Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
Most of the debates here seem to start off about equal left/right but the posters on the right tend not to carry on and stop posting, seeming less interested in debating or details. This is probably what will win it for the Tories - a lot of people who support them but do not really want to go into the reasons why.
I don't really wish to debate when people say "I wonder if Cameron would contemplate introducing his member to David Davis' mush" or earlier comments, which I think it was something about Tories wanting to kill children or eat babies. I can't remember exactly, but it was just ridiculous.
Was thinking back to the last debate last time around. This site had a real mix of views and the thread invoked genuine debate. Now it is massively one sided with no debate - just reams of posts with anti Tory sentiment.
I am on an F1 forum too, and that's gone the other way. Once again - anti Labour posts one after the other which also kills any debate.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU referendum.
Time will tell - but it is a lot more one sided this time and was from the start.
Perhaps your perceived lack of supportive posts for the party of your choice is less to do with the changing demographics of this site and more to with the total paucity of any successful policies implemented by them?
Very difficult to post supportive responses without the postive policy outcomes to back up your point of view I'd suggest. But I remain genuinely interested in all the 'wins' the Tories have delivered on our behalf?
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
And most probably very little relation to voting intentions amongst CL posters/members either. Many people don't feel comfortable disclosing their political views or feeling the need to defend them, so don't participate in the "debate". I seem to recall an anonymous voting intentions thread on CL on a previous occasion. Same again this time might show a different demographic.
Edit - to acknowledge similar points already made. I hadn't read that far!
@Davo55 makes a very good point. Your political persuasions can be a very private matter. The CL poll will come soon no doubt. I reckon @cafcnick1992 has it right about millions of silent Tories, but I worry about his statement over that Thatcher video
Anyway I've been out on a 2nd date tonight so just checking in and glad to see the thread is largely civil.
For once, I'm siding with the righties on something. I don't believe that was a balanced audience, whatever was stated beforehand. If it was, then they recruited some very quiet tory supporters and some very noisy opposition.
Also, credit to Amber Rudd for being prepared to go on just two days after her dad died. I hadn't realised at the time, I thought she looked really teary and put it down to nerves. It really does put Theresa Duchatelet's absence into context though. What sort of leader would remain absent and put a junior colleague in the firing line under such circumstances? A strong and stable one? That is the biggest joke of all. May's leadership is absolutely pathetic.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU blockquote>
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
If certain papers supported Labour at the next election, it would be a reason for me not to vote for them. Why should I do what an elite press baron wants me to do, and why does he want me to do it?
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU blockquote>
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
Well let's all decide who to vote for based on historical governments. If some of you are under 90, try googling "general strike" or "great depression" and seeing where the conservative policies of the 1920s got got us.
Alternatively, let's be rather more sensible have a look at the Cameron administration from 2010 to 2016. See how they failed to deal with the budget defecit despite a horrible austerity programme that made ordinary people pay the price for the excesses of their banking buddies. See how they undermined the NHS. See how they plunged us into Brexit, not because they wanted to, but because they rather pursue their party interests to quieten the UKIPers than pursue sensible policies to get this country back on track.
. This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
You're calling Ted Heath a socialist, Golfie? Seeing as he was the Prime Minister that instituted the three day week.
Following this closely from Spain. I make Damo right. Political threads on CL tend to the right for me, and this one is unusual in that the right voters seem to have drifted left or decided to avoid posting. I doubt very much it represents the general view in the UK, but let"s be frank, CL doesn't always reflect the views of all Charlton fans either. As for the debate, I am starting to wonder if Teresa May has decided to 'throw' this election as she can see, as a remainer, the fallout that will hit the government who negotiate this daft idea. And I say remainer, though revolving door would describe her pofition better
After the EU Refferendum I honestly can't look at these polls (or Poles for that matter!) for fear of falling into the trap of thinking that there might be a chance to stop the Conservatives.
Last night got me thinking that, for the next few years which I think all agree will be the most testing our country has faced for a long time, a coalition government might not be a bad thing.
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU blockquote>
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
But if they googled '3 day week' they might discover it happened under Heath's Tory government!
. This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
You're calling Ted Heath a socialist, Golfie? Seeing as he was the Prime Minister that instituted the three day week.
not forgetting that callaghan who was in power for the winter of discontent is still disliked by many in labour for abandoning socialism
On the subject of health I think we are in danger of becoming complacent about mortality rates and the trend, since 2011 which cannot be coincidence, is upwards not down as you suggest...
As for the rest of your defence of the Tories record, thank you for at least addressing it. However it sounds like you broadly agree that the NHS, housing, schools are worse now than 7 years ago albeit perhaps not for the reasons I would.
On the issues you claim ignorance of the problems or lack of personal experience therefore you won't express an opinion... really? You need to work in the prison service or local authority to hold an opinion on the effects of austerity on those public services? Did you not see the coverage of the recent industrial action in our prisons? Do you not read the reports of the cuts in social care provision?
The rest of your post is similarly evasive, even flippant tbh. "What's the issue with the environment?" for example. Seth's already mentioned air pollution which is linked to 1000's deaths per year but perhaps go and ask someone whose house is now at greater risk of flooding due to cuts to the Environment Agency?
Focusing on net wages, again is misleading when we have report after report detailing the long term wage stagnation under the Tories and coalition...
I was also refering to household debt rather than our public debt which as we know the Tories have only increased.
So all in all you've either agreed things are worse than they were, claimed lack of knowledge or personal experience as a reason not to acknowledge the poor record of the government, ignored the issue completely or given a misleading response like the one around wages.
I fail to see how we don't put the environment at the very top of our list in terms of importance. Are we happy that our kids, and even ourselves are breathing in poluted air, are we happy at the risk our planet is under? I don't think anybody can be happy about that.
I don't know how anyone can tell who will make the best PM by the way they bellow at each other in these live debates. The current party in government, whoever they might be, will always come out of it looking bad. (Leanne Wood for example, just seems to say things for affect and a little clap from the audience)
The only exception imo was the Brexit debates as everyone was starting from a cross party level playing field.
As someone who's not great with maths can someone explain to me whether labours costing will work?
Scrapping tuition fees Free childcare Free school dinners More police Etc
Will this all come from high earners tax?
More likely from corporation tax. With us having the lowest in the G7 I assume many companies have flocked to us? Who had the highest in the G7, USA home to general motors, Microsoft, Facebook, Google etc.
This forum is a fair representative of the public IMO as the better than YouGov poll will show. Conservative voters just don't seem to want to engage in this thread, perhaps put off by comments made by other Tory voters earlier on?
As someone who's not great with maths can someone explain to me whether labours costing will work?
Scrapping tuition fees Free childcare Free school dinners More police Etc
Will this all come from high earners tax?
More likely from corporation tax. With us having the lowest in the G7 I assume many companies have flocked to us? Who had the highest in the G7, USA home to general motors, Microsoft, Facebook, Google etc.
This forum is a fair representative of the public IMO as the better than YouGov poll will show. Conservative voters just don't seem to want to engage in this thread, perhaps put off by comments made by other Tory voters earlier on?
The latest I have heard is that Labour want to clear student debts currently incurred by graduates but I need to check on the details.... Is this the case?
Nobody cleared mine - why do people get a free pass to get their debts cleared rather than do what everyone else has to do which is go to work? It was my choice to go to uni and I don't expect the taxpayer to cover my bill at the end of it
The latest I have heard is that Labour want to clear student debts currently incurred by graduates but I need to check on the details.... Is this the case?
Nobody cleared mine - why do people get a free pass to get their debts cleared rather than do what everyone else has to do which is go to work? It was my choice to go to uni and I don't expect the taxpayer to cover my bill at the end of it
If it is the case, and I think I heard the same, there's over 2 million votes going begging in out universities
The latest I have heard is that Labour want to clear student debts currently incurred by graduates but I need to check on the details.... Is this the case?
Nobody cleared mine - why do people get a free pass to get their debts cleared rather than do what everyone else has to do which is go to work? It was my choice to go to uni and I don't expect the taxpayer to cover my bill at the end of it
Corbyn said he would like to clear the debt of those that paid £9k a year. To answer your question why is it fair that the likes of you and I paid significantly less than £9k a year and older generations nothing?
The latest I have heard is that Labour want to clear student debts currently incurred by graduates but I need to check on the details.... Is this the case?
Nobody cleared mine - why do people get a free pass to get their debts cleared rather than do what everyone else has to do which is go to work? It was my choice to go to uni and I don't expect the taxpayer to cover my bill at the end of it
Corbyn said he would like to clear the debt of those that paid £9k a year. To answer your question why is it fair that the likes of you and I paid significantly less than £9k a year and older generations nothing?
I must have missed that...... was this in the fully costed manifesto?
What about the older generations who didn't get a lot of the benefits that are around now, do we need to refund the 60+ year olds for what they didn't get but would now?
Those Tory paper headlines are a real joke! In fact they are totally misleading. It was Amber Rudd who got mauled - and I felt a bit sorry for her because Theresa may should have been strutting her stuff.
Comments
I can't remember exactly, but it was just ridiculous.
There's just no point for me.
Anyway I've been out on a 2nd date tonight so just checking in and glad to see the thread is largely civil.
On that note, down with the Tory scum
Also, credit to Amber Rudd for being prepared to go on just two days after her dad died. I hadn't realised at the time, I thought she looked really teary and put it down to nerves. It really does put Theresa Duchatelet's absence into context though. What sort of leader would remain absent and put a junior colleague in the firing line under such circumstances? A strong and stable one? That is the biggest joke of all. May's leadership is absolutely pathetic.
Well she's dropped an absolute massive one not turning up tonight!
Has something changed across the demographic of Charlton Life? Do we have a younger user base than two years ago? Do we have our own 'bubble' a la London and the EU blockquote>
This site / thread must be 85-90pc Labour which has no relation whatsoever to the voting intentions across the country.
This. Every day I see another 200 new threads & despair when I read some of them. I'm thinking of voting labour just so I can see the mess we will be in by 2022.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
Well let's all decide who to vote for based on historical governments. If some of you are under 90, try googling "general strike" or "great depression" and seeing where the conservative policies of the 1920s got got us.
Alternatively, let's be rather more sensible have a look at the Cameron administration from 2010 to 2016. See how they failed to deal with the budget defecit despite a horrible austerity programme that made ordinary people pay the price for the excesses of their banking buddies. See how they undermined the NHS. See how they plunged us into Brexit, not because they wanted to, but because they rather pursue their party interests to quieten the UKIPers than pursue sensible policies to get this country back on track.
As for the debate, I am starting to wonder if Teresa May has decided to 'throw' this election as she can see, as a remainer, the fallout that will hit the government who negotiate this daft idea. And I say remainer, though revolving door would describe her pofition better
Last night got me thinking that, for the next few years which I think all agree will be the most testing our country has faced for a long time, a coalition government might not be a bad thing.
If some of you are under 40 then perhaps trying googling "winter of discontent" or "3 day week" and se what the socialist policies of the 1970's got us.
But if they googled '3 day week' they might discover it happened under Heath's Tory government!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/19/who-should-i-vote-for-the-uk-election-manifestos-compared
On the subject of health I think we are in danger of becoming complacent about mortality rates and the trend, since 2011 which cannot be coincidence, is upwards not down as you suggest...
telegraph.co.uk/news/health/12158930/Biggest-annual-rise-in-deaths-for-almost-fifty-years-prompts-warnings-of-crisis-in-elderly-care.html
As for the rest of your defence of the Tories record, thank you for at least addressing it. However it sounds like you broadly agree that the NHS, housing, schools are worse now than 7 years ago albeit perhaps not for the reasons I would.
On the issues you claim ignorance of the problems or lack of personal experience therefore you won't express an opinion... really? You need to work in the prison service or local authority to hold an opinion on the effects of austerity on those public services? Did you not see the coverage of the recent industrial action in our prisons? Do you not read the reports of the cuts in social care provision?
The rest of your post is similarly evasive, even flippant tbh. "What's the issue with the environment?" for example. Seth's already mentioned air pollution which is linked to 1000's deaths per year but perhaps go and ask someone whose house is now at greater risk of flooding due to cuts to the Environment Agency?
Focusing on net wages, again is misleading when we have report after report detailing the long term wage stagnation under the Tories and coalition...
https://ft.com/content/d56b46f6-b237-11e6-9c37-5787335499a0
I was also refering to household debt rather than our public debt which as we know the Tories have only increased.
So all in all you've either agreed things are worse than they were, claimed lack of knowledge or personal experience as a reason not to acknowledge the poor record of the government, ignored the issue completely or given a misleading response like the one around wages.
Scrapping tuition fees
Free childcare
Free school dinners
More police
Etc
Will this all come from high earners tax?
The only exception imo was the Brexit debates as everyone was starting from a cross party level playing field.
Another bad US import
This forum is a fair representative of the public IMO as the better than YouGov poll will show. Conservative voters just don't seem to want to engage in this thread, perhaps put off by comments made by other Tory voters earlier on?
Nobody cleared mine - why do people get a free pass to get their debts cleared rather than do what everyone else has to do which is go to work? It was my choice to go to uni and I don't expect the taxpayer to cover my bill at the end of it
What about the older generations who didn't get a lot of the benefits that are around now, do we need to refund the 60+ year olds for what they didn't get but would now?
Things change,