has the reason why the fridge exploded been explored as its what caused the fire?.
I'm sure it will be investigated, assuming there is anything left of the fridge.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
the cladding on the exterior of the building caused the fire to rise up the building killing 79 people, but the fridge started the fire, if i went and through a lit peice of rag at a building and it rose quickly it would be that was jailed for murder not the people that built the building, i genuinely don't know who the buck stops with, building control? as they would of had to certify the material used?
The buck will be with them along with the people that approved the cladding to be installed. Let's also not forget to see if the cladding was installed correctly too.
Bit of a difference between deliberately lighting a rag and having an electrical appliance malfunction, which I am sure the fridge owner would not have wanted to happen even if it just meant having to replace his fridge and redecorate his kitchen.
Yes but Building Control have the responsibility to make sure that everyone is safe if something like a fire happens, along with the people that do the work and authorise material used.
Lots of small things equal a major disaster as the Kings Cross & Bradford City fire taught us.
has the reason why the fridge exploded been explored as its what caused the fire?.
I'm sure it will be investigated, assuming there is anything left of the fridge.
But the fridge fire didn't cause the death of 79 souls.
the cladding on the exterior of the building caused the fire to rise up the building killing 79 people, but the fridge started the fire, if i went and through a lit peice of rag at a building and it rose quickly it would be that was jailed for murder not the people that built the building, i genuinely don't know who the buck stops with, building control? as they would of had to certify the material used?
The buck will be with them along with the people that approved the cladding to be installed. Let's also not forget to see if the cladding was installed correctly too.
Bit of a difference between deliberately lighting a rag and having an electrical appliance malfunction, which I am sure the fridge owner would not have wanted to happen even if it just meant having to replace his fridge and redecorate his kitchen.
Yes but Building Control have the responsibility to make sure that everyone is safe if something like a fire happens, along with the people that do the work and authorise material used.
Lots of small things equal a major disaster as the Kings Cross & Bradford City fire taught us.
Agreed. That's exactly what I and others have previously mentioned.
I dont believe anyone will be prosecuted because it will be difficult to pin down one particlular individual. Perhaps someone at Kensington and Chelsea might be but so many council buildings have failed the tests, it shows responsibility is wide spread. It appears fire saftey as a whole has been underfunded and all polititicans should be ashamed.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
bodies vs high heat, horrible as it sounds, also the figures on illegal tenants will be difficult because nobody is going to come out and say they were renting there flats illegally, off subject but did anyone used to watch cant pay we will take it away the amount of those properties that were sublet was astounding.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
What we've been told is that in the top 3-4 floors of Grenfell the temperature reached upwards of 1000 degrees. Nothing much but dust sadly. Theres still lots of bodies to be recovered,whole families unfortunately. Its a very grim task and the building is being shored by the brigade usar teams as the forensics guys work their way up. Speaking to one of the main guys up there,they are looking at about 4 months or so to complete the task of recovery and identifying.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
What we've been told is that in the top 3-4 floors of Grenfell the temperature reached upwards of 1000 degrees. Nothing much but dust sadly. Theres still lots of bodies to be recovered,whole families unfortunately. Its a very grim task and the building is being shored by the brigade usar teams as the forensics guys work their way up. Speaking to one of the main guys up there,they are looking at about 4 months or so to complete the task of recovery and identifying.
How on earth do they identify the bodies then? How do those tasked with this job get over it as it must be pretty horrific?
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
What we've been told is that in the top 3-4 floors of Grenfell the temperature reached upwards of 1000 degrees. Nothing much but dust sadly. Theres still lots of bodies to be recovered,whole families unfortunately. Its a very grim task and the building is being shored by the brigade usar teams as the forensics guys work their way up. Speaking to one of the main guys up there,they are looking at about 4 months or so to complete the task of recovery and identifying.
How on earth do they identify the bodies then? How do those tasked with this job get over it as it must be pretty horrific?
Basically,every bit of ash/debris etc is bagged up,taken away and put through a machine that can deter whats human and whats not and its sifted out. Some of the lads at my station are really struggling with what happened that night and what they saw. Its horrific and will continue to always be horrific.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The true number will never be known, with number being sublet as HMO`s . With many of those in these places being in the country illegally, also some flats will have had visitors that may be unknown as well. This will raise the question of how people get social housing who are not entitled to it and go on to misuse it, and put peoples lives at risk.
I'm unclear why we will never know the number of people that died? I'm assuming that all the bodies will be recovered and the main problem will be identifying them.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
What we've been told is that in the top 3-4 floors of Grenfell the temperature reached upwards of 1000 degrees. Nothing much but dust sadly. Theres still lots of bodies to be recovered,whole families unfortunately. Its a very grim task and the building is being shored by the brigade usar teams as the forensics guys work their way up. Speaking to one of the main guys up there,they are looking at about 4 months or so to complete the task of recovery and identifying.
How on earth do they identify the bodies then? How do those tasked with this job get over it as it must be pretty horrific?
Basically,every bit of ash/debris etc is bagged up,taken away and put through a machine that can deter whats human and whats not and its sifted out. Some of the lads at my station are really struggling with what happened that night and what they saw. Its horrific and will continue to always be horrific.
I hope people get the support they need with the stress and trauma from the job - from what I understand there's been a failure to do so in the past.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The rumour is people may have broken the tenancy rules by sub letting and if that's the case, it's possible that some tenants may not say who was there, or the tenant and sub tenants may have both perished.
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The rumour is people may have broken the tenancy rules by sub letting and if that's the case, it's possible that some tenants may not say who was there, or the tenant and sub tenants may have both perished.
It would be really surprising if that wasn't the case
Is there still no real idea of how many people died there? It would be awful if it's never known.
The rumour is people may have broken the tenancy rules by sub letting and if that's the case, it's possible that some tenants may not say who was there, or the tenant and sub tenants may have both perished.
More than just rumour. It's one of the reasons why the total number of deaths cannot be confirmed at the moment.
At least one of the families that has been rehoused weren't known to the Council and one of the missing has turned up in Pakistan.
We get more and more questions as time goes by. I don't know how we can expect proper answers when the post fire response has been so poor. I said ages ago that the government needed to draft in teams of civil servant volunteers who have the necessary skills - wouldn't be hard even to find those who can speak different languages. They could have been deployed on the ground and been given a caseload. How many as needed and erring on too may! It would then be their responsibility to co-ordinate with each other and support families on their caseload and update them daily. You would set up a procurement team in Whitehall who basically the caseworkers can get to pay for things like accomodation.
It confirms one of teh things I have always know about society and those in authroity - too many worthless sirs, but nobody who can take a challenge like this on by the balls - find the skeleton of a solution and fill it out.
The government has appointed a chairman of an expert panel - Sir Ken Knight - now who was responsible for saying the coroners reccomendations following the Camberwell fire of fitting spirinklers shouldn't be followed through due to economic reasons! I mean you couldn't make it up. This person should be answering police questions FFS!
We get more and more questions as time goes by. I don't know how we can expect proper answers when the post fire response has been so poor. I said ages ago that the government needed to draft in teams of civil servant volunteers who have the necessary skills - wouldn't be hard even to find those who can speak different languages. They could have been deployed on the ground and been given a caseload. How many as needed and erring on too may! It would then be their responsibility to co-ordinate with each other and support families on their caseload and update them daily. You would set up a procurement team in Whitehall who basically the caseworkers can get to pay for things like accomodation.
It confirms one of teh things I have always know about society and those in authroity - too many worthless sirs, but nobody who can take a challenge like this on by the balls - find the skeleton of a solution and fill it out.
The government has appointed a chairman of an expert panel - Sir Ken Knight - now who was responsible for saying the coroners reccomendations following the Camberwell fire of fitting spirinklers shouldn't be followed through due to economic reasons! I mean you couldn't make it up. This person should be answering police questions FFS!
If recommendations are made and then dismissed on grounds of cost then it's all pointless. Everything is done on the cheap.
It's all a f***ing shambles and I imagine nobody will take responsibility. I imagine the Queen won't skimp on her refurb.
If you strip posts out of public service so civil servants and local government workers are fewer and fewer each year then don't be surprised if emergency responses are chaotic. Aside from the particular problems at K&C Council all layers of government are doing more with less. And in the main doing surprisingly well. If you want first rate services they need first rate support.
If you strip posts out of public service so civil servants and local government workers are fewer and fewer each year then don't be surprised if emergency responses are chaotic. Aside from the particular problems at K&C Council all layers of government are doing more with less. And in the main doing surprisingly well. If you want first rate services they need first rate support.
You could temporarily second public servants from government departments in whitehall.
More galling is that those who obtained a social housing flat fraudulently and then sub-let and probably cost many lives because of the over crowded numbers they put into these places, will now turn up with the rent book claiming compensation for their loss and suffering. I see that the council has handed out £5000 to each of 99 households so far.
If you strip posts out of public service so civil servants and local government workers are fewer and fewer each year then don't be surprised if emergency responses are chaotic. Aside from the particular problems at K&C Council all layers of government are doing more with less. And in the main doing surprisingly well. If you want first rate services they need first rate support.
You could temporarily second public servants from government departments in whitehall.
If you strip posts out of public service so civil servants and local government workers are fewer and fewer each year then don't be surprised if emergency responses are chaotic. Aside from the particular problems at K&C Council all layers of government are doing more with less. And in the main doing surprisingly well. If you want first rate services they need first rate support.
What happened in the 80's and 90's was that services and policies built up over the decades managed to hold itself together for a good few years before the cracks started to show. A lot of the staff put in additional hours and corner cutting is not noticeable in the short term.
But the current government are cutting into areas that even Margaret Thatcher knew not to and they are cutting from a lower base so things will get out of hand quicker. I have deliberately stayed off the Latimer Road thread but government actions/in-actions have cost many people their lives, but we don't notice as they are not all in the same place at the same time.
Many of the services are invisible unless you need to use them but I always think the condition of roads is a good barometer, we often see the same roads every day and witness the deterioration in time scales that make sense.
Under resourced public sector? Surely not. We're all down the pub on Fridays from noon.
Working 80 hour weeks in an extremely pressurised environment at the moment. Senior Managers expecting data and facts immediately, wanting to know why timescales are so long on responding to residents queries (I could work 24/7 on them alone and still not clear them up in three weeks), currently have six "This is your top priority", yet still no acknowledgement to my five years of requesting the team be resourced properly. And all in the name of 'efficiency' and desire to be the 'top performers'.
I'm doing it because it matters to me despite being lucky enough to be in a position where I could tell them "I told you so" and telling them to stick it.
Building and cladding companies will be filing for liquidation all over the country. Local councils are taking expensive remedial action but where is the funding going to come from?
I'm all for overseas aid but sometimes charity begins at home so I'd slash the overseas aid budget and pay for all repairs etc directly from central Government so the works can be done immediately without delay prevaricating who pays for what and when.
Comments
Lots of small things equal a major disaster as the Kings Cross & Bradford City fire taught us.
I dont believe anyone will be prosecuted because it will be difficult to pin down one particlular individual. Perhaps someone at Kensington and Chelsea might be but so many council buildings have failed the tests, it shows responsibility is wide spread. It appears fire saftey as a whole has been underfunded and all polititicans should be ashamed.
It would be interesting to see some figures on how many properties are illegally sublet.
How do those tasked with this job get over it as it must be pretty horrific?
At least one of the families that has been rehoused weren't known to the Council and one of the missing has turned up in Pakistan.
It confirms one of teh things I have always know about society and those in authroity - too many worthless sirs, but nobody who can take a challenge like this on by the balls - find the skeleton of a solution and fill it out.
The government has appointed a chairman of an expert panel - Sir Ken Knight - now who was responsible for saying the coroners reccomendations following the Camberwell fire of fitting spirinklers shouldn't be followed through due to economic reasons! I mean you couldn't make it up. This person should be answering police questions FFS!
It's all a f***ing shambles and I imagine nobody will take responsibility. I imagine the Queen won't skimp on her refurb.
It's all a f***ing shambles and I imagine nobody will take responsibility. I imagine the Queen won't skimp on her refurb.
I wouldn't think the Houses of Parliament multi billion refurb will be using that cladding either.
If you want first rate services they need first rate support.
What happened in the 80's and 90's was that services and policies built up over the decades managed to hold itself together for a good few years before the cracks started to show. A lot of the staff put in additional hours and corner cutting is not noticeable in the short term.
But the current government are cutting into areas that even Margaret Thatcher knew not to and they are cutting from a lower base so things will get out of hand quicker. I have deliberately stayed off the Latimer Road thread but government actions/in-actions have cost many people their lives, but we don't notice as they are not all in the same place at the same time.
Many of the services are invisible unless you need to use them but I always think the condition of roads is a good barometer, we often see the same roads every day and witness the deterioration in time scales that make sense.
Working 80 hour weeks in an extremely pressurised environment at the moment. Senior Managers expecting data and facts immediately, wanting to know why timescales are so long on responding to residents queries (I could work 24/7 on them alone and still not clear them up in three weeks), currently have six "This is your top priority", yet still no acknowledgement to my five years of requesting the team be resourced properly. And all in the name of 'efficiency' and desire to be the 'top performers'.
I'm doing it because it matters to me despite being lucky enough to be in a position where I could tell them "I told you so" and telling them to stick it.
Not a single word of thanks either.