Seems like something significant is going on ( thanks Redhenry) but I somehow doubt this is days away. Would be good if it’s done before the window closes but I’m thinking we might just miss out on that deadline. I have no inside info just my thoughts.
Think you are right...but if any potential buyers are serious then they will also want it to be complete before the end of the window because otherwise what they are buying is more likely to decline in value...
As a wise man once said. WIOTOS
Wise man? I know Henry keeps banging on, but who else said it???
Cut out the personal abuse please, you're better than that @AFKABartram
PS Steve Kavanagh said it at a Bromley Addicks meeting once when he was out CEO
Seems like something significant is going on ( thanks Redhenry) but I somehow doubt this is days away. Would be good if it’s done before the window closes but I’m thinking we might just miss out on that deadline. I have no inside info just my thoughts.
Think you are right...but if any potential buyers are serious then they will also want it to be complete before the end of the window because otherwise what they are buying is more likely to decline in value...
That’s very true. However a millions of pounds deal will have other priorities. Ideally done to allow work to start but I doubt things will be rushed on that basis. As a wise man once said. WIOTOS
Personally if I knew we were being taken over by an ambitious new owner with the clubs best interests at heart I could handle another season in League 1 (just the one mind!)
Seems like something significant is going on ( thanks Redhenry) but I somehow doubt this is days away. Would be good if it’s done before the window closes but I’m thinking we might just miss out on that deadline. I have no inside info just my thoughts.
Think you are right...but if any potential buyers are serious then they will also want it to be complete before the end of the window because otherwise what they are buying is more likely to decline in value...
As a wise man once said. WIOTOS
Wise man? I know Henry keeps banging on, but who else said it???
Shall be do some more Maths whilst we all F5 constantly?
Add the £18m to buy the club, the £55m debt, the £12m spent on the training ground and the £20m spent on players to find out how much Roland has spent on Charlton. Then add £7m of debt to the previous directors and you have what must be the asking price.
Seems like something significant is going on ( thanks Redhenry) but I somehow doubt this is days away. Would be good if it’s done before the window closes but I’m thinking we might just miss out on that deadline. I have no inside info just my thoughts.
Think you are right...but if any potential buyers are serious then they will also want it to be complete before the end of the window because otherwise what they are buying is more likely to decline in value...
As a wise man once said. WIOTOS
Wise man? I know Henry keeps banging on, but who else said it???
Somebody call
Wait what, this isn’t the message we’re waiting for @Redhenry
Shall be do some more Maths whilst we all F5 constantly?
Add the £18m to buy the club, the £55m debt, the £12m spent on the training ground and the £20m spent on players to find out how much Roland has spent on Charlton. Then add £7m of debt to the previous directors and you have what must be the asking price.
Shall be do some more Maths whilst we all F5 constantly?
Add the £18m to buy the club, the £55m debt, the £12m spent on the training ground and the £20m spent on players to find out how much Roland has spent on Charlton. Then add £7m of debt to the previous directors and you have what must be the asking price.
No calculators and show your working.
Let me do the English lesson first - typical of me to end up with a number of after work lessons - and then I will get cracking on your sums. :-)
Napa - I would love to see the business case/ trading projections to warrant a £75-80mn investment in acquiring Baton and its collective assets.
I would question whether the generics of industry trading profiling applies to professional football. The specific realities are very different from the potential. Equally CAFC has since Jan 2014 specifically operated outside of an industry norm.
This financial debate has been painful though earlier discussions regarding 3rd party player ownership offers a possible exit plan. I apologise for extending the pain.
We all have to remember; - the ethos of this administration was player trading. I would not be surprised if there was a specific financial assessment recorded on every senior player - the club has been operated as a vehicle for such trading - M. Duchatelet told us Day 1 his status was as an investor
There can be no confusion in terms of the clubs indebtedness.
M. Duchatelet in Jan 2014 via his corporate investment company Staprix NV "uplifted" the club existing debt to Slater/ Jiminez (Cash) reported as £18.6mn i.e. Staprix NV paid £18.6mn to Messrs Slater/ Jiminez/ Cash to settle the club debts to those entities.
In return for this funding Staprix NV took ownership of Baton Ltd and the Charlton group of companies and their assets, including The Valley, Sparrows Lane, the "club", the "golden ticket" and the players' registrations & contracts. Staprix NV appointed its own executives to run the club.
Staprix has since sanctioned/ funded an increase of the clubs debts to circa £55mn to provide the club with the money to meet operational losses (inc. the net transfer position), repay an outstanding external mortgage and fund pitch, stadium & training ground refurbishment.
Please recognise; - the structure of the club debt positions Staprix NV as the clubs' banker. - the club debt is positioned as a performing asset in Staprix books. - for Staprix (M.Duchatelet) to be repaid someone at some stage has to pay them £55mn.
If Staprix (subject to the agreement of the clubs former directors) agree by a deed of sale to release its ownership/ security of the assets detailed to new owners in settlement of their full debt for anything less than £55mn they will incur a loss.
I suspect M Duchatelets' modus operandi would not allow him to "determine" any part of this debt as a loss .....yet. He can and will likely be willing to carry a part of the debt for as long as needed to secure a maximum possible return.
To try to continue Milo's analogy let us position the club debt to Staprix at £55mn secured against the sundry assets of Baton.
His first exit priority is to get out from under funding ongoing losses i.e. stop the debt to Staprix increasing. Hence the "dalliance" of separating club and ground by selling the club but retaining ownership of The Valley & Sparrows Lane allowing a rental of those facilities to the new owner. This is a STVV/ Stayen business model but with the scale of debt involved the numbers are unlikely to stack up.
I have no direct knowledge of M.Duchatelet but have had the experience of working with people of a similar profile. My expectation is he feels throughout this experience he is the injured party. If only people had followed his ideas and plans it would all have worked out fine. He will remain convinced to this day his player trading philosophy was the right one. If only people would listen.
He is no doubt a very single minded individual, a trait which has probably served him very well in accruing his wealth to this point. Every strength however has an element of weakness and for that many of us feel we have paid a heavy emotional price.
Totally agree. Duchatelet has wasted money, Duchatelet isn’t going to get it all back from anyone, Duchatelet needs a face saver and needs to be told to FUCK OFF.
If RD paid no cash when acquiring the club and just took over £18.6m of debt - then the value of the club back in Jan 14 was £18.6m - I very much doubt there were some hidden assets at the time of which neither Slater or RD were aware. The value of the club will have fallen considerably since then by any sensible measure - my guess is that any sensible investor would start their bid somewhere in the region of £10m. This would leave RD c£45m of debt to write off - but if he carries on any longer the figure will get even larger. Even he must realise that his present management team are only capable of destroying value.
The price accepted by the previous shareholders was not the value of the club on any financial valuation, it was a distressed sale of £18.6m debt at zero premium. RD, as explained by @Grapevine49, had the strategy of becoming the banker for the club, often confused by KM and others as being an investor in the club. His mindset is the sale of his banking business where he still owns the banks assets.
Napa - I would love to see the business case/ trading projections to warrant a £75-80mn investment in acquiring Baton and its collective assets.
I would question whether the generics of industry trading profiling applies to professional football. The specific realities are very different from the potential. Equally CAFC has since Jan 2014 specifically operated outside of an industry norm.
This financial debate has been painful though earlier discussions regarding 3rd party player ownership offers a possible exit plan. I apologise for extending the pain.
We all have to remember; - the ethos of this administration was player trading. I would not be surprised if there was a specific financial assessment recorded on every senior player - the club has been operated as a vehicle for such trading - M. Duchatelet told us Day 1 his status was as an investor
There can be no confusion in terms of the clubs indebtedness.
M. Duchatelet in Jan 2014 via his corporate investment company Staprix NV "uplifted" the club existing debt to Slater/ Jiminez (Cash) reported as £18.6mn i.e. Staprix NV paid £18.6mn to Messrs Slater/ Jiminez/ Cash to settle the club debts to those entities.
In return for this funding Staprix NV took ownership of Baton Ltd and the Charlton group of companies and their assets, including The Valley, Sparrows Lane, the "club", the "golden ticket" and the players' registrations & contracts. Staprix NV appointed its own executives to run the club.
Staprix has since sanctioned/ funded an increase of the clubs debts to circa £55mn to provide the club with the money to meet operational losses (inc. the net transfer position), repay an outstanding external mortgage and fund pitch, stadium & training ground refurbishment.
Please recognise; - the structure of the club debt positions Staprix NV as the clubs' banker. - the club debt is positioned as a performing asset in Staprix books. - for Staprix (M.Duchatelet) to be repaid someone at some stage has to pay them £55mn.
If Staprix (subject to the agreement of the clubs former directors) agree by a deed of sale to release its ownership/ security of the assets detailed to new owners in settlement of their full debt for anything less than £55mn they will incur a loss.
I suspect M Duchatelets' modus operandi would not allow him to "determine" any part of this debt as a loss .....yet. He can and will likely be willing to carry a part of the debt for as long as needed to secure a maximum possible return.
To try to continue Milo's analogy let us position the club debt to Staprix at £55mn secured against the sundry assets of Baton.
His first exit priority is to get out from under funding ongoing losses i.e. stop the debt to Staprix increasing. Hence the "dalliance" of separating club and ground by selling the club but retaining ownership of The Valley & Sparrows Lane allowing a rental of those facilities to the new owner. This is a STVV/ Stayen business model but with the scale of debt involved the numbers are unlikely to stack up.
I have no direct knowledge of M.Duchatelet but have had the experience of working with people of a similar profile. My expectation is he feels throughout this experience he is the injured party. If only people had followed his ideas and plans it would all have worked out fine. He will remain convinced to this day his player trading philosophy was the right one. If only people would listen.
He is no doubt a very single minded individual, a trait which has probably served him very well in accruing his wealth to this point. Every strength however has an element of weakness and for that many of us feel we have paid a heavy emotional price.
Totally agree. Duchatelet has wasted money, Duchatelet isn’t going to get it all back from anyone, Duchatelet needs a face saver and needs to be told to FUCK OFF.
If RD paid no cash when acquiring the club and just took over £18.6m of debt - then the value of the club back in Jan 14 was £18.6m - I very much doubt there were some hidden assets at the time of which neither Slater or RD were aware. The value of the club will have fallen considerably since then by any sensible measure - my guess is that any sensible investor would start their bid somewhere in the region of £10m. This would leave RD c£45m of debt to write off - but if he carries on any longer the figure will get even larger. Even he must realise that his present management team are only capable of destroying value.
The price accepted by the previous shareholders was not the value of the club on any financial valuation, it was a distressed sale of £18.6m debt at zero premium. RD, as explained by @Grapevine49, had the strategy of becoming the banker for the club, often confused by KM and others as being an investor in the club. His mindset is the sale of his banking business where he still owns the banks assets.
If the sale of £18.6m was distressed, I think RD will find it even more distressing when it comes to try and dispose of £55m of debts
Shall be do some more Maths whilst we all F5 constantly?
Add the £18m to buy the club, the £55m debt, the £12m spent on the training ground and the £20m spent on players to find out how much Roland has spent on Charlton. Then add £7m of debt to the previous directors and you have what must be the asking price.
Shall be do some more Maths whilst we all F5 constantly?
Add the £18m to buy the club, the £55m debt, the £12m spent on the training ground and the £20m spent on players to find out how much Roland has spent on Charlton. Then add £7m of debt to the previous directors and you have what must be the asking price.
No calculators and show your working.
Deduct the Lookman 11m
And the thirty quid expertly secured for Cousins...
The American guy from Moneyball is involved as well apparently. Some serious money there if that’s the case.
Not necessarily good news from a Barnsley perspective, after all, Roland’s trying to do the moneyball thing with charlton (and executing it very poorly).
Comments
PS Steve Kavanagh said it at a Bromley Addicks meeting once when he was out CEO
The slogan is 'Join the Pride' and I'm far too scared to click it for fear it's Millwall.
No calculators and show your working.
Where am I going wrong?
Let me do the English lesson first - typical of me to end up with a number of after work lessons - and then I will get cracking on your sums. :-)
From BBC website-:
Barnsley: Consortium completes takeover of Championship club
A consortium led by Chinese businessman Chien Lee has completed a takeover of Championship club Barnsley.
Fed up. Could do with some cheery news.