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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • edited October 2017
    I think the realistic Tories must see that Ruth Davidson is the only person who looks like they might be able to turn their fortunes around. In the next two years, things are going to get worse not better. They need May to stick it out whilst they find a way to get Davidson in and Johnson is seen as a disloyal nuisance by many of them - apart from those that support him of course.
  • edited October 2017

    I think the realistic Tories must see that Ruth Davidson is the only person who looks like they might be able to turn their fortunes around. In the next two years, things are going to get worse not better. They need May to stick it out whilst they find a way to get Davidson in and Johnson is seen as a disloyal nuisance by many of them - apart from those that support him of course.

    Davidson is a political operator that's for sure but I'm not sure that she would be accepted by the bulk of the Tory party. How can she have a foot in both Holyrood and Westminster ? Think the electorate would also balk at that.

  • I find it incredible that we have gone from a Labour Party in total disarray to the Tories doing likewise from a seemingly invincible position.

    David Cameron's referendum was a complete
    disaster and now Tory activists seem determined to put an utter loon in charge of the party - BoJo or Moggy both seem popular. It almost seems like they are hellbent on destroying the party.

    Ruth Davidson seems a far more credible and modern leader but the chances of a Scottish lesbian being accepted by the average Tory activist seems very low.
  • She is their best hope and Labour would fear her. They hope for Johnson and Mogg!
  • Leuth said:

    I'd hope Boris or JRM were unelectable, but one should never underestimate the British propensity to genuflect before the landed

    The British love a posh buffoon who knows Latin, can quote Kipling and is a bit of a character. BoJo would make a great PM and I'm sure would do a wonderful job over Brexit making witty comments about the EU and foreigners.
    Jacob could perhaps be Chancellor and continue pretending he's living in the 1930s.
    .
  • Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    Based on what nearly happened last time. I think Amber Rudd could very well lose her seat at the next election.
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  • edited October 2017

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    Based on what nearly happened last time. I think Amber Rudd could very well lose her seat at the next election.
    She failed to lose her seat last time and that was after she said her own constituents were a bunch of benefit scroungers who came to Hastings because they preferred to scrounge benefits by the seaside.
  • Leuth said:

    I'd hope Boris or JRM were unelectable, but one should never underestimate the British propensity to genuflect before the landed

    The British love a posh buffoon who knows Latin, can quote Kipling and is a bit of a character.
    How The Leuth Got His Site Moderator Position
  • Fiiish said:

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    Based on what nearly happened last time. I think Amber Rudd could very well lose her seat at the next election.
    She failed to lose her seat last time and that was after she said her own constituents were a bunch of benefit scroungers who came to Hastings because they preferred to scrounge benefits by the seaside.
    That's true but since then the polls have shifted further.

  • edited October 2017
    Leuth said:

    Leuth said:

    I'd hope Boris or JRM were unelectable, but one should never underestimate the British propensity to genuflect before the landed

    The British love a posh buffoon who knows Latin, can quote Kipling and is a bit of a character.
    How The Leuth Got His Site Moderator Position
    I'll quash this before it even picks up some pace

    I've already got king of the crab sticks and dazzler sniffing around, I don't need another usurper
  • Great speech from Boris today - master orator.
    His sincerity shone through and such a trustworthy guy.

    Would be great if him and Farage sorted out Brexit - they'd give Johnny foreigner a bloody nose. We need to get our country back!

    Boris for PM!!!
  • Great speech from Boris today - master orator.
    His sincerity shone through and such a trustworthy guy.

    Would be great if him and Farage sorted out Brexit - they'd give Johnny foreigner a bloody nose. We need to get our country back!

    Boris for PM!!!

    If you paid attention to what he said Boris has sorted:

    North Korea
    Global Warming
    Terrorism
    Brexit.
  • Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

  • seth plum said:

    Great speech from Boris today - master orator.
    His sincerity shone through and such a trustworthy guy.

    Would be great if him and Farage sorted out Brexit - they'd give Johnny foreigner a bloody nose. We need to get our country back!

    Boris for PM!!!

    If you paid attention to what he said Boris has sorted:

    North Korea
    Global Warming
    Terrorism
    Brexit.
    I thought Trump had done this....
  • Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    I agree but how do you get to see who gives a person a flag? I am obviously not clique.
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  • Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Not sure why you'd assume it was alcohol fuelled, but I found the idea that our media would suddenly ignore the worst mass shooting in US history to be quite offensive.
  • Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Not sure why you'd assume it was alcohol fuelled, but I found the idea that our media would suddenly ignore the worst mass shooting in US history to be quite offensive.
    I think the worse mass shooting in US history probably occured in Japan, or Korea, or Vietnam, or Iraq or Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya or Syria or a few more places.
  • edited October 2017

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Not sure why you'd assume it was alcohol fuelled, but I found the idea that our media would suddenly ignore the worst mass shooting in US history to be quite offensive.
    Apologies for any offence caused, that certainly wasn't the way it was intended. I was only referring to Diane's last gaffe which received blanket coverage in spite of far more important events happening in the world. It was more a remark on our media's obsession with putting her back in her box than the idea that gaffes are more important than tragedies (I also wasn't suggesting that the media should have been concentrating on Amber Rudd instead of Vegas).
  • edited October 2017
    Boris does do a speech that doesn't bore you to death - part of it seems the ad lib asides he makes. I was thinking when watching him that whilst some of his jokes hit because they were ad libs, this is part of his problem. He thinks he is a bit cleverer than he actually is and his confidence means he always runs the risk of saying something completely stupid. Then I wake up to what he has said. People seem to be more forgiving of Boris, imagine if May had said what he said for instance! And that is the problem - if he wants to be Prime Minsiter he has to be prime Ministerial I suppose some people will argue that if Trump can get in, why not Boris? Personally, I don't think it works quite the same here.
  • I wouldn't discount Boris although I don't personally think he'd make a good PM. I get you point on priministerial but as you say Trump and of course Corbyn hardly fit that bill (IMHO) but have enjoyed or are enjoying success.
  • Boris does do a speech that doesn't bore you to death - part of it seems the ad lib asides he makes. I was thinking when watching him that whilst some of his jokes hit because they were ad libs, this is part of his problem. He thinks he is a bit cleverer than he actually is and his confidence means he always runs the risk of saying something completely stupid. Then I wake up to what he has said. People seem to be more forgiving of Boris, imagine if May had said what he said for instance! And that is the problem - if he wants to be Prime Minsiter he has to be prime Ministerial I suppose some people will argue that if Trump can get in, why not Boris? Personally, I don't think it works quite the same here.

    Trump is President whereas Boris wants to be PM - I think he has made quite a few enemies in the party but his media profile is high.

    If we had a Presidency here I could see populist politicians like Farage and BoJo coming to the fore due to their high media presence. The voting public don't seem bothered if a populist politician has next to no policies and nothing constructive to say.

    Boris is for me just a posh version of Trump who thrives on publicity and I have no idea if he believes in anything.

    His behaviour over Brexit was shocking especially the peddling of half-truths and I'm bored of his buffoon act.

  • Fiiish said:

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Fiiish said:

    In all seriousness though, imagine an alternate reality where Diane Abbott, having spent 14 months decrying the evils of encryption, was forced to admit she didn't even know what it was. You would only see the news regarding Tom Petty and Vegas in snippets in between the rolling 24 hour coverage of the stupid woman.

    Luckily for her, Amber Rudd is a nice upper class lady and so avoids any similar media crucifixion similar to whatever Abbott gets every time she dares to talk out of turn.

    @Stu_of_Kunming On what - presumably alcohol fuelled - planet does that deserve a flag?

    Not sure why you'd assume it was alcohol fuelled, but I found the idea that our media would suddenly ignore the worst mass shooting in US history to be quite offensive.
    Apologies for any offence caused, that certainly wasn't the way it was intended. I was only referring to Diane's last gaffe which received blanket coverage in spite of far more important events happening in the world. It was more a remark on our media's obsession with putting her back in her box than the idea that gaffes are more important than tragedies (I also wasn't suggesting that the media should have been concentrating on Amber Rudd instead of Vegas).
    It was perfectly clear what you meant. I struggle to see how someone could be genuinely offended by the post.
  • The snag (and it's a big one) for Boris as potential leader is that the party members only get to vote on a choice of two. If there are more candidates, it's the MPs only that get to vote to whittle down numbers to the final two. Boris is generally hated by a significant number of Tory MPs. His chances of getting to the last two are tiny. (Still stranger things have happened.)
    A snag for The Conservatives is that a leadership contestant has to be nominated by two MPs. They might have to re-write this rule the way things are going. Will they have that many MPs after the next election?
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