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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • edited April 2018
    I think the problem is that Politicians are sometimes more interested in having the numbers that make them look better than solving the problems. I recall many moons ago when I worked with People with disabilities. I recall there was a charity that helped people with severe mental health issues, find, hold down and keep jobs. They were very successful and it kept people well and it was clear it was saving the health service money. The problem is, if you keep people well, how can you prove they would become ill if you weren't supporting them - it is only common sense that tells you this.

    So when health budgets were cut, this service was closed despite again common sense telling you that it was saving tax payers money as well as the social and health benefits. Using common sense and intelligence is generally far better than applying targets.
  • seth plum said:

    Any sympathy expressed towards Rudd ought to be set alongside any one of the many stories we have heard recently from the Windrush generation.
    Those guys had their jobs, driving licences, health services and right to stay taken away. Some were detained, some refused travel, even deported.
    Amber Rudd resigning so what, she has got off lightly compared to what some of the Windrush generation went through.
    Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from me beyond recognising she has been shafted by Theresa May.

    Amber Rudd was there to do Mays talking and May is there to take the brunt of Brexit.

    It will be Corbyn vs Bojo for PM.... labour will get in and blamed for the state of the UK during brexit and then we'll have the tories in charge again.
  • shine166 said:

    seth plum said:

    Any sympathy expressed towards Rudd ought to be set alongside any one of the many stories we have heard recently from the Windrush generation.
    Those guys had their jobs, driving licences, health services and right to stay taken away. Some were detained, some refused travel, even deported.
    Amber Rudd resigning so what, she has got off lightly compared to what some of the Windrush generation went through.
    Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from me beyond recognising she has been shafted by Theresa May.

    Amber Rudd was there to do Mays talking and May is there to take the brunt of Brexit.

    It will be Corbyn vs Bojo for PM.... labour will get in and blamed for the state of the UK during brexit and then we'll have the tories in charge again.
    Corbyn has been pro-Brexit for ages so I don't see he can argue much of a case. We could end up with Dianne Abbott as Home Secretary which could be the ultimate Car crash

    What a set of politicians we have at present!
  • Right. Who's next?
  • Chizz said:

    Right. Who's next?

    Sajid Javid, obviously.
  • edited April 2018
    Didn't have a game on Sunday morning for a change and watched Brandon Lewis dig Rudd's grave for her. He basically admitted there was a target even though he was trying to say it was not the target Rudd meant when she denied there were any. What he said was pretty stupid and I was wincing in embaressment for him, if you say you put £10bn in to resource a 10% reduction it isn't enough to call it an ambition and not a target!

    So now we know that - does the government spend £10bn and not seek updates on progress towards the target? Do the civil servants get pressured to meet those targets. It is inconceivable that Rudd whas not aware of this nor that she didn't have to regularly report progress upwards.

    But the problem here is not targets per say. It is that there were insufficient safeguards to ensure the money was spent in the areas it needed to be spent in. The Windrush victims were the easy targets so that civil servants could get their bonuses and the government had the story for the election - we spent £10bn and increased actions on illegal immigrants by 10%. It is all about the numbers not the reality to any of them. This is the difficulty with civil service targets - it doesn't mean you shouldn't have them, but you have to make sure they are smart and you have to listen to those voices within the civil service who will have been raising the alarm. The problem is the government has to be interested in real improvements which they are not!

    I'd like to see some heads roll in the Home Office too! Just think of the heartache and stress the Windrush victims have faced and the shame it has brought to all of us irresepective of our political colours! If you deport x number of illegal immigrants in a month, it is not beyond the wit of man to check the circumstances behind them - it would have picked up on this issue. But like I said, it would have been known, it was just about getting the numbers to make everybody look good!
  • shine166 said:

    seth plum said:

    Any sympathy expressed towards Rudd ought to be set alongside any one of the many stories we have heard recently from the Windrush generation.
    Those guys had their jobs, driving licences, health services and right to stay taken away. Some were detained, some refused travel, even deported.
    Amber Rudd resigning so what, she has got off lightly compared to what some of the Windrush generation went through.
    Absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from me beyond recognising she has been shafted by Theresa May.

    Amber Rudd was there to do Mays talking and May is there to take the brunt of Brexit.

    It will be Corbyn vs Bojo for PM.... labour will get in and blamed for the state of the UK during brexit and then we'll have the tories in charge again.
    Corbyn has been pro-Brexit for ages so I don't see he can argue much of a case. We could end up with Dianne Abbott as Home Secretary which could be the ultimate Car crash

    What a set of politicians we have at present!
    Makes no difference what his opinion is once we've gone !

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  • edited April 2018

    Amber Rudd is my MP. As a local MP she is brilliant. Absolutely tireless, and in the town every weekend without fail. She was hung out to dry by Theresa May, and it is shameful that fuck wits like Diane Abbot and the pro-Brexit, right wing of the Tory party were dancing on her grave all week.
    Politics in this country is in a shameful state. None of the parties are working for the national good, just their own narrow spiteful partisan politics.
    A pox on them all.


    I do agree with part of this - she has been very loyal to May here and has been hung out to dry. The policy and implementation started before her and would have been established and entrenched before her and she has tried to absorb the blame. But there is blame to be absorbed - a lot of it. innocent lives have been ruined!

    I think we have to take some of the blame as well - this was considered to be a vote winner and a difficult issue was simplified because the public wanted it. I want illegal immigrants caught and sent back, but I don't want the issue simplified and the pretence something is being done when it isn't. Which is even worse when innocent people are hit.
  • Chizz said:

    Right. Who's next?

    A qualification for the hard of thinking...

    Who is likely to be next to lose their Cabinet job?
  • Chizz said:

    Chizz said:

    Right. Who's next?

    A qualification for the hard of thinking...

    Who is likely to be next to lose their Cabinet job?
    Sajid Javid, obviously.
  • Amber Rudd is my MP. As a local MP she is brilliant. Absolutely tireless, and in the town every weekend without fail. She was hung out to dry by Theresa May, and it is shameful that fuck wits like Diane Abbot and the pro-Brexit, right wing of the Tory party were dancing on her grave all week.
    Politics in this country is in a shameful state. None of the parties are working for the national good, just their own narrow spiteful partisan politics.
    A pox on them all.


    I do agree with part of this - she has been very loyal to May here and has been hung out to dry. The policy and implementation started before her and would have been established and entrenched before her and she has tried to absorb the blame. But there is blame to be absorbed - a lot of it. innocent lives have been ruined!

    I think we have to take some of the blame as well - this was considered to be a vote winner and a difficult issue was simplified because the public wanted it. I want illegal immigrants caught and sent back, but I don't want the issue simplified and the pretence something is being done when it isn't. Which is even worse when innocent people are hit.
    Immigration is always discussed in a pretty nasty way and this was most definitely the case with Brexit. Immigrants as a whole tend to be spoken about in a disparaging manner whether illegal or not.

    Most countries have a history of scapegoating immigrants. The issue of illegal immigrants was unlikely to be dealt with in a sensitive way.
  • Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.
  • She needed to go, but has no doubt took the heat for Auntie T to an extent. I reckon there is more to come out as well.

    It's the culmination of the immigration rhetoric and UKIP over the past 10 years which lead us to Brexit. I don't blame the government for attempting to be strong on illegal immigrants, but as usual poorly implemented. When you think about it this has all come about because someone working in the home office decided whilst planning an office move to throw away what turned out to be very important papers. Did they not know of this 21st Century new phenomenon called scanning!

    Just about every government in my adult life has been found wanting, in the end to be replaced by the other main party, only for them to follow the same path of rubbish and to be found wanting themselves and so the cycle continues....... varying period and degrees but I don't see the future being any different tot he past.

    I thought Labour/Blair when they came in may have been different, but no, ultimately same old same old.

    I'm losing the will to live when it comes to politics in this country, we have a poor government and a poor opposition, I can't see it getting any better over the next 10 years which is even more worrying.

    We'll role along for the next couple of years with Labour digging out the conservatives and the conservatives digging out Labour around to the next election and the next hung government and the next bunch of no hopers running the country (Blue or Red). If it wasn't so important it'd be comparable to the CAFC saga of the last 4 years.
  • Leuth said:

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Mayor of London not good enough for ya?
    And he’s done diddly squat, awful Major the worst yet and I didn’t think I’d be saying that post Ken & BoJo
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  • Leuth said:

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Mayor of London not good enough for ya?
    Not a cabinet post is it?
    As you well know.

    Thank goodness we aren't talking about female party leaders or you'll dig up some other irrelevance.
  • Leuth said:

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Mayor of London not good enough for ya?
    Not a cabinet post is it?
    As you well know.

    Thank goodness we aren't talking about female party leaders or you'll dig up some other irrelevance.
    Plenty of BAME in the shadow cabinet. This isn't something to boast about, especially as Javid appears to be an insane Randian wonk
  • edited April 2018
    And, right on cue, there you go! ;-)
    Don't take this the wrong way, as it is said in jest, but is there a real chance, with your twisting and re-imagining, that you might disappear up your own arse?
  • Leuth said:

    Leuth said:

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Mayor of London not good enough for ya?
    Not a cabinet post is it?
    As you well know.

    Thank goodness we aren't talking about female party leaders or you'll dig up some other irrelevance.
    Plenty of BAME in the shadow cabinet. This isn't something to boast about, especially as Javid appears to be an insane Randian wonk
    Ah, the 'ideal man' argument. Hardly true, or relevant.
  • Don't take this the wrong way, as it is said in jest, but is there a real chance, with your twisting and re-imagining, that you might disappear up your own arse?

    Using Javid's appointment to dig at Labour not being progressive enough was the joke here, as I'm sure everyone understands
  • Leuth said:

    Don't take this the wrong way, as it is said in jest, but is there a real chance, with your twisting and re-imagining, that you might disappear up your own arse?

    Using Javid's appointment to dig at Labour not being progressive enough was the joke here, as I'm sure everyone understands
    Not a joke, but a valid comment.
    As even the dimmest of reactionaries would understand.
  • Leuth said:

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    Mayor of London not good enough for ya?
    No he's a complete and utter Khan !
  • edited April 2018

    Have to say it's amazing its taken this long to have someone of Pakistani descent secure such an important cabinet post.

    The son of a bus driver and a product of a regional northern post industrial town's state school.

    Even more astonishing is that it is not a Labour party appointment.

    It is not really astonishing. Sir Mancherjee Merwanjee Bhownagree was an MP for the Conservatives from 1895 to 1906. An Indian not a Pakistani; not least because Pakistan didn't exist back then of course. (There were two earlier MPs from ethnic minorities from now pretty much defunct political parties.) But it took the Labour Party another 92 years to get on the "score sheet". Now which is the reactionary party here?

    Edited to add. Green must be the new White. As recently as the 2015 GE, they had fewer ethnic minority candidates than even UKIP.
  • No, it's amazing.
  • Can’t see Javid making much of a difference. The ethnic vote is of no interest to them.
This discussion has been closed.

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