Multiple sources listed above due to consensus being needed in the meeja for it to be considered to be true. One from the fantastic BBC who we all know do a tremendous job in spending license fees and the other the Guardian, the bastion of truth and unbiased reporting.
Multiple sources listed above due to consensus being needed in the meeja for it to be considered to be true. One from the fantastic BBC who we all know do a tremedous job in spending license fees and the other the Guardian, the bastion of truth and unbiased reporting.
Just asked that when you say things cite your sources.
Interesting comments from @alan dugdale and @Big_Bad_World . Dunno what clever political points you are trying to make on the back of thirteen dead, but ten out of ten for crass response.
Look, I didn't want to add to anything I said earlier because I don't want to turn this thread into a needless debate after a horrific incident, but I feel like I need to defend myself and try and make certain people understand the point I was trying to get across.
When fucking terrible shit like this happens, it is quite normal in the immediate aftermath that across social media and the news platforms it is reported that there are often 'multiple gunmen' or 'shots have been fired' or 'a bomb has gone off at another location'. Fortunately most of the time this turns out to be incorrect and is just misinformation that comes out from the panic and chaos that these events cause.
I personally believe it would be more appropriate that people waited until they heard from a valid news source like the police's twitter or at the very least it was more than just speculation before they started posting stuff like 'two gunmen holed up in a Turkish restaurant' - this just adds to the false narrative and is doing what the wanker terrorists want us to do, which is to panic and be scared.
So no, it's fuck all to do with pointless point scoring over which fucking paper you read.
Having a pop at the way people pay their respects in the aftermath of such a horrendous act is bang out of order.
Not having a pop at the way people pay their respects. Having a pop at the fact that this does nothing and serves little to no purpose other than to massage someone's ego.
I'm not sure it's meant to solve the terrorist problems around the world - people do it to pay respect and show unity from what I see.
Certainly does no harm and if it gives even a modicum of comfort to anyone then I don't see why the act needs to be be dug out.
Look, I didn't want to add to anything I said earlier because I don't want to turn this thread into a needless debate after a horrific incident, but I feel like I need to defend myself and try and make certain people understand the point I was trying to get across.
When fucking terrible shit like this happens, it is quite normal in the immediate aftermath that across social media and the news platforms it is reported that there are often 'multiple gunmen' or 'shots have been fired' or 'a bomb has gone off at another location'. Fortunately most of the time this turns out to be incorrect and is just misinformation that comes out from the panic and chaos that these events cause.
I personally believe it would be more appropriate that people waited until they heard from a valid news source like the police's twitter or at the very least it was more than just speculation before they started posting stuff like 'two gunmen holed up in a Turkish restaurant' - this just adds to the false narrative and is doing what the wanker terrorists want us to do, which is to panic and be scared.
So no, it's fuck all to do with pointless point scoring over which fucking paper you read.
My point is more aimed at politicians. What do they do ? Arrange a concert ? Condemn the atrocity ? Say, "it won't change us ? Really ? What action is being taken here and across Europe ? People on here make me laugh. There's more outrage against the US president than against attacks on our own people. Sorry if I'm not pc enough.
My point is more aimed at politicians. What do they do ? Arrange a concert ? Condemn the atrocity ? Say, "it won't change us ? Really ? What action is being taken here and across Europe ? People on here make me laugh. There's more outrage against the US president than against attacks on our own people. Sorry if I'm not pc enough.
And I'm sure you were equally outraged by the terrorist attack in the US over the weekend..
Behind the scenes we don't know whats going on to deter these inhumane acts, hopefully a lot obviously.
How do you stop these van attacks? You cant say to a Muslim you cant have this because you look ''dodgy''. Put bollards everywhere to stop cars/vans in the places with a potential risk factor?
Air strikes killed the public leader not long ago but it seems to me it has that Hydra vibe '' cut one head off and three more appear" Sadly, I think this is in for the long haul and whats even more sad is that it will become the norm.
It sounds Cliché but as human beings, we all need to stick together against scum like this.
Lastly, the people on there phones recording the WHOLE aftermath need to look at themselves, take the picture & video momentarily then put your phone down and help the people in front of you!
My point is more aimed at politicians. What do they do ? Arrange a concert ? Condemn the atrocity ? Say, "it won't change us ? Really ? What action is being taken here and across Europe ? People on here make me laugh. There's more outrage against the US president than against attacks on our own people. Sorry if I'm not pc enough.
And I'm sure you were equally outraged by the terrorist attack in the US over the weekend..
Why that inference at the end SD? Both absolutely shocking examples of humanity letting itself down.
Air strikes killed the public leader not long ago but it seems to me it has that Hydra vibe '' cut one head off and three more appear" Sadly, I think this is in for the long haul and whats even more sad is that it will become the norm.
I think sadly you're right. Can't see an end to this, just a continuation of people becoming more extreme on the left & the right, more radicalisation, more hate, more arguing, more violence.
What's wrong with just keeping your head down and enjoying your life with family & friends?
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
My point is more aimed at politicians. What do they do ? Arrange a concert ? Condemn the atrocity ? Say, "it won't change us ? Really ? What action is being taken here and across Europe ? People on here make me laugh. There's more outrage against the US president than against attacks on our own people. Sorry if I'm not pc enough.
And I'm sure you were equally outraged by the terrorist attack in the US over the weekend..
RIP to those who lost their lives in this villainous attack, and best wishes to those who have to live with the consequences: bereaved, injured, emergency services and innocent bystanders. On the subject of bystanders, I'm not going to be drawn into the regular kicking that some of them get on here for filming and photographing events. We live in a society where for many of the population photographic devices are absolutely intrinsic to their way of life. Many share everything online from special family moments to the most humdrum everyday stuff that, frankly, no-one else could possibly care about. We shouldn't be shocked, surprised or condemning that they also share what is probably (hopefully) the most dramatic and horrifying event they will ever witness. These are truly awful incidents and it's may well be that those who bear witness are acting under considerable stress. As a result they do what they always do: film and photograph - is that really worthy of condemnation?
People have said that it's heartless to film a dying person and not help. It is a very strong argument. But perhaps these people haven't got a clue how they could help anyway and there's always plenty of other people around. The nature of these events is that they are always in crowded areas - that's the point of them. My experience of the most minor public h&s incidents is that in a very short space of time a crowd gathers. As someone who (and I suspect is in the majority) knows next to nothing of first aid, aren't I better off giving people more knowledgeable than me the space to do what they need to?
Also, there may actually be something useful that can be achieved by filming. It provides a record of what happened that may aide the security services. If you're starting from that perspective, it's no good editing out what you shoot because someone may find it distasteful, you're better to capture everything.
Some have said that these films shouldn't be posted on social media. Again, they are probably right, but how much of the 'problem' is down to the posters? Most people have a relatively small circle of friends, perhaps a few hundred. The posters themselves aren't directly responsible for the total number of people who view them. It is the countless people who re-tweet and re-post that make these things go viral. Presumably the people who do so feel that there is a genuine public interest in them being seen. And what of you the viewer of these films? What makes you blameless for your role in this transaction whilst those that supply you are deemed guilty? You don't have to click the play button. You don't have to view the photos and you don't have to read the accompanying text. If the filmmakers are guilty of anything, then aren't you too? Some people have questioned the motives of people who post such incidents. The assumption being that they are self-aggrandizing. But hey, who are we to go psychoanalysing people immediately following a traumatic experience.
I don't want to make out that the smartphone set are all paragons of virtue, but they aren't all heartless villains either. They are just normal human beings doing something ordinary in an extraordinary situation. Filming a terrorist incident does not make you a bad person. Planning, undertaking or aiding one does. Those are the people who should be condemned this morning, not those that had their iPhones out.
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
The security services are interested in any film of the event but perhaps instead of just filming someone dying, film everyone around?
As i work at a local tourist hotspot in the morning, we have made ALL of our staff first aiders. It cost a few bob but IF anything happens at least we can do our bit.
The security services are interested in any film of the event but perhaps instead of just filming someone dying, film everyone around?
As i work at a local tourist hotspot in the morning, we have made ALL of our staff first aiders. It cost a few bob but IF anything happens at least we can do our bit.
Good man, that is what almost all workplaces should be doing.
I was 50/50 to be going there today. Instead we went to a zoo near Narbonne because I couldn't be arsed with the 3 hour drive from where we are staying. We would have been there at just the wrong time.
Can't see me going there now which is a pain in the arse! Not worth risking my family though
Fuck you terrorists. Whatever your cause it doesn't involve families going about their lives in Europe.
I was 50/50 to be going there today. Instead we went to a zoo near Narbonne because I couldn't be arsed with the 3 hour drive from where we are staying. We would have been there at just the wrong time.
Can't see me going there now which is a pain in the arse! Not worth risking my family though
Fuck you terrorists. Whatever your cause it doesn't involve families going about their lives in Europe.
Are you anywhere near Gruissan?
I was yesterday. Staying in St Laurent de Cerdans for another week so about 80 miles away. Weather is bloody great
RIP to those who lost their lives in this villainous attack, and best wishes to those who have to live with the consequences: bereaved, injured, emergency services and innocent bystanders. On the subject of bystanders, I'm not going to be drawn into the regular kicking that some of them get on here for filming and photographing events. We live in a society where for many of the population photographic devices are absolutely intrinsic to their way of life. Many share everything online from special family moments to the most humdrum everyday stuff that, frankly, no-one else could possibly care about. We shouldn't be shocked, surprised or condemning that they also share what is probably (hopefully) the most dramatic and horrifying event they will ever witness. These are truly awful incidents and it's may well be that those who bear witness are acting under considerable stress. As a result they do what they always do: film and photograph - is that really worthy of condemnation?
People have said that it's heartless to film a dying person and not help. It is a very strong argument. But perhaps these people haven't got a clue how they could help anyway and there's always plenty of other people around. The nature of these events is that they are always in crowded areas - that's the point of them. My experience of the most minor public h&s incidents is that in a very short space of time a crowd gathers. As someone who (and I suspect is in the majority) knows next to nothing of first aid, aren't I better off giving people more knowledgeable than me the space to do what they need to?
Also, there may actually be something useful that can be achieved by filming. It provides a record of what happened that may aide the security services. If you're starting from that perspective, it's no good editing out what you shoot because someone may find it distasteful, you're better to capture everything.
Some have said that these films shouldn't be posted on social media. Again, they are probably right, but how much of the 'problem' is down to the posters? Most people have a relatively small circle of friends, perhaps a few hundred. The posters themselves aren't directly responsible for the total number of people who view them. It is the countless people who re-tweet and re-post that make these things go viral. Presumably the people who do so feel that there is a genuine public interest in them being seen. And what of you the viewer of these films? What makes you blameless for your role in this transaction whilst those that supply you are deemed guilty? You don't have to click the play button. You don't have to view the photos and you don't have to read the accompanying text. If the filmmakers are guilty of anything, then aren't you too? Some people have questioned the motives of people who post such incidents. The assumption being that they are self-aggrandizing. But hey, who are we to go psychoanalysing people immediately following a traumatic experience.
I don't want to make out that the smartphone set are all paragons of virtue, but they aren't all heartless villains either. They are just normal human beings doing something ordinary in an extraordinary situation. Filming a terrorist incident does not make you a bad person. Planning, undertaking or aiding one does. Those are the people who should be condemned this morning, not those that had their iPhones out.
I can't understand people that film the aftermath of a terrorist event for their own entertainment and then post it on social media - it's voyeuristic and unpleasant. If you can't help then get out of the fucking way.
As a society we seem to be losing a sense of dignity.
Tragic events for Spain and all of Europe - pointless waste of life in the name of what exactly?
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
Fuck slippery slope.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
Wake up SD. We are watched, listened to, read and followed hundreds of times a day.
If the admen know what you've been doing on line and target you as part of their marketing, then the security services can as well. They just target a different profile.
Wake up SD. We are watched, listened to, read and followed hundreds of times a day.
If the admen know what you've been doing on line and target you as part of their marketing, then the security services can as well. They just target a different profile.
Not refuting that at all but that's different to what we're talking about.
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40971004
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/aug/18/barcelona-cambrils-terror-attack-suspects-killed-latest-updates
Multiple sources listed above due to consensus being needed in the meeja for it to be considered to be true. One from the fantastic BBC who we all know do a tremendous job in spending license fees and the other the Guardian, the bastion of truth and unbiased reporting.
[post edited by moderator]
[post edited by moderator]
There can't be much faux-outrage to these events compared to a random celebrity dying. World of difference.
Look, I didn't want to add to anything I said earlier because I don't want to turn this thread into a needless debate after a horrific incident, but I feel like I need to defend myself and try and make certain people understand the point I was trying to get across.
When fucking terrible shit like this happens, it is quite normal in the immediate aftermath that across social media and the news platforms it is reported that there are often 'multiple gunmen' or 'shots have been fired' or 'a bomb has gone off at another location'. Fortunately most of the time this turns out to be incorrect and is just misinformation that comes out from the panic and chaos that these events cause.
I personally believe it would be more appropriate that people waited until they heard from a valid news source like the police's twitter or at the very least it was more than just speculation before they started posting stuff like 'two gunmen holed up in a Turkish restaurant' - this just adds to the false narrative and is doing what the wanker terrorists want us to do, which is to panic and be scared.
So no, it's fuck all to do with pointless point scoring over which fucking paper you read.
Certainly does no harm and if it gives even a modicum of comfort to anyone then I don't see why the act needs to be be dug out.
What action is being taken here and across Europe ?
People on here make me laugh. There's more outrage against the US president than against attacks on our own people.
Sorry if I'm not pc enough.
How do you stop these van attacks? You cant say to a Muslim you cant have this because you look ''dodgy''. Put bollards everywhere to stop cars/vans in the places with a potential risk factor?
Air strikes killed the public leader not long ago but it seems to me it has that Hydra vibe '' cut one head off and three more appear" Sadly, I think this is in for the long haul and whats even more sad is that it will become the norm.
It sounds Cliché but as human beings, we all need to stick together against scum like this.
Lastly, the people on there phones recording the WHOLE aftermath need to look at themselves, take the picture & video momentarily then put your phone down and help the people in front of you!
What's wrong with just keeping your head down and enjoying your life with family & friends?
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
People have said that it's heartless to film a dying person and not help. It is a very strong argument. But perhaps these people haven't got a clue how they could help anyway and there's always plenty of other people around. The nature of these events is that they are always in crowded areas - that's the point of them. My experience of the most minor public h&s incidents is that in a very short space of time a crowd gathers. As someone who (and I suspect is in the majority) knows next to nothing of first aid, aren't I better off giving people more knowledgeable than me the space to do what they need to?
Also, there may actually be something useful that can be achieved by filming. It provides a record of what happened that may aide the security services. If you're starting from that perspective, it's no good editing out what you shoot because someone may find it distasteful, you're better to capture everything.
Some have said that these films shouldn't be posted on social media. Again, they are probably right, but how much of the 'problem' is down to the posters? Most people have a relatively small circle of friends, perhaps a few hundred. The posters themselves aren't directly responsible for the total number of people who view them. It is the countless people who re-tweet and re-post that make these things go viral. Presumably the people who do so feel that there is a genuine public interest in them being seen. And what of you the viewer of these films? What makes you blameless for your role in this transaction whilst those that supply you are deemed guilty? You don't have to click the play button. You don't have to view the photos and you don't have to read the accompanying text. If the filmmakers are guilty of anything, then aren't you too? Some people have questioned the motives of people who post such incidents. The assumption being that they are self-aggrandizing. But hey, who are we to go psychoanalysing people immediately following a traumatic experience.
I don't want to make out that the smartphone set are all paragons of virtue, but they aren't all heartless villains either. They are just normal human beings doing something ordinary in an extraordinary situation. Filming a terrorist incident does not make you a bad person. Planning, undertaking or aiding one does. Those are the people who should be condemned this morning, not those that had their iPhones out.
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
As i work at a local tourist hotspot in the morning, we have made ALL of our staff first aiders. It cost a few bob but IF anything happens at least we can do our bit.
As a society we seem to be losing a sense of dignity.
Tragic events for Spain and all of Europe - pointless waste of life in the name of what exactly?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
If the admen know what you've been doing on line and target you as part of their marketing, then the security services can as well. They just target a different profile.