Eamonn de Valera had the same scruples about sitting in the Free State Dail (because, until 1948 the Irish Free State was part of the Commonwealth), until he changed his mind in the 1930s.
He got around it by taking the oath in an off hand way (I always picture him speaking like a pissed-off teenager).
Sinn Fein could, if they wanted, do something similar, only for the purpose of a Brexit vote (leaving the Commons again after), and I think their supporters would accept that.
I almost suggested that they should use silly voices, but I'm not sure if anyone would notice.
If I've got my sums right, wouldn't Sinn Fein taking their seats for once blow the mathematics of a Tory / DUP coalition out of the water? It's an interesting dilemma - do Sinn Fein stick to their principles, or risk the Tories conceding stuff to the DUP that will disadvantage their core support?
Some ridiculously close margins; I can't help but envy those who live in an area where their vote has a direct impact. (I say, from an incredibly safe seat for the party that I would generally vote for anyway.)
Eamonn de Valera had the same scruples about sitting in the Free State Dail (because, until 1948 the Irish Free State was part of the Commonwealth), until he changed his mind in the 1930s.
He got around it by taking the oath in an off hand way (I always picture him speaking like a pissed-off teenager).
Sinn Fein could, if they wanted, do something similar, only for the purpose of a Brexit vote (leaving the Commons again after), and I think their supporters would accept that.
I almost suggested that they should use silly voices, but I'm not sure if anyone would notice.
If I've got my sums right, wouldn't Sinn Fein taking their seats for once blow the mathematics of a Tory / DUP coalition out of the water? It's an interesting dilemma - do Sinn Fein stick to their principles, or risk the Tories conceding stuff to the DUP that will disadvantage their core support?
Sinn Fein won't take their seats under any circumstances (well, maybe if we became a republic or summit, but you know what I mean).
But seriously what did the SNP do to lose so many votes...to the Tories of all people?!
Did they announce a tax on batter? Wanted to nationalise Irn Bru?
Realistically, their total domination last time was the shock result, and they took a lot of the labour vote, so the tories became de facto opposition. Also, lots of Scots don't want another independence referendum
Seems bizarre celebrating the 'victory' of a party that is still 60-odd seats short of government.
No idea where the country goes from this; politics, financial markets, the economy and investment thrive on stability and this could not have provided any more uncertainty at a time when the country and its place is to be reshaped over the next ten years.
The markets will hate it for a bit because we aren't used to it but the bigger, long term threat was always going to be Mays version of Brexit. At least now there might be other ways of dealing with it and better outcomes considered.
I've no idea in reality what is the difference between a perceived hard or soft Brexit, but what I do know is everything will be determined by negotiation and this country has (imo) significantly weakened its position it that negotiation.
That's a positive at least. Getting the kids interested and involved.
One of the keys to sorting out most of the countries current divides is by increasing participation - regardless of demographic and viewpoint - and fostering debate IMO.
Lets hope we can build on that; from whatever angle your political views are focused on, that's real genuine progress.
Seems bizarre celebrating the 'victory' of a party that is still 60-odd seats short of government.
No idea where the country goes from this; politics, financial markets, the economy and investment thrive on stability and this could not have provided any more uncertainty at a time when the country and its place is to be reshaped over the next ten years.
The markets will hate it for a bit because we aren't used to it but the bigger, long term threat was always going to be Mays version of Brexit. At least now there might be other ways of dealing with it and better outcomes considered.
I've no idea in reality what is the difference between a perceived hard or soft Brexit, but what I do know is everything will be determined by negotiation and this country has (imo) significantly weakened its position it that negotiation.
It is patently obvious that nobody has a clue about negotiating the terms of Brexit - all we need now is Bojo as PM.
That's a positive at least. Getting the kids interested and involved.
Last turnout figure I saw was like 68-69% which means they outperformed the mean which is very impressive.
Don't know how they split amongst the parties, and that will be interesting to see. But that, to me, is a potential indicator that this was more than a good campaign for Corbyn or a very bad one for May, but that people turned out to actually vote FOR something instead of against something. And if I were Labour, I'd rather have that on my side than the Prime Minister right now (because let's be honest the next few months are gonna be shit for whoever it is).
This is all just speculation. We'll know more in the coming days and weeks.
Seems bizarre celebrating the 'victory' of a party that is still 60-odd seats short of government.
No idea where the country goes from this; politics, financial markets, the economy and investment thrive on stability and this could not have provided any more uncertainty at a time when the country and its place is to be reshaped over the next ten years.
The markets will hate it for a bit because we aren't used to it but the bigger, long term threat was always going to be Mays version of Brexit. At least now there might be other ways of dealing with it and better outcomes considered.
I've no idea in reality what is the difference between a perceived hard or soft Brexit, but what I do know is everything will be determined by negotiation and this country has (imo) significantly weakened its position it that negotiation.
The Tories in general and May in particular only have themselves to blame
Eamonn de Valera had the same scruples about sitting in the Free State Dail (because, until 1948 the Irish Free State was part of the Commonwealth), until he changed his mind in the 1930s.
He got around it by taking the oath in an off hand way (I always picture him speaking like a pissed-off teenager).
Sinn Fein could, if they wanted, do something similar, only for the purpose of a Brexit vote (leaving the Commons again after), and I think their supporters would accept that.
I almost suggested that they should use silly voices, but I'm not sure if anyone would notice.
If I've got my sums right, wouldn't Sinn Fein taking their seats for once blow the mathematics of a Tory / DUP coalition out of the water? It's an interesting dilemma - do Sinn Fein stick to their principles, or risk the Tories conceding stuff to the DUP that will disadvantage their core support?
I don't think that Sinn Fein (in all honesty) want things to work out for everyone - the more instability in Westminster and the greater the chance that a hard Brexit can, narrowly, be forced through Parliament (and I think it still can, or, failing that, that the time for negotitations will come to an end without any agreement), the better it is for them from their own political perspective. They want to be able to turn to the people of Ireland (North and South) and point to "Perfidious Albion".
That's a positive at least. Getting the kids interested and involved.
One of the keys to sorting out most of the countries current divides is by increasing participation - regardless of demographic and viewpoint - and fostering debate IMO.
Lets hope we can build on that; from whatever angle your political views are focused on, that's real genuine progress.
Amen to that.
Another real positive for me is (the hope) that the press have failed in their bid to brainwash the electorate and that more people voted having considered the options more thoroughly. For that to flourish your point about fostering debate is key.
Seems bizarre celebrating the 'victory' of a party that is still 60-odd seats short of government.
No idea where the country goes from this; politics, financial markets, the economy and investment thrive on stability and this could not have provided any more uncertainty at a time when the country and its place is to be reshaped over the next ten years.
The markets will hate it for a bit because we aren't used to it but the bigger, long term threat was always going to be Mays version of Brexit. At least now there might be other ways of dealing with it and better outcomes considered.
I've no idea in reality what is the difference between a perceived hard or soft Brexit, but what I do know is everything will be determined by negotiation and this country has (imo) significantly weakened its position it that negotiation.
That's about the size of it, sadly I view it as the worst possible result, no one has won today only losers and in the main it's the public/country as a whole who will suffer.
Still looking on the bright side, wait for the markets to open, they'll be volatile but if you can hold your nose you can make a lot of money in the next few weeks.
Seems bizarre celebrating the 'victory' of a party that is still 60-odd seats short of government.
No idea where the country goes from this; politics, financial markets, the economy and investment thrive on stability and this could not have provided any more uncertainty at a time when the country and its place is to be reshaped over the next ten years.
The markets will hate it for a bit because we aren't used to it but the bigger, long term threat was always going to be Mays version of Brexit. At least now there might be other ways of dealing with it and better outcomes considered.
I've no idea in reality what is the difference between a perceived hard or soft Brexit, but what I do know is everything will be determined by negotiation and this country has (imo) significantly weakened its position it that negotiation.
Undoubtedly a lot of Tory Remainers didn't back the party. I know many that switched allegiance this time on the back of that Northerners/Welsh went back to their natural party May had a terrible campaign based on smear and fear rather than what she could offer The youngsters came out in force which was predictable after Brexit Corbyn showed a bit of charisma and spirit which the electorate finally saw
When I look at the map of the country it still looks pretty blue, but democracy has spoken, but the immediate future looks pretty bleak in my opinion.
That's a positive at least. Getting the kids interested and involved.
One of the keys to sorting out most of the countries current divides is by increasing participation - regardless of demographic and viewpoint - and fostering debate IMO.
Lets hope we can build on that; from whatever angle your political views are focused on, that's real genuine progress.
Amen to that.
Another real positive for me is (the hope) that the press have failed in their bid to brainwash the electorate and that more people voted having considered the options more thoroughly. For that to flourish your point about fostering debate is key.
It's a glimmer of hope certainly; I've often found it depressing that through the internet we live in a time where we have unparalleled access to the real time news, opinion, factual analysis, stats etc - yet it doesn't always appear to have advanced us.
This is a glimmer of hope that actually the first generation to grow up with that, may actually use it to base their opinions and viewpoints. I still think a bit of work needs to be done to avoid echo chambers, and the idea that we seek out opinions/facts to reinforce our own views, but that all comes under the debate aspect IMO.
I do wonder if May really wants the job of leading us out of Europe. That would be her legacy. The Tory campaign was negative from the party and bland from the leader. Labour ran a good campaign but I'm not convinced this had any impact on the results.
I really do think it's as simple as the UKIP votes returning back to the mainstream parties in England. In Scotland the electorate just don't want another referendum on Independence.
I see myself as neutral so no intended bias in my views.
I do wonder if the Internet or just modern day folk are purely cantankerous. When you look at the previous General Election, the Scottish Referendum, the American Election, Brexit and now this, there has been, arguably, a sizeable number of people voting in a cantankerous way. If there's another election this year, there's no knowing what would happen. The Tories can't play the strong and stable card, Labour can't offer much different, the Lib Dems can only chisel away, the SNP will have a tough job stemming the flow and UKIP will no longer exist hardly. Interesting times though not what we need, in my opinion.
@cabbles I'll be nice, and point out that your post was deleted (By AFKA), you may want to delete that one too. (as it contains it in the quote.)
I stick by my opinion expressed in my response, that you've cropped out of your quote. I could reply, but I wont; a skill I suggest you verse yourself with.
Comments
Did they announce a tax on batter? Wanted to nationalise Irn Bru?
That's a positive at least. Getting the kids interested and involved.
Lets hope we can build on that; from whatever angle your political views are focused on, that's real genuine progress.
It's all one big mess.
The mystery of the incredible disappearing posts.....
Don't know how they split amongst the parties, and that will be interesting to see. But that, to me, is a potential indicator that this was more than a good campaign for Corbyn or a very bad one for May, but that people turned out to actually vote FOR something instead of against something. And if I were Labour, I'd rather have that on my side than the Prime Minister right now (because let's be honest the next few months are gonna be shit for whoever it is).
This is all just speculation. We'll know more in the coming days and weeks.
Another real positive for me is (the hope) that the press have failed in their bid to brainwash the electorate and that more people voted having considered the options more thoroughly. For that to flourish your point about fostering debate is key.
Still looking on the bright side, wait for the markets to open, they'll be volatile but if you can hold your nose you can make a lot of money in the next few weeks.
;-)
Northerners/Welsh went back to their natural party
May had a terrible campaign based on smear and fear rather than what she could offer
The youngsters came out in force which was predictable after Brexit
Corbyn showed a bit of charisma and spirit which the electorate finally saw
When I look at the map of the country it still looks pretty blue, but democracy has spoken, but the immediate future looks pretty bleak in my opinion.
This is a glimmer of hope that actually the first generation to grow up with that, may actually use it to base their opinions and viewpoints. I still think a bit of work needs to be done to avoid echo chambers, and the idea that we seek out opinions/facts to reinforce our own views, but that all comes under the debate aspect IMO. Corbyn's feeling emboldened by last nights results, and the purge is beginning..
I do wonder if May really wants the job of leading us out of Europe. That would be her legacy. The Tory campaign was negative from the party and bland from the leader. Labour ran a good campaign but I'm not convinced this had any impact on the results.
I really do think it's as simple as the UKIP votes returning back to the mainstream parties in England. In Scotland the electorate just don't want another referendum on Independence.
I see myself as neutral so no intended bias in my views.
I stick by my opinion expressed in my response, that you've cropped out of your quote. I could reply, but I wont; a skill I suggest you verse yourself with.