Seems not to be a problem for Females elite athletes in team sports: The England Hockey Captain Kate Richardson-Walsh and team mate Helen are married. The England football team have Casey Stoney, who has twins with her female partner. Other players in the England woman team just want the focus to be on their football abilities not their sexual Orientation.
I'd imagine it's not a problem because thousands of people don't watch their games every week
A different type of atmosphere too.
The cricketer Steven Davies came out, and as far as I know has had only positive reactions from fans and fellow players. Other than for his period playing for the hated Surrey of course!
Commentators and managers could amend their football vocabulary to make gay players feel more comfortable. Every time I hear a full back being denigrated for pumping it up the flank I cry a little at the needless hurt it must cause. When you compare it to the universal praise players get for sticking it in the box it's obvious that the sport is homophobic to the core.
I don't think there should be pressure for an individual to "come out" unless they really want to make that decision for their own reasons.
I'm sure a gay or lesbian person has friends and family they trust in regards to private life issues. People they have never met, do not need to know whether or not they are gay.
If a charlton player came out as gay then I would find it surprising if he didn't have the necessary support from his team mates.
That "support" being, don't treat him any differently as to how you did before and after he told you that piece of information.
Consider him brave and then move on like normal.
Subjects like this are made a huge deal out of.
What it mostly does is show up the people that would struggle to accept a fellow team mate being gay or a fanbase turning their back on a club because a gay person plays for them.
It just highlights the thick stupid people.
It's unfair on kids. Narrow minded people can sometimes be persuasive role models for younger people.
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England, But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out. the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE. Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England, But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out. the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE. Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
Sad but True.
What I don't understand with that is, why would a gay person let alone player, want to go and work in a country like that, especially after earning a decent living in western Europe. It would be a bit fickle if you ask me, coz they won't change opinion over there, not in our life times anyway
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England, But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out. the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE. Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
Sad but True.
That said, when the takeover occurred City had Tal Ben Haim on their books, and even though the UAE do not acknowledge Israel as a country, someone let it be known that should City do promotional events in UAE Ben Haim would be allowed access. To me it feels like The City Group are businessmen first and everything else second.
That said, your larger point is taken.
I'm finishing up something for work I've been a slave to for two weeks but I'll come back and post more on this. We have an openly out player here in the States, Robbie Rodgers, and from what I can tell it's not a big deal. We have loads of professional out women footballers, and it's very much not a big deal in the women's game (though I think gender roles and perceptions of homosexuality amongst different genders play a role there).
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England, But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out. the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE. Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
Sad but True.
What I don't understand with that is, why would a gay person let alone player, want to go and work in a country like that, especially after earning a decent living in western Europe. It would be a bit fickle if you ask me, coz they won't change opinion over there, not in our life times anyway
I tend to agree with that point, but then you did get Christopher Samba go to Russia to play in 2013 from Blackburn when the Russian attitude to black players was on a par with England 40 odd years ago and it was no surprise when playing for Anzhi he had Bananas thrown at him. The money must of been good out there because after a short spell back at QPR he then had a season and a half at Dynamo Moscow; wisely not taking his family with him this time.
As the only person on Charlton life to have cone out as I did last year as an intersex (?) I don't understand homophobia and how it can cause such massive offence. If you are a gay bloke, you like having blokes put there willy up your bum.. It must smell of poo. That's what you like. Its your favourite thing, its what you think about and dream of.
Despite doing that, you then upset about being called a cissy? That really blows my mind, surely if you can handle the first thing, you should be able to handle anything. I'll never be able to understand the mechanics of homophobia.
As the only person on Charlton life to have cone out as I did last year as an intersex (?) I don't understand homophobia and how it can cause such massive offence. If you are a gay bloke, you like having blokes put there willy up your bum.. It must smell of poo. That's what you like. Its your favourite thing, its what you think about and dream of.
Despite doing that, you then upset about being called a cissy? That really blows my mind, surely if you can handle the first thing, you should be able to handle anything. I'll never be able to understandthe mechanics of homophobia.why people get offended when you question their right to live their life and love who they love despite the fact that it has nothing to do with you because of lazy prejudice because I am incapable of basic human empathy.
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England, But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out. the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE. Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
Sad but True.
Robbie Rodgers
Yeah, but who?
*stands back, puts full chainmail suit on and awaits the sh*tstorm*
As the only person on Charlton life to have cone out as I did last year as an intersex (?) I don't understand homophobia and how it can cause such massive offence. If you are a gay bloke, you like having blokes put there willy up your bum.. It must smell of poo. That's what you like. Its your favourite thing, its what you think about and dream of.
Despite doing that, you then upset about being called a cissy? That really blows my mind, surely if you can handle the first thing, you should be able to handle anything. I'll never be able to understand the mechanics of homophobia.
As the only person on Charlton life to have cone out as I did last year as an intersex (?) I don't understand homophobia and how it can cause such massive offence. If you are a gay bloke, you like having blokes put there willy up your bum.. It must smell of poo. That's what you like. Its your favourite thing, its what you think about and dream of.
Despite doing that, you then upset about being called a cissy? That really blows my mind, surely if you can handle the first thing, you should be able to handle anything. I'll never be able to understand the mechanics of homophobia.
As the only person on Charlton life to have cone out as I did last year as an intersex (?) I don't understand homophobia and how it can cause such massive offence. If you are a gay bloke, you like having blokes put there willy up your bum.. It must smell of poo. That's what you like. Its your favourite thing, its what you think about and dream of.
Despite doing that, you then upset about being called a cissy? That really blows my mind, surely if you can handle the first thing, you should be able to handle anything. I'll never be able to understand the mechanics of homophobia.
Amazing.
How can you come out as "intersex" and not know what it means? Fucking moron.
Interesting that a lot of posters are commenting on the abuse that opposition fans would/might give a gay Charlton player.
I know we, as a set of supporters, might assume that we are perhaps more forward thinking and enlightened than those at many other clubs but is that truly and always the case? It's far, far better than in the past and as a club we have led the way on many occasions but we have all heard supporters make racist remarks, perhaps even chants/songs. Even within the last few years if we are honest.
It's an assumption I know but those that are happy to sing offensive songs about Kevin Lisbie or in praise of Stephen Lawrence's killers are hardly likely create a welcoming environment for a gay player of our own OR the opposition's. This might be a relatively small and hopefully declining section of our support but it's still there, even at a club like ours. Many more supporters are still prepared to right off pejorative chants about Brighton fans being homosexual as 'banter' too.
I truly believe that CAFC, of all clubs, would support and provide a positive environment for a gay player but let's not kid ourself that we wouldn't have our own 8%'ers and this would only be an issue with opposition fans.
Please tell me this isn't true. The bit about Stephen Lawrence - can't get bold to work
Anyway, I read this thread with interest, and everyone seems to be of the consensus "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as a cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a VERY difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that kind of demonstrates a massive ignorance of the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless - much like Arsenetatters, I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
Anyway, I read this thread with interest, and everyone seems to be of the consensus "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as a cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a VERY difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that kind of demonstrates a massive ignorance of the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless - much like Arsenetatters, I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
(rant over)
You absolutely do not sound like a softy liberal - or if you do then being a softy liberal is consequently no bad thing.
Comments
The cricketer Steven Davies came out, and as far as I know has had only positive reactions from fans and fellow players. Other than for his period playing for the hated Surrey of course!
It's 2016 FFS some people are gay - get over it.
Although I do sometimes get food envy
I'm sure a gay or lesbian person has friends and family they trust in regards to private life issues.
People they have never met, do not need to know whether or not they are gay.
If a charlton player came out as gay then I would find it surprising if he didn't have the necessary support from his team mates.
That "support" being, don't treat him any differently as to how you did before and after he told you that piece of information.
Consider him brave and then move on like normal.
Subjects like this are made a huge deal out of.
What it mostly does is show up the people that would struggle to accept a fellow team mate being gay or a fanbase turning their back on a club because a gay person plays for them.
It just highlights the thick stupid people.
It's unfair on kids. Narrow minded people can sometimes be persuasive role models for younger people.
Then the general attitude still has problems.
He said the problem wouldn't be the reaction in England,
But if any of the players said they were Gay, the chances of getting employment in Arabic Countries or certain eastern European countries would be a non starter later in their career.
A point i would like to make is, say a Man city player came out.
the owner of Man city is the Billionaire; Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, know as Shikh Mansour, who also doubles up as the deputy Prime minister of the United Arab Emirates.
Homosexuality is illegal: homosexuality is a capital offense in the UAE.
Being stoned has a different meaning in the UAE.
It isn't just what immature team mates or the moronic fans of other clubs will shout.
Saudi Arabia and the UAE invest so much money in the UK they have Carte Blanche to get away with Murder.
Sad but True.
No pun intended
That said, your larger point is taken.
I'm finishing up something for work I've been a slave to for two weeks but I'll come back and post more on this. We have an openly out player here in the States, Robbie Rodgers, and from what I can tell it's not a big deal. We have loads of professional out women footballers, and it's very much not a big deal in the women's game (though I think gender roles and perceptions of homosexuality amongst different genders play a role there).
*stands back, puts full chainmail suit on and awaits the sh*tstorm*
Take That will be pissed off that they can't use it in their new single now.
How can you come out as "intersex" and not know what it means? Fucking moron.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as a cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a VERY difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that kind of demonstrates a massive ignorance of the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless - much like Arsenetatters, I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
(rant over)
One of if not the best post on the thread.