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Worst FTSE falls in history.

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  • What the feck happened in February that caused no one to panic

    Chinese economy blipped I think
  • Ohh look the market closed last bight at a week long high. Not exceptional but shows its no disaster. The pound also went back up and readjusted and will continue to do so.

    I get the result didn't go the way many of us wanted it to but let's not make it out to be an economic apocalypse. There is no plague of locusts.

    Some of you may remember that when we chose not to take the euro the pound absolutely plummeted far worse than it did yesterday. And markets went down a similar level. But it was a short readjustment and everything went back to normal in a few days. And that decision turned out to be the right one in the end.

    I am by no means saying leave was the right decision. But so many people have this attitude that they want everything to go horribly wrong immediately just so they can say I told you so. For me as an economist whilst it may not be what I would have wanted I can see possible opportunities arising from this and I want us to take them and make it as much of a success as possible. I want it to work and us all to look back on this in ten years time and say maybe it wasn't so bad.

    Do you really think there are 'so many' people who want things to go wrong? I'm appalled we've voted to leave (I can see it leading to the disintegration of the UK as just one consequence) but I sure as hell hope our economy does well. I'm just praying we don't get Boris as our PM.
  • Blair , Brown, Cameron !!! We deserve someone better than that lot --- and FFS let's hope it's not Borris--- loved it when he beat Red Ken , but that's about Red Ken nit Boris.
  • I'd base nothing on the way the markets reacted yesterday. Was always going to be a knee jerk reaction as with many major event like this. I'd take more notice of the markets once the political landscape (new party leaders, Scotland, NI, article 50) becomes clearer. That will be months. This will a be long term game i'm afraid @Redmidland
  • It's the worst anyone has seen Sterling since the Russia game
  • I would say that Pound Sterling has performed a lot better than Raheem!
  • So how I saw yesterday was a dive first thing, then the market being a market lots of people saw opportunities to buy and that's what pushed things up as the day went on

    If I was an independent trader with some capital behind me I'd have been kicking my lips. It's a bit immoral but unfortunately that is capitalism. A lot of people made a lot of money post September 2001 from the same thing.

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  • E-cafc said:

    The FTSE actually finished last night at a higher level than it did the previous Friday. The pound recovered quickly and will continue to do so as it is a strong, powerful currency.

    The referendum result is classed as a risk event in trading terms. Risk events happen all the time, almost on a weekly basis. Every central bank announcement, interest rate decision, GDP projections, growth forecasts,currency devaluations, etc are all classed as risk events. The tone and sentiment of those announcements decides whether markets and currencies will fall or not. The reaction is instant is almost every case. Then things start to balance out and retrace to a more stable level. Risk events provide opportunities for traders and investors. Just because they backed the wrong horse in the referendum they are all crying about it. Tough shit, you win some, you lose some.

    Of course the referendum result would cause volatility in the markets. The pound is a strong currency and our economy is better than any other in the EU at the moment simply because we are not tied to the economic cesspit, job destroying, politically designed euro. The ECB has had to take more measures this year alone to shore up it's failing currency than we will ever have to make. The pound and the euro simply cannot be compared in terms of strength.

    As mentioned earlier the Chinese economy slumped around February and this caused many problems in that part of the world. Bigger problems than Brexit could ever cause. The Japanese had to devalue the yen as a result. The Aussie and Kiwi dollar both suffered because of it.

    That is the nature of the markets.

    The whining and crying from a section of the remainers is sad to watch. They even have a petition out calling for another referendum. The disgusting mob outside Boris' house just about sums them up. What they really need to do is stop crying and get on with it the same as everyone else has to do.

    They accuse those who voted out of not having any idea what they were voting for. That's true in a sense but what is also true is that those who voted remain also had no idea whatsoever what they were voting for either.





    You are confusing fluctuations in a country's exchange rates due to short term market sentiment and trading opportunities, and fluctions due to long term market sentiment and fundamental structural changes to that country's economy.
  • Carter said:

    So how I saw yesterday was a dive first thing, then the market being a market lots of people saw opportunities to buy and that's what pushed things up as the day went on

    If I was an independent trader with some capital behind me I'd have been kicking my lips. It's a bit immoral but unfortunately that is capitalism. A lot of people made a lot of money post September 2001 from the same thing.

    Black Wednesday saw George Soros make billions but was not great for the wider county.

    Will the optimistic brexiters confidently stating we're economically better off out of it please explain how as all the experts and economists I work with say the opposite and clients are already talking about exodus to Ireland and other eu members?
  • edited June 2016
    Blimey, I have found myself agreeing with Goonerhater's last two posts. :smiley:
    #Brexitunexpectedconsequences...
    As someone who voted Remain ( and as someone posted above, in all honesty, I just didn't have the valid knowledge to be able to really decide one way or the other, like many others) must admit my heart ( and some of my shares) sank, yesterday morning when I heard the result.
    BUT, whilst I still am alarmed about the possible consequences, I can see there are major problems within the EU, namely the monetary union, which has already caused massive financial turbulence because of Greece's problems.
    I can't help feeling that the EU is a bit of a disaster waiting to happen, and maybe beginning to renegotiate our position and place before it disintegrates may actually benefit us inasmuch as we don't get sucked into the mess quite as much.
    But what do I know, I could be talking utter bollocks. The only caveat I would make to that, is that hasn't stopped a lot of politicians and experts who can't really predict how it will all pan out either.
  • E-cafc said:

    The FTSE actually finished last night at a higher level than it did the previous Friday. The pound recovered quickly and will continue to do so as it is a strong, powerful currency.

    The referendum result is classed as a risk event in trading terms. Risk events happen all the time, almost on a weekly basis. Every central bank announcement, interest rate decision, GDP projections, growth forecasts,currency devaluations, etc are all classed as risk events. The tone and sentiment of those announcements decides whether markets and currencies will fall or not. The reaction is instant is almost every case. Then things start to balance out and retrace to a more stable level. Risk events provide opportunities for traders and investors. Just because they backed the wrong horse in the referendum they are all crying about it. Tough shit, you win some, you lose some.

    Of course the referendum result would cause volatility in the markets. The pound is a strong currency and our economy is better than any other in the EU at the moment simply because we are not tied to the economic cesspit, job destroying, politically designed euro. The ECB has had to take more measures this year alone to shore up it's failing currency than we will ever have to make. The pound and the euro simply cannot be compared in terms of strength.

    As mentioned earlier the Chinese economy slumped around February and this caused many problems in that part of the world. Bigger problems than Brexit could ever cause. The Japanese had to devalue the yen as a result. The Aussie and Kiwi dollar both suffered because of it.

    That is the nature of the markets.

    The whining and crying from a section of the remainers is sad to watch. They even have a petition out calling for another referendum. The disgusting mob outside Boris' house just about sums them up. What they really need to do is stop crying and get on with it the same as everyone else has to do.

    They accuse those who voted out of not having any idea what they were voting for. That's true in a sense but what is also true is that those who voted remain also had no idea whatsoever what they were voting for either.





    You are confusing fluctuations in a country's exchange rates due to short term market sentiment and trading opportunities, and fluctions due to long term market sentiment and fundamental structural changes to that country's economy.
    Sorry, am not confusing anything. Why don't we wait and see how it all pans out.
  • It's interesting that falls in other European markets and in the US overnight were far worse than the FTSE. I think the reason for this is the perception that the EU will now disintegrate as more countries vote to leave. In this scenario the UK will benefit. The perception that individual countries can not survive on their own two feet, make trade deals, manufacture, secure their borders, impose their own laws, and not prosper, is complete rubbish. The end of globalisition will be fantastic, think of how Greece nearly brought down the world economy and rolled on for years, terrifying markets around the world, all because they couldn't devalue their currency. All markets moving in tandem is good for no one. There should be no correlation between the Greek market and Australia for example. One should be able to pick winners and discard losers, but this has become increasingly difficult with global markets all moving together. Any country (or individual) that works hard and governs itself well, deserves, and should be allowed to prosper.
    The sooner the EU implodes altogether, the better. It may take some time to play itself out, but eventually, yesterday's decision will prove to be a turning point for the better.

    I don't why the European markets went down so much more than the UK, but clearly it's a sign of the potentially adverse effect on the EU countries of Brexit, and a sign that the EU politicians need to stop the posturing and threats and come up with sensible reforms and a workable deal with the UK

    UK down only 3.15%
    Frankfurt down 6.8%
    Paris down 8%
    Madrid down 12%
    Milan down 12.5%
  • E-cafc said:

    E-cafc said:

    The FTSE actually finished last night at a higher level than it did the previous Friday. The pound recovered quickly and will continue to do so as it is a strong, powerful currency.

    The referendum result is classed as a risk event in trading terms. Risk events happen all the time, almost on a weekly basis. Every central bank announcement, interest rate decision, GDP projections, growth forecasts,currency devaluations, etc are all classed as risk events. The tone and sentiment of those announcements decides whether markets and currencies will fall or not. The reaction is instant is almost every case. Then things start to balance out and retrace to a more stable level. Risk events provide opportunities for traders and investors. Just because they backed the wrong horse in the referendum they are all crying about it. Tough shit, you win some, you lose some.

    Of course the referendum result would cause volatility in the markets. The pound is a strong currency and our economy is better than any other in the EU at the moment simply because we are not tied to the economic cesspit, job destroying, politically designed euro. The ECB has had to take more measures this year alone to shore up it's failing currency than we will ever have to make. The pound and the euro simply cannot be compared in terms of strength.

    As mentioned earlier the Chinese economy slumped around February and this caused many problems in that part of the world. Bigger problems than Brexit could ever cause. The Japanese had to devalue the yen as a result. The Aussie and Kiwi dollar both suffered because of it.

    That is the nature of the markets.

    The whining and crying from a section of the remainers is sad to watch. They even have a petition out calling for another referendum. The disgusting mob outside Boris' house just about sums them up. What they really need to do is stop crying and get on with it the same as everyone else has to do.

    They accuse those who voted out of not having any idea what they were voting for. That's true in a sense but what is also true is that those who voted remain also had no idea whatsoever what they were voting for either.





    You are confusing fluctuations in a country's exchange rates due to short term market sentiment and trading opportunities, and fluctions due to long term market sentiment and fundamental structural changes to that country's economy.
    Sorry, am not confusing anything. Why don't we wait and see how it all pans out.
    You do understand the implications of having our rating downgraded?
  • If you were really cynical you would get a major player on the Leave side to say that the remain side are going to shade it at 10 PM as the poll shuts.
    Then just before the Newcastle and Sunderland results (they were always going to be the early results) the Hedge funds pile on their millions on the Falling Pound.

    Just saying !
  • Blair , Brown, Cameron !!! We deserve someone better than that lot --- and FFS let's hope it's not Borris--- loved it when he beat Red Ken , but that's about Red Ken nit Boris.

    I had to laugh, I was watching the BBC news last night and at one point they had a time line of different Prime Ministers and the changing attitudes towards the EU... Poor ol' Gordon was left out completely.
  • If you were really cynical you would get a major player on the Leave side to say that the remain side are going to shade it at 10 PM as the poll shuts.
    Then just before the Newcastle and Sunderland results (they were always going to be the early results) the Hedge funds pile on their millions on the Falling Pound.

    Just saying !

    Interesting view, and I think were most likely thinking of the same man and his comments about his "City Friends" telling him he'd lost..

    That baffled me too.
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  • The ftse 100 is pretty much all big multinationals, more affected by the global economy than the UK. More significant is the ftse 250, mainly British mid-caps, which finished down by the biggest number of points in its history and the largest percentage drop since Black Monday.

    Sadly I do think we will continue to see downward momentum for quite some time and the uncertainty of not knowing who the new pm will be or the shape of what the relationship with the EU will look like feeds into that.

    I think there will be buying opportunities but would wait as we're not at the bottom yet. My concern is how long it will take to come out the other side. A friend on a research desk says they have a target of 1.20 for GBP-USD by the end of the year! Really hope not.
  • The amount of market visionaries on this thread is amazing.

    Surely you're all now rich enough to put together a bid for the Club?
  • edited June 2016
    So do The "REMAIN" CL's believe that the Pakistani and Indian,
    1st, 2nd and 3rd generations in Britain who voted for LEAVE,
    Many on TV said that's how they would vote. Are racist ?

    This appears to be the views of a lot of the younger "remain"
    on social media who have said that anyone who was for Brexit is Xenophobic
  • My opinion is that we will see market turbulence for at least 6 months and agree that we will see a much weaker pound and a lower value to the FTSE the other consequence is that both RBS and Lloyds will now remain in public ownership for the foreseeable future, on top of that all the EU legislation on workers rights can now be potentially repealed placing jobs at risk.

    Anyone who believes that exit is good idea is living in a dream, we allowed ourselves to be duped on the back of an argument about immigration which was always a massive red herring. I believe this mistake will resonate for years to come.
  • So do The "REMAIN" CL's believe that the Pakistani and Indian,
    1st, 2nd and 3rd generations in Britain who voted for LEAVE,
    Many on TV said that's how they would vote. Are racist.

    The premise of your statement seems to be if you are not white you cannot be racist. Have you any idea what is preached and practiced in the Hindu and Muslim religions? Pakistani and Indian voters are as likely to be motivated by racism as anybody else.
  • edited June 2016

    So do The "REMAIN" CL's believe that the Pakistani and Indian,
    1st, 2nd and 3rd generations in Britain who voted for LEAVE,
    Many on TV said that's how they would vote. Are racist.

    The premise of your statement seems to be if you are not white you cannot be racist. Have you any idea what is preached and practiced in the Hindu and Muslim religions? Pakistani and Indian voters are as likely to be motivated by racism as anybody else.
    Having worked with Hindu and Muslim guys in the past i'm well aware of their polar opposite views. I'm not so sure that some white under 24's do.
    Do they realize how many millions came to this country from the commonwealth post second world war ? long before we joined the common market of 6 in 1973 ( we made it up to 9 along with Denmark and Ireland)
  • LuckyReds said:

    Ohh look the market closed last bight at a week long high. Not exceptional but shows its no disaster. The pound also went back up and readjusted and will continue to do so.

    I get the result didn't go the way many of us wanted it to but let's not make it out to be an economic apocalypse. There is no plague of locusts.

    Some of you may remember that when we chose not to take the euro the pound absolutely plummeted far worse than it did yesterday. And markets went down a similar level. But it was a short readjustment and everything went back to normal in a few days. And that decision turned out to be the right one in the end.

    I am by no means saying leave was the right decision. But so many people have this attitude that they want everything to go horribly wrong immediately just so they can say I told you so. For me as an economist whilst it may not be what I would have wanted I can see possible opportunities arising from this and I want us to take them and make it as much of a success as possible. I want it to work and us all to look back on this in ten years time and say maybe it wasn't so bad.

    Do you really think there are 'so many' people who want things to go wrong? I'm appalled we've voted to leave (I can see it leading to the disintegration of the UK as just one consequence) but I sure as hell hope our economy does well. I'm just praying we don't get Boris as our PM.
    Yes. As a 21 year old a large part of my generation are outraged by the result. My social media has been full of those loving the pound falling and loving that the markets fell just so they could say they were right.

    As I said not what I wanted but it's where we are democracy has spoken and now we have to make the best of it and take whatever opportunities it provides.

    And to those who are claiming it'd not democracy I'm afraid it is..

    At the general election this referendum was a large part of the tory manifesto and people voted for that. They couldn't renege on that promise a second time.

    Then leave wins the referendum by a (small) majority. With a turnout higher than any general election in the last 40 years.
    I hate to say it Canters, but our generation (I'm only a couple of years older than you) really disappoints me at times. I share your views, I really do - and I believe there are more like it.

    I think I first realised it with the Student Protests, and subsequently some of the anti-austerity protests. A lot of our generation seemed to be swayed by popular opinion and when decisions don't go there way, they simply throw their toys out of the pram thinking it can change something. There's no concept of how change actually happens, and of how to campaign successfully, then they act like spoilt brats when the changes they want don't happen. There's no understanding of democracy, and that by definition democracy means that sometimes you're in the minority that didn't get their way.

    We had protests after a general election where they claimed the Tory's weren't democratically elected... despite winning a majority.

    I've seen photos from these "well educated young voters" that the BBC keep banging on about: taking pride in the fact they're mugging off Met TSG officers.. at protests about austerity, not realising the irony that they're taking out their frustrations on some of the people hit most by cuts.

    People talk about the Shy Tory Factor, and I think it's visible in our generation with anyone who doesn't have a popular view. Honestly? I can understand it, if I told people I was a conservative they'd think I was a rich boy, and if I told people I voted out they would think I was a racist bigot..
    Good on you mate. A brave and very encouraging post.
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