Her war on privacy continues, she seems determined to do this stuff regardless of what happened.
Good.
Because you don't value your own privacy highly? Each to their own I guess.
Yes, I value the lives of people getting murdered by terrorists far more than I do my internet privacy.
Security services can monitor my usage 24/7 if they want, let's face it Tony Keohane already is
All well and good and on the face of it that are what the intentions of it's uses are for. In reality though do you really believe these laws will/are being used just to hunt potential terrorists? The government and local councils have already been caught abusing anti terror laws by using them on the innocent public.
Also are you certain that whatever data they have is completely secure? Not sure I trust the government not to fuck up and lose data or allow access to unauthorised people.
As is mentioned in that article these plans could have the opposite effect and make force those wishing to do us harm into other harder to monitor parts of the Internet.
Let's be honest, as has been shown by Wikileaks, Snowden etc. Governments are already spying on us, this just legitimises it and is a very slippery slope. It all started with the snoopers charter May was desperate to bring in (another nonsense law and helpfully one that doesn't apply to current MPs, how fair). She has shown time and time again she has no regard for civil liberties and absolute disdain for the internet.
But then again some will just shrug their shoulders and say "I've got nothing to hide", presumably these same people would be happy allowing cameras in their own homes?
Like you say I've got nothing to hide and if it saves innocents from being murdered it has my backing.
Which party is supposed to be the nasty party ?
What is it that you do on the internet that you don't want the government to know ?
You just can't have routine encryption that "only the government" can break. It doesn't work like that.
If our government can read your communication so can the American government, the Russian government, the Iranian government, the Syrian government and theoretically Al quaeda and ISIS or any other criminal organisation.
Still not really a problem for me except I wouldn't use my credit card online if I thought https wasn't secure.
Do you really think anyone across all of our political classes can establish a meaningful practical Brexit negotiating position with the political spectrum existing in the new Parliament of today?
Unfortunately not ... and I say that as a person who voted exit. My viewpoint remains unchanged but I despair that any of our politicians have the skills to lead this in a capable way.
I have retired from the keyboard but I will share one primary concern which was reinforced over the course of this election campaign. It is compounded by the end result.
I have no problem with the result. The people have spoken again and our elected officials will need to get on with roles they have been elected to fulfil. It is indeed called “grown up” politics.
I fully recognised the political need for May to call the election but with such a lack of understanding or arrogant disregard of the political landscape coupled with quite possibly the worst campaign in living memory she threw away the very mandate she sought.
As many a military historian will tell you win battles not by any strokes of genius but by making fewer mistakes than your opponent. The first issue is to believe you own headlines which it seems is the novice mistake made (with her approval) by her campaign managers.
Yet from all of the evidence of the last two elections and the referendum it is clear the UK is a divided nation. We are not alone cast your eyes across the world and you will diverse and extreme choices with the likes of Trump and Le Pen to the fore.
No matter your political persuasion you ignore such basic information at your peril.
The Conservatives gained power for the first time in over a decade via a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Nobody believed the Conservatives would win an outright victory in 2015 with everybody misreading the influence of UKIP and the SNP. The Conservatives won because of Labour failings under Ed Milliband to manage those challenges.
The Labour Party since has been unelectable. Their leader could not control his Parliamentary Labour Party. It is still a minority party.
Across all parties has there been a more ineptly run, mistake ridden, confused and frankly unconvincing election campaign in British history? Blunder followed blunder followed blunder as politicians of all flavours stumbled across ill constructed and poorly presented manifestos.
Reflect for a moment on all their performances it presents a serious issue for our future.
The Brexit Referendum result presented our political representatives with an enormous task.
We know the wishes of the British people positioned at the time were and remain virtually undeliverable without at least significant risk to the UK economy and our standard of living.
We will not secure access to the single market without either freedom of movement or paying a huge price for access or both. Noted observers not least Matthew Paris calmly positioned this scenario from Day 1.
Many will now attack Theresa May with just cause. Critics from the Tory right are entitled to feel aggrieved. Their “hard Brexit” was within their grasp. This election result has placed their cause at serious risk. Yet the Tory right have no cause for complaint. They arrogantly refused to present any viable argument for their vision of a successful Brexit – nothing but rhetoric with no substance. We waited for months for the previous government to come up with a cogent, coherent plan for Brexit. It never arrived …… for a reason.
May was unable to reach a consensus opinion within her cabinet never mind the rest of parliament. No matter her appalling campaign performance the woman is not a fool.
Trying to move forward under the old government she would have been held hostage either by the right or the left of centre of the party. THERES WAS NO MIDDLE ROAD. The arguments of either arm of the party could have derailed her negotiations at any point.
To successfully conclude any negotiations you have to have consensus, certainty of purpose and exceptional clarity in terms of your goals and deliverables.
May took a calculated personal risk to empower her negotiating position by seeking a clear mandate from the British people. Through her own incompetence and those of her senior advisors she has failed to secure such a mandate but in truth she has merely maintained the status quo.
In reality NO SUCH MANDATE EVER EXISTED as evidenced by the referendum result and the two recent elections.
Her and our negotiating position is now weakened. May is now damaged, has no overall majority and can now be held hostage by any number of factions. The election result has compounded the challenge of delivering a successful outcome for the Brexit referendum result. We genuinely face the prospect of walking away with nothing.
Call for her resignation if you like but which Conservative politician would you want to replace her? Does it now really matter? Do you really think anyone across all of our political classes can establish a meaningful practical Brexit negotiating position with the political spectrum existing in the new Parliament of today?
We, the electorate, are part of the problem. Parliament is a reflection of the nation they represent. We are truly a nation divided.
A successful Brexit has always been exceptionally unlikely. Today I can but argue it is nigh on undeliverable as beyond all the multitude of undoubted political rainbow of complications there is one simple consideration.
Having viewed the crass ineptitude of our political classes in a simple straight forward election over a six week period is there really a single person you would really want to entrust in representing you in negotiating their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag let alone 2yrs of complex hitherto uncharted negotiations in extracting ourselves from the EU.
Most of the EU can scarcely conceal their bemused amusement.
Many have long questioned if the necessary experience, expertise and appropriate resources were there to achieve a successful Brexit outcome.
The past weeks should leave you in no doubt. Our political classes are simply not up to the job.
There is no turning back. Article 50 has been triggered. It does not augur well.
We truly face a huge, huge step into the unknown. Hang on tight!
Why have you retired from the keyboard grapevine. A lot of people enjoy your posts
I think May ran an awful campaign, however I agree she is/was in a very sticky situation re Brexit, but my sympathy ends there
* She was in favour of remain, and has had to backtrack
*She possibly needed a stronger hand (a bigger majority) to allow her to get a Brexit agreement, although as others have mentioned this was about her own party not others
*She 'had' to take a hard line on the Brexit deal as a negotiating position, that is if you agree negotiation must in any way be public. Either that or..
*She and her colleagues are Naieve enough to genuinely believe we can have our cake and eat it - access to the free market without paying a hefty financial cost and free movement. ( hard to believe)
.. in which case you might as well stay in and accept the handbrake offer. The latter is in my view the best deal we are ever likely to get, the only other deal on the table in reality is a trade deal like Canada and many many years down the line. But what until then, and what off migration and other trade deals until then??? Perhaps as is with handbrake until then.
*She was forced to make more details of the deal she wanted public..
*Getting any Brexit deal that will please most can be extremely difficult, and how will the electorate respond?
*She is totally screwed and echoing others has somehow managed to be a worse PM than Cameron.
Speaking of Cameron he and his pals have royally fucked this country by going for a referendum on Europe which has ended in this mess which could adversely affect us for a generation.
I have retired from the keyboard but I will share one primary concern which was reinforced over the course of this election campaign. It is compounded by the end result.
I have no problem with the result. The people have spoken again and our elected officials will need to get on with roles they have been elected to fulfil. It is indeed called “grown up” politics.
I fully recognised the political need for May to call the election but with such a lack of understanding or arrogant disregard of the political landscape coupled with quite possibly the worst campaign in living memory she threw away the very mandate she sought.
As many a military historian will tell you win battles not by any strokes of genius but by making fewer mistakes than your opponent. The first issue is to believe you own headlines which it seems is the novice mistake made (with her approval) by her campaign managers.
Yet from all of the evidence of the last two elections and the referendum it is clear the UK is a divided nation. We are not alone cast your eyes across the world and you will diverse and extreme choices with the likes of Trump and Le Pen to the fore.
No matter your political persuasion you ignore such basic information at your peril.
The Conservatives gained power for the first time in over a decade via a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Nobody believed the Conservatives would win an outright victory in 2015 with everybody misreading the influence of UKIP and the SNP. The Conservatives won because of Labour failings under Ed Milliband to manage those challenges.
The Labour Party since has been unelectable. Their leader could not control his Parliamentary Labour Party. It is still a minority party.
Across all parties has there been a more ineptly run, mistake ridden, confused and frankly unconvincing election campaign in British history? Blunder followed blunder followed blunder as politicians of all flavours stumbled across ill constructed and poorly presented manifestos.
Reflect for a moment on all their performances it presents a serious issue for our future.
The Brexit Referendum result presented our political representatives with an enormous task.
We know the wishes of the British people positioned at the time were and remain virtually undeliverable without at least significant risk to the UK economy and our standard of living.
We will not secure access to the single market without either freedom of movement or paying a huge price for access or both. Noted observers not least Matthew Paris calmly positioned this scenario from Day 1.
Many will now attack Theresa May with just cause. Critics from the Tory right are entitled to feel aggrieved. Their “hard Brexit” was within their grasp. This election result has placed their cause at serious risk. Yet the Tory right have no cause for complaint. They arrogantly refused to present any viable argument for their vision of a successful Brexit – nothing but rhetoric with no substance. We waited for months for the previous government to come up with a cogent, coherent plan for Brexit. It never arrived …… for a reason.
May was unable to reach a consensus opinion within her cabinet never mind the rest of parliament. No matter her appalling campaign performance the woman is not a fool.
Trying to move forward under the old government she would have been held hostage either by the right or the left of centre of the party. THERES WAS NO MIDDLE ROAD. The arguments of either arm of the party could have derailed her negotiations at any point.
To successfully conclude any negotiations you have to have consensus, certainty of purpose and exceptional clarity in terms of your goals and deliverables.
May took a calculated personal risk to empower her negotiating position by seeking a clear mandate from the British people. Through her own incompetence and those of her senior advisors she has failed to secure such a mandate but in truth she has merely maintained the status quo.
In reality NO SUCH MANDATE EVER EXISTED as evidenced by the referendum result and the two recent elections.
Her and our negotiating position is now weakened. May is now damaged, has no overall majority and can now be held hostage by any number of factions. The election result has compounded the challenge of delivering a successful outcome for the Brexit referendum result. We genuinely face the prospect of walking away with nothing.
Call for her resignation if you like but which Conservative politician would you want to replace her? Does it now really matter? Do you really think anyone across all of our political classes can establish a meaningful practical Brexit negotiating position with the political spectrum existing in the new Parliament of today?
We, the electorate, are part of the problem. Parliament is a reflection of the nation they represent. We are truly a nation divided.
A successful Brexit has always been exceptionally unlikely. Today I can but argue it is nigh on undeliverable as beyond all the multitude of undoubted political rainbow of complications there is one simple consideration.
Having viewed the crass ineptitude of our political classes in a simple straight forward election over a six week period is there really a single person you would really want to entrust in representing you in negotiating their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag let alone 2yrs of complex hitherto uncharted negotiations in extracting ourselves from the EU.
Most of the EU can scarcely conceal their bemused amusement.
Many have long questioned if the necessary experience, expertise and appropriate resources were there to achieve a successful Brexit outcome.
The past weeks should leave you in no doubt. Our political classes are simply not up to the job.
There is no turning back. Article 50 has been triggered. It does not augur well.
We truly face a huge, huge step into the unknown. Hang on tight!
This is something I argued in the brexit thread. It doesn't matter whether you think brexit is a good idea or not. A good result was only ever achievable with competent leadership to get a good deal. We didn't have it before the referendum and since then we have actually seen our government get progressively worse.
So there was no way anybody should have voted for brexit at this time.
We may one day have the sort of leaders who could achieve a successful brexit, but we don't have then currently.
Every non-tory party should be pushing hard for a second referendum, and position it not as usurping the democratic will of the people, but as a vote of no confidence in the ability of the Tories to not screw us completely.
Brexit was always going to be an extraordinarily difficult thing to deliver. The hard Brexit negotiating ploy and threats to the 27 used by May only reinforced the division within the country.
Outside of the swivel eyed loonies in the Tory party and UKIP of course, who actually thought hard Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal was a good thing. If May actually did then she's even more stupid than this election has showed her up to be.
What we can expect is a shambles of a Brexit negotiation. We don't have any cards to play. Remaining part of the single market and customs union now seems what's necessary to ensure least negative impact on our economy. Corbyn was saying 'Brexit for jobs" and I've now heard at least two Tory MP's using that exact phrase. The type of Brexit the people have demanded will come at a cost. My guess is some control over movement of people but with a hefty subscription to the point of £350 million a week to remain part of the single market. Brexit will have been a total exercise in stupidity.
Whatever happens with the negotiations the country will be split over its outcome and someone will need to be blamed.
i am still scratching my head as to how the tories could have come up with such an appalling manifesto. There didn't seem to be anything in it for anyone. A ten year old could have read through that and made a huge list of the glaring errors in it - it was a series of u turns waiting to happen. I don't know who wrote it, but it doesn't seem to have been subject to any kind of review or scrutiny internally before it was rushed out. I can only assume massive complacency caused them to believe they could get away with any old shit. Mind you, they just about have. but more heads need to roll over that debacle, and I'm sure they will in the near future.
Quite simply they thought their poll lead gave them carte blanche to 'fix' a number of areas. If you are going to make difficult decisions don't give details before an election
A weak government clawing on to power in an economy that isn't thriving - do you think that increases or decreases popularity? We have to remember that the split with Labour was 41% to 43% and that anti Conservative parties had more voters. But the Conservatives are terrified of another election now so they don't see any other option of trying to cling on which weakens them. They are sort of hoping something good happens for them or something bad happens to Labour.
It was calculated that the difference between a Labour Government and a Tory one was around 2k votes - that is the fine margin facing the Tories!
And anti labour had even more.
Great post @Grapevine49 sums it up, divided we stand divided we fall ........
Cybersecurity experts have said that Theresa May's surveillance laws will actually make Britons less safe but like on most things she is ploughing through with more dangerous and ill-conceived legislation.
Theresa May has absolutely no intention to improve things on a counter-terrorism front. These laws are only there so the Tories can spy on law-abiding Britons. The government is manifestly against the British people, not with it.
Cybersecurity experts have said that Theresa May's surveillance laws will actually make Britons less safe but like on most things she is ploughing through with more dangerous and ill-conceived legislation.
Theresa May has absolutely no intention to improve things on a counter-terrorism front. These laws are only there so the Tories can spy on law-abiding Britons. The government is manifestly against the British people, not with it.
Governments of all hues love a crisis to remove freedoms under the guise of security for all.
Old world versus new. Massive surge of young voters realising that if things keep going the way they're going (student fees, housing etc) it will be a very difficult future.
Also younger generations much more accepting of LGBT rights etc (it even popped up as an emoji when I typed that).
The fact that they have been mobilised sufficiently really has just ramped up the division grapevine writes of
Just reading about possible Tory responses to this election. Personally I now think they're all over the shop. They may have secured the most seats but that closeness in the popular (just over 800,000 votes) says it all.
I thought this thread would wind down after the election. I could be very wrong
A weak government clawing on to power in an economy that isn't thriving - do you think that increases or decreases popularity? We have to remember that the split with Labour was 41% to 43% and that anti Conservative parties had more voters. But the Conservatives are terrified of another election now so they don't see any other option of trying to cling on which weakens them. They are sort of hoping something good happens for them or something bad happens to Labour.
It was calculated that the difference between a Labour Government and a Tory one was around 2k votes - that is the fine margin facing the Tories!
And anti labour had even more.
Great post @Grapevine49 sums it up, divided we stand divided we fall ........
Anti conservative is more united than anti Labour. There would be no shortage of parties willing to support Labour keep out the Tories if it were possible. But it is the bigger picture that needs looking at. A big thing for me was the singlemarket - or rather tariff free trading with Europe - My company deals with Europe and I know how difficult it is to deal with non EU countires like China - the people who say otherwise haven't got the experience or knowledge. We have! We have tried it with Brexit in mind.
Now that a hard Brexit looks impossible, I am more than happy for a fataly wounded Tory party to negotiate the soft one. What saddens me is the social justice that was so closemay have to wait 6 months to a couple of years - but we have to be patient and appreciate that 7 weeks ago it looked impossible, now it looks very likely to come.
May chucked her majority away by a disastrous campaign and utter nonesense of a manifesto. That is obvious to all of us. she drove Tory voters and potential voters away and despite having the biggest vote for years, she could have had so much more.
I think that the single biggest draw for Labour was the pledge to do away with university fees and even refund fees already paid.
I understand why this would be attractive but it is economic nonesense. When the country is in so much debt, money needs to be reeled in somewhere.
In 1992 there were 984,000 full time students aged 18-24. In 2016 there were 1,870,000. As a country, we need to make sensible choices and I think that we either keep fees or reduce free uni places back to a manageable level. Extra places/courses could be made available for fees.
I guess that I will be shot down by some but if more money is to be borrowed I would much rather it go into providing more social housing, roads or hs2. In otherwords, projects I would see as an investment in our infastructure, as I would see this as better than investing in academia.
I understand the benefits of a well educated population but there are other priorities too.
May chucked her majority away by a disastrous campaign and utter nonesense of a manifesto. That is obvious to all of us. she drove Tory voters and potential voters away and despite having the biggest vote for years, she could have had so much more.
I think that the single biggest draw for Labour was the pledge to do away with university fees and even refund fees already paid.
I understand why this would be attractive but it is economic nonesense. When the country is in so much debt, money needs to be reeled in somewhere.
In 1992 there were 984,000 full time students aged 18-24. In 2016 there were 1,870,000. As a country, we need to make sensible choices and I think that we either keep fees or reduce free uni places back to a manageable level. Extra places/courses could be made available for fees.
I guess that I will be shot down by some but if more money is to be borrowed I would much rather it go into providing more social housing, roads or hs2. In otherwords, projects I would see as an investment in our infastructure, as I would see this as better than investing in academia.
I understand the benefits of a well educated population but there are other priorities too.
Of course there will need to be borrowing, but there is also spending out of resources that we already have. Not so much tax and spend but take and spend. Put up VAT on discretionary spending possibly or simply tell the population that if you want it, like nuclear weapons, then front up and pay for it.
As a catholic child born in the 80s and having grown up hearing of IRA atttociites etc, I'm ashamed to say I am absolutely ignorant to what has gone on in Nothern Ireland in my lifetime.
All I've picked up from the DUP coming into play so far is that they are a Protestant group who back NI remaining part of the UK.
I genuinely don't have a grip on any of it. Sinn Fein, the IRA, marching orange men etc. It baffles me and I wouldn't even know where to start to get my head round it. Can anyone summarise it if possible. I would like to understand a bit more about it now with this DUP thing
Cybersecurity experts have said that Theresa May's surveillance laws will actually make Britons less safe but like on most things she is ploughing through with more dangerous and ill-conceived legislation.
Theresa May has absolutely no intention to improve things on a counter-terrorism front. These laws are only there so the Tories can spy on law-abiding Britons. The government is manifestly against the British people, not with it.
As a catholic child born in the 80s and having grown up hearing of IRA atttociites etc, I'm ashamed to say I am absolutely ignorant to what has gone on in Nothern Ireland in my lifetime.
All I've picked up from the DUP coming into play so far is that they are a Protestant group who back NI remaining part of the UK.
I genuinely don't have a grip on any of it. Sinn Fein, the IRA, marching orange men etc. It baffles me and I wouldn't even know where to start to get my head round it. Can anyone summarise it if possible. I would like to understand a bit more about it now with this DUP thing
I won't try to explain Irish history, but essentially it has been a battle of two cultures and two versions of the same religion, and powerful v powerless. One side wants the island of Ireland to be united as one country, the other side wants all or part of the island to be part of the UK. People want those things badly enough, that in the past criminals have been guilty of horrendous bloodshed to do what they think is furthering their aims. It is a pretty deep rift, and it goes back hundreds of years.
Ok this is my take on student fees at university. I may well be completely wrong and if I am I look forward to the reason why. I truly believe that every child in the UK regardless of background deserves a free education from infancy up to the age of 18.
Once you have turned 18 you are an adult and should be expected to pay your own way in the world. I would heavily subsidise university fees for people studying to be a Doctor or a Dentist or other professions that we all rely on. But for students who are studying some of the ridiculous subjects that I have heard of why shouldn't they pay for their own tuition. Why should young school leavers working in low paid manual jobs be expected to pay tax towards students fees.
Comments
If our government can read your communication so can the American government, the Russian government, the Iranian government, the Syrian government and theoretically Al quaeda and ISIS or any other criminal organisation.
Still not really a problem for me except I wouldn't use my credit card online if I thought https wasn't secure.
Do you really think anyone across all of our political classes can establish a meaningful practical Brexit negotiating position with the political spectrum existing in the new Parliament of today?
Unfortunately not ... and I say that as a person who voted exit. My viewpoint remains unchanged but I despair that any of our politicians have the skills to lead this in a capable way.
* She was in favour of remain, and has had to backtrack
*She possibly needed a stronger hand (a bigger majority) to allow her to get a Brexit agreement, although as others have mentioned this was about her own party not others
*She 'had' to take a hard line on the Brexit deal as a negotiating position, that is if you agree negotiation must in any way be public. Either that or..
*She and her colleagues are Naieve enough to genuinely believe we can have our cake and eat it - access to the free market without paying a hefty financial cost and free movement. ( hard to believe)
.. in which case you might as well stay in and accept the handbrake offer. The latter is in my view the best deal we are ever likely to get, the only other deal on the table in reality is a trade deal like Canada and many many years down the line. But what until then, and what off migration and other trade deals until then??? Perhaps as is with handbrake until then.
*She was forced to make more details of the deal she wanted public..
*Getting any Brexit deal that will please most can be extremely difficult, and how will the electorate respond?
*She is totally screwed and echoing others has somehow managed to be a worse PM than Cameron.
Speaking of Cameron he and his pals have royally fucked this country by going for a referendum on Europe which has ended in this mess which could adversely affect us for a generation.
So there was no way anybody should have voted for brexit at this time.
We may one day have the sort of leaders who could achieve a successful brexit, but we don't have then currently.
Every non-tory party should be pushing hard for a second referendum, and position it not as usurping the democratic will of the people, but as a vote of no confidence in the ability of the Tories to not screw us completely.
Outside of the swivel eyed loonies in the Tory party and UKIP of course, who actually thought hard Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal was a good thing. If May actually did then she's even more stupid than this election has showed her up to be.
What we can expect is a shambles of a Brexit negotiation. We don't have any cards to play. Remaining part of the single market and customs union now seems what's necessary to ensure least negative impact on our economy. Corbyn was saying 'Brexit for jobs" and I've now heard at least two Tory MP's using that exact phrase. The type of Brexit the people have demanded will come at a cost. My guess is some control over movement of people but with a hefty subscription to the point of £350 million a week to remain part of the single market. Brexit will have been a total exercise in stupidity.
Whatever happens with the negotiations the country will be split over its outcome and someone will need to be blamed.
Good luck Theresa or Boris with that.
I don't know who wrote it, but it doesn't seem to have been subject to any kind of review or scrutiny internally before it was rushed out. I can only assume massive complacency caused them to believe they could get away with any old shit. Mind you, they just about have. but more heads need to roll over that debacle, and I'm sure they will in the near future.
Great post @Grapevine49 sums it up, divided we stand divided we fall ........
Theresa May has absolutely no intention to improve things on a counter-terrorism front. These laws are only there so the Tories can spy on law-abiding Britons. The government is manifestly against the British people, not with it.
Also younger generations much more accepting of LGBT rights etc (it even popped up as an emoji when I typed that).
The fact that they have been mobilised sufficiently really has just ramped up the division grapevine writes of
Just reading about possible Tory responses to this election. Personally I now think they're all over the shop. They may have secured the most seats but that closeness in the popular (just over 800,000 votes) says it all.
I thought this thread would wind down after the election. I could be very wrong
Now that a hard Brexit looks impossible, I am more than happy for a fataly wounded Tory party to negotiate the soft one. What saddens me is the social justice that was so closemay have to wait 6 months to a couple of years - but we have to be patient and appreciate that 7 weeks ago it looked impossible, now it looks very likely to come.
I think that the single biggest draw for Labour was the pledge to do away with university fees and even refund fees already paid.
I understand why this would be attractive but it is economic nonesense. When the country is in so much debt, money needs to be reeled in somewhere.
In 1992 there were 984,000 full time students aged 18-24. In 2016 there were 1,870,000. As a country, we need to make sensible choices and I think that we either keep fees or reduce free uni places back to a manageable level. Extra places/courses could be made available for fees.
I guess that I will be shot down by some but if more money is to be borrowed I would much rather it go into providing more social housing, roads or hs2. In otherwords, projects I would see as an investment in our infastructure, as I would see this as better than investing in academia.
I understand the benefits of a well educated population but there are other priorities too.
Ref.
http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-has-the-student-population-changed/
Put up VAT on discretionary spending possibly or simply tell the population that if you want it, like nuclear weapons, then front up and pay for it.
All I've picked up from the DUP coming into play so far is that they are a Protestant group who back NI remaining part of the UK.
I genuinely don't have a grip on any of it. Sinn Fein, the IRA, marching orange men etc. It baffles me and I wouldn't even know where to start to get my head round it. Can anyone summarise it if possible. I would like to understand a bit more about it now with this DUP thing
but as you want to keep your seat for the next 5 years you wont do anything. COWARDS to lot of them.
One side wants the island of Ireland to be united as one country, the other side wants all or part of the island to be part of the UK.
People want those things badly enough, that in the past criminals have been guilty of horrendous bloodshed to do what they think is furthering their aims.
It is a pretty deep rift, and it goes back hundreds of years.
I may well be completely wrong and if I am I look forward to the reason why.
I truly believe that every child in the UK regardless of background deserves a free education from infancy up to the age of 18.
Once you have turned 18 you are an adult and should be expected to pay your own way in the world.
I would heavily subsidise university fees for people studying to be a Doctor or a Dentist or other professions that we all rely on.
But for students who are studying some of the ridiculous subjects that I have heard of why shouldn't they pay for their own tuition.
Why should young school leavers working in low paid manual jobs be expected to pay tax towards students fees.