperate and you don't know what your talking about.
As I say to people at work, it's so easy to moan about what's in front of you but much harder to offer solutions...
From your post, I think you're with the rest of us, in that you're not happy with the way the club is being run (let's be honest how could anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence be happy with that) therefore, CARD are taking action, you have every right to disagree with their actions, however, rather than just pulling their actions apart, come up with an alternative...? What's your ideas and suggestions...? Come on Belgiumbun inspire us....????
It doesn't matter if this is true or not, like many things, it only has to be believed.
The other point, that is related, is that if CARD are seen to be aiming to force the owner to sell at a significant loss it seems very unsavoury. If Roland doesn't want to sell and the potential new owners are determined to shaft him (and I'm not suggesting that they are and I have reason to believe this is not the case) it does leave CARD open to a lot of criticism.
If your neighbour offered to buy your house for less than it's value and then made your like unbearable until you sold it to him I'm sure we would find that unacceptable.
As I say I'm not suggesting that CARD are doing this and I'm, certainly, not looking for attention or an argument, I'm just pointing out that there is not 100% support for CARD and I'm not sure if they are still winning the PR battle with the club.
You can't make people see if they refuse to open their eyes.
Is that not happening now? 15,000 in the crowd yesterday, more like 9,000. People are staying away and that will increase into next season when we are in the third tier of English football.
There are no ego's on show here, just passionate people who can clearly see that this club is going to suffer the most ridiculous relegation in the club's history all down to Duchaletet, Meire and Murray.