Again I think that's unfair. He's said the money is there but - and this is a quote we've heard from many a manager over the years - other clubs want to charge us more because they think they can. If Roland doesn't give him the requisite money then that's not Robinson's fault.
It's only detracting from the game because you're letting it bother you. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, so the result remains untarnished.
As for re-appraisal thing. I hadn't realised you had completed an initial appraisal so early on. I think it's a shame he's been judged so harshly by supporters who have previously been very reasonable toward new managers. To be expected to some degree after the experience of Roland, but a shame nonetheless.
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Again I think that's unfair. He's said the money is there but - and this is a quote we've heard from many a manager over the years - other clubs want to charge us more because they think they can. If Roland doesn't give him the requisite money then that's not Robinson's fault.
It's only detracting from the game because you're letting it bother you. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, so the result remains untarnished.
As for re-appraisal thing. I hadn't realised you had completed an initial appraisal so early on. I think it's a shame he's been judged so harshly by supporters who have previously been very reasonable toward new managers. To be expected to some degree after the experience of Roland, but a shame nonetheless.
I've thought he's done well from the off, considering everything. One or two bad performances, but what do you expect? The main thing is that he's given the team energy and has spotted weaknesses (Ajose, Ulvestad maybe, JJ [sorry]) and has improved some (Crofts, Aribo, Konsa [by moving him forward]). I don't care if he talks too much, or goes off on one from time to time. Really doesn't matter to me at all.
I wanted to give him space to see what he could do, and so far, the changes are positive. The signings are proving effective, the results have turned around. If hemakes a comment about inflated prices, maybe that's because they are inflated. Regime or no regime, he'd get pelters for buying expensive flops (like Ajose ;-) ). I really see little to criticise here.
Again I think that's unfair. He's said the money is there but - and this is a quote we've heard from many a manager over the years - other clubs want to charge us more because they think they can. If Roland doesn't give him the requisite money then that's not Robinson's fault.
It's only detracting from the game because you're letting it bother you. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, so the result remains untarnished.
As for re-appraisal thing. I hadn't realised you had completed an initial appraisal so early on. I think it's a shame he's been judged so harshly by supporters who have previously been very reasonable toward new managers. To be expected to some degree after the experience of Roland, but a shame nonetheless.
To be clear Jimmy, I had not appraised him at all. I am sure you can't be assed to look up my comment history to check that, but as a reasoned and reasonable poster yourself, i believ you will trust me on that point. My comment was aimed indeed at those who had appraised him too quickly as a manager. If your point is that it is far too early for such an appraisal, I agree with you.
What he says though, can and should be commented on. For better or for worse, that is what is expected nowadays. You describe his comment as "inconsequential" so let me ask you this; if we make no further signings in this window, and as a result of that find our squad to be incapable of getting us into the playoffs, but a significant number of fans say "well they tried but other clubs were extorting us", that will be a consequence of his statement, will it not?
Ok point take on appraisal, I thought you meant you needed to reappraise. I certainly think some posters do.
But blimey Prague, I'm a big fan of your analytical mind. I just think you're pointing it in the wrong direction. If we don't make any signings and don't make the play-offs, it won't really matter what Robinson did or didn't say four months ago. He's probably going to say a hell of a lot more between now and then anyway!
Robinson has a very good point .. other clubs with players for sale and under contract know that we have had (comparatively) big money for Lookman and Fox, naturally, they'll want as much as possible from us in exchange for said players
Also, how many more players do we need ? .. midfield is pretty much sorted with the arrival of F-C, the discovery/development of Aribo and if necessary Konsa alongside Crofts .. Another striker along the lines of Magennis would be nice, (I am in favour of retaining Ajose) .. defence is well catered for, the one weak area is right back where again, Konsa can cover for the excellent Solly if and when required ... personally I am not in favour of too big a squad .. it can lead to unhappy players, too much leeway for managers to 'experiment' and to be 'innovative' and too many changes can disrupt both team patterns and morale
Ok point take on appraisal, I thought you meant you needed to reappraise. I certainly think some posters do.
But blimey Prague, I'm a big fan of your analytical mind. I just think you're pointing it in the wrong direction. If we don't make any signings and don't make the play-offs, it won't really matter what Robinson did or didn't say four months ago. He's probably going to say a hell of a lot more between now and then anyway!
What I want Jimmy, is some open and honest communication from this regime. I do not think that the important things we need to hear about, should come via the manager, precisely because, as you infer, they are outside his control. I have not been one of those who has openly criticised his comments up to now, but I do think he has said too much, about things he need not have referred to at all, and has made himself a hostage to fortune as a result. Maybe it is a result of his relative youth as much as his Scouse background.
My personal feeling is that we will now finish top half but outside the play offs, whereas in October under Slade I feared we would finish 14th-16th. If that were to happen i would prefer Robinson to stay in place, and argue - privately - for the right kind of investment to take the division by storm next season. If he carries on making points in public, be they pro or anti regime, over the next four months, about the squad investment, he risks either alienating many fans, or alternatively incurring the wrath of the madman in S-T. For that reason it would be better for all of us if he just Curbed - it a bit from now on.
Robinson has a very good point .. other clubs with players for sale and under contract know that we have had (comparatively) big money for Lookman and Fox, naturally, they'll want as much as possible from us in exchange for said players
Also, how many more players do we need ? .. midfield is pretty much sorted with the arrival of F-C, the discovery/development of Aribo and if necessary Konsa alongside Crofts .. Another striker along the lines of Magennis would be nice, (I am in favour of retaining Ajose) .. defence is well catered for, the one weak area is right back where again, Konsa can cover for the excellent Solly if and when required ... personally I am not in favour of too big a squad .. it can lead to unhappy players, too much leeway for managers to 'experiment' and to be 'innovative' and too many changes can disrupt both team patterns and morale
Other than Ajose (you're very patient!) I agree, especially if the squad has versatile players like Konsa and Chicksen who can play in more than one position. Still not sure about Novak (needs a run in the side?) so one more striker? Perhaps a Dawson type ball winner in midfield?
Novak is suffering from having such a bad start to his Charlton career. Did he get a good pre season ? Then the broken hand. I think players that don't get a good start to a campaign never really catch up. He doesn't look a "natural athlete" so I think he's finding it hard getting up to speed. Now he's fully fit enough to train he needs to push the fitness and make an impact in the latter part of the season.
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
Win lose or Draw, my view stays the same regardless who the manager is
For me Robinson was on the back foot because I didn't like him when he was at MK.
I do think he's probably the best appointment the regime has made to date, although that might be damning with faint praise. He's doing a lot of the right things, the team does seem to respond to him and there is clear evidence that he's working hard to try to build a bridge with supporters. All positives in my book.
Two things though. Firstly he seems to have convinced himself he's the answer to the fans' problems with the Belgians. Unfortunately that's not going to be achievable.
Secondly, he talks way too much. That gives more than ample opportunity to judge him by his words, and frankly he's used some very ambitious words. Certainly when it comes to the transfer market he'd be better keeping his powder dry given the last 3 years, or say something non committal like Curbs used to do, you know, "we're always in the market for players who will improve us at the right price" sort of thing.
So for Robinson its a 6-7/10 so far. Mixed on the pitch, mixed off it. Hopefully it's an upward trajectory and it won't all be undone again by a pasting on the telly.
Novak is suffering from having such a bad start to his Charlton career. Did he get a good pre season ? Then the broken hand. I think players that don't get a good start to a campaign never really catch up. He doesn't look a "natural athlete" so I think he's finding it hard getting up to speed. Now he's fully fit enough to train he needs to push the fitness and make an impact in the latter part of the season.
Grapevine has made an excellent comment about any transfer in the next two days. Grapevine has rightly said that any significant transfer in this window would be remedial action because of the very poor preparation going into this season. Remedial action is much more expensive than properly funded preparation made at the right time. Karl Robinson might want to do January spending on summer money which isn't going to happen because, well because it is January, we are in need, and we have had a comparative shedload of money just come in. It looks less like Robinson setting us up for disappointment, than him thinking that Duchatelet won't pay the current going rate for the repairs needed in January, needed because of Duchatelet's ignorant neglect last summer. There are still two days, we have a manager who could do with some backing, support that would love significant incoming, and recent bonus money come in that a reasonable percentage of it could be spent. There is still time to cheer a lot of fans up, or piss a lot of fans off.
This statement by Robinson is a senseless own goal on a day when he potentially hugely enhanced his reputation with Charlton fans. Where is his evidence that "Charlton have to pay top dollar and others get away with a bit of a discount"? How could he possibly know what "discounts" other clubs get? I cannot think of any reason why a Championship club would think Charlton have far more money to spend, and more reason to spend it than Sheffield United.
I can think of a reason why said Championship club might think they can get Charlton to pay more than SU for a given player, but it's not the reason Robinson has in mind, and it's not "wrong".
Important to piss on the club after such a great win which keeps the season's hopes alive. Why not have another pop at the medical team like you did last week? After all Magennis and Pearce weren't available.
Let's face it this sequence of two points a game and five games unbeaten is killing you. Great signings like Byrne and Forster-Caskey plus KR bringing in Teixeira and Aribo just don't sit well with your narrative that everything is shite at CAFC.
KR has made seven changes since we lost to Millwall and Peterborough. Some players dropped, some back from injury, Fox and Lookman sold plus Magennis injured. And yet we go into next week's game with a good chance of a win.
And yet you are so vested in failure that you can't see any of that. No, all you see is your chance to have a pop at the manager.
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
So @shirty5 is lying? No he is not it's an observation that KR needs to ignore all talk of discounts and worry about on field matters where he is making progress. Leave the transfers to the CEO.
I would have said the same about any manager doing it, including Curbs who would regularly moan about this sort of thing. Do you not remember him going on like this the summer after Parker or Bowyer went?
Unfair to criticise Robinson for not wanting to let clubs take the piss with over inflated prices. Curbishley never used to do it and I don't want any Charlton manager to feel he doesn't have a responsibility to manage his budget.
Totally against this regime for all the reasons we already know.
However, I agree with you SHG ... on this occasion, there is no basis to criticise KR. If he is lying, that's one hell of a conspiracy theory that is being implied.
"Our second oldest player was our goalkeeper at 26 years of age. It showed in the energy and quality we played with. That’s the way I want my teams to play.”
I particularly like this quote. A far cry from some of the pedestrian sides Slade put out earlier in the season.
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
So @shirty5 is lying? No he is not it's an observation that KR needs to ignore all talk of discounts and worry about on field matters where he is making progress. Leave the transfers to the CEO.
Did you just say 'Leave the transfers to the CEO'? Seriously?
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
So @shirty5 is lying? No he is not it's an observation that KR needs to ignore all talk of discounts and worry about on field matters where he is making progress. Leave the transfers to the CEO.
Did you just say 'Leave the transfers to the CEO'? Seriously?
The Manger recommends who they want, the CEO/DOF does the deal, That is what happens at normal clubs
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
So @shirty5 is lying? No he is not it's an observation that KR needs to ignore all talk of discounts and worry about on field matters where he is making progress. Leave the transfers to the CEO.
Did you just say 'Leave the transfers to the CEO'? Seriously?
The Manger recommends who they want, the CEO/DOF does the deal, That is what happens at normal clubs
If your a club and another club comes in for your player after they have got 7/8 million on a couple of sales, then of course you are going to chance your arm and add a couple of hundred thousand on the value of a player.
It's nothing new, so bleating about it in press conferences is not going to change anything.
Bit unnecessary. Give him a break. He's doing well. You're nit picking for the sake of it.
Behave. The fella is bleating about something that's not new when it comes to transfers.
Nothing to do with him doing well.
But it's having a go at Robinson again, and looking for any excuse to do so. The word 'bleating' is quite a harsh and unnecessary one to use. And it's such a minor inconsequential point about the transfer business. Who cares if it's something not new. It's just the way he talks or did you prefer the tight lipped Slade? You're looking for any excuse to have a go, and I genuinely don't see why you do it.
Rubbish. If any Charlton manager came out with that, I would say exactly the same, be it Curbishley, Lawrence etc.
Really? After a great win like that? Hmmm
So @shirty5 is lying? No he is not it's an observation that KR needs to ignore all talk of discounts and worry about on field matters where he is making progress. Leave the transfers to the CEO.
Did you just say 'Leave the transfers to the CEO'? Seriously?
The Manger recommends who they want, the CEO/DOF does the deal, That is what happens at normal clubs
For me, KR is a breath of fresh air in an atmosphere that's been pretty stinky since the regime have been in control. As someone mentioned a few weeks ago, he definitely has a touch of Keegan about him - and I loved Keegan at NUFC (that team ignited my love of football). I still despise roly and daisy, but KR and this emerging Charlton squad are starting to give me hope. ROLAND OUT!!!
Novak is suffering from having such a bad start to his Charlton career. Did he get a good pre season ? Then the broken hand. I think players that don't get a good start to a campaign never really catch up. He doesn't look a "natural athlete" so I think he's finding it hard getting up to speed. Now he's fully fit enough to train he needs to push the fitness and make an impact in the latter part of the season.
LeedsbasedTownfan (Hudds fan), said the best thing about Novak is that he will run all day and through a brick wall.
Yet he's done the opposite for us and despite what everyone says I don't think he's overweight as I saw him at Bromley addicks and he was positively slim.
Comments
It's only detracting from the game because you're letting it bother you. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, so the result remains untarnished.
As for re-appraisal thing. I hadn't realised you had completed an initial appraisal so early on. I think it's a shame he's been judged so harshly by supporters who have previously been very reasonable toward new managers. To be expected to some degree after the experience of Roland, but a shame nonetheless.
The main thing is that he's given the team energy and has spotted weaknesses (Ajose, Ulvestad maybe, JJ [sorry]) and has improved some (Crofts, Aribo, Konsa [by moving him forward]).
I don't care if he talks too much, or goes off on one from time to time. Really doesn't matter to me at all.
What he says though, can and should be commented on. For better or for worse, that is what is expected nowadays. You describe his comment as "inconsequential" so let me ask you this; if we make no further signings in this window, and as a result of that find our squad to be incapable of getting us into the playoffs, but a significant number of fans say "well they tried but other clubs were extorting us", that will be a consequence of his statement, will it not?
But blimey Prague, I'm a big fan of your analytical mind. I just think you're pointing it in the wrong direction. If we don't make any signings and don't make the play-offs, it won't really matter what Robinson did or didn't say four months ago. He's probably going to say a hell of a lot more between now and then anyway!
Also, how many more players do we need ? .. midfield is pretty much sorted with the arrival of F-C, the discovery/development of Aribo and if necessary Konsa alongside Crofts ..
Another striker along the lines of Magennis would be nice, (I am in favour of retaining Ajose)
.. defence is well catered for, the one weak area is right back where again, Konsa can cover for the excellent Solly if and when required
... personally I am not in favour of too big a squad .. it can lead to unhappy players, too much leeway for managers to 'experiment' and to be 'innovative' and too many changes can disrupt both team patterns and morale
My personal feeling is that we will now finish top half but outside the play offs, whereas in October under Slade I feared we would finish 14th-16th. If that were to happen i would prefer Robinson to stay in place, and argue - privately - for the right kind of investment to take the division by storm next season. If he carries on making points in public, be they pro or anti regime, over the next four months, about the squad investment, he risks either alienating many fans, or alternatively incurring the wrath of the madman in S-T. For that reason it would be better for all of us if he just Curbed - it a bit from now on.
I do think he's probably the best appointment the regime has made to date, although that might be damning with faint praise. He's doing a lot of the right things, the team does seem to respond to him and there is clear evidence that he's working hard to try to build a bridge with supporters. All positives in my book.
Two things though. Firstly he seems to have convinced himself he's the answer to the fans' problems with the Belgians. Unfortunately that's not going to be achievable.
Secondly, he talks way too much. That gives more than ample opportunity to judge him by his words, and frankly he's used some very ambitious words. Certainly when it comes to the transfer market he'd be better keeping his powder dry given the last 3 years, or say something non committal like Curbs used to do, you know, "we're always in the market for players who will improve us at the right price" sort of thing.
So for Robinson its a 6-7/10 so far. Mixed on the pitch, mixed off it. Hopefully it's an upward trajectory and it won't all be undone again by a pasting on the telly.
I stick by that.
Not that a club of our size with supposedly a top six budget should expect anything less.
In my opinion we should have been aiming for top two but that's gone now bar a miracle.
But despite what the apologists like to pretend me and nearly all other protesters want the team to win and do well because we are fans.
Grapevine has rightly said that any significant transfer in this window would be remedial action because of the very poor preparation going into this season.
Remedial action is much more expensive than properly funded preparation made at the right time.
Karl Robinson might want to do January spending on summer money which isn't going to happen because, well because it is January, we are in need, and we have had a comparative shedload of money just come in.
It looks less like Robinson setting us up for disappointment, than him thinking that Duchatelet won't pay the current going rate for the repairs needed in January, needed because of Duchatelet's ignorant neglect last summer.
There are still two days, we have a manager who could do with some backing, support that would love significant incoming, and recent bonus money come in that a reasonable percentage of it could be spent.
There is still time to cheer a lot of fans up, or piss a lot of fans off.
£50 to the Upbeats either way
I would have said the same about any manager doing it, including Curbs who would regularly moan about this sort of thing. Do you not remember him going on like this the summer after Parker or Bowyer went?
However, I agree with you SHG ... on this occasion, there is no basis to criticise KR. If he is lying, that's one hell of a conspiracy theory that is being implied.
I particularly like this quote. A far cry from some of the pedestrian sides Slade put out earlier in the season.
Seriously?
Yet he's done the opposite for us and despite what everyone says I don't think he's overweight as I saw him at Bromley addicks and he was positively slim.