After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Who is Redhenry and how the feck do you have so many sources? I'm not saying that doubting him at all, as he always has the inside track... Just interested to know
RedHenry is George the trolley collector at Asda but dont tell anyone because his info will dry up
I just think it’s a real shame that someone has been driven from this board for effectively posting in completely good faith information they have which nobody else could possibly get.
James Seed was ridiculously slated by some because things dragged on. Perhaps they should give thought to the other very credible sources we have that also gave some false hope. Richard Murray, Airman Brown both thought things were very close months ago. I am certain that they thought what was said was true.
None of us know why it’s dragged on but taking our frustrations out on credible posters is bang out of order.
I’m very grateful to anyone posting what they have heard even if it’s not ultimately 100% accurate.
Assume that like FFP an owner can inject as much as they want in equity just not loans so no restrictions in reality are there, the owner just can’t lever the club as highly... although not sure how that would work in respect to salaries as a % of turnover...?
If an owner in L1 can seriously inject any capital they want (as long as it is not debt) then a rich owner has more freedom to spend in L1 than in the Premier League. In one window a new owner here could buy £10M of players and we would be promoted instantaneously.
There has to be some kind of hard caps limit for owner injections, no? If not... wow.
Why, though? Would you like a restriction on a capital injection into your business? Would you like a new egg-shaped wine tank? No, sorry, you can't have that, you've already had too much capital expenditure this year. FFP is a joke. Club owners should be allowed to spend what they like how they like. If their business goes bust through mismanagement, tough.
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Agreed all the way through your post except for where you say RD didn't want us out of L1 as fast as possible.
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
Assume that like FFP an owner can inject as much as they want in equity just not loans so no restrictions in reality are there, the owner just can’t lever the club as highly... although not sure how that would work in respect to salaries as a % of turnover...?
If an owner in L1 can seriously inject any capital they want (as long as it is not debt) then a rich owner has more freedom to spend in L1 than in the Premier League. In one window a new owner here could buy £10M of players and we would be promoted instantaneously.
There has to be some kind of hard caps limit for owner injections, no? If not... wow.
Why, though? Would you like a restriction on a capital injection into your business? Would you like a new egg-shaped wine tank? No, sorry, you can't have that, you've already had too much capital expenditure this year. FFP is a joke. Club owners should be allowed to spend what they like how they like. If their business goes bust through mismanagement, tough.
What I meant by "there has to be some kind of limit" was NOT whether it was right to have such... but simply whether there WAS such. FFP and offshoots are all bureaucratic nonsense. I just EXPECTED there would be one because... Europe likes to do things like that.
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Agreed all the way through your post except for where you say RD didn't want us out of L1 as fast as possible.
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
He prefers to use his own cash not to get there by loaning money he will never get back to cover increased operating losses. Genius.
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Agreed all the way through your post except for where you say RD didn't want us out of L1 as fast as possible.
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
He prefers to use his own cash not to get there by loaning money he will never get back to cover increased operating losses. Genius.
Isn't this what the Glazers are doing at Man United? The club debt is more than £550m - mainly in the form of loans from the Glazers. And they are taking about £20m a year out of the club in the form of salaries and share dividends to family members. Suspect, one day, it might come crashing down - although as one of the biggest clubs in the world - maybe their debt is sustainable, whereas ours isn't...
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
If we sign top players, they would demand top wages as well. Those 6 500k players would demand top wages to come to us, especially if we're seen as a club with money
Part of our problem is that we still have a surprisingly high number of players on big contracts. Igor, Sarr and Bauer I imagine all have VERY generous contracts by L1 standards. Indeed I think we have more network/driessen type players playing for us than signings made by Slade, partially because of this.
The point of FFP should be to stop owners saddling clubs with debt, rather than some kind of level playing field scenario
FFP only exists to protect the clubs at the big table and so stop another Man City or PSG from joining them and threatening to kick out those already there
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Agreed all the way through your post except for where you say RD didn't want us out of L1 as fast as possible.
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
He prefers to use his own cash not to get there by loaning money he will never get back to cover increased operating losses. Genius.
Isn't this what the Glazers are doing at Man United? The club debt is more than £550m - mainly in the form of loans from the Glazers. And they are taking about £20m a year out of the club in the form of salaries and share dividends to family members. Suspect, one day, it might come crashing down - although as one of the biggest clubs in the world - maybe their debt is sustainable, whereas ours isn't...
United make a profit and increase in value year on year.
So sell Fosu for £4m in January which goes into turnover.
Buy him back for £4m, which does not come out of turnover, problem sorted.
But then we become his third club in one season and he can no longer play for us - actually he’s always injured or suspended so yeah you’re right, go for it....
So sell Fosu for £4m in January which goes into turnover.
Buy him back for £4m, which does not come out of turnover, problem sorted.
But then we become his third club in one season and he can no longer play for us - actually he’s always injured or suspended so yeah you’re right, go for it....
But we could buy a kid from (say) Sunderland and they but one of ours.
After learning about SCMT, Roland is even more than a loser that I thought.
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
Agreed all the way through your post except for where you say RD didn't want us out of L1 as fast as possible.
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
He prefers to use his own cash not to get there by loaning money he will never get back to cover increased operating losses. Genius.
Isn't this what the Glazers are doing at Man United? The club debt is more than £550m - mainly in the form of loans from the Glazers. And they are taking about £20m a year out of the club in the form of salaries and share dividends to family members. Suspect, one day, it might come crashing down - although as one of the biggest clubs in the world - maybe their debt is sustainable, whereas ours isn't...
It’s the opposite - they are taking money out of the club and looking to make more, he is just putting it in with no viable escape plan except to mug off a buyer. He is on the hook and can’t get off it, which all interested parties know. His only potentially profitable way out is to get promoted to the Premier League but that would entail an investment he is never going to make.
I have to say staff often know as little as supporters around this kind of stuff.
I think the staff often know a lot about not being paid their bonuses or their departed colleagues not being replaced.
Agree with this, but still do not believe staff know any more than us until the deal is signed and sealed and even then they will know only hours before.
In the event of a collapse I don't think they'd know any quicker than us as the business seems to be primarily being done over the phone or maybe over teleconference?
I have to say staff often know as little as supporters around this kind of stuff.
I think the staff often know a lot about not being paid their bonuses or their departed colleagues not being replaced.
Agree with this, but still do not believe staff know any more than us until the deal is signed and sealed and even then they will know only hours before.
In the event of a collapse I don't think they'd know any quicker than us as the business seems to be primarily being done over the phone or maybe over teleconference?
Do not underestimate the power of internal intelligence (jungle drums). They may be short on detail but they will know if it's generally good or bad news.
I have to say staff often know as little as supporters around this kind of stuff.
I think the staff often know a lot about not being paid their bonuses or their departed colleagues not being replaced.
Agree with this, but still do not believe staff know any more than us until the deal is signed and sealed and even then they will know only hours before.
In the event of a collapse I don't think they'd know any quicker than us as the business seems to be primarily being done over the phone or maybe over teleconference?
Do not underestimate the power of internal intelligence (jungle drums). They may be short on detail but they will know if it's generally good or bad news.
Agree
I still think that when the takeover eventually comes it will be done very quickly, with very little or no build up, just a statement on the website saying that
"Subject to football league approval the club has been sold to ???????"
Comments
Although I can see us easily bumping up against the 60% wage limit under SCMT (as a percent of turnover,) RD could easily just directly "inject equity" to cover the difference. He last did that the year we were relegated and he said afterword "this will never be repeated."
CAFC is in NO way in any financial bind. He just no longer wants to put any more of his money in the club and.... that's it. So rather than put any money in at all, Roland uses SCMT as an excuse to asset strip and sell players to the highest cash bidder, even if it is below market value.
For example... our turnover is about £12M. Likely our total wages are 60%, at the limit. £7.2M. He could just inject one million pounds and the problem is over. But instead he sells Konsa below market, uses the transfer "profit" to goose the "turnover," and deal with it that way. LUNACY!
In fact, after reading, I am kind of blown away at how much leeway owners of L1 and L2 clubs have. We could technically spend £500,000,000 on Messi in the winter and it would not breech spending rules under SCMT. In the Premier League, you would get busted for losing all that money.
In a more reasonable scenario, an owner of CAFC could give Bowyer £3,000,000 to spend, buy six top players at £500K each, and we would probably go straight up. In the Championship, this club would easily fetch far more than the £3M spent on top of it's rational League One valuation.
Profits on transfers count as "turnover" for wage limits but money spent on transfers do not count as wages. That's amazing, and again, different than The Championship or PL. You can spend all the money you want on transfers in L1 without any effect on SCMT at all. No limit. You just have to keep first team wages within 60% of the total of turnover + owner equity injections.
Here is a quick article that explains it well (and easier) than the actual EFL document.
RD could have got us out of L1 as fast as he wanted. He just did not want to. His stupidity is almost beyond understanding.
https://bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/financial-fair-play-you-need-888037
I think if we'd won the play offs last season we could well have been sold by now. Being in The Championship I believe makes us a far more attractive proposition to buy. RD just doesn't want to use his own cash to get us there as you said.
Part of our problem is that we still have a surprisingly high number of players on big contracts. Igor, Sarr and Bauer I imagine all have VERY generous contracts by L1 standards. Indeed I think we have more network/driessen type players playing for us than signings made by Slade, partially because of this.
Buy him back for £4m, which does not come out of turnover, problem sorted.
We don't.
“Are they going to be replaced? Probably not."
Classic Bows.
In the event of a collapse I don't think they'd know any quicker than us as the business seems to be primarily being done over the phone or maybe over teleconference?
I still think that when the takeover eventually comes it will be done very quickly, with very little or no build up, just a statement on the website saying that
"Subject to football league approval the club has been sold to ???????"
#teamWIOTOS