The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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I don't know whether to be happy, sad or indifferent now !0
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If you really want something, sometimes you pay over the odds to get it.3
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No one is making £200m a year in the Prem ?Swisdom said:
As I say - If I had billions in the bank I'd pay £50m for something worth £25m if I was confident that I'd be picking up £200m a year in a couple of years as opposed to nothing by not going for it.DRAddick said:
Well by that reasoning he might as well hold out for £100M.Swisdom said:If either of the parties was seriously interested in us and were also seriously wealthy then £25m or £45m wouldn't really be a problem. If they are that mega rich and have visions of the Premiership then they know they will be getting Premier league money in a few years and therefore the club would be worth a lot more than currently.
What this tells me is neither interested party has mega wealth because in the grand scheme of things - ie Premier league money - £25m isn't that much
He wants £45m or £50m
I know seriously wealthy people don't get where they are by being daft with money - but I bet you they've all taken calculated risks to get where they are. That's what we are. If you were confident of bankrolling us into the Premier league then this additional £25m woulddn't peturb you...provided you were mega rich in the first place
Who is making money after wages , transfer fees etc have been paid ??1 -
Don’t buy this I am afraid. Just because you are minted does not mean you will pay over the odds. Plenty of clubs to buy instead of us.Swisdom said:If either of the parties was seriously interested in us and were also seriously wealthy then £25m or £45m wouldn't really be a problem. If they are that mega rich and have visions of the Premiership then they know they will be getting Premier league money in a few years and therefore the club would be worth a lot more than currently.
What this tells me is neither interested party has mega wealth because in the grand scheme of things - ie Premier league money - £25m isn't that much
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Technically not but it shouldn't be allowed in my opinion.Airman Brown said:
I don't think it is third-party ownership? If, for example, RD was entitled to a fixed sum or a percentage of any fee for Konsa, I'm not sure it would be any different from Charlton being due a sell-on from Liverpool for Gomez. Or that money being due to a bank on receipt. Nobody would argue that Charlton - or the bank - currently "own" Gomez.The Red Robin said:Sounds like Duchatelet wants to hold onto rights to player fees like he did with Batshuayi at Standard Liege. I'm sure our fully competent friends at the FA and EFL wouldn't allow that form of third party ownership.
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Poissbly united now and city in the future?oohaahmortimer said:
No one is making £200m a year in the Prem ?
Who is making money after wages , transfer fees etc have been paid ??
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I agree - They can sell us for a lot more than they bought us for.oohaahmortimer said:
No one is making £200m a year in the Prem ?Swisdom said:
As I say - If I had billions in the bank I'd pay £50m for something worth £25m if I was confident that I'd be picking up £200m a year in a couple of years as opposed to nothing by not going for it.DRAddick said:
Well by that reasoning he might as well hold out for £100M.Swisdom said:If either of the parties was seriously interested in us and were also seriously wealthy then £25m or £45m wouldn't really be a problem. If they are that mega rich and have visions of the Premiership then they know they will be getting Premier league money in a few years and therefore the club would be worth a lot more than currently.
What this tells me is neither interested party has mega wealth because in the grand scheme of things - ie Premier league money - £25m isn't that much
He wants £45m or £50m
I know seriously wealthy people don't get where they are by being daft with money - but I bet you they've all taken calculated risks to get where they are. That's what we are. If you were confident of bankrolling us into the Premier league then this additional £25m woulddn't peturb you...provided you were mega rich in the first place
Who is making money after wages , transfer fees etc have been paid ??
At the end of the day I have no idea why anyone would buy a football team anyway - they are just a cash cow.
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1. You are ignoring the losses they build up getting to the PL which are likely to be considerable and would not surprise if over £100M just to stand a chance.Swisdom said:
I agree - They can sell us for a lot more than they bought us for.oohaahmortimer said:
No one is making £200m a year in the Prem ?Swisdom said:
As I say - If I had billions in the bank I'd pay £50m for something worth £25m if I was confident that I'd be picking up £200m a year in a couple of years as opposed to nothing by not going for it.DRAddick said:
Well by that reasoning he might as well hold out for £100M.Swisdom said:If either of the parties was seriously interested in us and were also seriously wealthy then £25m or £45m wouldn't really be a problem. If they are that mega rich and have visions of the Premiership then they know they will be getting Premier league money in a few years and therefore the club would be worth a lot more than currently.
What this tells me is neither interested party has mega wealth because in the grand scheme of things - ie Premier league money - £25m isn't that much
He wants £45m or £50m
I know seriously wealthy people don't get where they are by being daft with money - but I bet you they've all taken calculated risks to get where they are. That's what we are. If you were confident of bankrolling us into the Premier league then this additional £25m woulddn't peturb you...provided you were mega rich in the first place
Who is making money after wages , transfer fees etc have been paid ??
At the end of the day I have no idea why anyone would buy a football team anyway - they are just a cash cow.
2. How is a business which runs at a loss of 10m pa outside the PL a ‘cash cow’?
No wonder the contracting business sees so many company failures !4 -
You won't be picking up 200m a year in a couple of years though. You'd only get that if we were promoted 2 years running (which is unlikely) and you'd need to buy pretty much a whole new squad on top of the 50m purchase price to get us there. So given that some championship sides are now spending upwards of 15m on a player, how much extra is that going to cost you?Swisdom said:
As I say - If I had billions in the bank I'd pay £50m for something worth £25m if I was confident that I'd be picking up £200m a year in a couple of years as opposed to nothing by not going for it.DRAddick said:
Well by that reasoning he might as well hold out for £100M.Swisdom said:If either of the parties was seriously interested in us and were also seriously wealthy then £25m or £45m wouldn't really be a problem. If they are that mega rich and have visions of the Premiership then they know they will be getting Premier league money in a few years and therefore the club would be worth a lot more than currently.
What this tells me is neither interested party has mega wealth because in the grand scheme of things - ie Premier league money - £25m isn't that much
He wants £45m or £50m
I know seriously wealthy people don't get where they are by being daft with money - but I bet you they've all taken calculated risks to get where they are. That's what we are. If you were confident of bankrolling us into the Premier league then this additional £25m woulddn't peturb you...provided you were mega rich in the first place
You will almost inevitably lose money, so starting out by paying 25m over the odds isn't a great starting point.1 -
It's not happening is it? My celebratory Pot Noodle is not needed....2
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Four hundred and eighty five pages.0
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Of unadulterated hearsay, bullshit, fantasy, argument AND Kerry Katona...Oh_Yoni_Boy said:Four hundred and eighty five pages.
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Probably another 485 more pages to go as well! Mostly about pot noodles and Kerry Katona and the validity of @DOUCHER ' responses0
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Did someone mention Kerry Katona?
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My eyes are hurting. Is that a would ya pic?
Yes, 4 pints (revised down from 5)3 -
re the latest KK pic , I'm waiting for ValleyGary's response before I agree with him
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Well, that’s my stress handled for a few minutes.
So, this takeover, where exactly are we with it again?0 -
Good Grief !!!!!!! The earlier version it's a yes, this is not pleasant, it's quite put me off my Vol au vents0
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Much more to come though - I hear on the grapevine that Henners gets a promote when it hits 5,000 pages.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:Four hundred and eighty five pages.
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That’s all woman that. Pure filth.18
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i'm with him on kk, but he needs his head testing re: katie hopkinsoohaahmortimer said:
re the latest KK pic , I'm waiting for ValleyGary's response before I agree with him0 -
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I am only 4ft 11 so I would only come up to her......0
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In terms of rights to the contingent revenues on players' sell on rights or triggering performance, appearence criteria there is no 3rd party ownership.
Whoever the rights are assigned to has no direct/ indirect control over any aspect of the players employment. The employer is liable to pay such sums in the event of any one of the criteria being triggered no matter who the ultimate beneficiary.
The concept just because someone has the money to pay for something, then the real value be damned, is bizarre.
Would you do that? Now if in your own value set criteria owning the club was the be all and end all then you might but in reality it is a very quick way to lose what money you have made in the first place as I suggest M. Duchatelet has discovered.
On what basis was the club worth the £18.6mn debt he assumed, when considering the £7mn lien against club assets and the outstanding £2.5mn commercial mortgage is matter for his advisors.
He/ they chose to gazump other interested parties because he had a €20mn dividend taken from Standard Liege burning a hole in his corporate investment pocket. It provided him the opportunity of diverting other non performing assets (players) into a more useful and hopefully more productive channel. It did not work.
In our current situation the present apparent hiatus is unsurprising. The devil is always, always in the detail. The concern is the longer the process takes the greater the difficulty in concluding the deal. The spectre of buyers/ investors remorse looms ever larger. Those little noises in your head become ever louder to the point you almost start congratulating yourself for starting to walk away.
There is no secret formula. Buyers/ investors come to the market to do a deal. Behind them will come an army of naysayers, immensely valuable people, who will ask repeatedly "why are you/ we doing this again?" or surely there must be a better deal out there. The justification of the costs involved to this point deflect to it being a worthwhile exercise in testing and understanding the market should another opportunity present itself.
I have absolutely no information on the proposed sale of the club.
I am entirely comfortable with the information shared on this and other web sites and by the clubs own official/ unofficial statements. It would probably serve us all to register such information and indeed the deal itself as being researched, shared and negotiated on a "best endeavours" basis.
The market noise suggests considerable work has been done by someone somewhere. Whether matters have stalled to the point no accommodation can be reached will be known to only a few parties and in this case primarily one.
That we have reached this position remains the responsibility of one individual.
This delusion you can burden any trading organisation with unprecedented debt without consequence comes at a cost. Unless we see material progress in terms of the clubs playing status or in the removal of any barriers to completing the sale the club is now in limbo.
It is a limbo we can accommodate unhealthily until the end of the season.
At some point there is always, always a tipping point. For every £ or € spent someone somewhere has to pay.
The extra £20mn sought (if true) is £20mn you do not get to spend again. It is the equivalent of 2 or 3 years trading or a years trading and a completed training ground. It is the difference between the numbers stacking up and the business case working and the whole thing collapsing.
The biggest, biggest business failure is launching an under capitalised business or project.
To put it into perspective on top of the acquisition price, in this market you will want five years operational funding and structural investment on and off the field, acquiring better players and finishing the training ground and stadium.
Depending on margins allowed it could be another £50-£80mn so I suggest we may need to be a little less disparaging in terms of potential future investors. The extra £20mn and/ or trading away future contingent revenue all come into play.
Someone has some serious decisions to make. Does he fold the cards or play another hand. Just how will staring down the barrel of a £50mn debt plus £7mn directors loans, plus contractual obligations to players and staff impact future operational funding?
None of us or our trusted sources can know. In truth I suggest it is quite likely the decision maker himself having explored the market remains undecided.
In truth such issues can be resolved in a heartbeat but in the meantime I thank those who have contributed what information they have been able to share, though the concept/ vision of Kerry Katona snorting anything is probably an image I could have done without.
I just hope to God we beat Shrewsbury on Saturday.
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Please mate, we’re trying to have a conversation about Kerry Katona here.Grapevine49 said:In terms of rights to the contingent revenues on players' sell on rights or triggering performance, appearence criteria there is no 3rd party ownership.
Whoever the rights are assigned to has no direct/ indirect control over any aspect of the players employment. The employer is liable to pay such sums in the event of any one of the criteria being triggered no matter who the ultimate beneficiary.
The concept just because someone has the money to pay for something then the real vale be damned is bizarre.
Would you do that? Now if in you own value set criteria owning the club was the be all and end all then you might but in reality it is a very quick way to lose what money you have made in the first place as I suggest M. Duchatelet has discovered.
On what basis was the club worth the £18.6mn debt he assumed, when considering the £7mn lien against club assets and the outstanding £2.5mn commercial mortgage is matter for his advisors.
He/ they chose to gazump other interested parties because he had a €20mn dividend taken from Standard Liege burning a hole in his corporate investment pocket. It provided him the opportunity of diverting other non performing assets (players) into a more useful and hopefully more productive channel. It did not work.
In our current situation the present apparent hiatus is unsurprising. The devil is always, always in the detail. The concern is the longer the process takes the greater the difficulty in concluding the deal. The spectre of buyers/ investors remorse looms ever larger. Those little noises in your head become ever louder to the point you almost start congratulating yourself for starting to walk away.
There is no secret formula. Buyers/ investors come to the market to do a deal. Behind them will come an army of naysayers, immensely valuable people, who will ask repeatedly "why are you/ we doing this again?" or surely there must be a better deal out there. The justification of the costs involved to this point deflect to it being a worthwhile exercise in testing and understanding the market should another opportunity present itself.
I have absolutely no information on the proposed sale of the club.
I am entirely comfortable with the information shared on this and other web sites and by the clubs own official/ unofficial statements. It would probably serve us all to register such information and indeed the deal itself as being researched, shared and negotiated on a "best endeavours" basis.
The market noise suggests considerable work has been done by someone somewhere. Whether matters have stalled to the point no accommodation can be reached will be known to only a few parties and in this case primarily one.
That we have reached this position remains the responsibility of one individual.
This delusion you can burden any trading organisation with unprecedented debt without consequence comes at a cost. Unless we see material progress in terms of the clubs playing status or in the removal of any barriers to completing the sale the club is now in limbo.
It is a limbo we can accommodate unhealthily until the end of the season.
At some point there is always, always a tipping point. For every £ or € spent someone somewhere has to pay.
The extra £20mn sought (if true) is £20mn you do not get to spend again. It is the equivalent of 2 or 3 years trading or a years trading and a completed training ground. It is the difference between the numbers stacking up and the business case working and the whole thing collapsing.
The biggest, biggest business failure is launching an under capitalised business or project.
To put it into perspective on top of the acquisition price, in this market you will want five years operational funding and structural investment on and off the field, acquiring better players and finishing the training ground and stadium.
Depending on margins allowed it could be another £50-£80mn so I suggest we may need to be a little less disparaging in terms of potential future investors. The extra £20mn and/ or trading away future contingent revenue all come into play.
Someone has some serious decisions to make. Does he fold the cards or play another hand. Just how will staring down the barrel of a £50mn debt plus £7mn directors loans, plus contractual obligations to players and staff impact future operational funding?
None of us or our trusted sources can know. In truth I suggest it is quite likely the decision maker himself having explored the market remains undecided.
In truth such issues can be resolved in a heartbeat but in the meantime I thank those who have contributed what information they have been able to share, though the concept/ vision of Kerry Katona snorting anything is probably an image I could have done without.
I just hope to God we beat Shrewsbury on Saturday.
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How can someone so chunky have a visible 6 pack ??4
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Is all this Kerry Katona stuff code that our new owners are from Iceland??AddickUpNorth said:Did someone mention Kerry Katona?
Can someone ITTK please confirm the nationality of the mystery bidder? Is it gunna be Herman??6 -
It’s all in the initials. Kerry Katona = KK add another K on and you will reveal the identity of the new owners.addick100 said:
Is all this Kerry Katona stuff code that our new owners are from Iceland??AddickUpNorth said:Did someone mention Kerry Katona?
Can someone ITTK please confirm the nationality of the mystery bidder? Is it gunna be Herman??0
