Listening to White first hand on the above is both positive and worrying.
My take, and it's just how I'm reading it not ITK, is that:
They have the money. They are deciding whether to "unlock it" ie put it on the table. That is positive.
The talks weren't between the buyer and seller but between two groups of buyers. That is worrying as buyers still working things out..
Duchatelet is aware of the situation. No sure if that is good or bad as it's not clear if the price has been agreed or not. My worry is the irrational Roland factor can kick in at any time and the price doubles or requires the owners to provide a pint of unicorn's blood.
#teamWIOTOS
I had anticipated this so raided my cellar last night. Fear not, I've got it covered.
There *could* be a situation where the club is owned, 100%, by a consortium of Aussies, whose aspiration is purely on the return they can generate by improving the team (ie by getting promoted to the highest possible level), while the ground is owned, 100%, by a consortium of American investors who are purely and exclusively interested in the capital appreciation that will naturally accrue from a large piece of London real estate, whilst having no intention to develop the site. This would free up the football club to concentrate solely on the football; and free up the real estate investor to make capital gains, notwithstanding the performance of the team.
The main problems with that being that there's nothing to stop the Americans (or whoever) selling it to someone who does want to redevelop the site, and (perhaps a more likely scenario) there's nothing to stop the owners of the ground (the Americans or a subsequent owner) deciding that they'd like change the terms of the lease when it's up for renewal and increase the rent or take a bigger cut of revenue.
Numerous pubs have been forced to close as a result of landlords realising that they can make much more money turning the building into flats or leasing it to Tesco/Sainsburys. The old lease expires, pub can't afford the new terms, 6 months later it's Tesco Express on the ground floor with 6 flats on the upper floors.
You could argue that they couldn't put the rents up excessively because there isn't an alternative tenant for a football stadium, but you then become entirely dependent on Greenwich Council's Planning Department not allowing someone permission to knock it down and build something else there.
The biggest problem with this is the fact that they are American. Money makes them tick They, I guarantee, will not care one iota about Charlton Athetics Soccer Club.
If we could negotiate a deal with a British landlord I don't think its would be all bad, after all Its worked fine a dandy for West Ham. Perhaps we should get Boris and a Tory pier on board to lend their expertise.
There *could* be a situation where the club is owned, 100%, by a consortium of Aussies, whose aspiration is purely on the return they can generate by improving the team (ie by getting promoted to the highest possible level), while the ground is owned, 100%, by a consortium of American investors who are purely and exclusively interested in the capital appreciation that will naturally accrue from a large piece of London real estate, whilst having no intention to develop the site. This would free up the football club to concentrate solely on the football; and free up the real estate investor to make capital gains, notwithstanding the performance of the team.
The main problems with that being that there's nothing to stop the Americans (or whoever) selling it to someone who does want to redevelop the site, and (perhaps a more likely scenario) there's nothing to stop the owners of the ground (the Americans or a subsequent owner) deciding that they'd like change the terms of the lease when it's up for renewal and increase the rent or take a bigger cut of revenue.
Numerous pubs have been forced to close as a result of landlords realising that they can make much more money turning the building into flats or leasing it to Tesco/Sainsburys. The old lease expires, pub can't afford the new terms, 6 months later it's Tesco Express on the ground floor with 6 flats on the upper floors.
You could argue that they couldn't put the rents up excessively because there isn't an alternative tenant for a football stadium, but you then become entirely dependent on Greenwich Council's Planning Department not allowing someone permission to knock it down and build something else there.
The biggest problem with this is the fact that they are American. Money makes them tick They, I guarantee, will not care one iota about Charlton Athetics Soccer Club.
If we could negotiate a deal with a British landlord I don't think its would be all bad, after all Its worked fine a dandy for West Ham. Perhaps we should get Boris and a Tory pier on board to lend their expertise.
Millwall (spit!) have a very good owner who keeps that shitty club going year on year.
He's American.
The septics are a diverse and varied nation, they are not all the same, just like any nation.
so according to White, they have had talks to unlock the money so a bid can be made....FFS...so what if they say 25 mil and The Rat says 50 mil.....then they walk away.....?
This suggests to me the prospective purchasers are not yet in a position to have presented their plans to the EFL.
If/when they do, I can only hope the EFL have the experience of Coventry firmly in the forefront of their minds before potentially putting Charlton in the same situation a few years down the line.
So the Americans need convincing then. And with @Airman Brown saying he's heard prediction they would back away, do you think they sound bothered? These talks are the Aussies going 'Come onnnnn.....' and the US guys going 'Hmmmmm....' eventually winding up at a 50/50 Yay or Nay. While Roland waits because he's said yes to this lot. So how long is a piece of string, when it comes to how long do the US guys take to make their mind up? Here's hoping positive talks are just that, and that they are indeed ongoing and not just done for an hour and a half every week or so....
Let's look at a hypothetical example of how a separate Valley/Club deal might work.
Total takeover cost £30 million - made up of £15 million real estate and £15 million good will, EFL licence, squad value etc...
Americans pay £15 mill for the real estate and Aussies buy the rest. Americans charge a rent of £600k per year for a secure 99 year term thereby getting a 4% return, but retain ownership of the ground. Escape clause from the lease with an option for the Aussies to buy the freehold for say £20 million at any point in the future. Americans play no part whatsoever in running the club.
Ignore the actual figures above but that might work.
Listening to White first hand on the above is both positive and worrying.
My take, and it's just how I'm reading it not ITK, is that:
They have the money. They are deciding whether to "unlock it" ie put it on the table. That is positive.
The talks weren't between the buyer and seller but between two groups of buyers. That is worrying as buyers still working things out..
Duchatelet is aware of the situation. No sure if that is good or bad as it's not clear if the price has been agreed or not. My worry is the irrational Roland factor can kick in at any time and the price doubles or requires the owners to provide a pint of unicorn's blood.
#teamWIOTOS
I had anticipated this so raided my cellar last night. Fear not, I've got it covered.
Nice one Bob - can you pop back down there and see if there is £40m plus laying around?
I'm sorry to go onto a radio show and say its done, "Roland has gone" and then backtrack like he has I don't see how we should be thankful we are getting publicity from JW. He's an attention seeking bellend and this clearly backs it up.
Listening to White first hand on the above is both positive and worrying.
My take, and it's just how I'm reading it not ITK, is that:
They have the money. They are deciding whether to "unlock it" ie put it on the table. That is positive.
The talks weren't between the buyer and seller but between two groups of buyers. That is worrying as buyers still working things out..
Duchatelet is aware of the situation. No sure if that is good or bad as it's not clear if the price has been agreed or not. My worry is the irrational Roland factor can kick in at any time and the price doubles or requires the owners to provide a pint of unicorn's blood.
#teamWIOTOS
I had anticipated this so raided my cellar last night. Fear not, I've got it covered.
Nice one Bob - can you pop back down there and see if there is £40m plus laying around?
Hahaha, talks on going between americans and australian's to unlock money so a bid CAN be made.
Jesus christ, so they haven't even discussed whether they have enough money yet? I think this is the modern day equivalent of me and my mates scratching round our pockets/wallets at about 5am to see if we've got enough money for the guy who's about to drop off some more gear.
I've got a tenner, so has Paul, John's got a score, Dave how much have you got left?
It has been widely reported that the Aussies don’t have large financial resources available to them and therefore cannot afford to pay Roland’s £40m valuation.
That ridiculous figure comes from a commercial valuation of the underlying land at The Valley and Sparrows Lane. Since the Aussies can’t afford £40m, it appears that they are enlisting American financial investors to fund (and therefore have ownership of) those physical assets, whilst the Aussies run the club from a commercial perspective.
This has massive downside risk for us fans. The financial investors are likely to charge commercial interest on their loan of c.10%, giving the Aussies an annual bill of c £4m just to use The Valley and Training Ground. In the medium term, without a very significant investment in players, the most likely scenario is that the club are a mid to lower Championship side and the Aussies will run out of money within 3 to 4 seasons. If that happens, we then have a football club effectively owned by financial investors with zero interest in owning a football club who just want to liquidate their land asset or sell it on for significantly more than they paid for it. Think what has happened to Coventry City for a parallel situation where they don’t own the ground.
I don’t get the “fair play to Jim white”, him giving the “takeover” air is not somehow going to force Roland’s hand.
It just, if and when it fizzles out, gives us force hope, and of course it’s the hope that kills you, I was quite happy this time two weeks ago, on the surface, that is, not deep rooted, but this has done nothing but wound a few of us up.
Of course I would love to look fantastically silly and it happens soon.
Let's look at a hypothetical example of how a separate Valley/Club deal might work.
Total takeover cost £30 million - made up of £15 million real estate and £15 million good will, EFL licence, squad value etc...
Americans pay £15 mill for the real estate and Aussies buy the rest. Americans charge a rent of £600k per year for a secure 99 year term thereby getting a 4% return, but retain ownership of the ground. Escape clause from the lease with an option for the Aussies to buy the freehold for say £20 million at any point in the future. Americans play no part whatsoever in running the club.
Ignore the actual figures above but that might work.
You’ve lifted that last line straight out of the Staprix contract template haven’t you....
so according to White, they have had talks to unlock the money so a bid can be made....FFS...so what if they say 25 mil and The Rat says 50 mil.....then they walk away.....?
Its wank, utter wank.
Maybe
Remember this is coming from the broker.
So, imagine the broker approaches Duchatelet, agrees a price with him and then puts together the consortium to buy the club.
So, broker already knows the price, her job (for which she is very well paid, no doubt) is to put the two sides together.
the Aussies will run out of money within 3 to 4 seasons. If that happens, we then have a football club effectively owned by financial investors with zero interest in owning a football club who just want to liquidate their land asset or sell it on for significantly more than they paid for it.
Slightly worrying that these Aussies have been potential buyers for so long without being able to stump up the money ! Roland will be smiling that he offset some of his losses due to JW inaccurate quotes last week, I for one was hoodwinked in to turning up last Saturday.
so according to White, they have had talks to unlock the money so a bid can be made....FFS...so what if they say 25 mil and The Rat says 50 mil.....then they walk away.....?
Its wank, utter wank.
Maybe
Remember this is coming from the broker.
So, imagine the broker approaches Duchatelet, agrees a price with him and then puts together the consortium to buy the club.
So, broker already knows the price, her job (for which she is very well paid, no doubt) is to put the two sides together.
There are some people who think that, in all cases, a situation where the club and the ground are under different ownership is "worse" than the current situation. I don't agree.
Currently, the title of the ground is a convoluted. The ground is owned by Baton, which in turn is c.90% owned by Roland. But there is a charge on the property that is shared, unequally, between seven other investors (the "former directors"). So the club is, in all intents and purposes owned by Roland and the ground is "shared" between Roland and other investors.
There *could* be a situation where the club is owned, 100%, by a consortium of Aussies, whose aspiration is purely on the return they can generate by improving the team (ie by getting promoted to the highest possible level), while the ground is owned, 100%, by a consortium of American investors who are purely and exclusively interested in the capital appreciation that will naturally accrue from a large piece of London real estate, whilst having no intention to develop the site. This would free up the football club to concentrate solely on the football; and free up the real estate investor to make capital gains, notwithstanding the performance of the team.
If anyone thinks that is something that must be avoided at all costs, I have to disagree. Because it implies that there is a preference for the current owner to continue. If that happens, Charlton will cease to exist in a few years' time. We are in terminal decline, with an owner who has no desire to risk any more of his investment and seemingly no clue as to how to exit. Make no mistake about it: with Roland in charge, Charlton will cease to be.
So, does anyone really have a preference to see Charlton fold, rather than have two distinct, committed, professional consortia owning the parts of the club in which their aspirations expertise lie?
I would disagree with that statement, it's more a state of L1 limbo really. Yes players have been sold, but enough have come in to keep us competitive in this league, we have never looked like doing a Leyton Orient, Stockport or Tranmere and plunge down the leagues.
I'd be really frustrated if we end this transfer window still owned by Roland. But that doesn't mean I'd be happy for us to be bought by anyone.
The former directors are irrelevant, a bank or other lender may have a charge over your house/factory, but it doesn't mean they own it.
I stand by my assessment that we are in terminal decline under the current ownership. In fact, I don't see how it can be perceived in any other way. A few years ago, we were a well-respected, engaged football club, with passionate fans, committed owners and managed well, within the club's means. It's not many years ago that we had one of the best teams in the country - both men's and women's. The ground was full every week, the development set up was approaching best-in-class, we were able to choose between sponsors, the scouting network was able to find and sign international players from across Europe and Africa and, in short, we had plenty of which to be proud.
The club now is a husk. Underfunded, run down and operated on the thinnest of shoestrings. We are in the lowest Football League division we have ever been; and risk being there for longer than ever before. But more importantly than that, the person that has thrust us into this position is still in charge, has no idea as to how to extricate the club from the position it's in; or to extricate himself from the monumental error he's made.
The direction of travel of the club is downhill. And it will continue to be downhill until and unless the owner sells or the club becomes defunct. I hope and pray that the former takes place sooner than the latter. But wishing that we are not in terminal decline doesn't make it not true.
The point of my post was to highlight my view that changing ownership is vastly more important than whether the club and ground are owned by one party or two. The risk associated with the club being split from the ground is obvious and real. But the risk of the current owner still being in charge is much, much larger.
Fair play to jim white, he's giving us info to the best of his knowledge and giving us national attention.
The fact people want to throw a barney on here is their own business, and, ultimately, a waste of their time and energy.
The bloke knows how many false dawns with had before and what we've had to put up with in his best mate Roland.
Going on national radio and saying its done, Rolands gone, and then just a few days later saying there hasn't even been a bid yet is taking the piss. Stop being a sensationalist prick Jim, and think before opening that massive mouth.
Im personally not getting my hopes up anytime soon but a lot of people must feel a big mugged off by his 'big revelations' last week.
Comments
We'll show someone it FFS
RD
JW
LDT
FF Rep.
Money makes them tick They, I guarantee, will not care one iota about Charlton Athetics Soccer Club.
If we could negotiate a deal with a British landlord I don't think its would be all bad, after all Its worked fine a dandy for West Ham. Perhaps we should get Boris and a Tory pier on board to lend their expertise.
The fact people want to throw a barney on here is their own business, and, ultimately, a waste of their time and energy.
He's American.
The septics are a diverse and varied nation, they are not all the same, just like any nation.
Its wank, utter wank.
If/when they do, I can only hope the EFL have the experience of Coventry firmly in the forefront of their minds before potentially putting Charlton in the same situation a few years down the line.
Total takeover cost £30 million - made up of £15 million real estate and £15 million good will, EFL licence, squad value etc...
Americans pay £15 mill for the real estate and Aussies buy the rest. Americans charge a rent of £600k per year for a secure 99 year term thereby getting a 4% return, but retain ownership of the ground. Escape clause from the lease with an option for the Aussies to buy the freehold for say £20 million at any point in the future. Americans play no part whatsoever in running the club.
Ignore the actual figures above but that might work.
Are they robbing a bank?
That ridiculous figure comes from a commercial valuation of the underlying land at The Valley and Sparrows Lane. Since the Aussies can’t afford £40m, it appears that they are enlisting American financial investors to fund (and therefore have ownership of) those physical assets, whilst the Aussies run the club from a commercial perspective.
This has massive downside risk for us fans. The financial investors are likely to charge commercial interest on their loan of c.10%, giving the Aussies an annual bill of c £4m just to use The Valley and Training Ground. In the medium term, without a very significant investment in players, the most likely scenario is that the club are a mid to lower Championship side and the Aussies will run out of money within 3 to 4 seasons. If that happens, we then have a football club effectively owned by financial investors with zero interest in owning a football club who just want to liquidate their land asset or sell it on for significantly more than they paid for it. Think what has happened to Coventry City for a parallel situation where they don’t own the ground.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/969170415?-11197:833
It just, if and when it fizzles out, gives us force hope, and of course it’s the hope that kills you, I was quite happy this time two weeks ago, on the surface, that is, not deep rooted, but this has done nothing but wound a few of us up.
Of course I would love to look fantastically silly and it happens soon.
Remember this is coming from the broker.
So, imagine the broker approaches Duchatelet, agrees a price with him and then puts together the consortium to buy the club.
So, broker already knows the price, her job (for which she is very well paid, no doubt) is to put the two sides together.
#justselltheclub
The club now is a husk. Underfunded, run down and operated on the thinnest of shoestrings. We are in the lowest Football League division we have ever been; and risk being there for longer than ever before. But more importantly than that, the person that has thrust us into this position is still in charge, has no idea as to how to extricate the club from the position it's in; or to extricate himself from the monumental error he's made.
The direction of travel of the club is downhill. And it will continue to be downhill until and unless the owner sells or the club becomes defunct. I hope and pray that the former takes place sooner than the latter. But wishing that we are not in terminal decline doesn't make it not true.
The point of my post was to highlight my view that changing ownership is vastly more important than whether the club and ground are owned by one party or two. The risk associated with the club being split from the ground is obvious and real. But the risk of the current owner still being in charge is much, much larger.
Going on national radio and saying its done, Rolands gone, and then just a few days later saying there hasn't even been a bid yet is taking the piss. Stop being a sensationalist prick Jim, and think before opening that massive mouth.
Im personally not getting my hopes up anytime soon but a lot of people must feel a big mugged off by his 'big revelations' last week.