All local non league teams are potentially, to paranoid me , a small threat to our fanbase and being a miserable git I want them all to stay pony so as not to affect my club
You're just p***** off as their away support is better!
Never forgive Maidstone for the what they did to Dartford although realise it wasn't their supporters. Don't like Ebbsfleet, not only because of rivalry with Dartford but basically because of the money they have. Relatively more than Chelsea and Man C together playing against teams of Charlton budgets
Do you know the size of their budget and what a ridiculous statement to make regarding Chelsea and man city.
Well done maidstone you held your bottle when fleet lost theirs.
It did feel Charlton lite yesterday, with Martin Toal, BDL and other little tropes from big games when PV was in charge.
And like any operation type game, the organisers blew it.
Agree with Afka, failing to get out of that league for the third year running with that budget, is failure.
And you there, Rothko? :-)
I don't think the opera singer was associated with "operation type games" (which were away) or that we had a particular results record associated with that aspect, but I don't have a list!
The opera singer is more "Varney" than "Charlton", as we were joking yesterday.
I'm not looking at anything back to front, it's clear to everyone that Charlton's main problems are Charlton, and that all local clubs either league or non-league have an impact.
I just see the one at Ebbsfleet as stronger than what others do over the next ten years. Had they just been promoted to League 2 yesterday rather than remain in Conf South (which they really should have done with their budget) I'm not sure so many others would be so sanguine. But they will be soon, clubs don't build £5m+ stands to stay at that level, and Vaney knows how to get people into grounds, if there are seats to fill, no one can doubt that.
I know we have had this difference in viewpoint before, and I've no idea whether your views are unintentionally influenced by your links to Varney but I'm not sure anyone can deny the 'mini-Charlton' view when for example:
- the Vice Chairman and strongest influence is out former Chief Executive - their board contains former CAFC Directors - their assistant manager is our former manager and club stalwart - their General Manager is out former Head of Commercial - their main shirt sponsor is a current (suspect soon to be former) CAFC sponsor - their back shirt sponsor is a former CAFC sponsor - since Varney's appointment down there there has been a huge influence of traditional CAFC sponsors such as BreamTeam, PHB Construction etc - yesterday BDL was the pitch announcer - yesterday they had the same opera singer that used to Charlton end of season games - it's not uncomon in the posh seats to be a strong CAFC influence there, and amongst others yesterday were Keith Peacock, Mick Everett, Suthers etc
That's not a dig at any of those people. But Ebbsfleet out of all the local ones has the strongest Charlton overlap, and also the most potential to progress imo. I fully expect them to engage in Community Trust work over the next five years for example. All the while Charlton is floundering there is mileage in them making gains off the pitch from us imo
I'm not looking at anything back to front, it's clear to everyone that Charlton's main problems are Charlton, and that all local clubs either league or non-league have an impact.
I just see the one at Ebbsfleet as stronger than what others do over the next ten years. Had they just been promoted to League 2 yesterday rather than remain in Conf South (which they really should have done with their budget) I'm not sure so many others would be so sanguine. But they will be soon, clubs don't build £5m+ stands to stay at that level, and Vaney knows how to get people into grounds, if there are seats to fill, no one can doubt that.
I know we have had this difference in viewpoint before, and I've no idea whether your views are unintentionally influenced by your links to Varney but I'm not sure anyone can deny the 'mini-Charlton' view when for example:
- the Vice Chairman and strongest influence is out former Chief Executive - their board contains former CAFC Directors - their assistant manager is our former manager and club stalwart - their General Manager is out former Head of Commercial - their main shirt sponsor is a current (suspect soon to be former) CAFC sponsor - their back shirt sponsor is a former CAFC sponsor - since Varney's appointment down there there has been a huge influence of traditional CAFC sponsors such as BreamTeam, PHB Construction etc - yesterday BDL was the pitch announcer - yesterday they had the same opera singer that used to Charlton end of season games - it's not uncomon in the posh seats to be a strong CAFC influence there, and amongst others yesterday were Keith Peacock, Mick Everett, Suthers etc
That's not a dig at any of those people. But Ebbsfleet out of all the local ones has the strongest Charlton overlap, and also the most potential to progress imo. I fully expect them to engage in Community Trust work over the next five years for example. All the while Charlton is floundering there is mileage in them making gains off the pitch from us imo
You forgot to mention that they also play in red and white.
I agree with you that all other clubs are a threat to our support. I think the idea that the threat to our support is posed because of the involvement at Ebbsfleet of people previously/also involved at Charlton is paranoia. With due respect to the sponsors, none of them amounts to anything significant in the context of Charlton's turnover. And all of them will tell you the same story about their treatment by Charlton. Just what are they supposed to do?
Football fans watch football, not sponsors or staff, and as far as I'm aware Mick Everett and Keith Peacock still work for Charlton, and don't work for Ebbsfleet, so I'm not clear how you think what they do on their own time is damaging to Charlton?
Everything you identify can be traced back to one person, who Charlton have treated shamefully. Take Varney out of Ebbsfleet and the rest of it falls away. Leaving aside that Charlton (albeit not the Belgians) are directly responsible for him being there, I think all this comes down to a feeling that he shouldn't be involved there because he's a Charlton fan, but ultimately that's a matter for him and no one else, as far as I can see.
And it's not as if he hasn't put plenty of time into trying to resolve the problem at Charlton too, not all of which is in the public domain.
Some of the hatred expressed for ebbsfleet on this thread is laughable.
I go down there quite a bit as I live half a mile from Stonebridge Road. Nice club. I like the fact you can have a pint on the terraces whilst watching the game. There is a Charlton feel about the club with Varney in charge.
They'll get to where they want to be eventually I'm sure. As others have said, they absolutely bottled it this season from the position they were in but they will get there.
They'll always be Gravesend & Northfleet to me though!
Born and raised in Sevenoaks and when not watching Charlton I used to watch Tonbridge Angels who had a big rivalry with Maidstone. I have lived in Chatham for the last 5 years and when not watching Charlton I now occasionally watch Maidstone. The situation at The Valley at the moment means that for the first time ever I haven't seen a single Charlton game home or away all season. And next season I will carry on watching the Stones even more. Maidstone is only 10 minutes down the road from me. Ebbsfleet isn't far up the A2 but I have no affinity with them and no desire to watch any of their games. When all's said and done though, if RD were to sell up and naff off I'd be back like a shot. I may wander but I could never leave. It's just a hiccup in the relationship with my true love. Someone mentioned earlier that all teams have a natural level which I think is true. The only threat to Charlton is from within the club itself. A change of ownership will be the spoonful of sugar needed to sweeten this bitterest of pills.
The real issue here is that the people running our club have made such a mess of it that we're having to have a discussion over whether the likes of Ebbsfleet are taking our support. Should be the other way round.
Please bear with me as this is my first post. Ebbsfleet, Dartford, or Maidstone etc are not the problem! If you are a Charlton supporter then you stay a Charlton supporter. Some of the 'Charlton people' that have been mentioned at the game yesterday I believe we're there to watch a good game of football and to support friends and former colleagues that they have met through Charlton. My main issue (which has been bugging me for sometime now) is what to do next season, either boycott my season tickets, as I don't want to give the owner anymore of my money! Or to renew the cheapest way I can. If no positive news comes out from the club in the next few weeks and I do not renew my season tickets, then Yes I will be watching Ebbsfleet, possibly some Dartford and Maidstone games, as I have friends at all these clubs, I will certainly be going to a lot more Charlton away games. I can't be the only one thinking this way. I never knew how much being a Charlton supporter meant to me until you see it being slowly taken away .
As someone who is not in the know regarding the history of Maidstone, Dartford and Ebbsfleet I'd like to know the following:
Why do so many people hate Ebbsfleet?
What did Maidstone do to Dartford that is unforgivable?
I don't think anyone 'hates' Ebbsfleet. They have a long running rivalry with Dartford and there are a few Dartford people on here, but wouldn't take any words seriously.
Personally, as a Charlton fan i see that they are increasingly building a mini-Charlton down there and think they are a serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied / future support. There is a large number of ex-CAFC staff, directors, sponsors, contacts now involved down there and I see that increasing further over the next 12 months.
With their resources and potential, they should have secured two promotions by now and be in League 2, the fact they still can't get out the Conf South i think has been a major underachievement, and be I'm not too unhappy about. It's nothing personal against Ebbsfleet or the people involved, I just don't think them doing well will be good for Charlton.
Are we also worried about Steve Kavanagh being chief exec of Southend United or Steve Waggott being at Gillingham?
Glad to know I am not the only one worried about Waggott turning Gillingham into the Barcelona of Kent
As someone who is not in the know regarding the history of Maidstone, Dartford and Ebbsfleet I'd like to know the following:
Why do so many people hate Ebbsfleet?
What did Maidstone do to Dartford that is unforgivable?
Another Dartford fans view. My recollection of the episode was that Maidstone did one of the most bizarre moves imaginable. They sold their ground, invested the procedes in squad way beyond their usual budget, stormed the conference and arrived in tier 4. However by that stage, they were groundsharing with Dartford, an awkward 25 miles away. For the Darts, the initial unease was not relieved by rumours about money Maidstone were paying, and the ground changed,hit by the regulations governing league football, with a lot of new fences around the place and decorated yellow and black, Maidstones colours. The Dartford board initially claimed this was due to 'fire regulations', but like a lot of what we hear at the Valley these days, the truth soon came out, that far being a league regulation being imposed, the ground was decorated that way because the new tennants had demanded it, which suggested that the owning club had sold their sould to the devil. When eventually the results of selling their ground hit Maidstone, they went bankrupt. Whatever had gone on behind the scenes is still unclear to a lot of Dartford fans, but the Maidstone debts were transferred to Dartford, who winked out of business a few weeks into the next season, while the bank reposessed the ground to cover the accumulated debts. It should be made clear that it had little to do with the fans, in much the same way that Charlton's wretched years at Selhurst were not the fault of the Palace fans, but there is some resentment. The fact is most non league clubs away from those owned by Millionaires are always financialy wobbly, and Dartford were not in a position to withstand much turbulance, let alone another club's debts being dumped on them. As for Ebbsfleet, they are local rivals. How many people on here will be rooting for Palace in the cup final? A mate of mine at Dartford once pointed out it is very much good for both clubs to share a league, though maybe less so now for the Fleet, as they are rich now. The last time they did, the boxing day and new years day fixtures showed an aggregate of more than 6,000 fans, no crowd problems, cheerfull mixing in the bars and two good matches. For Dartford, the same applies to Welling, as two similar sized clubs in close proximity. I will add that when Ebbsfleet beat Dartford at Princes Park early last season, some of their fans were loudly boasting about a probable total of 110 points for the season, as they romped home to an easy Championship title with no credible opposition. a lot of fans in that position would probably have done the same, but given how spectacularly Ebbsfleet blew up in the run in, and failed to even go up via the play offs, there will be a lot of laughter among the Dartford fansw who were listening to them crowing back in september. Football can be a cruel sport, but sometimes a funny one.
No affinity with Gravesend at all - have been there twice in my entire life - so there's no earthly reason why I'd be interested in supporting Ebbsfleet United.
But as someone that lives in SE7, I'm always struck at just how many people have continued to schlep in from deepest Kent - from places I've never even heard of - to watch the crap served up at The Valley under the Belgians, when I can barely be bothered to walk 10 minutes down the road some times.
So anyone who runs a non-league club in Kent (or even closer to home - Welling are looking set for a takeover, while Greenwich Borough are now Ryman South and will be playing in Eltham again next season) is going to be looking at the possible implosion of Charlton under Duchatelet and seeing an opportunity. It's a no-brainer. Why schlep all the way through traffic jams or rail replacement buses to a club that doesn't like you when you can go up the road, maybe get free tickets for the kids, and start enjoying yourself at the football again?
And it just happens that Ebbsfleet are run by the man who knows the buttons to press when it comes to luring Charlton fans to football matches. It's not going to be for everyone, but Charlton's self-inflicted problems are leading to a lot of fans in SE London and Kent with free Saturday afternoons who want to watch some football. If you were Ebbsfleet - or Maidstone, Tonbridge Angels, Dartford or Margate - why wouldn't you target them?
The thing about other clubs, is that I feel no attachment to them. Where I live now Barnet are my nearest club, I want them to win but have no real feelings towards them. Similarly, Saracens rugby club are incredibly successful and now European champions, but their success is nothing compared to watching Charlton win.
Watching Barnet or Saracens play is a nice afternoon out of the house, whereas Charlton are MY team, that's the difference. It's not a rational thing...
As someone who is not in the know regarding the history of Maidstone, Dartford and Ebbsfleet I'd like to know the following:
Why do so many people hate Ebbsfleet?
What did Maidstone do to Dartford that is unforgivable?
I don't think anyone 'hates' Ebbsfleet. They have a long running rivalry with Dartford and there are a few Dartford people on here, but wouldn't take any words seriously.
Personally, as a Charlton fan i see that they are increasingly building a mini-Charlton down there and think they are a serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied / future support. There is a large number of ex-CAFC staff, directors, sponsors, contacts now involved down there and I see that increasing further over the next 12 months.
With their resources and potential, they should have secured two promotions by now and be in League 2, the fact they still can't get out the Conf South i think has been a major underachievement, and be I'm not too unhappy about. It's nothing personal against Ebbsfleet or the people involved, I just don't think them doing well will be good for Charlton.
I'd take issue with "increasingly building a mini-Charlton", based on the facts rather than perceptions.
As far as staff are concerned there is Varney, Dave Archer and Steve Gritt, to my knowledge. When Varney was chief executive at Charlton, there were more than 100 non-football staff at Charlton by comparison. Of the three named, one walked out of Charlton, taking a massive pay cut, because he couldn't work with the regime and the other two were forced out (in different circumstances).
Is there really anything strange about them getting other (inferior) jobs in football at the same club? Are we also worried about Steve Kavanagh being chief exec of Southend United or Steve Waggott being at Gillingham? Both will use commercial contacts made at Charlton. Football is a small world and this happens all the time.
I believe Stuart Butler-Gallie is a director of Fleet, having previously been a director at Charlton (briefly). He and his children were banned from The Valley by Slater because (long after being a director) he gave legal advice to a former employee in his professional capacity. Was it unreasonable for him to take up a directorship elsewhere? Ditto sponsors who are walking away from Charlton because of the current ownership.
Admittedly, Keith Peacock and his wife were there yesterday and I expect Steve Sutherland is a regular visitor, but what exactly is the threat there? Dave Lockwood was on the PA. I doubt if it means he is leaving Charlton or that the other two have changed allegiance.
Incidentally, I've seen two Ebbsfleet matches in the last three years, one of which involved Charlton, so you can count me out of your list!
Meanwhile, we have a club with 50,000 season tickets playing Premier League football much closer to The Valley, Palace in the FA Cup final and Millwall with the opportunity to gain promotion.
You could equally talk to Sue from Maidstone CASC about the impact Maidstone United is having on Charlton support in her area, when combined with the shambles at The Valley.
All these clubs are a "serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied/future support", as are Bromley, Dartford and Welling. But our fans aren't going to Ebbsfleet to watch Varney, Archer and Gritt, even if their mates might stop by to visit.
The problem is not with any of these clubs. It's with Charlton. The longer this current situation goes on the more the club will be badly damaged by losing supporters left right and centre, to other clubs and to other things.
I understand that people are suspicious of the money behind Ebbsfleet and that's a fair enough point, although I guess the smaller League One clubs might say the same about Duchatelet's wealth, but focusing on the ex-Charlton component seems to me to be looking at the situation back to front.
Yes, Airman, you are absolutely right about that, and especially about the fans' paranoia about Ebbsfleet. I am old and ugly enough to recall your selling the first edition of The Voice on the open terrace at Twerton Park. For our younger readers, it was our first away game of that season. Bristol Rovers lodged at Bath City: we had just been relegated from the First, and the Gas-Heads had come up from the Third. A provincial ground, easy as you like. And we lost, 2-1.
Jonny Jackson is quite right when he said after the Bolton game that confirmed our relegation: "It's all our fault." The players themselves have failed. I have watched from the Covered End since 1965: Tees, Gregory, Hales, Flanagan, Powell, Walsh, Robinson, Kermorgant...
What absolutely superb players they were: tough, intelligent, quick and instinctive. When Lookman stumbles over the ball, I laugh. Harriott rushes like a toddler, falling over plastic furniture on the Isle of Sheppey. Makienok is an albino Leaburn, Bambi on Ice for a reunion game that never happened. Our occasional shots, one-on-one with the keeper, are skied, shanked, muffed...
We lost eight games this season 3-0. EIGHT! And 4-0 at Burnley, 5-0 at Huddersfield, and 6-0 at Hull. That is utterly disgraceful. And Jackson - our captain, don't forget - is absolutely right when he says the players themselves have failed.
As someone who is not in the know regarding the history of Maidstone, Dartford and Ebbsfleet I'd like to know the following:
Why do so many people hate Ebbsfleet?
What did Maidstone do to Dartford that is unforgivable?
I don't think anyone 'hates' Ebbsfleet. They have a long running rivalry with Dartford and there are a few Dartford people on here, but wouldn't take any words seriously.
Personally, as a Charlton fan i see that they are increasingly building a mini-Charlton down there and think they are a serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied / future support. There is a large number of ex-CAFC staff, directors, sponsors, contacts now involved down there and I see that increasing further over the next 12 months.
With their resources and potential, they should have secured two promotions by now and be in League 2, the fact they still can't get out the Conf South i think has been a major underachievement, and be I'm not too unhappy about. It's nothing personal against Ebbsfleet or the people involved, I just don't think them doing well will be good for Charlton.
I'd take issue with "increasingly building a mini-Charlton", based on the facts rather than perceptions.
As far as staff are concerned there is Varney, Dave Archer and Steve Gritt, to my knowledge. When Varney was chief executive at Charlton, there were more than 100 non-football staff at Charlton by comparison. Of the three named, one walked out of Charlton, taking a massive pay cut, because he couldn't work with the regime and the other two were forced out (in different circumstances).
Is there really anything strange about them getting other (inferior) jobs in football at the same club? Are we also worried about Steve Kavanagh being chief exec of Southend United or Steve Waggott being at Gillingham? Both will use commercial contacts made at Charlton. Football is a small world and this happens all the time.
I believe Stuart Butler-Gallie is a director of Fleet, having previously been a director at Charlton (briefly). He and his children were banned from The Valley by Slater because (long after being a director) he gave legal advice to a former employee in his professional capacity. Was it unreasonable for him to take up a directorship elsewhere? Ditto sponsors who are walking away from Charlton because of the current ownership.
Admittedly, Keith Peacock and his wife were there yesterday and I expect Steve Sutherland is a regular visitor, but what exactly is the threat there? Dave Lockwood was on the PA. I doubt if it means he is leaving Charlton or that the other two have changed allegiance.
Incidentally, I've seen two Ebbsfleet matches in the last three years, one of which involved Charlton, so you can count me out of your list!
Meanwhile, we have a club with 50,000 season tickets playing Premier League football much closer to The Valley, Palace in the FA Cup final and Millwall with the opportunity to gain promotion.
You could equally talk to Sue from Maidstone CASC about the impact Maidstone United is having on Charlton support in her area, when combined with the shambles at The Valley.
All these clubs are a "serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied/future support", as are Bromley, Dartford and Welling. But our fans aren't going to Ebbsfleet to watch Varney, Archer and Gritt, even if their mates might stop by to visit.
The problem is not with any of these clubs. It's with Charlton. The longer this current situation goes on the more the club will be badly damaged by losing supporters left right and centre, to other clubs and to other things.
I understand that people are suspicious of the money behind Ebbsfleet and that's a fair enough point, although I guess the smaller League One clubs might say the same about Duchatelet's wealth, but focusing on the ex-Charlton component seems to me to be looking at the situation back to front.
Yes, Airman, you are absolutely right about that, and especially about the fans' paranoia about Ebbsfleet. I am old and ugly enough to recall your selling the first edition of The Voice on the open terrace at Twerton Park. For our younger readers, it was our first away game of that season. Bristol Rovers lodged at Bath City: we had just been relegated from the First, and the Gas-Heads had come up from the Third. A provincial ground, easy as you like. And we lost, 2-1.
Jonny Jackson is quite right when he said after the Bolton game that confirmed our relegation: "It's all our fault." The players themselves have failed. I have watched from the Covered End since 1965: Tees, Gregory, Hales, Flanagan, Powell, Walsh, Robinson, Kermorgant...
What absolutely superb players they were: tough, intelligent, quick and instinctive. When Lookman stumbles over the ball, I laugh. Harriott rushes like a toddler, falling over plastic furniture on the Isle of Sheppey. Makienok is an albino Leaburn, Bambi on Ice for a reunion game that never happened. Our occasional shots, one-on-one with the keeper, are skied, shanked, muffed...
We lost eight games this season 3-0. EIGHT! And 4-0 at Burnley, 5-0 at Huddersfield, and 6-0 at Hull. That is utterly disgraceful. And Jackson - our captain, don't forget - is absolutely right when he says the players themselves have failed.
VOTV came out about 3 seasons before that game at Twerton Park
As someone who is not in the know regarding the history of Maidstone, Dartford and Ebbsfleet I'd like to know the following:
Why do so many people hate Ebbsfleet?
What did Maidstone do to Dartford that is unforgivable?
I don't think anyone 'hates' Ebbsfleet. They have a long running rivalry with Dartford and there are a few Dartford people on here, but wouldn't take any words seriously.
Personally, as a Charlton fan i see that they are increasingly building a mini-Charlton down there and think they are a serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied / future support. There is a large number of ex-CAFC staff, directors, sponsors, contacts now involved down there and I see that increasing further over the next 12 months.
With their resources and potential, they should have secured two promotions by now and be in League 2, the fact they still can't get out the Conf South i think has been a major underachievement, and be I'm not too unhappy about. It's nothing personal against Ebbsfleet or the people involved, I just don't think them doing well will be good for Charlton.
I'd take issue with "increasingly building a mini-Charlton", based on the facts rather than perceptions.
As far as staff are concerned there is Varney, Dave Archer and Steve Gritt, to my knowledge. When Varney was chief executive at Charlton, there were more than 100 non-football staff at Charlton by comparison. Of the three named, one walked out of Charlton, taking a massive pay cut, because he couldn't work with the regime and the other two were forced out (in different circumstances).
Is there really anything strange about them getting other (inferior) jobs in football at the same club? Are we also worried about Steve Kavanagh being chief exec of Southend United or Steve Waggott being at Gillingham? Both will use commercial contacts made at Charlton. Football is a small world and this happens all the time.
I believe Stuart Butler-Gallie is a director of Fleet, having previously been a director at Charlton (briefly). He and his children were banned from The Valley by Slater because (long after being a director) he gave legal advice to a former employee in his professional capacity. Was it unreasonable for him to take up a directorship elsewhere? Ditto sponsors who are walking away from Charlton because of the current ownership.
Admittedly, Keith Peacock and his wife were there yesterday and I expect Steve Sutherland is a regular visitor, but what exactly is the threat there? Dave Lockwood was on the PA. I doubt if it means he is leaving Charlton or that the other two have changed allegiance.
Incidentally, I've seen two Ebbsfleet matches in the last three years, one of which involved Charlton, so you can count me out of your list!
Meanwhile, we have a club with 50,000 season tickets playing Premier League football much closer to The Valley, Palace in the FA Cup final and Millwall with the opportunity to gain promotion.
You could equally talk to Sue from Maidstone CASC about the impact Maidstone United is having on Charlton support in her area, when combined with the shambles at The Valley.
All these clubs are a "serious long-term threat to taking away a chunk of our current dissatisfied/future support", as are Bromley, Dartford and Welling. But our fans aren't going to Ebbsfleet to watch Varney, Archer and Gritt, even if their mates might stop by to visit.
The problem is not with any of these clubs. It's with Charlton. The longer this current situation goes on the more the club will be badly damaged by losing supporters left right and centre, to other clubs and to other things.
I understand that people are suspicious of the money behind Ebbsfleet and that's a fair enough point, although I guess the smaller League One clubs might say the same about Duchatelet's wealth, but focusing on the ex-Charlton component seems to me to be looking at the situation back to front.
Yes, Airman, you are absolutely right about that, and especially about the fans' paranoia about Ebbsfleet. I am old and ugly enough to recall your selling the first edition of The Voice on the open terrace at Twerton Park. For our younger readers, it was our first away game of that season. Bristol Rovers lodged at Bath City: we had just been relegated from the First, and the Gas-Heads had come up from the Third. A provincial ground, easy as you like. And we lost, 2-1.
Jonny Jackson is quite right when he said after the Bolton game that confirmed our relegation: "It's all our fault." The players themselves have failed. I have watched from the Covered End since 1965: Tees, Gregory, Hales, Flanagan, Powell, Walsh, Robinson, Kermorgant...
What absolutely superb players they were: tough, intelligent, quick and instinctive. When Lookman stumbles over the ball, I laugh. Harriott rushes like a toddler, falling over plastic furniture on the Isle of Sheppey. Makienok is an albino Leaburn, Bambi on Ice for a reunion game that never happened. Our occasional shots, one-on-one with the keeper, are skied, shanked, muffed...
We lost eight games this season 3-0. EIGHT! And 4-0 at Burnley, 5-0 at Huddersfield, and 6-0 at Hull. That is utterly disgraceful. And Jackson - our captain, don't forget - is absolutely right when he says the players themselves have failed.
VOTV came out about 3 seasons before that game at Twerton Park
Of course you are correct. And I have those first editions, up in the loft.
It is very important to know that our players themselves are - how can I put it without offending the forum? - a bit bloody dim.
It was a cracking start to the season. Seven new players, each in a new team, a chance to impress. We bumbled around and beat QPR and Hull - both just dropped from the Prem - still in August. Superb! What happened then? It wasn't the ref who robbed us, nor the injuries that beset every single club. Luzon crouched, pranced and pleaded on the touchline - then Carol arrived like a pre-pubescent boy who had failed his A-Levels in Verenweem.
What our players don't do is shocking: they ship three goals routinely, can't defend a corner, do not have the physical strength to win a 50-50 ball in midfield. There was a very telling point at The Valley recently: we were 1-0 down in the second half, and started quickly from the our own box, 15,000 fans imploring, passed to the wing, opponents all stretched, oceans of space - and that pass was just behind the runner. So he checks to receive, and Bang! - midfielder nicks the ball, passes forward, a sweeping cross, and we are 2-0 down.
That is simply poor technique. Watch our strikers when Pope has the ball. Static. Absolutely frozen. Our defender drops back for Pope - shall I or shan't I? A passe-double between retarded strangers. Hoof: spiralling in to Row Z.
Our coaches have failed us, too: they are culpable for our relegation. No rehearsed moves at Sparrows Lane; it has taken us two seasons to work a quick throw-in. Then there's a frenzy on the edge of the box, a desperate wish in the 90th minute - something might happen. 0-3.
You know, after the dressing-room bust-up, the wrong man was exiled. Tony Watt is tough: at The Valley we have seen him shoulder the defender, swivel, and score. Meanwhile, Henderson ships three goals like a pussy, and Jackson is - well, behind.
My youngest brother was a former season ticket holder at the Valley. Hes now moved down Maidstone way and has drifted into watching Maidstone. He pays a lot less, travels less and enjoys the atmosphere there. Hes now lost to CAFC I think.
I expect one day that I will forgive and speak to him again.
I heard that if they failed to get promoted this year the money would pull out, so could have been a costly bottle job
Well they announced today that they've purchased the freehold ownership of the ground from the council & have begun work on the new £5M main stand, so I find that hard to believe!
Blackpool here, good afternoon. Quite a few of our support have vowed never to step inside Bloomfield Rd until the Regime has gone. They still need a footie fix and have latched onto AFC Fylde in the Vanarama North. By all accounts, a very pleasant experience. Myself, living in Kent, I've been down to watch Maidstone a few times. Very good facilities, great to have a pint on the terraces and a good standard of footie. The laugh of it is that Blackpool could well end up playing Maidstone next year, just 6 years after having done the double over Liverpool.
My youngest brother was a former season ticket holder at the Valley. Hes now moved down Maidstone way and has drifted into watching Maidstone. He pays a lot less, travels less and enjoys the atmosphere there. Hes now lost to CAFC I think.
I expect one day that I will forgive and speak to him again.
I used to be season ticket holder at Charlton - gave it up Dowie season - been dipping in and out of Charlton for long time now - becoming more detached from it all - current owners fuel that fire
Spent lots of season just gone going to watch Dartford, even away regularly back end of season - loved it away at Maidstone when we beat them 2-1 - had my Dartford shirt on for the Kent cup final against Charlton, not my Charlton one
Posted off for my Dartford season ticket today for next season
Comments
And like any operation type game, the organisers blew it.
Agree with Afka, failing to get out of that league for the third year running with that budget, is failure.
I don't think the opera singer was associated with "operation type games" (which were away) or that we had a particular results record associated with that aspect, but I don't have a list!
The opera singer is more "Varney" than "Charlton", as we were joking yesterday.
I just see the one at Ebbsfleet as stronger than what others do over the next ten years. Had they just been promoted to League 2 yesterday rather than remain in Conf South (which they really should have done with their budget) I'm not sure so many others would be so sanguine. But they will be soon, clubs don't build £5m+ stands to stay at that level, and Vaney knows how to get people into grounds, if there are seats to fill, no one can doubt that.
I know we have had this difference in viewpoint before, and I've no idea whether your views are unintentionally influenced by your links to Varney but I'm not sure anyone can deny the 'mini-Charlton' view when for example:
- the Vice Chairman and strongest influence is out former Chief Executive
- their board contains former CAFC Directors
- their assistant manager is our former manager and club stalwart
- their General Manager is out former Head of Commercial
- their main shirt sponsor is a current (suspect soon to be former) CAFC sponsor
- their back shirt sponsor is a former CAFC sponsor
- since Varney's appointment down there there has been a huge influence of traditional CAFC sponsors such as BreamTeam, PHB Construction etc
- yesterday BDL was the pitch announcer
- yesterday they had the same opera singer that used to Charlton end of season games
- it's not uncomon in the posh seats to be a strong CAFC influence there, and amongst others yesterday were Keith Peacock, Mick Everett, Suthers etc
That's not a dig at any of those people. But Ebbsfleet out of all the local ones has the strongest Charlton overlap, and also the most potential to progress imo. I fully expect them to engage in Community Trust work over the next five years for example. All the while Charlton is floundering there is mileage in them making gains off the pitch from us imo
I agree with you that all other clubs are a threat to our support. I think the idea that the threat to our support is posed because of the involvement at Ebbsfleet of people previously/also involved at Charlton is paranoia. With due respect to the sponsors, none of them amounts to anything significant in the context of Charlton's turnover. And all of them will tell you the same story about their treatment by Charlton. Just what are they supposed to do?
Football fans watch football, not sponsors or staff, and as far as I'm aware Mick Everett and Keith Peacock still work for Charlton, and don't work for Ebbsfleet, so I'm not clear how you think what they do on their own time is damaging to Charlton?
Everything you identify can be traced back to one person, who Charlton have treated shamefully. Take Varney out of Ebbsfleet and the rest of it falls away. Leaving aside that Charlton (albeit not the Belgians) are directly responsible for him being there, I think all this comes down to a feeling that he shouldn't be involved there because he's a Charlton fan, but ultimately that's a matter for him and no one else, as far as I can see.
And it's not as if he hasn't put plenty of time into trying to resolve the problem at Charlton too, not all of which is in the public domain.
I go down there quite a bit as I live half a mile from Stonebridge Road. Nice club. I like the fact you can have a pint on the terraces whilst watching the game. There is a Charlton feel about the club with Varney in charge.
They'll get to where they want to be eventually I'm sure. As others have said, they absolutely bottled it this season from the position they were in but they will get there.
They'll always be Gravesend & Northfleet to me though!
Ebbsfleet, Dartford, or Maidstone etc are not the problem! If you are a Charlton supporter then you stay a Charlton supporter. Some of the 'Charlton people' that have been mentioned at the game yesterday I believe we're there to watch a good game of football and to support friends and former colleagues that they have met through Charlton.
My main issue (which has been bugging me for sometime now) is what to do next season, either boycott my season tickets, as I don't want to give the owner anymore of my money! Or to renew the cheapest way I can. If no positive news comes out from the club in the next few weeks and I do not renew my season tickets, then Yes I will be watching Ebbsfleet, possibly some Dartford and Maidstone games, as I have friends at all these clubs, I will certainly be going to a lot more Charlton away games.
I can't be the only one thinking this way.
I never knew how much being a Charlton supporter meant to me until you see it being slowly taken away .
As for Ebbsfleet, they are local rivals. How many people on here will be rooting for Palace in the cup final? A mate of mine at Dartford once pointed out it is very much good for both clubs to share a league, though maybe less so now for the Fleet, as they are rich now. The last time they did, the boxing day and new years day fixtures showed an aggregate of more than 6,000 fans, no crowd problems, cheerfull mixing in the bars and two good matches. For Dartford, the same applies to Welling, as two similar sized clubs in close proximity. I will add that when Ebbsfleet beat Dartford at Princes Park early last season, some of their fans were loudly boasting about a probable total of 110 points for the season, as they romped home to an easy Championship title with no credible opposition. a lot of fans in that position would probably have done the same, but given how spectacularly Ebbsfleet blew up in the run in, and failed to even go up via the play offs, there will be a lot of laughter among the Dartford fansw who were listening to them crowing back in september. Football can be a cruel sport, but sometimes a funny one.
But as someone that lives in SE7, I'm always struck at just how many people have continued to schlep in from deepest Kent - from places I've never even heard of - to watch the crap served up at The Valley under the Belgians, when I can barely be bothered to walk 10 minutes down the road some times.
So anyone who runs a non-league club in Kent (or even closer to home - Welling are looking set for a takeover, while Greenwich Borough are now Ryman South and will be playing in Eltham again next season) is going to be looking at the possible implosion of Charlton under Duchatelet and seeing an opportunity. It's a no-brainer. Why schlep all the way through traffic jams or rail replacement buses to a club that doesn't like you when you can go up the road, maybe get free tickets for the kids, and start enjoying yourself at the football again?
And it just happens that Ebbsfleet are run by the man who knows the buttons to press when it comes to luring Charlton fans to football matches. It's not going to be for everyone, but Charlton's self-inflicted problems are leading to a lot of fans in SE London and Kent with free Saturday afternoons who want to watch some football. If you were Ebbsfleet - or Maidstone, Tonbridge Angels, Dartford or Margate - why wouldn't you target them?
Watching Barnet or Saracens play is a nice afternoon out of the house, whereas Charlton are MY team, that's the difference. It's not a rational thing...
Jonny Jackson is quite right when he said after the Bolton game that confirmed our relegation: "It's all our fault." The players themselves have failed. I have watched from the Covered End since 1965: Tees, Gregory, Hales, Flanagan, Powell, Walsh, Robinson, Kermorgant...
What absolutely superb players they were: tough, intelligent, quick and instinctive. When Lookman stumbles over the ball, I laugh. Harriott rushes like a toddler, falling over plastic furniture on the Isle of Sheppey. Makienok is an albino Leaburn, Bambi on Ice for a reunion game that never happened. Our occasional shots, one-on-one with the keeper, are skied, shanked, muffed...
We lost eight games this season 3-0. EIGHT! And 4-0 at Burnley, 5-0 at Huddersfield, and 6-0 at Hull. That is utterly disgraceful. And Jackson - our captain, don't forget - is absolutely right when he says the players themselves have failed.
It is very important to know that our players themselves are - how can I put it without offending the forum? - a bit bloody dim.
It was a cracking start to the season. Seven new players, each in a new team, a chance to impress. We bumbled around and beat QPR and Hull - both just dropped from the Prem - still in August. Superb! What happened then? It wasn't the ref who robbed us, nor the injuries that beset every single club. Luzon crouched, pranced and pleaded on the touchline - then Carol arrived like a pre-pubescent boy who had failed his A-Levels in Verenweem.
What our players don't do is shocking: they ship three goals routinely, can't defend a corner, do not have the physical strength to win a 50-50 ball in midfield. There was a very telling point at The Valley recently: we were 1-0 down in the second half, and started quickly from the our own box, 15,000 fans imploring, passed to the wing, opponents all stretched, oceans of space - and that pass was just behind the runner. So he checks to receive, and Bang! - midfielder nicks the ball, passes forward, a sweeping cross, and we are 2-0 down.
That is simply poor technique. Watch our strikers when Pope has the ball. Static. Absolutely frozen. Our defender drops back for Pope - shall I or shan't I? A passe-double between retarded strangers. Hoof: spiralling in to Row Z.
Our coaches have failed us, too: they are culpable for our relegation. No rehearsed moves at Sparrows Lane; it has taken us two seasons to work a quick throw-in. Then there's a frenzy on the edge of the box, a desperate wish in the 90th minute - something might happen. 0-3.
You know, after the dressing-room bust-up, the wrong man was exiled. Tony Watt is tough: at The Valley we have seen him shoulder the defender, swivel, and score. Meanwhile, Henderson ships three goals like a pussy, and Jackson is - well, behind.
I expect one day that I will forgive and speak to him again.
Your brother is happy at Maidstone, and you forgive him intuitively.
Just imagine if he supported Dulwich Hamlet. He would then be a she.
The laugh of it is that Blackpool could well end up playing Maidstone next year, just 6 years after having done the double over Liverpool.
Spent lots of season just gone going to watch Dartford, even away regularly back end of season - loved it away at Maidstone when we beat them 2-1 - had my Dartford shirt on for the Kent cup final against Charlton, not my Charlton one
Posted off for my Dartford season ticket today for next season
It just feels.........more enjoyable I'm afraid