VOTV - New takeover news

Valley27000

I hope RD sells.

LuckyReds

All_Thaid_Up said:

Sounds like Murray has been blocking PV's attempted talks so he could keep himself involved with this other group.

All makes a bit more sense.

Which is thoroughly depressing in itself; as that suggests that another takeover may not be the "best one" for the club - but the best one for the individuals (i.e Murray) involved.

On the other hand, this is yet another answer to those who question how we would find a new buyer. (Although those posters have mysteriously disappeared again)

GretnaGreenAddick

Off_it said:

GretnaGreenAddick said:

So we now have two glimmers of light at the end of this Belgian tunnel, come on Roland make it happen lets bring this horrible business to an end before the summer.

And then we can all get our season tickets!

I will be one of the first on the phone, this season or next season was meant to be when I was able to get my first season ticket since 2006 now I am much more settled down south again.

RedChaser

Valley27000 said:

I hope RD sells.

That's the spirit, you and 15,000 of us .

The Red Robin

All_Thaid_Up said:

Sounds like Murray has been blocking PV's attempted talks so he could keep himself involved with this other group.

All makes a bit more sense.

All about his ego. If he actually cared we wouldn't be in this mess.

seth plum

if Roland is asking silly money then he intends to stay, but this doesn't look like that scenario.

I heard a completely unsubstantiated but possibly true story regarding the training ground which might shed light.

Apparently work would not have been completed in time for us to get the CAT status we wanted, there would be an overrun of a month or two, so in that scenario work simply stopped. make of that what you will.

Anyway if the principle of Roland not selling, which has been in a lot of emails to fans, has now changed, then it is about what kind of deal is done by somebody by what time. Could be soon, or could be years.

If you remember, Roland had a relegation clause in his take over, so the concept of relegation and it's financial significance was known to him.

So the price? Well he bought a Championship club, and would now sell a third division club, that would reasonably need to be reflected, but he has covered losses and made deep cuts for two seasons also, but but but he had chucked money away on appalling footballing decisions which is down to him so those losses (or debt to Staprix) can be argued to be his liability and not taken on by purchasers.

What it all seems to add up to to me is that it is about skilled negotiations and numbers, and not about the continuation of Roland.s experiment. We have passed the end of the beginning, but I would be very cautious to suggest we are anywhere near the beginning of the end, but the direction of travel is hopeful.

As a result of all this, when it eventually gets sorted, I hope there will be enough left in the CARD fund to get the upbeats over the £20k mark.

Then again I might be desperately grasping at straws.

GretnaGreenAddick

As much as I have no respect for Murray anymore and would prefer him gone, if he has to keep his seat at the table to get a regular owner in then I am happy enough, anything to get RD out at this point.

ken_shabby

Losing sight of Murray was an add on I was hoping for from the sale. Great to lose sight of RD and KM if it comes off, but Richard Murray is totally compromised- he can do one too.

lancashire lad

I can't understand if RD contemplates selling then why wouldn't he talk to all interested parties I.e. Elliott, Varney and whoever else.
I suppose if KM with RM's whispers then bad mouths Varney as just hot air then it would make sense

Macronate

i want to be a businessman.

pay £14m for a football club, pretend you've got a vision, put the experiment in place, release best players part of which then goes to pay for a new playing surface, pretend you're going to develop youth when it's nothing more than a farm system, appoint lap dogs in all senior positions, get rid of any staff who may have an inkling of what the club is all about or have any knowledge of it, make consistently poor management decisions,alienate the customers, allow gimmicks to be introduced more akin to an NBA game, make an incoherent rant against all other staff advice and through it all, effectively allow a team to be relegated through crass ignorance and arrogance.

and then demand £38m.

RedChaser

lancashire lad said:

I can't understand if RD contemplates selling then why wouldn't he talk to all interested parties I.e. Elliott, Varney and whoever else.
I suppose if KM with RM's whispers then bad mouths Varney as just hot air then it would make sense

Could have been a ploy to attract more than one potential buyer so as to play them off against one another.

Valley11

How concrete is this second offer? Or just a publicity stunt for the guy spearheading it?

Tunwellsaddick

I'll believe it when it's on the OS. Right Henry?

Henry Irving

Tunwellsaddick said:

I'll believe it when it's on the OS. Right Henry?

Dead right.

Long long road between interest and a done deal.

Mendonca In Asdas

Wasn't PE rumoured to be heading up a consortium before the Jimenez/ slater takeover, I just wonder if this is a smoke screen, story breaking on season ticket renewal day to appease the fans, man I'm sceptical!

Athletico Charlton

if he wants £38M he is not serious about selling.

the club is worth nothing, what assets it has will be dwarfed by cashflow costs over the next few years. If he got a £1 for us and wrote off all his debt he would have done well in my book.

ricky_otto

Come on Ni........ Nah let's not go there.

Let's hope there is some substance in it.

killerandflash

Athletico Charlton said:

if he wants £38M he is not serious about selling.

the club is worth nothing, what assets it has will be dwarfed by cashflow costs over the next few years. If he got a £1 for us and wrote off all his debt he would have done well in my book.

Understandably, he wants as much for the club as he can get, with his lack of emotional involvement in it. The £38m is clearly a bargaining opener, hopefully a decent buyer can be found that is prepared to give him the real number that he expects

Off_it

It's amazing how many people suddenly think they are in the know about how much was paid for the club, how much has been invested and what the sale price is.

Cos Roland's completely transparent like that, isn't he?

SDAddick

Remember these deals are simply done on current assets, they're also done on potential. Roland will sell this as a medium sized club on year away from the second tier who own land in a growing part of London that is continuously being developed. The club own the ground, a training ground, and have a very sound academy which has produced 10m+ in player sales in the last five years.

I know we have a jaded view of the club which is part colored by mis-management, in part colored by impending relegation, and in part colored by our day-to-day experiences. From a potential buyer's perspective, the club should be pretty appealing. It's a real damning indictment of how poorly Roland has done since taking over. He has squandered a lot of potential.

As for those who say he's only in it for the money, I continue to disagree. I'm sure he won't want to make a loss, or a substantial loss on Charlton, but were he in it for the money everything not tied down would have been sold in January and there are various other commercial avenues he could have pursued (some of this is down to ineptitude of course)--raising ticket prices comes to mind. I think he had a "vision" for this club and how it would run surrounding a particular attraction of "customers" who may or may not exist and the full implementation of FFP, and he had/has no back-up plan should either come up short, let alone fail.

Lastly, while getting RD out is obviously a good step, there is an element of Russian roulette when it comes to new owners. For every Leicester there is a Notts County, various Portsmouth owners, Carson Yueng, Randy Lerner circa the last five years, etc. I find the thought of having Paul Elliot involved in our club, knowing what he said to RR, incredibly repulsive. But, whenever RD leaves, short of a Trust/fan ownership model, we will be rolling the dice.

newyorkaddick

At 30 Jun 2015, the club owed Staprix £38m and that has probably increased to £45m or so after this season's losses.

The equity is clearly worthless, especially with relegation virtually assured - any debate about the value of the club concerns how much of the Staprix debt the new owners are willing to repay.

Clearly no rational buyer will make Staprix whole so the rest is a function of negotiation.

ElfsborgAddick

SDAddick said:

Remember these deals are simply done on current assets, they're also done on potential. Roland will sell this as a medium sized club on year away from the second tier who own land in a growing part of London that is continuously being developed. The club own the ground, a training ground, and have a very sound academy which has produced 10m+ in player sales in the last five years.

I know we have a jaded view of the club which is part colored by mis-management, in part colored by impending relegation, and in part colored by our day-to-day experiences. From a potential buyer's perspective, the club should be pretty appealing. It's a real damning indictment of how poorly Roland has done since taking over. He has squandered a lot of potential.

As for those who say he's only in it for the money, I continue to disagree. I'm sure he won't want to make a loss, or a substantial loss on Charlton, but were he in it for the money everything not tied down would have been sold in January and there are various other commercial avenues he could have pursued (some of this is down to ineptitude of course)--raising ticket prices comes to mind. I think he had a "vision" for this club and how it would run surrounding a particular attraction of "customers" who may or may not exist and the full implementation of FFP, and he had/has no back-up plan should either come up short, let alone fail.

Lastly, while getting RD out is obviously a good step, there is an element of Russian roulette when it comes to new owners. For every Leicester there is a Notts County, various Portsmouth owners, Carson Yueng, Randy Lerner circa the last five years, etc. I find the thought of having Paul Elliot involved in our club, knowing what he said to RR, incredibly repulsive. But, whenever RD leaves, short of a Trust/fan ownership model, we will be rolling the dice.

Elliott is being touted as solely the front man.

Whatever happened with Rufus was unfortunate, Elliott is a Charlton man and I would think he would move us in the right direction.

All of today is pure speculation though.

killerandflash

ElfsborgAddick said:

SDAddick said:

Remember these deals are simply done on current assets, they're also done on potential. Roland will sell this as a medium sized club on year away from the second tier who own land in a growing part of London that is continuously being developed. The club own the ground, a training ground, and have a very sound academy which has produced 10m+ in player sales in the last five years.

I know we have a jaded view of the club which is part colored by mis-management, in part colored by impending relegation, and in part colored by our day-to-day experiences. From a potential buyer's perspective, the club should be pretty appealing. It's a real damning indictment of how poorly Roland has done since taking over. He has squandered a lot of potential.

As for those who say he's only in it for the money, I continue to disagree. I'm sure he won't want to make a loss, or a substantial loss on Charlton, but were he in it for the money everything not tied down would have been sold in January and there are various other commercial avenues he could have pursued (some of this is down to ineptitude of course)--raising ticket prices comes to mind. I think he had a "vision" for this club and how it would run surrounding a particular attraction of "customers" who may or may not exist and the full implementation of FFP, and he had/has no back-up plan should either come up short, let alone fail.

Lastly, while getting RD out is obviously a good step, there is an element of Russian roulette when it comes to new owners. For every Leicester there is a Notts County, various Portsmouth owners, Carson Yueng, Randy Lerner circa the last five years, etc. I find the thought of having Paul Elliot involved in our club, knowing what he said to RR, incredibly repulsive. But, whenever RD leaves, short of a Trust/fan ownership model, we will be rolling the dice.

Elliott is being touted as solely the front man.

Whatever happened with Rufus was unfortunate, Elliott is a Charlton man and I would think he would move us in the right direction.

All of today is pure speculation though.

What Rufus did with all that money was far worse than just unfortunate...

i_b_b_o_r_g

killerandflash said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

SDAddick said:

Remember these deals are simply done on current assets, they're also done on potential. Roland will sell this as a medium sized club on year away from the second tier who own land in a growing part of London that is continuously being developed. The club own the ground, a training ground, and have a very sound academy which has produced 10m+ in player sales in the last five years.

I know we have a jaded view of the club which is part colored by mis-management, in part colored by impending relegation, and in part colored by our day-to-day experiences. From a potential buyer's perspective, the club should be pretty appealing. It's a real damning indictment of how poorly Roland has done since taking over. He has squandered a lot of potential.

As for those who say he's only in it for the money, I continue to disagree. I'm sure he won't want to make a loss, or a substantial loss on Charlton, but were he in it for the money everything not tied down would have been sold in January and there are various other commercial avenues he could have pursued (some of this is down to ineptitude of course)--raising ticket prices comes to mind. I think he had a "vision" for this club and how it would run surrounding a particular attraction of "customers" who may or may not exist and the full implementation of FFP, and he had/has no back-up plan should either come up short, let alone fail.

Lastly, while getting RD out is obviously a good step, there is an element of Russian roulette when it comes to new owners. For every Leicester there is a Notts County, various Portsmouth owners, Carson Yueng, Randy Lerner circa the last five years, etc. I find the thought of having Paul Elliot involved in our club, knowing what he said to RR, incredibly repulsive. But, whenever RD leaves, short of a Trust/fan ownership model, we will be rolling the dice.

Elliott is being touted as solely the front man.

Whatever happened with Rufus was unfortunate, Elliott is a Charlton man and I would think he would move us in the right direction.

All of today is pure speculation though.

What Rufus did with all that money was far worse than just unfortunate...

Very unfortunate

Vincenzo

If Elliot was taken in by Rufus' scheme, I would worry about his ability to run a business the size of Charlton Athletic. While Rufus was in the wrong, surely Elliot should have had enough nous to know that when something looks too good to be true, it is.

EastTerrace

Let's face it anyone who owns a football club or is part of it is a chancer. Either owned by the very rich or the mad, some a lot madder than others.

Swisdom

I met Paul 4 years ago when I spent a day with him at the Olympic village.
Loved the club and was gushing in his praise for it

I'm sure he's as hurt as us with the current regime and hope it's true.

BUT

I know he's done well in business but wouldn't think he'd done THAT well.

Time will tell I guess

Davo55

RedChaser said:

lancashire lad said:

I can't understand if RD contemplates selling then why wouldn't he talk to all interested parties I.e. Elliott, Varney and whoever else.
I suppose if KM with RM's whispers then bad mouths Varney as just hot air then it would make sense

Could have been a ploy to attract more than one potential buyer so as to play them off against one another.

I suspect that is exactly the ploy. No-one wants to go into a negotiation with "the only game in town". Get some nibbles and then sit down with the serious players (i.e. Varney's group).

SDAddick

Committing a ponzi scheme is obviously very wrong. Falling for a ponzi scheme isn't great, but I also think it's easy to victim blame as we don't know what was said/promised/etc. Calling a black person the N word under any circumstance is not okay and to me belies a deeper lack of moral fibre (this is something that may be more significant to me as an American given the deep history around that term).

As @ElfsborgAddick says, it's all preliminary at this point.

ShootersHillGuru

Swisdom said:

I met Paul 4 years ago when I spent a day with him at the Olympic village.
Loved the club and was gushing in his praise for it

I'm sure he's as hurt as us with the current regime and hope it's true.

BUT

I know he's done well in business but wouldn't think he'd done THAT well.

Time will tell I guess

Met him a couple of times and yes I agree he must be hurting as much as any of us at our current situation. He would be a good front man to lead a consortium. Knows and loves Charlton and wants what is best for the club. What he doesn't have is anywhere near that sort of money. I would like to know who he is fronting for.