How do the Tories need to change?
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Phone auto correct - Williamson.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Gavin Wiliams?Rob7Lee said:
and there in lies the issue, as many people line them both up and fall to the side of the Tories as line them both up and fall to Labour. I'm with you though, but just don't get how, right now, anyone can vote Labour.Greenie said:And Tory deflection tactics works, look we're doing it now, the total mess the Tories have made of our country in the last 10 years, to the latest cock up in the list of many:- blatant incompetence and lies by May and Rudd over Windrush, and someone throws in the Abbot hand grenade and we all take a look and go off on a tangent.
Its like saying to a 20 year old 'look something shiny', and you've done them.
When all said and done, and when you line up the Labour Party against the useless, uncaring, lack of empathy for the UK population, fools in power at the moment, and include the faults of both parties, then their is no comparison, I dont understand how anyone can seriously vote Tory.
I think she's friggin useless but i'd take May over Corbyn, Hammond over McDonnel, almost anyone over Abbot, but would defo take Starmer over Davis. Thornberry v Johnson is a tough one, i'd probably risk it and go without a Foreign Secretary as both are useless. Angela Rayner might be Ok over Hinds but it's a close call, but I can't get that Catherine Tate nurse out of my head when I see her picture. I like Gavin Wiliams and he is streets ahead of Nia Griffith. Grayling always seem to talk sense but he does grate on me a bit.
I can see argument for both sides, but in my view it's anything but a clear cut choice.0 -
Here is a list http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stmi_b_b_o_r_g said:
There are loads of MPs of all persuasions who are against war in the Middle East.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
Breaks down like this.
139 Labour MPs rebelled against the government's line and supported the amendment.
15 Tory MPs also defied their leadership by voting against the government's policy.
All 53 Liberal Democrat MPs voted against the government - in line with their leadership.0 -
Last updated - 2003???Cordoban Addick said:
Here is a list http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stmi_b_b_o_r_g said:
There are loads of MPs of all persuasions who are against war in the Middle East.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
Breaks down like this.
139 Labour MPs rebelled against the government's line and supported the amendment.
15 Tory MPs also defied their leadership by voting against the government's policy.
All 53 Liberal Democrat MPs voted against the government - in line with their leadership.
I would've thought that the "wars in the Middle East" the op was referring to were a little more recent than that, like for example, Syria, there must surely be more of an equal balance across all parties on that, as there is with public opinion
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Go on then, I have started it you fill in the gaps.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Last updated - 2003???Cordoban Addick said:
Here is a list http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stmi_b_b_o_r_g said:
There are loads of MPs of all persuasions who are against war in the Middle East.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
Breaks down like this.
139 Labour MPs rebelled against the government's line and supported the amendment.
15 Tory MPs also defied their leadership by voting against the government's policy.
All 53 Liberal Democrat MPs voted against the government - in line with their leadership.
I would've thought that the "wars in the Middle East" the op was referring to were a little more recent than that, like for example, Syria, there must surely be more of an equal balance across all parties on that, as there is with public opinion1 -
Id rather principles than pandering to the publics demands.... as we know by now that the public are flkin clueless and too easily swayed by the newspaper they read.cafcfan said:
But therein lies his problem. There's a reason politicians shun principles.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
I'm sorry but the last, the very last thing a professional politician needs is "some actual principles". What a politician needs is the ability to think quickly, be fast on their feet, to change tack at a moment's notice and to act in the country's best interests according to what is actually happening right here, right now. Sticking rigidly to decades old concepts is the road to ruin.
Attributed to Macmillan when asked what could blow a Government off course we were treated to the ubiquitous phrase "events, dear boy, events". In the event of some events, Corbyn's weird principles would be about as useful as a chocolate teapot (or Karl Robinson's no plan B formation).1 -
Pretty disillusioned with both parties at the moment. I think both parties are failing the British people. They’re both simply not good enough, making laughable mistake after laughable mistake. I would never ever vote for this current labour but I’m also struggling to find fair reasons to vote Tory, I’m not one to waste a vote so would vote Tory based on their principals generally are in line with mine and current labours are the opposite, but the Tory’s along with the whole of British politics are a mess.
The only good thing may has done recently is appoint Sajid Javid as Home Secretary.2 -
They need to change their election propaganda.
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The next real polls will be interesting post Windrush, but it’s becoming clearer that Auntie T is in pole position and corbyn is losing his momentumThreadKiller said:
but what a choice, it’s like being forced to choose between merging with Millwall or Palace.
@Greenie Junior above sums it up.0 -
No way are the Tories under any circumstances going to go to the country until they have to. That’s a fact.5
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The Tory power stance makes me feel sick.0
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It just seems ridiculous to me. Like, actually hilarious.Super_Eddie_Youds said:The Tory power stance makes me feel sick.
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This is what happens when you spoil 'em @GreenieGreenie Junior said:I’m not one to waste a vote so would vote Tory based on their principals generally are in line with mine and current labours are the opposite
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HaHa. I dragged all three of 'em up to be their own men. I am pleased that they have strong minds, even though on certain things I disagree with them. Of course at the moment, due to his politics, he is out the will....... ;o)Leuth said:
This is what happens when you spoil 'em @GreenieGreenie Junior said:I’m not one to waste a vote so would vote Tory based on their principals generally are in line with mine and current labours are the opposite
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I'm afraid I just can't see the funny side yet, it truly baffles me.Leuth said:
It just seems ridiculous to me. Like, actually hilarious.Super_Eddie_Youds said:The Tory power stance makes me feel sick.
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Tory principles and ideology?
Are there any principles is there an ideology?
When I asked the Tory woman who knocked on my door she said she believed in 'small government'.
So in an interdependent world what does that mean? Everybody for themselves and otherwise rely on charities or 'private provider's if you can afford it.
Employment de regulated employees exploited, housing is a market rather than a necessity, government steer clear.
But perceived threats like immigrants or criminals should have government intervention.
Tory aspiration is to my mind:
Gated communities, private security, private schools, private health, goods delivered, uber from door to door, look after number one in a world of 'small government '.
If I am wrong then what do Tories stand for?4 -
I can't believe that the whole nation doesn't see it the same way the well balanced and well informed posters on here do.
Racist idiots who are against their own best interests (or the interests of the nation) clearly!0 -
May has today ordered a three line whip to stop Tory MPs voting to allow Windrush related correspondence to be seen by the select committee.0
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Extraordinary.shine166 said:
Id rather principles than pandering to the publics demands.... as we know by now that the public are flkin clueless and too easily swayed by the newspaper they read.cafcfan said:
But therein lies his problem. There's a reason politicians shun principles.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
I'm sorry but the last, the very last thing a professional politician needs is "some actual principles". What a politician needs is the ability to think quickly, be fast on their feet, to change tack at a moment's notice and to act in the country's best interests according to what is actually happening right here, right now. Sticking rigidly to decades old concepts is the road to ruin.
Attributed to Macmillan when asked what could blow a Government off course we were treated to the ubiquitous phrase "events, dear boy, events". In the event of some events, Corbyn's weird principles would be about as useful as a chocolate teapot (or Karl Robinson's no plan B formation).
History is littered with 'principled' leaders who ignored the people.
You might prefer that, most wouldn't.
Democracy. A nice election every 5 years to gauge public opinion with the occasional referendum suits me fine.0 -
Has she got something to hide then?MuttleyCAFC said:May has today ordered a three line whip to stop Tory MPs voting to allow Windrush related correspondence to be seen by the select committee.
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Are you seriously saying Labourites don't aspire to exactly the same list?seth plum said:Tory principles and ideology?
Tory aspiration is to my mind:
Gated communities, private security, private schools, private health, goods delivered, uber from door to door, look after number one in a world of 'small government '.
If I am wrong then what do Tories stand for?
Maybe even a few Liberal Democrats, but this is just a strange insight into your mind if you think it is only a Tory aspiration.
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Tend to agree. I firmly believe in the wisdom of crowds normally coming up with the best outcome. obviously, does depend on the quality and accuracy of the information that all receive!A-R-T-H-U-R said:
Extraordinary.shine166 said:
Id rather principles than pandering to the publics demands.... as we know by now that the public are flkin clueless and too easily swayed by the newspaper they read.cafcfan said:
But therein lies his problem. There's a reason politicians shun principles.satsuma27 said:At least Corbyn has some actual principles, you may not agree with them, but at least he has some, unlike nearly every other politician you can think of. He doesn't want useless wars in the Middle East all the time on the behest of Israel, and this is why they keep bringing up the anti Semitism meme. I'm not a socialist, and the left is eating itself at this moment, but I do admire his courage to stand up for what he believes in.
I'm sorry but the last, the very last thing a professional politician needs is "some actual principles". What a politician needs is the ability to think quickly, be fast on their feet, to change tack at a moment's notice and to act in the country's best interests according to what is actually happening right here, right now. Sticking rigidly to decades old concepts is the road to ruin.
Attributed to Macmillan when asked what could blow a Government off course we were treated to the ubiquitous phrase "events, dear boy, events". In the event of some events, Corbyn's weird principles would be about as useful as a chocolate teapot (or Karl Robinson's no plan B formation).
History is littered with 'principled' leaders who ignored the people.
You might prefer that, most wouldn't.
Democracy. A nice election every 5 years to gauge public opinion with the occasional referendum suits me fine.1 -
I suspect, even then, they will try to find a way to cling on.ShootersHillGuru said:No way are the Tories under any circumstances going to go to the country until they have to. That’s a fact.
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See people are still "blaming" Brexit on the "clueless" public, rather than it being people who voted in a way that you just don't agree with1
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three line whip for this probably means may knows its last chance saloon for her, although i wouldnt be surprised if it leaked if they do win the vote.MuttleyCAFC said:May has today ordered a three line whip to stop Tory MPs voting to allow Windrush related correspondence to be seen by the select committee.
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more its an example of exactly why we have MP's and vote for our MP rather than vote in a proportional system and have more "direct democracy" that the likes of russell brand were begging for.i_b_b_o_r_g said:See people are still "blaming" Brexit on the "clueless" public, rather than it being people who voted in a way that you just don't agree with
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Strange?A-R-T-H-U-R said:
Are you seriously saying Labourites don't aspire to exactly the same list?seth plum said:Tory principles and ideology?
Tory aspiration is to my mind:
Gated communities, private security, private schools, private health, goods delivered, uber from door to door, look after number one in a world of 'small government '.
If I am wrong then what do Tories stand for?
Maybe even a few Liberal Democrats, but this is just a strange insight into your mind if you think it is only a Tory aspiration.
Really?
To recognize we live in an interdependent world where collaboration and cooperation is not only desireable but necessary?
The Tory woman presented the small government concept to me as her aspiration.
I accept you think I am strange, but I think your reaction is stranger.
Perhaps you can enlighten me and explain what Tory ideology is.0 -
Corbyn once again spins around in a circle and wildly and vainly kicks out towards the ball and completely misses and falls over when presented with an open goal this pmq’s. Seems to be more and more of a weekly occurance the worse this Tory government gets.0
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I'd rather principled politicians on both sides. That way we can vote for the ones who most align with our views.1
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Don't know what he done this time but in part it's why his ratings are falling with the public. He may have been the saviour of Labour but he may actually be the demise to.kentaddick said:Corbyn once again spins around in a circle and wildly and vainly kicks out towards the ball and completely misses and falls over when presented with an open goal this pmq’s. Seems to be more and more of a weekly occurance the worse this Tory government gets.
'How do the Tories need to change' - Answer - very little right now, as despite being the worst government for some years and having issue after issue they somehow are holding their own or leading some polls and Auntie T seems to beating him hands down for popularity.
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