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Savings and Investments thread
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S&P500 is where it's at. If I'd have put 100% of my pension into that 18 months ago I'd be sitting on the beach right nowPragueAddick said:
Not so fast, guys. 😉TelMc32 said:ê
…again 😉redman said:
You're forgetting dividends ......PragueAddick said:
The interesting thing about the entries is that the MOST optimistic is forecasting a year on year gain of just 4.3%. Which ought to mean that an awful lot of us will be keeping an awful lot of funds in cash, since overall - especially if you locked up plenty im th NSI 1 year fix - should see you clearing 5% on no risk. Well that’s certainly what I’m doing.golfaddick said:Wow.
Cant believe everyone is higher than mine. Have I missed something? Perhaps I shouldn't be attending investments seminars every week.
I still have around 25% of my stuff in the markets, ( plus the SIPP). I just halted the plan to regularly invest a fixed amount in a package of funds, and instead diverted the cash into the high paying savings accounts. The point is that I know 100%. what the latter will pay me. What would be the dividenc yield on a FTSE 100 tracker? Around 3.5% ? So sure if you add that to the capital gain predicted by the most optimistic of us punters, you get near 8%. But most of the forecasts are far less optimistic so its touch and go if even a median forecast wins, as to whether it beats a 5% cash account. If you are both cautious and old ( as I am) i reckon it does make sense to major on the high interest fixes this year at least. It is a very comforting exercise to keep a spreadsheet of those deposit accounts and record the income totting up each month. Much more relaxing than seeking out stocks for income, deciding Direct Line was a good choice and then watching as the stock plunged, and then the board cancells the dividend. WTF? Fortunately I didnt have much, so I flogged it off and used the proceeds to top up on L&G, a company apparently run by adults. But that experience influenced my flight to cash and I dont regret it.Yes, by the summer I will need to have a re-think as some of those 1 year fixes mature. But that can wait.
In 18 months my FTSE100 ETF is up just over 11% including dividends which appear to make up around 6.5%.
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7850 please1
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Last few days to get your predictions in:
Name Level golfaddick 7680 StrikerFirmani 7720 fat man on a moped 7758 Morboe 7768 RalphMilne 7795 Daarrrzzettbum 7801 Covered End 7579 IdleHans 7810 Addickinedi 7824 LargeAddick 7824 Huskaris 7825 CAFCWest 7839 thecat 7850 valleynick66 7863 Addick Addict 7864 Jon_CAFC_ 7864 Lonelynorthernaddick 7870 Bangkokaddick 7878 Housty 7882 oohaahmortimer 7891 Rob7Lee 7891 meldrew66 7901 Hornchurch 7902 Salad 7918 wwaddick 7934 Fortune 82nd Minute 7450 Jamescafc 7950 HardyAddick 7951 PragueAddick 7965 CharltonKerry 7966 blackpool72 7970 Pedro45 7975 aitchyaddick 7978 holyjo 7979 Lenglover 7401 Redman 7988 bobmunro 7989 guinnessaddick 8001 Solidgone 8001 cafcpolo 8011 Thread Killer 8016 WishIdStayedInThe Pub 8047 MrWalker 8077 @TelMc32 8100 CAFC, we hate palace cafc7-6htfc CAFCsayer Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch Exiledin Manchester Gary Poole happy valley Hoof_it_up_to_benty KentAddick Killer Kish MrOneLung No.1 in South London TheGhostofTomHovi 0 -
6999 - thanks!0
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I'm top !!!Rob7Lee said:Last few days to get your predictions in:Name Level golfaddick 7680 StrikerFirmani 7720 fat man on a moped 7758 Morboe 7768 RalphMilne 7795 Daarrrzzettbum 7801 Covered End 7579 IdleHans 7810 Addickinedi 7824 LargeAddick 7824 Huskaris 7825 CAFCWest 7839 thecat 7850 valleynick66 7863 Addick Addict 7864 Jon_CAFC_ 7864 Lonelynorthernaddick 7870 Bangkokaddick 7878 Housty 7882 oohaahmortimer 7891 Rob7Lee 7891 meldrew66 7901 Hornchurch 7902 Salad 7918 wwaddick 7934 Fortune 82nd Minute 7450 Jamescafc 7950 HardyAddick 7951 PragueAddick 7965 CharltonKerry 7966 blackpool72 7970 Pedro45 7975 aitchyaddick 7978 holyjo 7979 Lenglover 7401 Redman 7988 bobmunro 7989 guinnessaddick 8001 Solidgone 8001 cafcpolo 8011 Thread Killer 8016 WishIdStayedInThe Pub 8047 MrWalker 8077 @TelMc32 8100 CAFC, we hate palace cafc7-6htfc CAFCsayer Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch Exiledin Manchester Gary Poole happy valley Hoof_it_up_to_benty KentAddick Killer Kish MrOneLung No.1 in South London TheGhostofTomHovi
Does that mean I've won 😄1 -
Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
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If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.red10 said:Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.0 -
Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.0
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As @Rob7Lee says, its not tax efficient, for both income tax & Capital Gains Tax and its illiquid. Many better places you can put your money & make it work better for you.red10 said:Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.0 -
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.HardyAddick said:Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
But then again, what do I know...0 -
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Thanks, ours are mortgage free and it stops the fun prevension officer from blatting the cash on cruises !!Rob7Lee said:
If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.red10 said:Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.
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Lol, just make sure you don't leave it to IHT/HMRC, better to let the fun officer spend some if that were to be the case.red10 said:
Thanks, ours are mortgage free and it stops the fun prevension officer from blatting the cash on cruises !!Rob7Lee said:
If all goes well BTL can provide OK returns, however when you build in items such as you have experienced (bad tenants), maintenance and ongoing costs etc it's not necessarily the best investment for regular income (will also depend on your tax position). It's also very illiquid but that appears something you like. You will also likely have to factor in capital gains at some point.red10 said:Our savings are in rental property, reasons being. It's not easy to spend the capital and it's a regular income. Obvious risks are the tenant's who have trashed a place in the past at quite some cost but we do think the people we have now are a decent bunch.
Always worth regularly reviewing if it remains the best investment for you.0 -
it’s a conservative approach and works for me in retirement.golfaddick said:
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.HardyAddick said:Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
But then again, what do I know...0 -
What is the I/3rd property invested into ?? Physical Property like a BTL ? Property funds ?HardyAddick said:
it’s a conservative approach and works for me in retirement.golfaddick said:
Hmmmm......not sure I would go with that. Obviously all depends on your attitude to risk but even then Property shouldn't really be anymore than 10% of a portfolio.HardyAddick said:Ignoring your own house, 1/3rd property, shares, cash.
But then again, what do I know...0 -
Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.0
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Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.3 -
As I said above, not very tax efficient & very illiquid. Then you add in the factor of bad tenants and more & more government legislation around EPC's etc. But each to their own I suppose.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.0 -
And I suppose landlords can set their own return by increasing the rental income every few years.0
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Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.0
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I think the thing that people forget when talking about returns, and doesn't tally with people's everyday experience, is that property is often leveraged in a way that most people can't realistically achieve in a securities portfolio. In that situation, comparing a total return on an index to an annualised increase in house prices is comparing apples and oranges.Rob7Lee said:
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
5, 10 or even 20x leverage is easily possible in property exposure whereas a securities portfolio would require either counterproductive costs (options) or a huge amount of risk (futures). No-one marks you to market in a house, unless you can't pay the interest. And a total loss put option is extremely cheap (buildings insurance).
If it's a cash investment, I agree, property is lousy on a lot of dimensions: liquidity, cost of carry, yield, tax and the increasing regulatory risk.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.2 -
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Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?HardyAddick said:Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.0 -
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".WishIdStayedinthePub said:Rob7Lee said:
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions
ISA's
Investment Bonds
VCT's
EIS1 -
Got a drawdown pension set up. Can draw when I want.golfaddick said:
Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?HardyAddick said:Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.0 -
Good. But if you've not taken the 25% tax-free allowance then you are receiving rental income that is taxable compared to pension income that could be tax free (or at least 25% could be)HardyAddick said:
Got a drawdown pension set up. Can draw when I want.golfaddick said:
Please tell me that you've at least taken the Tax-free element from your pension ?HardyAddick said:Everyone takes a different approach. I live comfortably off the rents and not needed to touch the pension. Only issue is the residential houses have been owned for some years. They are not in a Limited Company or in a trust so CGT is an issue if I sell.1 -
I use all of those bar the investment bonds but I also work in the financial services industry, understand the risks and know how to spot the scams. But I understand why people are wary of financial services.golfaddick said:
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".WishIdStayedinthePub said:Rob7Lee said:
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions
ISA's
Investment Bonds
VCT's
EIS1 -
7830 for me Thanks.0
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Thanks everyone, and good luck!
Name Level Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 6999 Lenglover 7401 Fortune 82nd Minute 7450 Covered End 7579 golfaddick 7680 StrikerFirmani 7720 fat man on a moped 7758 Morboe 7768 RalphMilne 7795 Daarrrzzettbum 7801 IdleHans 7810 Addickinedi 7824 LargeAddick 7824 Huskaris 7825 TheGhostofTomHovi 7830 CAFCWest 7839 thecat 7850 valleynick66 7863 Addick Addict 7864 Jon_CAFC_ 7864 Lonelynorthernaddick 7870 Bangkokaddick 7878 Housty 7882 oohaahmortimer 7891 Rob7Lee 7891 meldrew66 7901 Hornchurch 7902 Salad 7918 wwaddick 7934 Jamescafc 7950 HardyAddick 7951 PragueAddick 7965 CharltonKerry 7966 blackpool72 7970 Pedro45 7975 aitchyaddick 7978 holyjo 7979 Redman 7988 bobmunro 7989 guinnessaddick 8001 Solidgone 8001 cafcpolo 8011 Thread Killer 8016 WishIdStayedInThe Pub 8047 MrWalker 8077 @TelMc32 8100
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I'm looking at getting a bit more involved in EIS, what sort of things have you invested in (and how?) if you don't mind me asking?WishIdStayedinthePub said:
I use all of those bar the investment bonds but I also work in the financial services industry, understand the risks and know how to spot the scams. But I understand why people are wary of financial services.golfaddick said:
I dont think you can blame the financial services industry for that. Maybe blame them for various mis-selling scandals that have made the public wary of the different schemes that are available. Funny thing is, since I first bought my first property in 1988 I've seen 3 periods of negative equity in the housing market but still the general public think that property is "as safe as houses".WishIdStayedinthePub said:Rob7Lee said:
Whilst it may not be the recommended asset diversification, you are by no means alone, and if you are comfortable then that's all that matters even if technically it isn't the greatest investment. I'd watch what's coming down the line though, can only think BTL will remain an easy target for any incoming government. You could see rent controls and potentially an even worsening tax position.HardyAddick said:Direct property with rental income. The shares element is in pensions/ISAs and the cash is in ISAs where possible.
The friendly society where I am as a Trustee have done very very well out of property, far exceeded any other share investment by some margin due to in the main capital gain, but we aren't subject to tax (bar stamp duty if buying) which makes a big difference.
I still have found over the past x number of years that my pension is and has been far and away the best investment, on day 1 I'm up 66% compared to any other investment simply due to the tax relief. So every £60 in immediately becomes £100, in fact since I changed job a few years back I'm in effect getting 62% tax relief on most of my contributions so £38 in of my net money becomes £100! It's simply impossible to beat that return.
But it is also a verdict on the financial services industry's long and ignoble track record in conning people that a physical asset seems much more secure to a lot of people.
Just look at the different tax efficient schemes out there -
Pensions
ISA's
Investment Bonds
VCT's
EIS0 -
Be nice if Fed Chief Powell kept his gob shut now and again.
(I know he's doing his job but it seems every word he says costs a trillion dollars. I know also that's the market, not him. But still)1 -
£50 for me, £200 for the missus, £25 for my Mum.0
