Glad that someone has gone to the trouble to get the answers that some of us all knew but probably not to the extreme at which it has now been presented.. Credit also to the professionalism of the contributors to it for keeping a lid on this for as long as they did.
As for Duchatelet. An absolute fruit cake of a man! Meire spouts on about how he is too busy with his other business interests to get too hands on is a complete fallacy. The man is completely obsessed with this weird football movement. It is now abundantly clear that he can have no time for anything else. From scouts recruited from the local polytechnic to playing styles and formations dreamed up on 'football manager'. Has there ever been a more dangerous and unhinged man in the game? He's right up there.
I won't go on about Richard Murray.I've made my feelings clear about him in the past. But shame on the man for overseeing this. Disgraceful. We can only hope the Belgian see's some sort of sense and abandons this ego trip.
I have to say,after this insight into his crazy mind, I think it won't be any time soon.
Astounding and outstanding from Jimmy Stone. I tip my hat to you sir.
As a fan base we truly have an incredible set of people taking the fight to Duchatelet and his team. As has been alluded to several times before if only they had got the fans on side in the first instance they would have had a powerful resource.
No matter we are where we are and this podcast only steels my resolve to help out this cancer from the club.
Don't lie about it anyway. Meire has basically called Powell a liar by denying his account was true. Duchatelet has accused the man of doing something he hasn't done which questions his deserved reputation of honesty. If you look outside the ground there is a picture of the great man - whatever your views of his managerial skills, this disrespect of a Charlton hero cannot be acceptable.
We have witnessed the disrespect a releative of Jimmy Seed has received from representatives of the club. We have also seen Meire divulge that our man applied for the managers job after Peeters was sacked! Our man FFS! And why divulge it you evil cow! This is so disrespectful it is unreal. We have been disrespected and patronised at every turn to boot.
And if you add the slander against our best CEO form our worst, and she wasn't without tough recent competition for that crown, well it just isn't acceptable. I'm not going to go to the cup game as planned. I am not putting money in the pockets of those lying scumbags!
Would somebody please explain what this means ? Inbox me if needbe Thanks
Just after Peeters was sacked, she told a fan on cam that our man (Curbishley) had applied for the managers job. It was dismissive, unprofessional and disrespectful and I haven't forgiven her for it. Nor forgotten it.
And the big issue here is not so much that the owner interfered - He won't be the first or last owner to do that. As misguided as that is. But to deny it which suggests Powell is a liar is as low as you get. Meire has no shame when she tells a lie but we know beyond any reasonable doubt they are lies.
Thanks Muttley, I wasn't aware of that ( I don't get time to read all that I would like to unfortunately). Unprofessional and disrespectful indeed but why should we expect anything else from this vile woman ?
There is very little information on his early years in his Wikipedia page, beyond that he founded Melexis in 1990 and 'became a multimillionaire'. It doesn't give any clue as to how much capital he actually started with.
Given the utter shambles witnessed over the last couple of years, I have been wondering exactly how much of his wealth has been self made. There is something of the Trump about him (Beyond also having a comical hairpiece).
Wiki is deliberately vague on his early life and it's near impossible to find anything anywhere.
The best I can find is this snippet from WSC in March 2014:
'One of the richest men in Belgium, with a personal fortune estimated at €750m, Duchâtelet owns companies specialising in the manufacture of semiconductors and integrated circuits. Bilingual, with a Walloon father and Flemish mother, Duchâtelet has been involved in politics – he formed liberal party Vivant in 1997 – and entered football in 2002 when he bought Belgian club Sint-Truiden.'
'Onclin says of Duchâtelet that "he may not bring success in terms of trophies but he won't leave a club for dead when he's gone". Sint-Truiden were in debt when he took charge and now they have a state-of-the-art stadium, with a hotel and shopping outlets. The club is, however, in the second division. Duchâtelet is unlikely to let one of his operating units fail but never puts football success at the forefront of his thinking.'
Just like to add my thanks to Jimmy, and the other people behind this very well produced podcast. I have long gone past the stage of outrage and confusion into trying to understand the 'vision' that this current regime seem to inflicting on what to me, and I guess several other thousand fans as 'our club'. I am going to the game tommorow with my two sons and I wonder how many more times I will do this, as I did this with my father?. I just pray that this regime goes and I can go with my grandchildren in the future.
Excellent in-depth journalism with some truly remarkable confirmations, if not by now, revelations. Apologies if it's been said elsewhere but if Karl Robinson can spare an hour, this will really explain what the protests are all about, and without Meire interfering and stage-managing anything. Well done all involved.
Just listened to the first two episodes and looking forward to the next ones. It's great that we have this impeccably recorded documentary of the ongoing disaster that is CAFC. Thanks and congratulations to those involved in making the series.
I'm angry and very sad that a club which had such a model role as a unified and successful outfit in the recent past has been reduced in these ways and more to such a hollowed out shell of its former self.
If the saga wasn't so tragic to the wellbeing of our favourite club it would have all the ingredients of a great comic sit-com featuring a league football club and all the ways to set about ruining it......except the storey line would be so improbable and the network characters so improbably incompetent that the audience might find it OTT even in that context.
As I said before, I think that RD did not compose these emails, as he would not have had enough football knowledge to do so, saying that, I think they were probably written by TD (who read these football tactics in one of his magazines, and it sounded good), and forwarded by RD. This is why we have the emails, if RD knew what he was talking about he would have met with CP (as CP said he wanted to do but RD would not), or RD would have telephoned him and spoke to him. Any intelligent person would not put things in an email that could come back and bite him in the bum, (see Clinton).
What will be interesting to appreciate is whether the emails referenced here are repeated / issued in a similar way to other managers since Powell. And most importantly if Slade had any such experience I.e. Is RD apparently directly meddling or not. Suspect though we won't hear from Slade for sometime on the assumption he may still be on gardening leave / negotiating his exit settlement.
It's probably fair to imagine that in the past the likes of Varney, Murray and Curbishley discussed team selections too albeit with no overt interference and which is importantly the big difference. I am sure many chairman / owners / CEO's all offer their football opinions too throughout the leagues but presumably its more often seen by managers as being the price to pay to humour the money men and 'manage upwards'.
To play Devils Advocate maybe RD imagines he is just asking for an opinion / exploiting his position as the owner to 'chat' football and doing that by email isn't the same as a one on one conversation BUT that would be a very kind interpretation.
If other emails do emerge as suggested by others do exist, and particularly if they are far more current, that will be even more revealing of how RD, as a modern day owner, expects to operate notwithstanding the accepted norms in football.
The language barrier / lost in translation argument might just might allow the tone of the emails to be seen as slightly less inflammatory but Karl Robinson is clearly going to have to find a way of working with RD and KM that he can be comfortable with and presumably he hadn't anticipated being quite the way it seems to have been for Powell at least.
Roland was on the phone to Karel Fraeye when he was in charge telling him what subs to make .....Source (from someone in the dressing room)
Still if he hasn't interfered in Karl Robinsons team selection and tactics , in his long reign so far, it proves that they are learning from their previous mistakes and we should all give them a chance
who's that in the corner hanging out the back of my mrs , oh he's pulled out and walked away i'll just pretend it never happened
Roland was on the phone to Karel Fraeye when he was in charge telling him what subs to make .....Source (from someone in the dressing room)
Still if he hasn't interfered in Karl Robinsons team selection and tactics , in his long reign so far, it proves that they are learning from their previous mistakes and we should all give them a chance
who's that in the corner hanging out the back of my mrs , oh he's pulled out and walked away i'll just pretend it never happened
That is all the more impressive now we know that he probabaly wasn't watching the match but stuffing his face in a bistro at the time.
I think some are believing Roland's spin that his emails were merely suggestions rather than instructions.
Might have been plausible except for the fact that, once CP had decided to play Alnwick ahead of Thuram, Alnwick rapidly had his contract torn up leaving CP with no choice whatsoever. That is the action of an owner who demanded compliance, not just consideration.
I think some are believing Roland's spin that his emails were merely suggestions rather than instructions.
Might have been plausible except for the fact that, once CP had decided to play Alnwick ahead of Thuram, Alnwick rapidly had his contract torn up leaving CP with no choice whatsoever. That is the action of an owner who demanded compliance, not just consideration.
When I see your posts now, I keep thinking it's you in the party hat, I think you should change your pic to avoid confusion, although it'd be good to see that guy in a Roland Out hoody
I think some are believing Roland's spin that his emails were merely suggestions rather than instructions.
Might have been plausible except for the fact that, once CP had decided to play Alnwick ahead of Thuram, Alnwick rapidly had his contract torn up leaving CP with no choice whatsoever. That is the action of an owner who demanded compliance, not just consideration.
When I see your posts now, I keep thinking it's you in the party hat, I think you should change your pic to avoid confusion, although it'd be good to see that guy in a Roland Out hoody
Aaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!
Photo will be changed as immediately as my ageing fingers can manage it
Edit - Done. I now look more like Tony K. Need more Oil of Ulay
Rednic: "I tore up the paper of Duchatelet with the team composition"
KS Published Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h03 - Updated Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h10
Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a controversy: he wanted to influence the choices of his coach in Charlton. Did this also happen to the Standard?
Following the disclosure of mails sent to his former coach in Charlton (Chris Powell), Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a new controversy in England. These emails dating from January 2014 , Duchâtelet first asked his coach why Yohann Thuram, then on loan from Standard, is on the bench. Soon after, Thuram was the incumbent. In another mail, Roland Duchâtelet proposes to his coach to try a tactic in 4-4-2 in diamond and even gives his composition of team.
We surveyed the former coaches of the Standard (note that José Riga did not want to speak) to see if they were faced with the same problem.
Guy Luzon [Standard May 12 - Oct 14; Charlton Jan - Oct 15]: "Everywhere I went, I always took all sporting decisions As president, it is normal that sometimes demand accounts, but he never imposed anything.."
Ivan Vukomanovic [Temporary T1 Standard Oct 14 - Feb 15]: "Whether as T2 or T1, I never received any mail or text message to that effect Duchâtelet Roland left me free in my choices In my early days of.. T1 , He even said to me: 'I see that it works well, so continue in your own way. ''
Mircea Rednic [Standard Oct 12 - May? 13]: "When I signed in 2012, three days before the game against Genk, he handed me a paper I asked him what it was and have unfolded I discovered a composition. He told me it was to help me because I did not know the team well, and I said, 'President, you only put me one attacker while I follow a system with two points'. I then ripped up the paper. Later, he never told me what to do. "
[Wiki says: Rednic was sacked at the end of the season after the emphatic 7–1 aggregate win over Gent in the play-off for Europa League qualification. He explicitly attributed his sacking to a conflict between him and club's chairman Roland Duchâtelet who wanted a "marionette" instead of a coach.]
Rednic: "I tore up the paper of Duchatelet with the team composition"
KS Published Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h03 - Updated Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h10
Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a controversy: he wanted to influence the choices of his coach in Charlton. Did this also happen to the Standard?
Following the disclosure of mails sent to his former coach in Charlton (Chris Powell), Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a new controversy in England. These emails dating from January 2014 , Duchâtelet first asked his coach why Yohann Thuram, then on loan from Standard, is on the bench. Soon after, Thuram was the incumbent. In another mail, Roland Duchâtelet proposes to his coach to try a tactic in 4-4-2 in diamond and even gives his composition of team.
We surveyed the former coaches of the Standard (note that José Riga did not want to speak) to see if they were faced with the same problem.
Guy Luzon [Standard May 12 - Oct 14; Charlton Jan - Oct 15]: "Everywhere I went, I always took all sporting decisions As president, it is normal that sometimes demand accounts, but he never imposed anything.."
Ivan Vukomanovic [Temporary T1 Standard Oct 14 - Feb 15]: "Whether as T2 or T1, I never received any mail or text message to that effect Duchâtelet Roland left me free in my choices In my early days of.. T1 , He even said to me: 'I see that it works well, so continue in your own way. ''
Mircea Rednic [Standard Oct 12 - May? 13]: "When I signed in 2012, three days before the game against Genk, he handed me a paper I asked him what it was and have unfolded I discovered a composition. He told me it was to help me because I did not know the team well, and I said, 'President, you only put me one attacker while I follow a system with two points'. I then ripped up the paper. Later, he never told me what to do. "
[Wiki says: Rednic was sacked at the end of the season after the emphatic 7–1 aggregate win over Gent in the play-off for Europa League qualification. He explicitly attributed his sacking to a conflict between him and club's chairman Roland Duchâtelet who wanted a "marionette" instead of a coach.]
Rednic might have a good story, would be great if the GTKTN guys could get hold of him to see if he has anything to contribute.
New era. It's all made up. Give the new man a chance. Get behind the team. I just want to watch the football. The protests have died. It's all a few bitter ex-employees. It's his money so he can do what he wants. All true fans are behind the owner. There are no other buyers waiting. Katrien works very hard.
Rednic: "I tore up the paper of Duchatelet with the team composition"
KS Published Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h03 - Updated Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h10
Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a controversy: he wanted to influence the choices of his coach in Charlton. Did this also happen to the Standard?
Following the disclosure of mails sent to his former coach in Charlton (Chris Powell), Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a new controversy in England. These emails dating from January 2014 , Duchâtelet first asked his coach why Yohann Thuram, then on loan from Standard, is on the bench. Soon after, Thuram was the incumbent. In another mail, Roland Duchâtelet proposes to his coach to try a tactic in 4-4-2 in diamond and even gives his composition of team.
We surveyed the former coaches of the Standard (note that José Riga did not want to speak) to see if they were faced with the same problem.
Guy Luzon [Standard May 12 - Oct 14; Charlton Jan - Oct 15]: "Everywhere I went, I always took all sporting decisions As president, it is normal that sometimes demand accounts, but he never imposed anything.."
Ivan Vukomanovic [Temporary T1 Standard Oct 14 - Feb 15]: "Whether as T2 or T1, I never received any mail or text message to that effect Duchâtelet Roland left me free in my choices In my early days of.. T1 , He even said to me: 'I see that it works well, so continue in your own way. ''
Mircea Rednic [Standard Oct 12 - May? 13]: "When I signed in 2012, three days before the game against Genk, he handed me a paper I asked him what it was and have unfolded I discovered a composition. He told me it was to help me because I did not know the team well, and I said, 'President, you only put me one attacker while I follow a system with two points'. I then ripped up the paper. Later, he never told me what to do. "
[Wiki says: Rednic was sacked at the end of the season after the emphatic 7–1 aggregate win over Gent in the play-off for Europa League qualification. He explicitly attributed his sacking to a conflict between him and club's chairman Roland Duchâtelet who wanted a "marionette" instead of a coach.]
Rednic might have a good story, would be great if the GTKTN guys could get hold of him to see if he has anything to contribute.
Vukomanovic didn't part with RD on good terms, either. He was supposed to be caretaker until the end of the season, following on from a poor start to the season under Luzon and the riot that forced RD to scurry away early. Although Vuko's Europa League results were disappointing, he put their Pro League season back on track with 28 pts from 14 games (which explains why RD didn't feel the need to write him out any team sheets).
Then he was abruptly demoted back to assistant coach to make way for the second coming of Jose Riga in Feb 15. He quit rather than accept the demotion and was still sounding off about it in the Belgian media months afterwards.
Although RD may not have explained 4-4-2 double 6 to him, the stated reason for demoting him was that RD didn't like his style of football. We've seen that form of words more than once and I translate it as RD didn't trust them.
...Otoh, Vuko's latest quote reads like he may have got over it. He is now manager (or head coach) of Slovan Bratislava.
How this sorry saga compares to Jimmy Seed's era. As Secretary Manager he had total control over the club. The only interference he ever received from the Glickstens was the occasional 'No', when asking for funds to buy a player. The idea that they would foist players on him would have been inconceivable. I'm not sure they knew enough about tactics or formations to get involved in that area, even if they'd wanted to.
My heart goes out to anyone managing a club under Duchatelet, even if it could be argued they know what they're letting themselves in for. It must be horrendous having that feeling that someone's looking over your shoulder the whole time (unless they're having lunch of course).
I think some are believing Roland's spin that his emails were merely suggestions rather than instructions.
Might have been plausible except for the fact that, once CP had decided to play Alnwick ahead of Thuram, Alnwick rapidly had his contract torn up leaving CP with no choice whatsoever. That is the action of an owner who demanded compliance, not just consideration.
When I see your posts now, I keep thinking it's you in the party hat, I think you should change your pic to avoid confusion, although it'd be good to see that guy in a Roland Out hoody
Aaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!
Photo will be changed as immediately as my ageing fingers can manage it
Edit - Done. I now look more like Tony K. Need more Oil of Ulay
Comments
Glad that someone has gone to the trouble to get the answers that some of us all knew but probably not to the extreme at which it has now been presented..
Credit also to the professionalism of the contributors to it for keeping a lid on this for as long as they did.
As for Duchatelet. An absolute fruit cake of a man!
Meire spouts on about how he is too busy with his other business interests to get too hands on is a complete fallacy.
The man is completely obsessed with this weird football movement. It is now abundantly clear that he can have no time for anything else.
From scouts recruited from the local polytechnic to playing styles and formations dreamed up on 'football manager'. Has there ever been a more dangerous and unhinged man in the game? He's right up there.
I won't go on about Richard Murray.I've made my feelings clear about him in the past. But shame on the man for overseeing this. Disgraceful.
We can only hope the Belgian see's some sort of sense and abandons this ego trip.
I have to say,after this insight into his crazy mind, I think it won't be any time soon.
As a fan base we truly have an incredible set of people taking the fight to Duchatelet and his team. As has been alluded to several times before if only they had got the fans on side in the first instance they would have had a powerful resource.
No matter we are where we are and this podcast only steels my resolve to help out this cancer from the club.
The best I can find is this snippet from WSC in March 2014:
'One of the richest men in Belgium, with a personal fortune estimated at €750m, Duchâtelet owns companies specialising in the manufacture of semiconductors and integrated circuits. Bilingual, with a Walloon father and Flemish mother, Duchâtelet has been involved in politics – he formed liberal party Vivant in 1997 – and entered football in 2002 when he bought Belgian club Sint-Truiden.'
http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/11302-standard-practices
From the same piece:
'Onclin says of Duchâtelet that "he may not bring success in terms of trophies but he won't leave a club for dead when he's gone". Sint-Truiden were in debt when he took charge and now they have a state-of-the-art stadium, with a hotel and shopping outlets. The club is, however, in the second division. Duchâtelet is unlikely to let one of his operating units fail but never puts football success at the forefront of his thinking.'
I just pray that this regime goes and I can go with my grandchildren in the future.
I'm angry and very sad that a club which had such a model role as a unified and successful outfit in the recent past has been reduced in these ways and more to such a hollowed out shell of its former self.
If the saga wasn't so tragic to the wellbeing of our favourite club it would have all the ingredients of a great comic sit-com featuring a league football club and all the ways to set about ruining it......except the storey line would be so improbable and the network characters so improbably incompetent that the audience might find it OTT even in that context.
If he had rated Yann and Stephens a bit higher on Football Manager, then Driesen wouldn't have told Roland to get rid.
However, the one thing that I have learned, well, not learned, just had validated, is that SCP is an absolute gentleman and total professional.
It's probably fair to imagine that in the past the likes of Varney, Murray and Curbishley discussed team selections too albeit with no overt interference and which is importantly the big difference. I am sure many chairman / owners / CEO's all offer their football opinions too throughout the leagues but presumably its more often seen by managers as being the price to pay to humour the money men and 'manage upwards'.
To play Devils Advocate maybe RD imagines he is just asking for an opinion / exploiting his position as the owner to 'chat' football and doing that by email isn't the same as a one on one conversation BUT that would be a very kind interpretation.
If other emails do emerge as suggested by others do exist, and particularly if they are far more current, that will be even more revealing of how RD, as a modern day owner, expects to operate notwithstanding the accepted norms in football.
The language barrier / lost in translation argument might just might allow the tone of the emails to be seen as slightly less inflammatory but Karl Robinson is clearly going to have to find a way of working with RD and KM that he can be comfortable with and presumably he hadn't anticipated being quite the way it seems to have been for Powell at least.
Still if he hasn't interfered in Karl Robinsons team selection and tactics , in his long reign so far, it proves that they are learning from their previous mistakes and we should all give them a chance
who's that in the corner hanging out the back of my mrs , oh he's pulled out and walked away i'll just pretend it never happened
Might have been plausible except for the fact that, once CP had decided to play Alnwick ahead of Thuram, Alnwick rapidly had his contract torn up leaving CP with no choice whatsoever. That is the action of an owner who demanded compliance, not just consideration.
Photo will be changed as immediately as my ageing fingers can manage it
Edit - Done. I now look more like Tony K. Need more Oil of Ulay
KS Published Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h03 - Updated Friday 02 December 2016 at 10h10
Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a controversy: he wanted to influence the choices of his coach in Charlton. Did this also happen to the Standard?
Following the disclosure of mails sent to his former coach in Charlton (Chris Powell), Roland Duchâtelet is at the heart of a new controversy in England. These emails dating from January 2014 , Duchâtelet first asked his coach why Yohann Thuram, then on loan from Standard, is on the bench. Soon after, Thuram was the incumbent. In another mail, Roland Duchâtelet proposes to his coach to try a tactic in 4-4-2 in diamond and even gives his composition of team.
We surveyed the former coaches of the Standard (note that José Riga did not want to speak) to see if they were faced with the same problem.
Guy Luzon [Standard May 12 - Oct 14; Charlton Jan - Oct 15]: "Everywhere I went, I always took all sporting decisions As president, it is normal that sometimes demand accounts, but he never imposed anything.."
Ivan Vukomanovic [Temporary T1 Standard Oct 14 - Feb 15]: "Whether as T2 or T1, I never received any mail or text message to that effect Duchâtelet Roland left me free in my choices In my early days of.. T1 , He even said to me: 'I see that it works well, so continue in your own way. ''
Mircea Rednic [Standard Oct 12 - May? 13]: "When I signed in 2012, three days before the game against Genk, he handed me a paper I asked him what it was and have unfolded I discovered a composition. He told me it was to help me because I did not know the team well, and I said, 'President, you only put me one attacker while I follow a system with two points'. I then ripped up the paper. Later, he never told me what to do. "
http://www.dhnet.be/sports/football/division-1a/standard/rednic-j-ai-dechire-le-papier-de-duchatelet-avec-la-composition-58405c12cd707c9b300e9743
---
[Wiki says: Rednic was sacked at the end of the season after the emphatic 7–1 aggregate win over Gent in the play-off for Europa League qualification. He explicitly attributed his sacking to a conflict between him and club's chairman Roland Duchâtelet who wanted a "marionette" instead of a coach.]
Spot the similarity?
Total respect to Jimmy for getting those interviews.
Can't wait for the next episode.
We've got some proper knobhead fans.
Then he was abruptly demoted back to assistant coach to make way for the second coming of Jose Riga in Feb 15. He quit rather than accept the demotion and was still sounding off about it in the Belgian media months afterwards.
Although RD may not have explained 4-4-2 double 6 to him, the stated reason for demoting him was that RD didn't like his style of football. We've seen that form of words more than once and I translate it as RD didn't trust them.
...Otoh, Vuko's latest quote reads like he may have got over it. He is now manager (or head coach) of Slovan Bratislava.
The idea that they would foist players on him would have been inconceivable. I'm not sure they knew enough about tactics or formations to get involved in that area, even if they'd wanted to.
My heart goes out to anyone managing a club under Duchatelet, even if it could be argued they know what they're letting themselves in for. It must be horrendous having that feeling that someone's looking over your shoulder the whole time (unless they're having lunch of course).