Cant believe everyone is higher than mine. Have I missed something? Perhaps I shouldn't be attending investments seminars every week.
The interesting thing about the entries is that the MOST optimistic is forecasting a year on year gain of just 4.3%. Which ought to mean that an awful lot of us will be keeping an awful lot of funds in cash, since overall - especially if you locked up plenty im th NSI 1 year fix - should see you clearing 5% on no risk. Well that’s certainly what I’m doing.
You're forgetting dividends ......
…again 😉
Not so fast, guys. 😉
I still have around 25% of my stuff in the markets, ( plus the SIPP). I just halted the plan to regularly invest a fixed amount in a package of funds, and instead diverted the cash into the high paying savings accounts. The point is that I know 100%. what the latter will pay me. What would be the dividenc yield on a FTSE 100 tracker? Around 3.5% ? So sure if you add that to the capital gain predicted by the most optimistic of us punters, you get near 8%. But most of the forecasts are far less optimistic so its touch and go if even a median forecast wins, as to whether it beats a 5% cash account. If you are both cautious and old ( as I am) i reckon it does make sense to major on the high interest fixes this year at least. It is a very comforting exercise to keep a spreadsheet of those deposit accounts and record the income totting up each month. Much more relaxing than seeking out stocks for income, deciding Direct Line was a good choice and then watching as the stock plunged, and then the board cancells the dividend. WTF? Fortunately I didnt have much, so I flogged it off and used the proceeds to top up on L&G, a company apparently run by adults. But that experience influenced my flight to cash and I dont regret it.
Yes, by the summer I will need to have a re-think as some of those 1 year fixes mature. But that can wait.
S&P500 is where it's at. If I'd have put 100% of my pension into that 18 months ago I'd be sitting on the beach right now
In 18 months my FTSE100 ETF is up just over 11% including dividends which appear to make up around 6.5%.
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
As @Rob7Lee says, its not tax efficient, for both income tax & Capital Gains Tax and its illiquid. Many better places you can put your money & make it work better for you.
Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.
Thanks, ours are mortgage free and it stops the fun prevension officer from blatting the cash on cruises !!
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.
Thanks, ours are mortgage free and it stops the fun prevension officer from blatting the cash on cruises !!
Lol, just make sure you don't leave it to IHT/HMRC, better to let the fun officer spend some if that were to be the case.
Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.
But then again, what do I know...
it’s a conservative approach and works for me in retirement.
Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.
But then again, what do I know...
it’s a conservative approach and works for me in retirement.
What is the I/3rd property invested into ?? Physical Property like a BTL ? Property funds ?
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
As I said above, not very tax efficient & very illiquid. Then you add in the factor of bad tenants and more & more government legislation around EPC's etc. But each to their own I suppose.
Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
I think the thing that people forget when talking about returns, and doesn't tally with people's everyday experience, is that property is often leveraged in a way that most people can't realistically achieve in a securities portfolio. In that situation, comparing a total return on an index to an annualised increase in house prices is comparing apples and oranges.
5, 10 or even 20x leverage is easily possible in property exposure whereas a securities portfolio would require either counterproductive costs (options) or a huge amount of risk (futures). No-one marks you to market in a house, unless you can't pay the interest. And a total loss put option is extremely cheap (buildings insurance).
If it's a cash investment, I agree, property is lousy on a lot of dimensions: liquidity, cost of carry, yield, tax and the increasing regulatory risk.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.
Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.
Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?
Got a drawdown pension set up. Can draw when I want.
Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.
Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?
Got a drawdown pension set up. Can draw when I want.
Good. But if you've not taken the 25% tax-free allowance then you are receiving rental income that is taxable compared to pension income that could be tax free (or at least 25% could be)
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions ISA's Investment Bonds VCT's EIS
I use all of those bar the investment bonds but I also work in the financial services industry, understand the risks and know how to spot the scams. But I understand why people are wary of financial services.
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions ISA's Investment Bonds VCT's EIS
I use all of those bar the investment bonds but I also work in the financial services industry, understand the risks and know how to spot the scams. But I understand why people are wary of financial services.
I'm looking at getting a bit more involved in EIS, what sort of things have you invested in (and how?) if you don't mind me asking?
Be nice if Fed Chief Powell kept his gob shut now and again. (I know he's doing his job but it seems every word he says costs a trillion dollars. I know also that's the market, not him. But still)
Comments
In 18 months my FTSE100 ETF is up just over 11% including dividends which appear to make up around 6.5%.
Does that mean I've won 😄
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.
But then again, what do I know...
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
5, 10 or even 20x leverage is easily possible in property exposure whereas a securities portfolio would require either counterproductive costs (options) or a huge amount of risk (futures). No-one marks you to market in a house, unless you can't pay the interest. And a total loss put option is extremely cheap (buildings insurance).
If it's a cash investment, I agree, property is lousy on a lot of dimensions: liquidity, cost of carry, yield, tax and the increasing regulatory risk.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions
ISA's
Investment Bonds
VCT's
EIS
(I know he's doing his job but it seems every word he says costs a trillion dollars. I know also that's the market, not him. But still)