Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
I'm certain they'd refuse to show even if invited?
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Most of the debates here seem to start off about equal left/right but the posters on the right tend not to carry on and stop posting, seeming less interested in debating or details. This is probably what will win it for the Tories - a lot of people who support them but do not really want to go into the reasons why.
Just following May's example, not debating or providing details.
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Actually iirc when admin have done their own "exit polls" didn't it closely follow the national trends? I may have got this wrong tbf but that's my memory.
Whether this thread is 85-90% Labour is your own interpretation which conveniently fits your theory. Do you know which way I'm voting for example.....well done if you do btw because I don't yet.
There's been no abuse, no name calling, not much aggression at all to each others points of view in fact. There's no reason Tory or indeed UKIP voters shouldn't feel able to put their point across on this thread. With the exception I mentioned perjaps that pretty much all the empirical evidence is stacked against them or laid bare before even the most biased of those of us.
Unless you know otherwise and our NHS, our schools, our police, our army, our prisons, our local authorities, our environment, our wages, our debts, our housing, our health, etc are in fact in a better place now than 7 years ago and we just can't see it?
It's just an opinion - I don't need something to conveniently fit a theory.
My opinion is that the site is very pro Labour / left.
I don't have any idea how the election will go - my gut feel is that Mays leadership credentials will play against her and it will be closer than was expected as Corbyns couldn't get any worse.
But I don't think it is that out of this world to suggest this site is more anti Tory than the country at large. Of course it is - could be plenty of very legitimate reasons but I think it is a fair assessment.
Once again you've ducked an invitation to redress the anti-Tory imbalance you claim exists by putting forward the positives in support of their policies and record. Surely the debate you presumably would like to see would involve someone putting forward the pros to counter the unfair bias you seem to see?
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
I'm certain they'd refuse to show even if invited?
The debates don't really matter, it's mostly confirmation bias that your party did the 'best'.
The only thing that will be remembered from this debate now though is that May didn't turn up. Whether it actually makes a massive difference is up for debate but I'm sure there will be people that will turn to Labour because she 'bottled it'.
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
I'm certain they'd refuse to show even if invited?
Would they ? Why ?
I think there's some thing. Not sure. I could be wrong
I have made a decision I am happy to pay more tax for better services, like the NHS and police, and may be Royal Navy. I am happy to leave the EU and join the EEA.
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
I'm certain they'd refuse to show even if invited?
Would they ? Why ?
I think based on sinn fein not sitting in Westminster but it could be a whoosh moment
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Actually iirc when admin have done their own "exit polls" didn't it closely follow the national trends? I may have got this wrong tbf but that's my memory.
Whether this thread is 85-90% Labour is your own interpretation which conveniently fits your theory. Do you know which way I'm voting for example.....well done if you do btw because I don't yet.
There's been no abuse, no name calling, not much aggression at all to each others points of view in fact. There's no reason Tory or indeed UKIP voters shouldn't feel able to put their point across on this thread. With the exception I mentioned perhaps that pretty much all the empirical evidence is stacked against them or laid bare before even the most biased of those of us.
Unless you know otherwise and our NHS, our schools, our police, our army, our prisons, our local authorities, our environment, our wages, our debts, our housing, our health, etc are in fact in a better place now than 7 years ago and we just can't see it?
I'm pretty sure there are more labour supporters posting in this thread than conservative, but i'm not about to go and count and interpret all 150 posters.
Damo might question the aggression/name calling
Of course, everything is worse and it's all down to the nasty tories robbing from the poor and giving to the rich
NHS - is under strain needs more funding but also nothing's ever been solved by simply throwing money at it, you need a plan.
Schools - despite the rhetoric my personal experience is they aren't doing too bad. The biggest issue is the sheer number of children now in certain areas, take Lewisham almost all primary schools have had to add a further in-take for the past 8 years. They have known this for over 12 years as I was planning with Lewisham back in 2005 on numbers. We need to build more schools, simples.
Police, outside of the reduced numbers I have no personal experience think there's a couple of people on here with more relevant and recent experience than me.
Army, prison, LA (thats very wide but i'm quite happy with Greenwich in the main). Otherwise don't know enough to personally comment.
Environment, what the issue here?
Wages, if you mean net pay I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find many that are worse off over the last 7 years, well other than those who earn £60k or more.
Debts, what should we do, borrow a few billion more each month?
Housing, see NHS and Schools, we need to build more and of the right sort, sticking up flats everywhere isn't the answer especially without the infrastructure.
Health - thought as a country overall this was better than ever, less smokers, people living longer etc.
The debates don't really matter, it's mostly confirmation bias that your party did the 'best'.
The only thing that will be remembered from this debate now though is that May didn't turn up. Whether it actually makes a massive difference is up for debate but I'm sure there will be people that will turn to Labour because she 'bottled it'.
I agree.
Unless she'd made a huge gaffe like spilt water all down her or fell over the podium, I don't think there would've been any harm done in turning up, certainly not more than has been done by her not appearing.
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Actually iirc when admin have done their own "exit polls" didn't it closely follow the national trends? I may have got this wrong tbf but that's my memory.
Whether this thread is 85-90% Labour is your own interpretation which conveniently fits your theory. Do you know which way I'm voting for example.....well done if you do btw because I don't yet.
There's been no abuse, no name calling, not much aggression at all to each others points of view in fact. There's no reason Tory or indeed UKIP voters shouldn't feel able to put their point across on this thread. With the exception I mentioned perjaps that pretty much all the empirical evidence is stacked against them or laid bare before even the most biased of those of us.
Unless you know otherwise and our NHS, our schools, our police, our army, our prisons, our local authorities, our environment, our wages, our debts, our housing, our health, etc are in fact in a better place now than 7 years ago and we just can't see it?
It's just an opinion - I don't need something to conveniently fit a theory.
My opinion is that the site is very pro Labour / left.
I don't have any idea how the election will go - my gut feel is that Mays leadership credentials will play against her and it will be closer than was expected as Corbyns couldn't get any worse.
But I don't think it is that out of this world to suggest this site is more anti Tory than the country at large. Of course it is - could be plenty of very legitimate reasons but I think it is a fair assessment.
Once again you've ducked an invitation to redress the anti-Tory imbalance you claim exists by putting forward the positives in support of their policies and record. Surely the debate you presumably would like to see would involve someone putting forward the pros to counter the unfair bias you seem to see?
I didn't say it was unfair bias. I said it was a disproportionate reflection of the apparent voting intentions of the U.K. No political view is unfair - and if the majority of views on this site are left wing.... Well that's fair enough.
Do you really want me to go into why I vote Tory as that is a completely unrelated point to me simply pointing out that this site has a particular balance? Me stating that I don't believe stifling wealth and business prosperity from the top is a long term solution to boosting wealth at the bottom of the earnings pyramid isn't going to all of a sudden lead to a swing of epic proportions on C Life. Or my views on handing over the Brexit reigns to Corbyn and co (I was staunch remain and devastated when we left but leaving Jezza in charge of that process is like leaving Peter Garland in charge of fitness training in pre season this summer). Never mind the unemployment figures steadily falling - getting more people working and paying in to the economy is a far better way to get more into the tax pot that will therefore mean more to go towards supporting those that can't work. More apprenticeships mean people learning new skills who in future could start their own companies and create more jobs.
None of that will mean this site will be anything other than very left for the next week or so - and that's totally fine. Just not representative of the country at large.
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
And most probably very little relation to voting intentions amongst CL posters/members either. Many people don't feel comfortable disclosing their political views or feeling the need to defend them, so don't participate in the "debate". I seem to recall an anonymous voting intentions thread on CL on a previous occasion. Same again this time might show a different demographic.
Edit - to acknowledge similar points already made. I hadn't read that far!
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Actually iirc when admin have done their own "exit polls" didn't it closely follow the national trends? I may have got this wrong tbf but that's my memory.
Whether this thread is 85-90% Labour is your own interpretation which conveniently fits your theory. Do you know which way I'm voting for example.....well done if you do btw because I don't yet.
There's been no abuse, no name calling, not much aggression at all to each others points of view in fact. There's no reason Tory or indeed UKIP voters shouldn't feel able to put their point across on this thread. With the exception I mentioned perhaps that pretty much all the empirical evidence is stacked against them or laid bare before even the most biased of those of us.
Unless you know otherwise and our NHS, our schools, our police, our army, our prisons, our local authorities, our environment, our wages, our debts, our housing, our health, etc are in fact in a better place now than 7 years ago and we just can't see it?
I'm pretty sure there are more labour supporters posting in this thread than conservative, but i'm not about to go and count and interpret all 150 posters.
Damo might question the aggression/name calling
Of course, everything is worse and it's all down to the nasty tories robbing from the poor and giving to the rich
NHS - is under strain needs more funding but also nothing's ever been solved by simply throwing money at it, you need a plan.
Schools - despite the rhetoric my personal experience is they aren't doing too bad. The biggest issue is the sheer number of children now in certain areas, take Lewisham almost all primary schools have had to add a further in-take for the past 8 years. They have known this for over 12 years as I was planning with Lewisham back in 2005 on numbers. We need to build more schools, simples.
If this is paid for out of taxation is it robbing from the rich?
Police, outside of the reduced numbers I have no personal experience think there's a couple of people on here with more relevant and recent experience than me.
Army, prison, LA (thats very wide but i'm quite happy with Greenwich in the main). Otherwise don't know enough to personally comment.
Environment, what the issue here?
Pollution.
Wages, if you mean net pay I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find many that are worse off over the last 7 years, well other than those who earn £60k or more.
When you take average inflation into account I think you'll find that the pay freeze or token rises for public sector workers amounts to a pay cut of something in the order of 10%, maybe more.
Debts, what should we do, borrow a few billion more each month?
Housing, see NHS and Schools, we need to build more and of the right sort, sticking up flats everywhere isn't the answer especially without the infrastructure.
Paid for out of taxation.
Health - thought as a country overall this was better than ever, less smokers, people living longer etc.
People living longer means that health priorities have changed, not got any less
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Actually iirc when admin have done their own "exit polls" didn't it closely follow the national trends? I may have got this wrong tbf but that's my memory.
Whether this thread is 85-90% Labour is your own interpretation which conveniently fits your theory. Do you know which way I'm voting for example.....well done if you do btw because I don't yet.
There's been no abuse, no name calling, not much aggression at all to each others points of view in fact. There's no reason Tory or indeed UKIP voters shouldn't feel able to put their point across on this thread. With the exception I mentioned perhaps that pretty much all the empirical evidence is stacked against them or laid bare before even the most biased of those of us.
Unless you know otherwise and our NHS, our schools, our police, our army, our prisons, our local authorities, our environment, our wages, our debts, our housing, our health, etc are in fact in a better place now than 7 years ago and we just can't see it?
I'm pretty sure there are more labour supporters posting in this thread than conservative, but i'm not about to go and count and interpret all 150 posters.
Damo might question the aggression/name calling
Of course, everything is worse and it's all down to the nasty tories robbing from the poor and giving to the rich
NHS - is under strain needs more funding but also nothing's ever been solved by simply throwing money at it, you need a plan.
Schools - despite the rhetoric my personal experience is they aren't doing too bad. The biggest issue is the sheer number of children now in certain areas, take Lewisham almost all primary schools have had to add a further in-take for the past 8 years. They have known this for over 12 years as I was planning with Lewisham back in 2005 on numbers. We need to build more schools, simples.
If this is paid for out of taxation is it robbing from the rich?
Police, outside of the reduced numbers I have no personal experience think there's a couple of people on here with more relevant and recent experience than me.
Army, prison, LA (thats very wide but i'm quite happy with Greenwich in the main). Otherwise don't know enough to personally comment.
Environment, what the issue here?
Pollution.
Wages, if you mean net pay I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find many that are worse off over the last 7 years, well other than those who earn £60k or more.
When you take average inflation into account I think you'll find that the pay freeze or token rises for public sector workers amounts to a pay cut of something in the order of 10%, maybe more.
Debts, what should we do, borrow a few billion more each month?
Housing, see NHS and Schools, we need to build more and of the right sort, sticking up flats everywhere isn't the answer especially without the infrastructure.
Paid for out of taxation.
Health - thought as a country overall this was better than ever, less smokers, people living longer etc.
People living longer means that health priorities have changed, not got any less
Yes education is paid for out of taxes (or at least should be) so no, not robbing from the rich, not sure why you said that? Education at the moment is very complex, we need more schools (which all parties from memory have said they will and agree with) due to population increase, however thats not by any means the only issue. Try teaching infants where more than half your class doesn't speak or speaks very little english.
Pollution is an interesting one, maybe it's all those diesel cars that Labour told us to buy and gave us all a discount on our Company Car Tax because they were so much better for the environment
I broadly disagree on the income that it isn't as bad as you believe as you need to take into account net pay position. That said on net pay I am about 10% worse off although I don't work in the private sector.
Since when has house building simply been paid for out of taxation? Council housing yes but not all housing.
Health, was a little tongue in cheek in that health provision has improved over the years as can be seen by life expectancy, HIV etc.
Some of those headlines are incredibly desperate. But blimey, I had no idea Rudd's dad had died on Monday. Gotta give her some credit for showing up in the circumstances. Puts her boss to shame.
I joined CL in 2009 (well the Clique invited me to join, I had put them off for years) and read most of the 2010 election thread with interest but barely commented and found the bias to the right At that election I voted Lib Dem. I think one of the staunchest Tories then was @sadiejane1981 who has now moved over to Labour. You could sense that people were moving from all areas slightly to the right.
In 2015 I voted LD again as the best chance to beat the Cons but would have also voted Lab to beat the Cons. The site was still slightly biased to the right and @Fiiish was a staunch Tory who has now become an 'anybody but Tory'.
In 2017 it seems that we have had a massive switch with some Tories now saying they won't vote, others changing allegiance and what seems to be a broad anti-Tory sentiment coalescing into a vote for Labour. Former strident Tories are now saying that their manifesto is weak and that May has backfired
So yes it has become more left wing but you can trace a whole group of peoples journey from the right to the left even if it is just a short journey. I am obviously biased but I think the quality of debate and reason from non-Tories has been compelling and that reflects the journeys most of us have made. My own journey has seen me start off being quite sure I wouldn't vote Labour to being quite likely to.
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Yep. Caroline Lucas did herself proud. Fallon not bad and Corbyn also did well. Actually felt a bit sorry for the smarmy Rudd as she was on a hiding to nothing. I bet she was so glad to get to the end of the debate. Don't doubt that the tories will win because as Seth says they will pick up most of the unfolding UKIP votes but no cakewalk as Corbyn has been more competent than expected. Methinks Meire will hear a "vinegar pissers" version of 'Liar, Liar' if she is still around in August. Nice to hear a bit of ska, doncha think?
Why is Lucas even given a platform? The Greens are unlikely to retain their solitary seat.
(obviously same applies to Nuttall as well as Wood)
Don't the Greens have more MPs than UKIP, currently?
Same I believe. 1 each. Or it was after the 15 election
Do any of the Northern Irish parties have more than that ? If so it seems a bit off that they are excluded.
I'm certain they'd refuse to show even if invited?
Would they ? Why ?
I think based on sinn fein not sitting in Westminster but it could be a whoosh moment
Sinn Fein put up candidates, and win constituencies (they are expected, for example, to regain Fermanagh - South Tyrone after losing it in 2015). They do all the work of constituency MPs, short of sitting in the House.
I would have expected that any of the parties would have been delighted to have been invited to a debate.
For the viewer, however, it was probably a lucky escape.
As for the Greens and UKIP not gaining more seats, unless the UK was to adopt a list system of PR, I'm not sure that they would do much better. Unlike the SNP (though they have a cunning reason behind it) neither party can really generate enough votes in the right locations to win seats, they have a decent support, but it is too widely spread out. The same would still be likely in Single Transferable Vote PR constituencies, because they would have to be much larger to prevent Parliament from being unworkable. Unless there is a significant showing across the new constituency, they could find themselves behind the three more established parties, and even independents (who have a tendency to sneak through as the count progresses - at least in Ireland).
To maximise the benefits of PR both UKIP and the Greens would need effective party machines; you could as easily see the SNP gain seats, if they chose to contest them in England (if the North East is feeling unloved by Westminster, what better protest vote could there be?).
I think this may be getting to the point where it could be doing more harm than good for the Tory campaign.
I think anyone who watched it, even those who are not Labour supporters, would have thought that he came across, at the very least, okay and certainly didn't make a tit of himself.
If you watched it and then opened up your paper to see a headline like "Corbyn walloped by all six opponents" then you'd surely start thinking to yourself - well that's not what I saw or heard.
And when it keeps happening over and over again where the man you see on the news does not match with the man being portrayed in the press - I mean even some people who were mocking him on here a few weeks ago have started to begrudgingly admit he's run a better than expected campaign - then there is danger that it actually plays into the idea, that I think people are already starting to come around to having seen things like the lack of costings and half baked ideas in the Tory manifestos, namely that the Tory campaign is treating the electorate as idiots who will swallow any old bullshit and that will turn some voters away from you.
Maybe enough people will vote purely on what they have read in their preferred paper and haven't watched any debates or interviews for it not to matter but I think its another example of them being a bit out of touch with how people actually think.
Of the many things I left behind when I moved to Canada, the British press is possibly the thing I miss least of all.
YouGov published their constituency estimates online to view, one by one.
They have Amber Rudd's Hastings & Rye seat leaning to Labour...
The same estimates also have Canterbury as a "lean Conservative" seat, whereas it's been fairly safe Tory for quite a while... I'd be pleasantly surprised if places like Canterbury are as close as these estimates project.
Comments
The only thing that will be remembered from this debate now though is that May didn't turn up. Whether it actually makes a massive difference is up for debate but I'm sure there will be people that will turn to Labour because she 'bottled it'.
Damo might question the aggression/name calling
Of course, everything is worse and it's all down to the nasty tories robbing from the poor and giving to the rich
NHS - is under strain needs more funding but also nothing's ever been solved by simply throwing money at it, you need a plan.
Schools - despite the rhetoric my personal experience is they aren't doing too bad. The biggest issue is the sheer number of children now in certain areas, take Lewisham almost all primary schools have had to add a further in-take for the past 8 years. They have known this for over 12 years as I was planning with Lewisham back in 2005 on numbers. We need to build more schools, simples.
Police, outside of the reduced numbers I have no personal experience
Army, prison, LA (thats very wide but i'm quite happy with Greenwich in the main). Otherwise don't know enough to personally comment.
Environment, what the issue here?
Wages, if you mean net pay I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find many that are worse off over the last 7 years, well other than those who earn £60k or more.
Debts, what should we do, borrow a few billion more each month?
Housing, see NHS and Schools, we need to build more and of the right sort, sticking up flats everywhere isn't the answer especially without the infrastructure.
Health - thought as a country overall this was better than ever, less smokers, people living longer etc.
Unless she'd made a huge gaffe like spilt water all down her or fell over the podium, I don't think there would've been any harm done in turning up, certainly not more than has been done by her not appearing.
She's like a Doctor Who villain.
I feel like her head is about to drop off to reveal the evil alien inside.
Do you really want me to go into why I vote Tory as that is a completely unrelated point to me simply pointing out that this site has a particular balance? Me stating that I don't believe stifling wealth and business prosperity from the top is a long term solution to boosting wealth at the bottom of the earnings pyramid isn't going to all of a sudden lead to a swing of epic proportions on C Life. Or my views on handing over the Brexit reigns to Corbyn and co (I was staunch remain and devastated when we left but leaving Jezza in charge of that process is like leaving Peter Garland in charge of fitness training in pre season this summer). Never mind the unemployment figures steadily falling - getting more people working and paying in to the economy is a far better way to get more into the tax pot that will therefore mean more to go towards supporting those that can't work. More apprenticeships mean people learning new skills who in future could start their own companies and create more jobs.
None of that will mean this site will be anything other than very left for the next week or so - and that's totally fine. Just not representative of the country at large.
Edit - to acknowledge similar points already made. I hadn't read that far!
Pollution is an interesting one, maybe it's all those diesel cars that Labour told us to buy and gave us all a discount on our Company Car Tax because they were so much better for the environment
I broadly disagree on the income that it isn't as bad as you believe as you need to take into account net pay position. That said on net pay I am about 10% worse off although I don't work in the private sector.
Since when has house building simply been paid for out of taxation? Council housing yes but not all housing.
Health, was a little tongue in cheek in that health provision has improved over the years as can be seen by life expectancy, HIV etc.
Free and fair press.
I joined CL in 2009 (well the Clique invited me to join, I had put them off for years) and read most of the 2010 election thread with interest but barely commented and found the bias to the right At that election I voted Lib Dem. I think one of the staunchest Tories then was @sadiejane1981 who has now moved over to Labour. You could sense that people were moving from all areas slightly to the right.
In 2015 I voted LD again as the best chance to beat the Cons but would have also voted Lab to beat the Cons. The site was still slightly biased to the right and @Fiiish was a staunch Tory who has now become an 'anybody but Tory'.
In 2017 it seems that we have had a massive switch with some Tories now saying they won't vote, others changing allegiance and what seems to be a broad anti-Tory sentiment coalescing into a vote for Labour. Former strident Tories are now saying that their manifesto is weak and that May has backfired
So yes it has become more left wing but you can trace a whole group of peoples journey from the right to the left even if it is just a short journey. I am obviously biased but I think the quality of debate and reason from non-Tories has been compelling and that reflects the journeys most of us have made. My own journey has seen me start off being quite sure I wouldn't vote Labour to being quite likely to.
I would have expected that any of the parties would have been delighted to have been invited to a debate.
For the viewer, however, it was probably a lucky escape.
As for the Greens and UKIP not gaining more seats, unless the UK was to adopt a list system of PR, I'm not sure that they would do much better. Unlike the SNP (though they have a cunning reason behind it) neither party can really generate enough votes in the right locations to win seats, they have a decent support, but it is too widely spread out. The same would still be likely in Single Transferable Vote PR constituencies, because they would have to be much larger to prevent Parliament from being unworkable. Unless there is a significant showing across the new constituency, they could find themselves behind the three more established parties, and even independents (who have a tendency to sneak through as the count progresses - at least in Ireland).
To maximise the benefits of PR both UKIP and the Greens would need effective party machines; you could as easily see the SNP gain seats, if they chose to contest them in England (if the North East is feeling unloved by Westminster, what better protest vote could there be?).
They have Amber Rudd's Hastings & Rye seat leaning to Labour...
I think anyone who watched it, even those who are not Labour supporters, would have thought that he came across, at the very least, okay and certainly didn't make a tit of himself.
If you watched it and then opened up your paper to see a headline like "Corbyn walloped by all six opponents" then you'd surely start thinking to yourself - well that's not what I saw or heard.
And when it keeps happening over and over again where the man you see on the news does not match with the man being portrayed in the press - I mean even some people who were mocking him on here a few weeks ago have started to begrudgingly admit he's run a better than expected campaign - then there is danger that it actually plays into the idea, that I think people are already starting to come around to having seen things like the lack of costings and half baked ideas in the Tory manifestos, namely that the Tory campaign is treating the electorate as idiots who will swallow any old bullshit and that will turn some voters away from you.
Maybe enough people will vote purely on what they have read in their preferred paper and haven't watched any debates or interviews for it not to matter but I think its another example of them being a bit out of touch with how people actually think.
Of the many things I left behind when I moved to Canada, the British press is possibly the thing I miss least of all.