So we just hope there isn't another fire before we have dotted all the is I s and crossed all the T s then!
As we've seen in Camden, you don't need to wait for the outcome of an inquiry to pull down flammable cladding, this must be done, across the country, ASAP.
I think what was also interesting about Camden is that they said they specified fire resistant panels and have been found they are not! Thank heavens for a council of doers and not pontificators!
Camden are no different from any other authority, as they had no idea of the danger of the cladding on the blocks in their borough. It could just as easily been one of their blocks that went up, instead of the one in Kensington. Obviously they are doing full checks now, and taking the correct action, but only after a tragedy elsewhere http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40370993
Their contract with Rydon was signed back in 2006, so it's not as if this is a recent issue, or one that can be laid solely at the door of one party either.
A 'leading Hotel chain' is now saying they have issues with the cladding on three of their high rise buildings.
Turns out one of them is the Premier Inn in Maidenhead. I do hope the local MP is able to insist that this Company carry out the same rigorous tests that Councils and Housing Associations have been asked to do.
Reading the paper this lunchtime to find I managed two of the effected blocks in Camden before and after they were underwent the refurbishment that included the new cladding. My heart skipped a beat. At the time we were told to promote the improvements as providing better insulation without compromising safety.
A 'leading Hotel chain' is now saying they have issues with the cladding on three of their high rise buildings.
Turns out one of them is the Premier Inn in Maidenhead. I do hope the local MP is able to insist that this Company carry out the same rigorous tests that Councils and Housing Associations have been asked to do.
The people who use the hotels won't use them so they have to deal with urgently.
has the reason why the fridge exploded been explored as its what caused the fire?.
I'm sure it will be investigated, assuming there is anything left of the fridge.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
the cladding on the exterior of the building caused the fire to rise up the building killing 79 people, but the fridge started the fire, if i went and through a lit peice of rag at a building and it rose quickly it would be that was jailed for murder not the people that built the building, i genuinely don't know who the buck stops with, building control? as they would of had to certify the material used?
The issue is clearly that the fire should not have spread so quickly. The unaltered property was designed to conatin a fire on each floor for 1 hour - so the fire spreading so quickly externally is more of an issue than how the fire happened to start. We all know that fires will start from time to time. Now we have to find out why that happened. Everybody seems to be pointing at the cladding and it is hard to see what else it could be. So then the resulting questions and answers will point to the guilt. Were the buidling regs sufficiently strong - if no - why?, Were the companies installing the cladding cutting corners?, Were warnings about the dangers ignored or put to one side - and again if so why? Following these obvious lines are going to throw up people who need to give answers.
It is likely, I suspect, that the buck won't stop with one person. We should remember that nobody will have wanted what happened to happen, nobody is a murderer. But recklessness and negligence when it comes to safety could quite easily be deemed criminal. The questions need to be asked of minsiters who ignored warnings and Blair's government should be asked, why changes were made to health and safety in 2005 and why. I would have liked this expedited for the sake of the families involved, but it looks like we are going to have to wait for it.
I expect the outcome will be that the cause is attributed to a chain of events and failures that, in isolation, would not have resulted in a disaster but the accumulation of which led to the tragedy. If any one of maybe a dozen factors had not happened, neither would the fire as the chain would have been broken. Aside from supporting those affected in every possible way, the key now is to ensure that chain is broken permanently and cannot recur. It remains to be seen if that actually happens...
Great post Idle.
I refer to Idles recent post......arguably the most sensible and succinct post on the thread thus far.
Reading the paper this lunchtime to find I managed two of the effected blocks in Camden before and after they were underwent the refurbishment that included the new cladding. My heart skipped a beat. At the time we were told to promote the improvements as providing better insulation without compromising safety.
Blimey now they're decanting all 5 blocks.
I've always taken FRA's seriously but this just hammers home to me the responsibilities of my job.
Difficult to knock them for this decision in the current environment, but this does appear to be a serious overreaction. One of the blocks had a major fire in 2012 which gutted one flat and despite some scorching of the cladding the spread of flame was limited.
Building and cladding companies will be filing for liquidation all over the country. Local councils are taking expensive remedial action but where is the funding going to come from?
Building and cladding companies will be filing for liquidation all over the country. Local councils are taking expensive remedial action but where is the funding going to come from?
Insurance companies or taxes. We will all ultimately pay for this scandal.
Obviously nowhere near as much as the residents of the tower.
Difficult to knock them for this decision in the current environment, but this does appear to be a serious overreaction. One of the blocks had a major fire in 2012 which gutted one flat and despite some scorching of the cladding the spread of flame was limited.
It will be interesting to see how others react.
On the news a few minutes ago it was said there were a number of breaches of fire regs BESIDES the cladding. Problems with gas pipes, fire doors removed etc.
Amazing. These blocks would be risk assessed annually, so why are you picking up these issues now?
Surely a better option would be to turn off the gas supply until you can deal with the problem and re-fit the fire doors before you evacuate the whole building?
They've allowed residents back into one of the blocks already.
The Leader of Camden council quoted today as saying the panels supplied to them were not to the standard they had commissioned. If the supplier has deliberately substituted a cheaper, inferior product to the one set out in the contract I would expect some decent jail time coming their way in due course
Breach of contract for sure, but maybe difficult to prosecute for criminal negligence. I suppose it will be down to the HSE.
Straightforward Fraud Act offence if I tell you I will supply and fit £100,000 worth of product X and go out and knowingly fit £80,000 worth of inferior product Y. That's before considering any other regulatory offences around any misleading statements made to the customer or breaches of Construction Products Regs, etc.
But I ask you this the old woman who has been on sky moaning about sitting in a chair all night with her dog
Why the fuck hadn't your daughter with the gob on to this morning moaning at the councillor taken you to her home for the weekend or until it's sorted and put you up
If my mum was affected she'd be living with me until it was sorted not in a bloody Hotel ,
Yes the council and government have a responsibility but so do the families of those people
Also i notice that those who have been screaming and shouting about the failings of other MPs and party run councils also have issues in flats that have been under their guidance time for those who live in glass houses to stop throwing stones and accept it's a cross party problem that they have all caused and been complicit in
But I ask you this the old woman who has been on sky moaning about sitting in a chair all night with her dog
Why the fuck hadn't your daughter with the gob on to this morning moaning at the councillor taken you to her home for the weekend or until it's sorted and put you up
If my mum was affected she'd be living with me until it was sorted not in a bloody Hotel ,
Yes the council and government have a responsibility but so do the families of those people
Also i notice that those who have been screaming and shouting about the failings of other MPs and party run councils also have issues in flats that have been under their guidance time for those who live in glass houses to stop throwing stones and accept it's a cross party problem that they have all caused and been complicit in
has the reason why the fridge exploded been explored as its what caused the fire?.
I'm sure it will be investigated, assuming there is anything left of the fridge.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
the cladding on the exterior of the building caused the fire to rise up the building killing 79 people, but the fridge started the fire, if i went and through a lit peice of rag at a building and it rose quickly it would be that was jailed for murder not the people that built the building, i genuinely don't know who the buck stops with, building control? as they would of had to certify the material used?
The buck will be with them along with the people that approved the cladding to be installed. Let's also not forget to see if the cladding was installed correctly too.
has the reason why the fridge exploded been explored as its what caused the fire?.
I'm sure it will be investigated, assuming there is anything left of the fridge.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
the cladding on the exterior of the building caused the fire to rise up the building killing 79 people, but the fridge started the fire, if i went and through a lit peice of rag at a building and it rose quickly it would be that was jailed for murder not the people that built the building, i genuinely don't know who the buck stops with, building control? as they would of had to certify the material used?
The buck will be with them along with the people that approved the cladding to be installed. Let's also not forget to see if the cladding was installed correctly too.
Bit of a difference between deliberately lighting a rag and having an electrical appliance malfunction, which I am sure the fridge owner would not have wanted to happen even if it just meant having to replace his fridge and redecorate his kitchen.
The big tower block in Woolwich where the Lee Rigby flags are. That was done up a few years back and that looks like cladding. I dunno if that was a building deemed dangerous in light of Grenfell Tower.
There are old tower blocks which have been done and rendered with concrete to give it a modern look and if Grenfell had been like that then it is so likely that the death toll would have been very much lower and most people would still have a home. There some blocks which have been rendered on the Eltham Road in Lee Green and a block on Well Hall Road near the junction of Westmount Road.
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40370993
Their contract with Rydon was signed back in 2006, so it's not as if this is a recent issue, or one that can be laid solely at the door of one party either.
Turns out one of them is the Premier Inn in Maidenhead. I do hope the local MP is able to insist that this Company carry out the same rigorous tests that Councils and Housing Associations have been asked to do.
My heart skipped a beat. At the time we were told to promote the improvements as providing better insulation without compromising safety.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
It is likely, I suspect, that the buck won't stop with one person. We should remember that nobody will have wanted what happened to happen, nobody is a murderer. But recklessness and negligence when it comes to safety could quite easily be deemed criminal. The questions need to be asked of minsiters who ignored warnings and Blair's government should be asked, why changes were made to health and safety in 2005 and why. I would have liked this expedited for the sake of the families involved, but it looks like we are going to have to wait for it.
Hotpoint are asking owners with similar fridges to contact them
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148
I've always taken FRA's seriously but this just hammers home to me the responsibilities of my job.
Difficult to knock them for this decision in the current environment, but this does appear to be a serious overreaction. One of the blocks had a major fire in 2012 which gutted one flat and despite some scorching of the cladding the spread of flame was limited.
It will be interesting to see how others react.
Obviously nowhere near as much as the residents of the tower.
Surely a better option would be to turn off the gas supply until you can deal with the problem and re-fit the fire doors before you evacuate the whole building?
They've allowed residents back into one of the blocks already.
But I ask you this the old woman who has been on sky moaning about sitting in a chair all night with her dog
Why the fuck hadn't your daughter with the gob on to this morning moaning at the councillor taken you to her home for the weekend or until it's sorted and put you up
If my mum was affected she'd be living with me until it was sorted not in a bloody Hotel ,
Yes the council and government have a responsibility but so do the families of those people
Also i notice that those who have been screaming and shouting about the failings of other MPs and party run councils also have issues in flats that have been under their guidance time for those who live in glass houses to stop throwing stones and accept it's a cross party problem that they have all caused and been complicit in
The residents of the Camden estate have been using the Sports Centre which I exercise in as it's nearby
There are old tower blocks which have been done and rendered with concrete to give it a modern look and if Grenfell had been like that then it is so likely that the death toll would have been very much lower and most people would still have a home. There some blocks which have been rendered on the Eltham Road in Lee Green and a block on Well Hall Road near the junction of Westmount Road.