I think its a mistake to think the FF believe everything they are told. I've been quite impressed with the general discerning nature of the group, not just the excellent Mr Wallis. I will though seek a clarification on the numbers.
We don’t have the accounts for 2017/18 but based on the detail disclosed by Duchatelet the operating loss must have been circa £13m (£14.3m in 16/17). It is inconceivable that £6/£7m of costs have fallen out of the budget for 18/19 (given football salary costs are the biggest item) while revenue is likely to have fallen further.
It is true that some of the bottom line loss does not need to be funded, e.g. interest is just added to the debt so he is not putting that money in, but the funding requirement is unlikely to average as little as £0.5m a month over the full year.
However the fundamental issue with your “fill the ground” argument is that the revenue is much lower than you assume. Only about 55% of paid ticket sales go to adults - and about a third of season ticket sales are at the £200 price point, which yields £7.25 a game from adults after VAT.
So as much as people might look at some match tickets costing £28, the average yield per ticket is unlikely to be much more than £12/£13. Allowing a very generous £2 per head margin on all ancillary sales, a benchmark total benefit per fan would be £15. The total possible revenue from 23,700 home spectators (assuming a pro rata increase in season-ticket holders) is therefore about £8m against current operating costs of circa £20m (£21.1m in 16/17).
There is other revenue but it amounted to £4.4m in 16/17, of which just £1.2m was commercial. Much of the rest is central payments and academy grant.
He might be talking about the cash funding the club needs rather than the operating loss? £3.5m of our operating loss is depreciation / amortisation from the last accounts + £800k exceptional costs and we had a couple of million in the bank at year end.
Depends how much they've reduced the wage bill by really. Either way the club is going to need £0.5-1m cash every month to run. The operating loss he's alluded to for the financial year is quite likely though.
I think its a mistake to think the FF believe everything they are told. I've been quite impressed with the general discerning nature of the group, not just the excellent Mr Wallis. I will though seek a clarification on the numbers.
We don’t have the accounts for 2017/18 but based on the detail disclosed by Duchatelet the operating loss must have been circa £13m (£14.3m in 16/17). It is inconceivable that £6/£7m of costs have fallen out of the budget for 18/19 (given football salary costs are the biggest item) while revenue is likely to have fallen further.
It is true that some of the bottom line loss does not need to be funded, e.g. interest is just added to the debt so he is not putting that money in, but the funding requirement is unlikely to average as little as £0.5m a month over the full year.
However the fundamental issue with your “fill the ground” argument is that the revenue is much lower than you assume. Only about 55% of paid ticket sales go to adults - and about a third of season ticket sales are at the £200 price point, which yields £7.25 a game from adults after VAT.
So as much as people might look at some match tickets costing £28, the average yield per ticket is unlikely to be much more than £12/£13. Allowing a very generous £2 per head margin on all ancillary sales, a benchmark total benefit per fan would be £15. The total possible revenue from 23,700 home spectators (assuming a pro rata increase in season-ticket holders) is therefore about £8m against current operating costs of circa £20m (£21.1m in 16/17).
There is other revenue but it amounted to £4.4m in 16/17, of which just £1.2m was commercial. Much of the rest is central payments and academy grant.
He might be talking about the cash funding the club needs rather than the operating loss? £3.5m of our operating loss is depreciation / amortisation from the last accounts + £800k exceptional costs and we had a couple of million in the bank at year end.
Depends how much they've reduced the wage bill by really. Either way the club is going to need £0.5-1m cash every month to run. The operating loss he's alluded to for the financial year is quite likely though.
I agree he’s talking about the funding requirement and with what you say (see my post above) but Razil referred to the loss. The operating loss is very likely to remain in eight figures, because if you look at the player turnover there is nothing going to reduce salary costs by more than £3m net, while revenue is still falling.
The club also posts ”exceptional items” every year so I wouldn’t take that very seriously.
I think its a mistake to think the FF believe everything they are told. I've been quite impressed with the general discerning nature of the group, not just the excellent Mr Wallis. I will though seek a clarification on the numbers.
We don’t have the accounts for 2017/18 but based on the detail disclosed by Duchatelet the operating loss must have been circa £13m (£14.3m in 16/17). It is inconceivable that £6/£7m of costs have fallen out of the budget for 18/19 (given football salary costs are the biggest item) while revenue is likely to have fallen further.
It is true that some of the bottom line loss does not need to be funded, e.g. interest is just added to the debt so he is not putting that money in, but the funding requirement is unlikely to average as little as £0.5m a month over the full year.
However the fundamental issue with your “fill the ground” argument is that the revenue is much lower than you assume. Only about 55% of paid ticket sales go to adults - and about a third of season ticket sales are at the £200 price point, which yields £7.25 a game from adults after VAT.
So as much as people might look at some match tickets costing £28, the average yield per ticket is unlikely to be much more than £12/£13. Allowing a very generous £2 per head margin on all ancillary sales, a benchmark total benefit per fan would be £15. The total possible revenue from 23,700 home spectators (assuming a pro rata increase in season-ticket holders) is therefore about £8m against current operating costs of circa £20m (£21.1m in 16/17).
There is other revenue but it amounted to £4.4m in 16/17, of which just £1.2m was commercial. Much of the rest is central payments and academy grant.
He might be talking about the cash funding the club needs rather than the operating loss? £3.5m of our operating loss is depreciation / amortisation from the last accounts + £800k exceptional costs and we had a couple of million in the bank at year end.
Depends how much they've reduced the wage bill by really. Either way the club is going to need £0.5-1m cash every month to run. The operating loss he's alluded to for the financial year is quite likely though.
I agree he’s talking about the funding requirement and with what you say (see my post above) but Razil referred to the loss. The operating loss is very likely to remain in eight figures, because if you look at the player turnover there is nothing going to reduce salary costs by more than £3m net, while revenue is still falling.
The club also posts ”exceptional items” every year so I wouldn’t take that very seriously.
Just realised my last sentence wasn't very clear. Yes, agree with your view on the operating loss although sadly we won't get to see what the current cash burn is until the 2019 accounts are filed.
Seems to be totally self contradictory - one the one hand then on the other.
First he says:
“As far as timing is concerned, I did say to our staff down at the training ground that I hoped or thought February was the most likely month" for the club to be sold.
But then says goes on to say why February is the most unlikely time for a sale:
"once the transfer window is closed we have an interesting situation. Charlton and probably most clubs in this division, lose a substantial amount of money each month, so the onus is on Roland to do a deal as soon as possible but the onus isn’t so much on the buyer because they can’t influence the club too much other than relaunching it. January ending does remove one obvious good point to get involved.”
If a takeover was going to go through, now if about when you'd hope it would happen, as you'd want it to go through in time to allow some dealing in the January window which is 4 weeks away...
Valley Bob and Red Robin on CAFC Picks saying it could go through within the next two weeks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Valley Bob and Red Robin on CAFC Picks saying it could go through within the next two weeks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ValleyBob9 hours ago | 18 views Takeover ending soon Been told that the takeover could be done within two weeks.
Redrobin2 hours ago | 10 views Takeover ending soon Can confirm I have been told the same looks like finally the Aussies have found some decent backing
We’d be a lot closer with a fuller ground. Aren’t current losses £6m per year?
No, they are twice that. Of course it would be better to have more revenue but no realistic increase in gates will make a meaningful change.
Obviously Duchatelet’s pitiful management is a factor in that - losses have ballooned on his watch because of silly decisions - but, for example, a 4,000 increase in average attendances at current prices might yield about £1.5m a year at best - probably less.
Which begs the question, why would you want to own a football club?
Comments
Depends how much they've reduced the wage bill by really. Either way the club is going to need £0.5-1m cash every month to run. The operating loss he's alluded to for the financial year is quite likely though.
The club also posts ”exceptional items” every year so I wouldn’t take that very seriously.
Wages not paid at Bolton again
An example of where a club has been sold, but the financial issues have continued as the new owners can't finance the club
The owner had 45 managers in 16 years, so definitely similarities.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46411750
First he says:
“As far as timing is concerned, I did say to our staff down at the training ground that I hoped or thought February was the most likely month" for the club to be sold.
But then says goes on to say why February is the most unlikely time for a sale:
"once the transfer window is closed we have an interesting situation. Charlton and probably most clubs in this division, lose a substantial amount of money each month, so the onus is on Roland to do a deal as soon as possible but the onus isn’t so much on the buyer because they can’t influence the club too much other than relaunching it. January ending does remove one obvious good point to get involved.”
Strong smell of odure here.
ValleyBob9 hours ago | 18 views
Takeover ending soon
Been told that the takeover could be done within two weeks.
Redrobin2 hours ago | 10 views
Takeover ending soon
Can confirm I have been told the same looks like finally the Aussies have found some decent backing