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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    I doubt Amber Rudd will be going anywhere as all roads then (regarding Windrush) lead to Theresa May.

    I know it is like comparing Millwall to C. Palace but I sort of prefer May to Cameron, but Cameron knew he had to detoxify the Tory brand to win power. The current lot don't even get that they have to at least pretend to be modern and inclusive they would rather just play to their base which is very short term.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Greenie said:

    Has Amber cRudd resigned yet? If not, why not?

    Politicians don’t resign anymore, if they did we’d be long shot of Corbyn and may by now
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    Cordoban Addick said:

    I doubt Amber Rudd will be going anywhere as all roads then (regarding Windrush) lead to Theresa May.

    I know it is like comparing Millwall to C. Palace but I sort of prefer May to Cameron, but Cameron knew he had to detoxify the Tory brand to win power. The current lot don't even get that they have to at least pretend to be modern and inclusive they would rather just play to their base which is very short term.

    Realpolitik - was ever thus.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    bobmunro said:

    Cordoban Addick said:

    I doubt Amber Rudd will be going anywhere as all roads then (regarding Windrush) lead to Theresa May.

    I know it is like comparing Millwall to C. Palace but I sort of prefer May to Cameron, but Cameron knew he had to detoxify the Tory brand to win power. The current lot don't even get that they have to at least pretend to be modern and inclusive they would rather just play to their base which is very short term.

    Realpolitik - was ever thus.
    The irony though that amber Rudd almost lost her seat so should be changing her views to reflect her constituents.
  • harveys_gardener
    harveys_gardener Posts: 7,038
    edited April 2018
    Worse (if possible) of our treatment of Windrush immigrants is our total silence on the treatment of people from Chagos.

    We stole their territory with threats of violence, expelled the populace and now their children are faced with thoussnds of pounds in fees and hoops to jump through to stay here. Where will we deport them to, considering we have given the island to the US?
  • rananegra
    rananegra Posts: 3,689
    One of the things that's puzzled me recently is that the Tory candidate for Lewisham Mayor (who hasn't got a hope in hell anyway) is standing on a platform of reintroducing a weekly bin collection. I can't figure this out - there are 3 bin collections in Lewisham; recycling (weekly), food waste (weekly) and other (fortnightly). Is that really the best he can come up with, in an age of austerity where schools, social services, etc are all under immense pressure, is to increase rubbish collections for stuff that isn't recyclable? This is something I genuinely don't understand - if it was food waste being left for a fortnight, yes, but plastic film and polystyrene?

    (To be fair he does also talk about affordable housing, the Millwall CPO and transport, but so do all the other serious candidates )

  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,623


    Not sure how she can stay in the job.
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,752
    Maybe the Tories could change their approach by deciding to tell the truth.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    guinnessaddick said:



    Not sure how she can stay in the job.
    Just like the rest of the horrible bastards she’ll hang around like a bad smell.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595

    guinnessaddick said:


    What a front page....... Abba are making music again.
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  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    edited April 2018
    guinnessaddick said:



    Not sure how she can stay in the job.
    Leak says Rudd was told about migrants?

    Well, for starters it's asparagus....
  • Manicmania
    Manicmania Posts: 1,594
    edited April 2018
    I think he just needs to apply himself a bit more - but there is a lot of wasted potential there with him, there was a time during his first stint at Athletico Madrid and his time at Liverpool I thought he would be up there with Messi and Ronaldo he was such a good finisher - Chelsea really ruined him.

    Edit sorry guys I read the thread title as how does Torres need to change.... my apologies! No offence meant! This is what happens when you try to block the pain of a broken leg with alcohol! nothing to see here carry on....
  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    Rudd gone, so that's a start!
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    Rudd gone, so that's a start!

    Wow. Clear path to the boss now.
  • Greenie
    Greenie Posts: 9,172
    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    Rudd gone, so that's a start!

    About time an appalling women, now surely May the incompetent must go!
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,995
    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    Rudd gone, so that's a start!

    Ha, wait to see who replaces her. Michael Gove anyone ?
  • Anna_Kissed
    Anna_Kissed Posts: 3,302
    edited April 2018
    Woeful, Wheatfield Wanderer.
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,051
    All roads lead to May. Her policy, her targets, she knew Rudd had misled Parliament.
  • Addickted2U
    Addickted2U Posts: 3,080
    Maid of Windrush given the Bum’s Rush.
    Now for Maybot?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    edited April 2018
    Any sympathy expressed towards Rudd ought to be set alongside any one of the many stories we have heard recently from the Windrush generation.
    Those guys had their jobs, driving licences, health services and right to stay taken away. Some were detained, some refused travel, even deported.
    Amber Rudd resigning so what, she has got off lightly compared to what some of the Windrush generation went through.
    Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from me beyond recognising she has been shafted by Theresa May.
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  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    seth plum said:

    Any sympathy expressed towards Rudd ought to be set alongside any one of the many stories we have heard recently from the Windrush generation.
    Those guys had their jobs, driving licences, health services and right to stay taken away. Some were detained, some refused travel, even deported.
    Amber Rudd resigning so what, she has got off lightly compared to what some of the Windrush generation went through.
    Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from me beyond recognising she has been shafted by Theresa May.

    British citizens illegally detained and deported, governments have fallen for less.
  • mcgrandall
    mcgrandall Posts: 931
    TelMc32 said:

    All roads lead to May. Her policy, her targets, she knew Rudd had misled Parliament.

    And made the whole party look like fools with the concerted public effort to back her.

    May's position has been untenable since the general election. They are only going to get rid of her when her use of as a scapegoat is over.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,444
    Credit to Rudd for her determination not to resign - very classy. Nobody seems to take responsibility for anything these days.
  • seriously_red
    seriously_red Posts: 5,741
    mcgrandall said:

    TelMc32 said:

    All roads lead to May. Her policy, her targets, she knew Rudd had misled Parliament.

    And made the whole party look like fools with the concerted public effort to back her.

    May's position has been untenable since the general election. They are only going to get rid of her when her use of as a scapegoat is over.
    100% agree
    My position against centrist compromise (third way) has been adopted as there is only one opposition force to take this nonsense out.

    Brexit itself is not the problem - there is a far wider Alt-right movement at large blaming immigrants and Muslims. All this bollox about 100,000 or 200,000 immigrants is dog whistle destructive Alt-right nonsense.

    May and Rudd (And others) took this path in order to swallow up UKIP. We will see where this goes in 2019?
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,334
    It will be interesting to see how those people who take every opportunity to attack Diane Abbott will reflect on how the Home Secretary has fallen on her sword within days of her being asked to do so by the Shadow Home Secretary.

    I suspect Diane Abbott's opponents are too set in their ways to change their opinion or rhetoric, but Amber Rudd is quite a big first scalp for Diane Abbott.
  • Addickted4life
    Addickted4life Posts: 7,467
    I guess the government is well and truly.....

    RUDDerless now!!!

    (I'll show myself out)
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,444
    Hoping for Jeremy Hunt or Gove to take over from Rudd. In the long run I think we need Boris or the Moggster to replace May to put the party back on track.
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,085
    Change is going well, nearly there.
    image
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    The issue is when you make numerical promises for political gain that you can't keep. Illegal immigration is not easy to address - the clue is in the word illegal. The people you want to find don't want to be found and others are making money from them so they don't want you to find them either. You have to resource the investigation of this but when you set home office targets that are impossibly challenging - and put pressure on officers to get results, they will look for the low lying fruit.

    Then you have the Windrush victims who could be picked off quite easily and shamefully due to their lack of documentation, some of which you have destroyed yourself. When you hear the back stories of how some people have been affected - being deprived life saving treatment, missing funerals of loved ones, marriage breakdowns - these are people who are not illegal immigrants and who this country encouraged to come here and work here, these are people paying their taxes and contributions. It is completely shameful. It is right there are resignations.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,444
    MuttleyCAFC said:

    The issue is when you make numerical promises for political gain that you can't keep. Illegal immigration is not easy to address - the clue is in the word illegal. The people you want to find don't want to be found and others are making money from them so they don't want you to find them either. You have to resource the investigation of this but when you set home office targets that are impossibly challenging - and put pressure on officers to get results, they will look for the low lying fruit.

    Then you have the Windrush victims who could be picked off quite easily and shamefully due to their lack of documentation, some of which you have destroyed yourself. When you hear the back stories of how some people have been affected - being deprived life saving treatment, missing funerals of loved ones, marriage breakdowns - these are people who are not illegal immigrants and who this country encouraged to come here and work here, these are people paying their taxes and contributions. It is completely shameful. It is right there are resignations.

    It is sadly the nature of politics to make empty promises and then come up with ill thought out policies that aren't adequately resourced. The electorate vote for this garbage, the Brexit campaign being a case in point, and then act surprised when things don't work out as they expected.

    The adversarial nature of our politics has meant short-termism is the order of the day with both major parties focussed on point scoring. Winning elections is more important than long term planning which inevitably means a lot of half-arsed ideas.

    Strong immigration rhetoric will be a vote winner - it doesn't appear to matter how poor the policies are surrounding it.

    The only real change I can see in recent political history is that people take longer to resign.
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