Overseas postal ballot arrived today. Still haven't completely decided who will vote for but know who I definitely won't vote for! Hoping at least that May doesn't get a sweeping majority after she treats the general public with disdain.
Theresa May is coming across terribly on this election debate interview.
Zero figures for anything and refuses to rule out rises in National Insurance and Income tax.
Well Corbyn is proposing tax rises so unless that's ok because it is only certain people that would be affected, I make that even stevens.
The difference as far as I see it is Corbyn has told us where he will increase taxes and who will pay a little bit more. May says she "intends" not to raise taxes but won't rule it out - this leaves everyone in the dark on where and who will pay.
Only one position of the two above is strong and stable.
Theresa May is coming across terribly on this election debate interview.
Zero figures for anything and refuses to rule out rises in National Insurance and Income tax.
Well Corbyn is proposing tax rises so unless that's ok because it is only certain people that would be affected, I make that even stevens.
Corbyn at least says anyone earning under £80,000 won't be affected. The only assurance May has given is to businesses.
She also mentions Brexit at the end of every sentence.
No surprise there. Not watching it but I can imagine she's paying lip service to SMEs as the backbone of the economy but in real terms won't do anything to actually help. Multinationals are her bed fellows
Well if somebody can't care for themselves due to dementia and they have to go in a home, they have to pay unless they have a health problem outside of dementia that means they have to go into residential home - that is a dementia tax.
In the main correct although not entirely true (but too long to go into here about continuing care). The difference is that has always been the case down to your last £23k, the "new, original, before we change our mind" policy changed that to until you are down to your last £100k. All in a residential home. Yes agree care at your own home is different but in general dementia patients can quite quickly need 24hr care so tend to end up in a care home.
The bottom line is that it has got into such a state due to council cuts that sick people with dementia and other conditions are paying 40% more (Daily Mail figure) for their care. If any of you lot want to defend that - well you have to look in the mirror - but it is something we all should contribute towards rather than nick it off sick people because we can't afford to pay for it whilst we can afford tax breaks for the very wealthy.
This one is interesting, I suspect it is true at times as otherwise the mail wouldn't have written it however my experience (3 care homes) is they charge the same whether council paid or individual paid but I know thats only3 homes and there are reports to the contrary. Run me by the tax breaks for the rich over the past 7 years?
It is all a complete mess really and I'm glad the Tories have performed a U-turn - if anybody wants to claim it is anything else they are delusional in the extreme.
Of course it's a U Turn, they thought people would be happy that the cap goes up from £23k to £100k but didn't appreciate the backlash on the at home care. Although to be fair the few "oldun's" i've seen up in arms about it didn't understand it and just hear 'dementia tax'.
Well if somebody can't care for themselves due to dementia and they have to go in a home, they have to pay unless they have a health problem outside of dementia that means they have to go into residential home - that is a dementia tax. If they have to go into residential care due to other health conditions the cost is covered by teh NHS. But the home care is technically a tax on being ill as other illnesses come into play. But many people need care at home due to dementia - so it is a dementia tax too unless you are a pedant. The bottom line is that it has got into such a state due to council cuts that sick people with dementia and other conditions are paying 40% more (Daily Mail figure) for their care. If any of you lot want to defend that - well you have to look in the mirror - but it is something we all should contribute towards rather than nick it off sick people because we can't afford to pay for it whilst we can afford tax breaks for the very wealthy.
It is all a complete mess really and I'm glad the Tories have performed a U-turn - if anybody wants to claim it is anything else they are delusional in the extreme. And if you want to get picky with definitions rather than want to bring some fairness in, it says a lot about you. Anybody who has seen my posts know I have been going on about this injustice for years. When I found out about it, I was ashamed!
This is one thing I will praise the daily mail for -they have campaigned against this injustice for the past few years. It makes them sick like it makes me - we have that in common.
Sorry Muttley, some of this is definitely not true. I know this from personal experience.
Rob7Lee is correct as far as I know. This does not solely relate to dementia and if you've got more than £23K at the moment you have to pay for residential care or care at home, as far as I am aware.
Well if somebody can't care for themselves due to dementia and they have to go in a home, they have to pay unless they have a health problem outside of dementia that means they have to go into residential home - that is a dementia tax.
In the main correct although not entirely true (but too long to go into here about continuing care). The difference is that has always been the case down to your last £23k, the "new, original, before we change our mind" policy changed that to until you are down to your last £100k. All in a residential home. Yes agree care at your own home is different but in general dementia patients can quite quickly need 24hr care so tend to end up in a care home.
The bottom line is that it has got into such a state due to council cuts that sick people with dementia and other conditions are paying 40% more (Daily Mail figure) for their care. If any of you lot want to defend that - well you have to look in the mirror - but it is something we all should contribute towards rather than nick it off sick people because we can't afford to pay for it whilst we can afford tax breaks for the very wealthy.
This one is interesting, I suspect it is true at times as otherwise the mail wouldn't have written it however my experience (3 care homes) is they charge the same whether council paid or individual paid but I know thats only3 homes and there are reports to the contrary. Run me by the tax breaks for the rich over the past 7 years?
It is all a complete mess really and I'm glad the Tories have performed a U-turn - if anybody wants to claim it is anything else they are delusional in the extreme.
Of course it's a U Turn, they thought people would be happy that the cap goes up from £23k to £100k but didn't appreciate the backlash on the at home care. Although to be fair the few "oldun's" i've seen up in arms about it didn't understand it and just hear 'dementia tax'.
They have to pay if they don't have a health problem that is requires the care - that is where the NHS takes over. Because as many people have dementia - it is not classified as a health problem as the state doesn't want to pay for it. Unless you have dementia in Scotland of course.
There was a peice on ITV breakfast last week when all sides admitted self funding residents pay 40% more. It had the East Enders actor who was exposing the injustice on it. The only contentious bit was the spokesperson for the system said self funders were paying the true cost of their care and the councils were paying massively less than the true cost. Work that one out!
Theresa May is claiming we should trust her and it is not a U-turn right now on TV!
It is a dementia tax, and a stroke tax and a cancer tax..... It is unfair to ask vulnerable sick people to pay when the risk should be spread. Which one of us will need it, we don't know. It could be you Rob, it could be me - but any civilised democracy would spread the risk and make this fair.
Of course it's a U Turn, they thought people would be happy that the cap goes up from £23k to £100k but didn't appreciate the backlash on the at home care. Although to be fair the few "oldun's" i've seen up in arms about it didn't understand it and just hear 'dementia tax'.
Is that how the cap has changed? I thought it was 23k plus your home to a minimum of 100k estate but I could easily of misunderstood. How can you not expect this backlash, when at the same time, you are advocating a policy of increased care at home? Jeremy Hunt clearly stated last week they were deliberate in not implementing a cap.
Theresa May talking about shameful politics, while attributing the backlash to miscommunication and unclear policy briefings, is simply hypocritical.
People in her own party are admitting it is a U-turn. George Osborne - an ex chancellor has said it clearly is. May has asked the British public to trust her and has blatantly lied to them on TV. They are not stupid - they know what has happened - the realisation of the damage this policy could have was come to and they back-tracked. I'm glad they did but you have to suck it in an admit what happened when it is clear as day! These are not the credentials of a prime minister. When the trust goes, there is nothing left.
...I'm still yet to read a single reason to vote for Conservatives, anyone else thinking the same?
I genuinely think they were deluded enough to think that a vote for Brexit, the rise of UKIP and the gradual decline in confidence in Labour to represent their core meant they are suddenly going to just sweep in and pick up these votes as if it were taking candy from a baby. I genuinely believe they feel they don't have to explain themselves because their core support remains and anyone who voted labour or UKIP is probably too simple to have to offer substantive policy to. They've lived off Labour's demise in the final few years of Blair/Brown. Problem is, like our football club, the longer they stay in power, the quicker we realise they're not representative of anyone else but their own.
I'm not an economist, I don't understand figures, and although some of you will probably tell me the gap between the rich and the poor is closing based on GDP or whatever metric, sure doesn't feel like that
I certainly think the current political climate has contributed to a rise in racism, or at least people thinking it is acceptable to voice racist ideas. Last couple of times I have been back to the UK with my wife, who is not British, we have definitely felt this.
...I'm still yet to read a single reason to vote for Conservatives, anyone else thinking the same?
I genuinely think they were deluded enough to think that a vote for Brexit, the rise of UKIP and the gradual decline in confidence in Labour to represent their core meant they are suddenly going to just sweep in and pick up these votes as if it were taking candy from a baby. I genuinely believe they feel they don't have to explain themselves because their core support remains and anyone who voted labour or UKIP is probably too simple to have to offer substantive policy to. They've lived off Labour's demise in the final few years of Blair/Brown. Problem is, like our football club, the longer they stay in power, the quicker we realise they're not representative of anyone else but their own.
I'm not an economist, I don't understand figures, and although some of you will probably tell me the gap between the rich and the poor is closing based on GDP or whatever metric, sure doesn't feel like that
Well if somebody can't care for themselves due to dementia and they have to go in a home, they have to pay unless they have a health problem outside of dementia that means they have to go into residential home - that is a dementia tax.
In the main correct although not entirely true (but too long to go into here about continuing care). The difference is that has always been the case down to your last £23k, the "new, original, before we change our mind" policy changed that to until you are down to your last £100k. All in a residential home. Yes agree care at your own home is different but in general dementia patients can quite quickly need 24hr care so tend to end up in a care home.
The bottom line is that it has got into such a state due to council cuts that sick people with dementia and other conditions are paying 40% more (Daily Mail figure) for their care. If any of you lot want to defend that - well you have to look in the mirror - but it is something we all should contribute towards rather than nick it off sick people because we can't afford to pay for it whilst we can afford tax breaks for the very wealthy.
This one is interesting, I suspect it is true at times as otherwise the mail wouldn't have written it however my experience (3 care homes) is they charge the same whether council paid or individual paid but I know thats only3 homes and there are reports to the contrary. Run me by the tax breaks for the rich over the past 7 years?
It is all a complete mess really and I'm glad the Tories have performed a U-turn - if anybody wants to claim it is anything else they are delusional in the extreme.
Of course it's a U Turn, they thought people would be happy that the cap goes up from £23k to £100k but didn't appreciate the backlash on the at home care. Although to be fair the few "oldun's" i've seen up in arms about it didn't understand it and just hear 'dementia tax'.
They have to pay if they don't have a health problem that is requires the care - that is where the NHS takes over. Because as many people have dementia - it is not classified as a health problem as the state doesn't want to pay for it. Unless you have dementia in Scotland of course.
There was a peice on ITV breakfast last week when all sides admitted self funding residents pay 40% more. It had the East Enders actor who was exposing the injustice on it. The only contentious bit was the spokesperson for the system said self funders were paying the true cost of their care and the councils were paying massively less than the true cost. Work that one out!
Theresa May is claiming we should trust her and it is not a U-turn right now on TV!
It is a dementia tax, and a stroke tax and a cancer tax..... It is unfair to ask vulnerable sick people to pay when the risk should be spread. Which one of us will need it, we don't know. It could be you Rob, it could be me - but any civilised democracy would spread the risk and make this fair.
Muttley, if it was down to me no one would pay care costs, the same as you don't pay in hospital.
I was simply disagreeing with you saying it was only about dementia. I think now you've changed to saying it's a cancer tax and a stroke tax etc etc. We agree it isn't a dementia tax. (Not that it's a tax. It's expecting people to pay for their care needs).
I genuinely think they were deluded enough to think that a vote for Brexit, the rise of UKIP and the gradual decline in confidence in Labour to represent their core meant they are suddenly going to just sweep in and pick up these votes as if it were taking candy from a baby. I genuinely believe they feel they don't have to explain themselves because their core support remains and anyone who voted labour or UKIP is probably too simple to have to offer substantive policy to. They've lived off Labour's demise in the final few years of Blair/Brown. Problem is, like our football club, the longer they stay in power, the quicker we realise they're not representative of anyone else but their own.
I'm not an economist, I don't understand figures, and although some of you will probably tell me the gap between the rich and the poor is closing based on GDP or whatever metric, sure doesn't feel like that
They're Meiresque in theory and execution.
I completely agree. Must admit, this whole GE feels very different to any I've experienced before, often find myself more gripped to social media because there's more voices and opinions than ever before, and more respectful debating too (this thread has been a great read at times to hear opinions debated so well).
I just hope those debating online are debating face to face too, my parents the other day said they're voting UKIP because Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser...yeah, they're The Sun readers. I've got my work cut convincing them that it's a smear campaign! So fingers crossed people are asking for opinions with those older that voted Brexit etc, and have a healthy debate about it all, and if there's people who believe the crap in the newspapers then I hope they can open their eyes too.
I can't remember the last time I felt hope like this with politics and change. #ToriesOut
Just because someone needs care doesn't mean it's paid for and on the flip side just because you have dementia doesn't mean it isn't paid for. My best mate (sits next to me in the North stand and has done for 25 years, pop and have this chat with him next season!) sadly his father died last month and his mum 2 years ago, both had dementia, both were in care homes for their dementia, both were fully funded under continuing care (so no means test applicable)........
It all depends how you score in the assessment.
Not saying any of it is fair, or right, but it's bl00dy complicated!
...I'm still yet to read a single reason to vote for Conservatives, anyone else thinking the same?
I genuinely think they were deluded enough to think that a vote for Brexit, the rise of UKIP and the gradual decline in confidence in Labour to represent their core meant they are suddenly going to just sweep in and pick up these votes as if it were taking candy from a baby. I genuinely believe they feel they don't have to explain themselves because their core support remains and anyone who voted labour or UKIP is probably too simple to have to offer substantive policy to. They've lived off Labour's demise in the final few years of Blair/Brown. Problem is, like our football club, the longer they stay in power, the quicker we realise they're not representative of anyone else but their own.
I'm not an economist, I don't understand figures, and although some of you will probably tell me the gap between the rich and the poor is closing based on GDP or whatever metric, sure doesn't feel like that
They're Meiresque in theory and execution.
Great analogy there Cabbies.
It's amazing mate. I mean I think you're a good example. If I've read correctly, you're a business owner and working in a small business I see my Director have to bust his gut, I'd imagine it's the same for you. Traditionally the tories should be able to potentially have you as a supporter, maybe even join their party as a member as you have announced today that you're joining labour. I'm not trying to say you being a business owner would be the only reason you vote Tory, but I think traditionally you and other business owners would be core support for them. Yet their greed and general assumption that they can do whatever they feel without an explanation could possibly lead to a bloody nose
I'm sure I'm over simplifying with the business owner example, but I think the general disregard for anyone other than the very wealthy is shocking
But it is a dementia tax - If you get dementia you are on your own. 1 in 6 of us will get dementia - as we get older that number is increasing. Dementia is not classified as an illness simply because the government doesn't want to pay for it.. Well that isn't entirely fair, but they have been too frightened to address it, because the solution is to spread the pain. spread the risk so less is paid. But people with dementia don't realise what is going on so they can't stick up for themselves. That is a dementia tax.
Now there are other groups of people who have to pay for their care costs. I'm not denying that and I know that because my mother needs a carer and she pays for it 100%. She has nothing wrong with her mind, but is in a wheelchair and cannot walk so needs help getting out of bed, and using the shower and toilet. But if you get dementia and you have to pay money that people without dementia don't have to, then you can class that as a dementia tax. Most of the people in residential care are there because of dementia
If you want to argue about whether it is strictly a dementia tax or not, you are sort of missing the point! The way I am looking at it - if you have to pay if you get dementia and not if you don't it is a dementia tax. That doesn't mean other people don't pay for their care too - it is all wrong!
Comments
Zero figures for anything and refuses to rule out rises in National Insurance and Income tax.
She also mentions Brexit at the end of every sentence.
Only one position of the two above is strong and stable.
Rob7Lee is correct as far as I know. This does not solely relate to dementia and if you've got more than £23K at the moment you have to pay for residential care or care at home, as far as I am aware.
There was a peice on ITV breakfast last week when all sides admitted self funding residents pay 40% more. It had the East Enders actor who was exposing the injustice on it. The only contentious bit was the spokesperson for the system said self funders were paying the true cost of their care and the councils were paying massively less than the true cost. Work that one out!
Theresa May is claiming we should trust her and it is not a U-turn right now on TV!
It is a dementia tax, and a stroke tax and a cancer tax..... It is unfair to ask vulnerable sick people to pay when the risk should be spread. Which one of us will need it, we don't know. It could be you Rob, it could be me - but any civilised democracy would spread the risk and make this fair.
Theresa May talking about shameful politics, while attributing the backlash to miscommunication and unclear policy briefings, is simply hypocritical.
I'm not an economist, I don't understand figures, and although some of you will probably tell me the gap between the rich and the poor is closing based on GDP or whatever metric, sure doesn't feel like that
They're Meiresque in theory and execution.
It's a tricky one this I think. Macron I reckon....
I was simply disagreeing with you saying it was only about dementia. I think now you've changed to saying it's a cancer tax and a stroke tax etc etc. We agree it isn't a dementia tax. (Not that it's a tax. It's expecting people to pay for their care needs).
I just hope those debating online are debating face to face too, my parents the other day said they're voting UKIP because Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser...yeah, they're The Sun readers. I've got my work cut convincing them that it's a smear campaign! So fingers crossed people are asking for opinions with those older that voted Brexit etc, and have a healthy debate about it all, and if there's people who believe the crap in the newspapers then I hope they can open their eyes too.
I can't remember the last time I felt hope like this with politics and change. #ToriesOut
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/
Also to be read in conjunction with this;
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/nhs-continuing-care.aspx
Just because someone needs care doesn't mean it's paid for and on the flip side just because you have dementia doesn't mean it isn't paid for. My best mate (sits next to me in the North stand and has done for 25 years, pop and have this chat with him next season!) sadly his father died last month and his mum 2 years ago, both had dementia, both were in care homes for their dementia, both were fully funded under continuing care (so no means test applicable)........
It all depends how you score in the assessment.
Not saying any of it is fair, or right, but it's bl00dy complicated!
Wiped out her home and therefore her savings down to the 23k.
I'm sure I'm over simplifying with the business owner example, but I think the general disregard for anyone other than the very wealthy is shocking
Now there are other groups of people who have to pay for their care costs. I'm not denying that and I know that because my mother needs a carer and she pays for it 100%. She has nothing wrong with her mind, but is in a wheelchair and cannot walk so needs help getting out of bed, and using the shower and toilet. But if you get dementia and you have to pay money that people without dementia don't have to, then you can class that as a dementia tax. Most of the people in residential care are there because of dementia
If you want to argue about whether it is strictly a dementia tax or not, you are sort of missing the point! The way I am looking at it - if you have to pay if you get dementia and not if you don't it is a dementia tax. That doesn't mean other people don't pay for their care too - it is all wrong!