What if a corner that should be a goal kick leads yo a goal....end of story.
I have oft quoted the famous Fulham free kick/our throw in. Arguably changed the history of our club? Like you, I have said all along, where do you draw the line? I know the proponents will say "where it is now", but others will disagree in the future, mark my words. It's all or nothing ultimately. For me, it's nothing.
I feel embarrassed if Cafc fans think not getting a free kick or throw in caused our relegation over a season.
If you don't get it, you don't know much about football. That's embarrassing. Even if you don't understand the bigger implications, it cost us two points.
Not sure how you can twist not having any 0-0s as being because of VAR...
Sweden v South Korea would likely have ended 0-0 had the Referee not checked the blatant penalty on the video replay as he was happy to let play continue
Is the correct answer. No twisting needed as it is a fact. It was 0-0 penalty claim turned down by the ref and after VAR intervened the penalty was given & scored. 0-0 became 1-0.
Calm down a bit will you. I'm yet to see VAR get a decision wrong... Refs still are though...
Whatever. When it's wrong it's the refs fault when it's right it's because VAR is great.
When the refs don't opt to review it, it's the refs fault.
But what are the laid down guidelines for when or if VAR can be used or when it has to be used?. And when is it a directive to always refer to VAR and when is it only left to a judgement call by someone to review it? As I said previously VAR is a system involving guidlines and humans, it's not just a bunch of tellies. And it needs clearly laid down guidlines and chains of command to operate fully.
Not sure how you can twist not having any 0-0s as being because of VAR...
Sweden v South Korea would likely have ended 0-0 had the Referee not checked the blatant penalty on the video replay as he was happy to let play continue
Is the correct answer. No twisting needed as it is a fact. It was 0-0 penalty claim turned down by the ref and after VAR intervened the penalty was given & scored. 0-0 became 1-0.
It's a fact that if Sweden didn't have a lead to hold onto they would have played the same way for the rest of the game, kept the same tactics and subs, not attacked more? You know that for a FACT do you? VAR is not the flipping reason there hasn't been any 0-0 results yet its incidental.
Not sure how you can twist not having any 0-0s as being because of VAR...
Sweden v South Korea would likely have ended 0-0 had the Referee not checked the blatant penalty on the video replay as he was happy to let play continue
Is the correct answer. No twisting needed as it is a fact. It was 0-0 penalty claim turned down by the ref and after VAR intervened the penalty was given & scored. 0-0 became 1-0.
It's a fact that if Sweden didn't have a lead to hold onto they would have played the same way for the rest of the game, kept the same tactics and subs, not attacked more? You know that for a FACT do you? VAR is not the flipping reason there hasn't been any 0-0 results yet its incidental.
Game was turgid, was like Charlton v Fleetwood... the two could still be playing and wouldnt have scored
not sure if I'm understanding this. some have said the ref decides whether he looks at a review but it sounds as if its more like he gets told there could be an issue and he should have a look at it which then means he goes over to the TV. unless of course it takes too long for the VAR.
this bit makes it sound as if the VAR officials are the ones who should be picking up on these wrestling moves in the penalty box...
"The video referee speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, who will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed. If satisfied there is no error, he will signal for play to re-start.
VAR decides. In this instance the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen. The video referee will review the incident and the referee will make the same signal if he wishes to change his decision."
though tonight the ref should of seen that on Mitrovic.
not sure if I'm understanding this. some have said the ref decides whether he looks at a review but it sounds as if its more like he gets told there could be an issue and he should have a look at it which then means he goes over to the TV. unless of course it takes too long for the VAR.
this bit makes it sound as if the VAR officials are the ones who should be picking up on these wrestling moves in the penalty box...
"The video referee speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, who will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed. If satisfied there is no error, he will signal for play to re-start.
VAR decides. In this instance the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen. The video referee will review the incident and the referee will make the same signal if he wishes to change his decision."
though tonight the ref should of seen that on Mitrovic.
That's interesting as it suggests, unless I am misreading it, that the ref going to a monitor to check the incident is not actually required for a decision to be overturned - just for the VAR to say so.
One thing is for sure, in tonights case and in the England game, the ref did not put his hand up to pause play OR inform the players it was being reviewed, he immediately signalled for play to continue so either VAR did not review the incidents at all and said nothing to him, or they did say something and the ref ignored them and refused to follow the VAR procedure of stopping play and holding his hand up.
Is there anything in the rules that says a ref can over-rule a decision to review from the VAR team or is he obligated to stop play when the VAR team instructs him that they are reviewing an incident?
I would suggest if the ref is not obligated to stop play then he should be, and if a ref decides to go rogue as it were and ignore the VAR team then perhaps that is an occasion when the fourth official should step in. (edit step in to hold up play I mean)
Unless the ref has a personal vendetta or is involved in match fixing I don't see why he wouldn't listen to his VAR team anyway- its akin to a ref in the pre-VAR era over-ruling his linesman and letting an offside goal stand as far as i'm concerned - just dodgy dodgy dodgy
IMO, if its the referees ignoring VAR then the system of VAR does get it wrong. VAR itself isn't wrong but those using it and the rules on how and when it is put in to practice are clearly failing. VAR refs need to be able to overrule the referee and either demand he watches the footage, or tell the ref what the decision is and the ref must accept what the VAR team decide.
Not just English fans complaining, it is clearly not being used correctly.
Some fantastic decisions being made by VAR use. But with VAR there is no excuse to get it wrong.
Last thing i'll say on this tonight (aware I've posted a lot on this thread today so i'll hold off for a bit after this) A point being missed is that the ref on the pitch is as much a part of the VAR system as the guys in the van or wherever - they are a cog in the process so if the ref fails then by extension the system fails. You cannot separately blame the ref on the pitch anymore so all this "it's on his head" if he gets something wrong is not true - it's a failure of the entire procedure.
If i'm FIFA right now i'd be sending out a memo or holding a conference call with all the refs in the competition urgently after this - refs need telling in no uncertain terms if VAR says wait, YOU WAIT. If VAR says you should look at the replay, LOOK AT THE REPLAY. Remove any ambiguity about refs having any autonomy when it comes to that bit of VAR. By all means give them the final decision after checking the monitor but if the ref is told to review and says no I don't need to - they don't belong on the pitch.
I hate it more and more every time. The nerdy kids who comes to disturb mum (ok, or dad) in the kitchen to decide for them who's turn it is to have a penalty. So wave goodbye to the feeling of being robbed out of a penalty (or ssshhh got away with one) of a terrible ref or a 'friendly' one. Sure... we fell in love with football cause its a game full of justice... Sign of our times. Typical righteous shit...
Last thing i'll say on this tonight (aware I've posted a lot on this thread today so i'll hold off for a bit after this) A point being missed is that the ref on the pitch is as much a part of the VAR system as the guys in the van or wherever - they are a cog in the process so if the ref fails then by extension the system fails. You cannot separately blame the ref on the pitch anymore so all this "it's on his head" if he gets something wrong is not true - it's a failure of the entire procedure.
If i'm FIFA right now i'd be sending out a memo or holding a conference call with all the refs in the competition urgently after this - refs need telling in no uncertain terms if VAR says wait, YOU WAIT. If VAR says you should look at the replay, LOOK AT THE REPLAY. Remove any ambiguity about refs having any autonomy when it comes to that bit of VAR. By all means give them the final decision after checking the monitor but if the ref is told to review and says no I don't need to - they don't belong on the pitch.
ok no more hogging the thread I promise.
Now here we agree entirely, bit as I said earlier, its a work in progress
This world cup may have been a little early, but VAR has done enough to win me over.
Just for clarity, I have lifted this from the Laws of the Game
LAW 6 - THE OTHER MATCH OFFICIALS
-1" class="chapter__number ng-binding">5. VIDEO MATCH OFFICIALS
A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official who may assist the referee to make a decision using replay footage only for a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ relating to a goal/no goal, penalty/no penalty, direct red card (not a second caution) or a case of mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team
An assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) is a match official who helps the VAR primarily by:
watching the television footage while the VAR is busy with a ‘check’ or a ‘review’keeping a record of VAR-related incidents and any communication or technology problemsassisting the VAR’s communication with the referee, especially communicating with the referee when the VAR is undertaking a ‘check’/ ‘review’ e.g. to tell the referee to ‘stop play’ or ‘delay the restart’ etc.recording the time ‘lost’ when play is delayed for a ‘check’ or a ‘review’communicating information about a VAR-related decision to relevant parties
I wonder if the VAR refs have been instructed to raise the threshold, compared to the opening games, for when they ask the ref to review a decision? That would be a shame. I think it was working great in those games.
Just for clarity, I have lifted this from the Laws of the Game
LAW 6 - THE OTHER MATCH OFFICIALS
-1" class="chapter__number ng-binding">5. VIDEO MATCH OFFICIALS
A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official who may assist the referee to make a decision using replay footage only for a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ relating to a goal/no goal, penalty/no penalty, direct red card (not a second caution) or a case of mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team
An assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) is a match official who helps the VAR primarily by:
watching the television footage while the VAR is busy with a ‘check’ or a ‘review’keeping a record of VAR-related incidents and any communication or technology problemsassisting the VAR’s communication with the referee, especially communicating with the referee when the VAR is undertaking a ‘check’/ ‘review’ e.g. to tell the referee to ‘stop play’ or ‘delay the restart’ etc.recording the time ‘lost’ when play is delayed for a ‘check’ or a ‘review’communicating information about a VAR-related decision to relevant parties
So there is no guideline/law to make it clear whether a referee has to take any notice of the VAR then Peter?
Just for clarity, I have lifted this from the Laws of the Game
LAW 6 - THE OTHER MATCH OFFICIALS
-1" class="chapter__number ng-binding">5. VIDEO MATCH OFFICIALS
A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official who may assist the referee to make a decision using replay footage only for a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ relating to a goal/no goal, penalty/no penalty, direct red card (not a second caution) or a case of mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team
An assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) is a match official who helps the VAR primarily by:
watching the television footage while the VAR is busy with a ‘check’ or a ‘review’keeping a record of VAR-related incidents and any communication or technology problemsassisting the VAR’s communication with the referee, especially communicating with the referee when the VAR is undertaking a ‘check’/ ‘review’ e.g. to tell the referee to ‘stop play’ or ‘delay the restart’ etc.recording the time ‘lost’ when play is delayed for a ‘check’ or a ‘review’communicating information about a VAR-related decision to relevant parties
So there is no guideline/law to make it clear whether a referee has to take any notice of the VAR then Peter?
I dont know anymore than is printed above, other than the laws are reviewed everyand any changes always come into place on 1 June.
The people doing it are piss poor. Embarrassing decisions with the Serbia game and the Germany game. It's ridiculous. Seems to me its too early for VAR because the people looking at the TV screens are not trained properly.
Comments
Calm down a bit will you. I'm yet to see VAR get a decision wrong... Refs still are though...
this bit makes it sound as if the VAR officials are the ones who should be picking up on these wrestling moves in the penalty box...
"The video referee speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, who will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed. If satisfied there is no error, he will signal for play to re-start.
VAR decides. In this instance the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen. The video referee will review the incident and the referee will make the same signal if he wishes to change his decision."
though tonight the ref should of seen that on Mitrovic.
One thing is for sure, in tonights case and in the England game, the ref did not put his hand up to pause play OR inform the players it was being reviewed, he immediately signalled for play to continue so either VAR did not review the incidents at all and said nothing to him, or they did say something and the ref ignored them and refused to follow the VAR procedure of stopping play and holding his hand up.
Is there anything in the rules that says a ref can over-rule a decision to review from the VAR team or is he obligated to stop play when the VAR team instructs him that they are reviewing an incident?
I would suggest if the ref is not obligated to stop play then he should be, and if a ref decides to go rogue as it were and ignore the VAR team then perhaps that is an occasion when the fourth official should step in. (edit step in to hold up play I mean)
Unless the ref has a personal vendetta or is involved in match fixing I don't see why he wouldn't listen to his VAR team anyway- its akin to a ref in the pre-VAR era over-ruling his linesman and letting an offside goal stand as far as i'm concerned - just dodgy dodgy dodgy
Here's a clip of the incident.
IMO, if its the referees ignoring VAR then the system of VAR does get it wrong. VAR itself isn't wrong but those using it and the rules on how and when it is put in to practice are clearly failing. VAR refs need to be able to overrule the referee and either demand he watches the footage, or tell the ref what the decision is and the ref must accept what the VAR team decide.
Not just English fans complaining, it is clearly not being used correctly.
Some fantastic decisions being made by VAR use. But with VAR there is no excuse to get it wrong.
If i'm FIFA right now i'd be sending out a memo or holding a conference call with all the refs in the competition urgently after this - refs need telling in no uncertain terms if VAR says wait, YOU WAIT. If VAR says you should look at the replay, LOOK AT THE REPLAY. Remove any ambiguity about refs having any autonomy when it comes to that bit of VAR. By all means give them the final decision after checking the monitor but if the ref is told to review and says no I don't need to - they don't belong on the pitch.
ok no more hogging the thread I promise.
Sign of our times. Typical righteous shit...
This world cup may have been a little early, but VAR has done enough to win me over.
LAW 6 - THE OTHER MATCH OFFICIALS
-1" class="chapter__number ng-binding">5. VIDEO MATCH OFFICIALS
A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official who may assist the referee to make a decision using replay footage only for a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ relating to a goal/no goal, penalty/no penalty, direct red card (not a second caution) or a case of mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team
An assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) is a match official who helps the VAR primarily by:
watching the television footage while the VAR is busy with a ‘check’ or a ‘review’keeping a record of VAR-related incidents and any communication or technology problemsassisting the VAR’s communication with the referee, especially communicating with the referee when the VAR is undertaking a ‘check’/ ‘review’ e.g. to tell the referee to ‘stop play’ or ‘delay the restart’ etc.recording the time ‘lost’ when play is delayed for a ‘check’ or a ‘review’communicating information about a VAR-related decision to relevant parties