This surely must be the worst ST sales figure since the return to The Valley. If not, it must be mighty close.
Airman will undoubtedly know the exact figures, but I believe we had about 6,500 season ticket holders at the start of the 97/98 promotion season. We had gradually been increasing the numbers since the return to The Valley. This must be the lowest for two decades. However, I think the main thing it highlights is how far we've fallen since Roland arrived. A lot of our actual gates (as opposed to the stated attendances) will be around half or less what they were when Roland arrived - imagine buying a business and then shrinking it by 50% in 2 and a half years! Imagine seeing your business shrink by 50% in 2 and a half years but not sacking the person responsible for the day-to-day running of the business! Absolutely unbelievable!
Not only shrinking the business, and stripping the assets, but continuing in the expectation that you can sell for three times what you paid for it if reports are to be believed.
"Tickets will be posted out block-by-block beginning with those situated in East Stand Block A, moving anti-clockwise towards the Covered End, and the club anticipate all to be delivered by the end of July"
We've sold so many that they could've easily said 'by the end of this week'.
The ticket office may well be otherwise too busy. If we've sold 5,500 then there are likely to be waiverers and late purchasers that will decide it's now time to buy a ST. Fans should pick which winnable battles they want to fight and the ST boycott was always going to be one that we ahould have collectively avoided because it's self-defeating. Committed Charlton fans will always want to go to watch the team whenever they can, it's what we do, it's what we've always done. At least we now know there is going to be at least 5,500 of us in the ground on a match day to support the team and voice our displeasure with the regime.
Even with a few last minute purchases, the 5,400 + figure is a significant drop. The likely remaining sale of quality in the squad is not going to help either. Nearly 2 weeks to the start of the season and the squad is still thread bare and looking light, as per the Duchatelet & Meire normal practise. Its not going to help sales.
To make a division and claim the title of committed Charlton supporter as one's that have renewed is just not right. So a supporter who has had a season ticket for many years, chosen not to renew because of being sick of the Duchatelet regime can't claim the title any more ? There's some great posts above about Charlton supporters not dividing themselves out between those who have chosen not to renew and those that didn't. Everyone has legitimate reasons that need to be respected. It is important for Charlton Athletic supporters to stay together, so that Duchatelet can sell up and take one of those offers that he keeps getting to sell the club.
Very true.
@letthegoodtimesroll you have repeatedly made this unfair accusation and then withdrawn it only to yet again repeat it on another thread. It is, and had been for a while, very tedious.
Henry, I'm not saying that those that haven't bought a ST or won't be going are not committed fans. Fair play to anybody that can stay away but I'm just being realistic. For many of us, whatever shit has come the club's way over the years, I know we still keep going, no matter what. Staying away hurts us more than RD and KM because we are emotionally connected to the club, they're not.
Yet again you withdraw the remark after making it. As I said, tedious.
I'm consistent in my personal view that the call for a ST boycott was misjudged. At 5,500 and counting (because it probably will start to go up) then it's an easy PR victory for KM and she can make the claim that losing some fans was inevitable because we were relegated and everybody else outside of Charlton will believe her. If we hadn't been relegated then the fall off in ST sales would have made people sit up and take notice. CARD isn't going to win a financial pissing contest with RD, it's all going to be about selective PR.
I didn't think it was a "call for a boycott" as such, I thought CARD were asking fans, if they were to renew, that they defer in doing so. That's what I've done (waited until after the clubs FY ended) and will now renew at some point in the near future.
This surely must be the worst ST sales figure since the return to The Valley. If not, it must be mighty close.
Airman will undoubtedly know the exact figures, but I believe we had about 6,500 season ticket holders at the start of the 97/98 promotion season. We had gradually been increasing the numbers since the return to The Valley. This must be the lowest for two decades. However, I think the main thing it highlights is how far we've fallen since Roland arrived. A lot of our actual gates (as opposed to the stated attendances) will be around half or less what they were when Roland arrived - imagine buying a business and then shrinking it by 50% in 2 and a half years! Imagine seeing your business shrink by 50% in 2 and a half years but not sacking the person responsible for the day-to-day running of the business! Absolutely unbelievable!
Had a quick look at 1995/96, for which I happen to have the official breakdowns. At the time of the final game of the season against Wolves, there were 4,428 season tickets.
So we have 2500/3000 sitting in the Lower North with 3000 spread over the other stands, the ground is going to look pretty empty, with those numbers KM will let Millwall have the whole of the east stand in order to make some money.
So we have 2500/3000 sitting in the Lower North with 3000 spread over the other stands, the ground is going to look pretty empty, with those numbers KM will let Millwall have the whole of the east stand in order to make some money.
"Tickets will be posted out block-by-block beginning with those situated in East Stand Block A, moving anti-clockwise towards the Covered End, and the club anticipate all to be delivered by the end of July"
We've sold so many that they could've easily said 'by the end of this week'.
The ticket office may well be otherwise too busy. If we've sold 5,500 then there are likely to be waiverers and late purchasers that will decide it's now time to buy a ST. Fans should pick which winnable battles they want to fight and the ST boycott was always going to be one that we ahould have collectively avoided because it's self-defeating. Committed Charlton fans will always want to go to watch the team whenever they can, it's what we do, it's what we've always done. At least we now know there is going to be at least 5,500 of us in the ground on a match day to support the team and voice our displeasure with the regime.
Even with a few last minute purchases, the 5,400 + figure is a significant drop. The likely remaining sale of quality in the squad is not going to help either. Nearly 2 weeks to the start of the season and the squad is still thread bare and looking light, as per the Duchatelet & Meire normal practise. Its not going to help sales.
To make a division and claim the title of committed Charlton supporter as one's that have renewed is just not right. So a supporter who has had a season ticket for many years, chosen not to renew because of being sick of the Duchatelet regime can't claim the title any more ? There's some great posts above about Charlton supporters not dividing themselves out between those who have chosen not to renew and those that didn't. Everyone has legitimate reasons that need to be respected. It is important for Charlton Athletic supporters to stay together, so that Duchatelet can sell up and take one of those offers that he keeps getting to sell the club.
Very true.
@letthegoodtimesroll you have repeatedly made this unfair accusation and then withdrawn it only to yet again repeat it on another thread. It is, and had been for a while, very tedious.
Henry, I'm not saying that those that haven't bought a ST or won't be going are not committed fans. Fair play to anybody that can stay away but I'm just being realistic. For many of us, whatever shit has come the club's way over the years, I know we still keep going, no matter what. Staying away hurts us more than RD and KM because we are emotionally connected to the club, they're not.
Yet again you withdraw the remark after making it. As I said, tedious.
I'm consistent in my personal view that the call for a ST boycott was misjudged. At 5,500 and counting (because it probably will start to go up) then it's an easy PR victory for KM and she can make the claim that losing some fans was inevitable because we were relegated and everybody else outside of Charlton will believe her. If we hadn't been relegated then the fall off in ST sales would have made people sit up and take notice. CARD isn't going to win a financial pissing contest with RD, it's all going to be about selective PR.
You are entitled to your opinion @letthegoodtimesroll. I think you are utterly mistaken though.
If the season tickets had held up, which they haven't and no amount of wishful thinking is going to make that season ticket higher that it is, then Meire would have said that Charlton supporters support the Duchatelet way of doing things and there is no reason to change method. Meire may make up some utter rubbish, risible spin or outright lie as per usual about the season ticket holders. In terms of the football world, she is without creadability and I don't think we have to worry too much about that. The spectacularly inept failure at Charlton is clear for all to see. This is the main driver for falling attendances.
Having a business failing so spectacularly as his is doing is going to cost him money. This is ultimately what Duchatelet cares about. This is why he will be selling the club. CARD and protesting Charlton supporters are helping him to make that inevitable decision.
"Tickets will be posted out block-by-block beginning with those situated in East Stand Block A, moving anti-clockwise towards the Covered End, and the club anticipate all to be delivered by the end of July"
We've sold so many that they could've easily said 'by the end of this week'.
The ticket office may well be otherwise too busy. If we've sold 5,500 then there are likely to be waiverers and late purchasers that will decide it's now time to buy a ST. Fans should pick which winnable battles they want to fight and the ST boycott was always going to be one that we ahould have collectively avoided because it's self-defeating. Committed Charlton fans will always want to go to watch the team whenever they can, it's what we do, it's what we've always done. At least we now know there is going to be at least 5,500 of us in the ground on a match day to support the team and voice our displeasure with the regime.
Even with a few last minute purchases, the 5,400 + figure is a significant drop. The likely remaining sale of quality in the squad is not going to help either. Nearly 2 weeks to the start of the season and the squad is still thread bare and looking light, as per the Duchatelet & Meire normal practise. Its not going to help sales.
To make a division and claim the title of committed Charlton supporter as one's that have renewed is just not right. So a supporter who has had a season ticket for many years, chosen not to renew because of being sick of the Duchatelet regime can't claim the title any more ? There's some great posts above about Charlton supporters not dividing themselves out between those who have chosen not to renew and those that didn't. Everyone has legitimate reasons that need to be respected. It is important for Charlton Athletic supporters to stay together, so that Duchatelet can sell up and take one of those offers that he keeps getting to sell the club.
Very true.
@letthegoodtimesroll you have repeatedly made this unfair accusation and then withdrawn it only to yet again repeat it on another thread. It is, and had been for a while, very tedious.
Henry, I'm not saying that those that haven't bought a ST or won't be going are not committed fans. Fair play to anybody that can stay away but I'm just being realistic. For many of us, whatever shit has come the club's way over the years, I know we still keep going, no matter what. Staying away hurts us more than RD and KM because we are emotionally connected to the club, they're not.
Yet again you withdraw the remark after making it. As I said, tedious.
I'm consistent in my personal view that the call for a ST boycott was misjudged. At 5,500 and counting (because it probably will start to go up) then it's an easy PR victory for KM and she can make the claim that losing some fans was inevitable because we were relegated and everybody else outside of Charlton will believe her. If we hadn't been relegated then the fall off in ST sales would have made people sit up and take notice. CARD isn't going to win a financial pissing contest with RD, it's all going to be about selective PR.
I don't think "everybody else outside of Charlton" will give a toss, personally. The facts are that they are a long way behind the sales of the three previous seasons in L1 and they are not making that up in the next three weeks. They have halved the season ticket revenue on last season. You can argue about the extent to which the boycott is a success, but to call that "an easy PR victory for KM" is laughable.
Not only shrinking the business, and stripping the assets, but continuing in the expectation that you can sell for three times what you paid for it if reports are to be believed.
Tony Jimensz tried to do the same but had to bring the price down. I suspect that Duchatelet will have to do the same. The longer Duchatelet holds off a sale, the higher the losses with less chance of selling playing assets to cover those losses. The only direction of travel under the Duchatelet model is downwards. Duchatelet may be stubborn and obdurate but in the end, he will want to off load the business. What is the point ? A sale by Christmas 16 / New Year 17.
How much are they expecting the club is worth? Wolves have just gone for £45m. A club that owns it's own stadium and recently redeveloped training ground with a strong academy status, albeit not yet with the productive conveyor belt we've had as yet.
Obviously a club in the Midlands will be cheaper than if it was London based, even with the same attributes.
Will be a shame if we get lower gates than Millwall next season
we won't
The average attendances between the two clubs will not be too far apart this season. First time in years. Last time we were both in league one (2009) we averaged crowds of 17 thousand and they were below 10 thousand
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Sorry I actually meant Millwall's momentum of a decent season last year. I agree that any positivity from Slade, Novak, Ajose and Holmes now needs re-igniting following the recent departures.
"Tickets will be posted out block-by-block beginning with those situated in East Stand Block A, moving anti-clockwise towards the Covered End, and the club anticipate all to be delivered by the end of July"
We've sold so many that they could've easily said 'by the end of this week'.
The ticket office may well be otherwise too busy. If we've sold 5,500 then there are likely to be waiverers and late purchasers that will decide it's now time to buy a ST. Fans should pick which winnable battles they want to fight and the ST boycott was always going to be one that we ahould have collectively avoided because it's self-defeating. Committed Charlton fans will always want to go to watch the team whenever they can, it's what we do, it's what we've always done. At least we now know there is going to be at least 5,500 of us in the ground on a match day to support the team and voice our displeasure with the regime.
Even with a few last minute purchases, the 5,400 + figure is a significant drop. The likely remaining sale of quality in the squad is not going to help either. Nearly 2 weeks to the start of the season and the squad is still thread bare and looking light, as per the Duchatelet & Meire normal practise. Its not going to help sales.
To make a division and claim the title of committed Charlton supporter as one's that have renewed is just not right. So a supporter who has had a season ticket for many years, chosen not to renew because of being sick of the Duchatelet regime can't claim the title any more ? There's some great posts above about Charlton supporters not dividing themselves out between those who have chosen not to renew and those that didn't. Everyone has legitimate reasons that need to be respected. It is important for Charlton Athletic supporters to stay together, so that Duchatelet can sell up and take one of those offers that he keeps getting to sell the club.
Very true.
@letthegoodtimesroll you have repeatedly made this unfair accusation and then withdrawn it only to yet again repeat it on another thread. It is, and had been for a while, very tedious.
Henry, I'm not saying that those that haven't bought a ST or won't be going are not committed fans. Fair play to anybody that can stay away but I'm just being realistic. For many of us, whatever shit has come the club's way over the years, I know we still keep going, no matter what. Staying away hurts us more than RD and KM because we are emotionally connected to the club, they're not.
Yet again you withdraw the remark after making it. As I said, tedious.
I'm consistent in my personal view that the call for a ST boycott was misjudged. At 5,500 and counting (because it probably will start to go up) then it's an easy PR victory for KM and she can make the claim that losing some fans was inevitable because we were relegated and everybody else outside of Charlton will believe her. If we hadn't been relegated then the fall off in ST sales would have made people sit up and take notice. CARD isn't going to win a financial pissing contest with RD, it's all going to be about selective PR.
Turn it in mate, 5500 is an absolutely terrible figure for this club and you know it. And nothing that KM does will ever be a PR victory because she is so incompetent.
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Aren't they what fans have also been asking for ?
A British manager that knows the game and the division
Players that look like they will give it a good go rather than looking like they want to go
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Sorry I actually meant Millwall's momentum of a decent season last year. I agree that any positivity from Slade, Novak, Ajose and Holmes now needs re-igniting following the recent departures.
No need to apologise it was crossed wires, depends on early season form of course but I don't see the Spanners crowds being to dissimilar to ours this season especially if they get an offer for Gregory they can't refuse.
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Aren't they what fans have also been asking for ?
A British manager that knows the game and the division
Players that look like they will give it a good go rather than looking like they want to go
I think that the point is that the momentum has completely dried up and threatens to go into reverse with the current state of the squad and further likely departures.
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Aren't they what fans have also been asking for ?
A British manager that knows the game and the division
Players that look like they will give it a good go rather than looking like they want to go
My hope is they will bring in a couple more players and also keep Ademola Lookman, which would be a statement of positive intent rather than consistent fire sales.
A full season of League One football wouldn't be a bad thing for him, given his age. It'd be similar to when Southampton had Schneiderlin in their League One team. Arguably he became a better player for that, rather than going up a level or two but not getting regular action. Obviously if he was older, like Cousins, he'd have more of a right to expect Championship football.
If they keep the momentum they were building they may just start to reach 10,000. How close we get to that (or whether we surpass it) will probably depend on who is added and how early results go.
What momentum was that then the English manager and three 'marquee' signings before the fire sales? Righto
Aren't they what fans have also been asking for ?
A British manager that knows the game and the division
Players that look like they will give it a good go rather than looking like they want to go
Name all the new players @letthegoodtimesroll that will give it a good go - Tomlin & Ajose - who else - Crofts defensive midfielder freebie - ?
No one who has not renewed has done so because they are responding to a call to boycott (there has been no call from any organized group to boycott from what I have seen), they have done so themselves for whatever reason.
There will be a high concentration of STs in the North Lower (migrated from elsewhere) and central points of the West, everywhere else in the ground is going to be particularly sparse on a regular basis unless the Club flood the market with school freebies or the team gets a flying start to the season.
It will be very interesting to see how the atmosphere is going to be impacted taking the core vocal part away from the North Upper. Absolutely no idea whether it will improve or lessen it.
Charlton over the last ten years have had a high Season Ticket ratio as a legacy from needing a ST in the premier league. Over those years a lot of people have renewed who have not been habitual 'every game' fans, which led to a large number of 'no-shows' in recent years.
It will be interesting to see if the 4,500+ who have not renewed are primarily those in that camp, or people that more often than not have been using their ticket for most games.
How much are they expecting the club is worth? Wolves have just gone for £45m. A club that owns it's own stadium and recently redeveloped training ground with a strong academy status, albeit not yet with the productive conveyor belt we've had as yet.
Obviously a club in the Midlands will be cheaper than if it was London based, even with the same attributes.
Wolves are one division from the PL, one good season and kerching, that's a massive difference between the clubs
If we'd stayed up, we would have been a lot more attractive to potential purchasers
I think the only reason that the figure has been put up on the OS is to "get their excuse in first" as the number was confirmed at Monday night's FF meeting- minutes should be posted any time now.
BTW if anyone's interested, I continue to boycott these meetings.
I think the only reason that the figure has been put up on the OS is to "get their excuse in first" as the number was confirmed at Monday night's FF meeting- minutes should be posted any time now.
BTW if anyone's interested, I continue to boycott these meetings.
"Had a quick look at 1995/96, for which I happen to have the official breakdowns. At the time of the final game of the season against Wolves, there were 4,428 season tickets." But I think in 94/95 the Valley capacity was only 14,000 so it probably looked 1/3 full. 5.5K ST's in a 27000 Capacity ground is going to look really terrible. In his 2 and a half years in charge Roland has set us back 20 years and a Division below. How that bitch is still CEO is bizarre.
Comments
If the season tickets had held up, which they haven't and no amount of wishful thinking is going to make that season ticket higher that it is, then Meire would have said that Charlton supporters support the Duchatelet way of doing things and there is no reason to change method. Meire may make up some utter rubbish, risible spin or outright lie as per usual about the season ticket holders. In terms of the football world, she is without creadability and I don't think we have to worry too much about that. The spectacularly inept failure at Charlton is clear for all to see. This is the main driver for falling attendances.
Having a business failing so spectacularly as his is doing is going to cost him money. This is ultimately what Duchatelet cares about. This is why he will be selling the club. CARD and protesting Charlton supporters are helping him to make that inevitable decision.
Obviously a club in the Midlands will be cheaper than if it was London based, even with the same attributes.
A British manager that knows the game and the division
Players that look like they will give it a good go rather than looking like they want to go
A full season of League One football wouldn't be a bad thing for him, given his age. It'd be similar to when Southampton had Schneiderlin in their League One team. Arguably he became a better player for that, rather than going up a level or two but not getting regular action. Obviously if he was older, like Cousins, he'd have more of a right to expect Championship football.
But money talks...for the player and the owner
No one who has not renewed has done so because they are responding to a call to boycott (there has been no call from any organized group to boycott from what I have seen), they have done so themselves for whatever reason.
There will be a high concentration of STs in the North Lower (migrated from elsewhere) and central points of the West, everywhere else in the ground is going to be particularly sparse on a regular basis unless the Club flood the market with school freebies or the team gets a flying start to the season.
It will be very interesting to see how the atmosphere is going to be impacted taking the core vocal part away from the North Upper. Absolutely no idea whether it will improve or lessen it.
Charlton over the last ten years have had a high Season Ticket ratio as a legacy from needing a ST in the premier league. Over those years a lot of people have renewed who have not been habitual 'every game' fans, which led to a large number of 'no-shows' in recent years.
It will be interesting to see if the 4,500+ who have not renewed are primarily those in that camp, or people that more often than not have been using their ticket for most games.
If we'd stayed up, we would have been a lot more attractive to potential purchasers
BTW if anyone's interested, I continue to boycott these meetings.
But I think in 94/95 the Valley capacity was only 14,000 so it probably looked 1/3 full.
5.5K ST's in a 27000 Capacity ground is going to look really terrible. In his 2 and a half years in charge Roland has set us back 20 years and a Division below. How that bitch is still CEO is bizarre.