RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
Fuck slippery slope.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
Who said anything about the removal of all civil liberties? Or being locked up for a thought crime? The only civil liberty we are talking about is the right to not have phones calls and internet activity monitored at will by the security services.
The driver of this van apparently posted comments on social media a few days ago saying he would like to kill all non believers. And I bet that was not his only post expressing similar views.
I don't believe for a second it is not feasible. My internet activity is already automatically tracked and I am constantly getting adverts based on key words I have used.
Civil Liberty defenders are still winning the argument but every attack like this moves us closer to the point when governments in the free world will be forced towards mass automated surveillance.
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
Fuck slippery slope.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
Who said anything about the removal of all civil liberties? Or being locked up for a thought crime? The only civil liberty we are talking about is the right to not have phones calls and internet activity monitored at will by the security services.
The driver of this van apparently posted comments on social media a few days ago saying he would like to kill all non believers. And I bet that was not his only post expressing similar views.
I don't believe for a second it is not feasible. My internet activity is already automatically tracked and I am constantly getting adverts based on key words I have used.
Civil Liberty defenders are still winning the argument but every attack like this moves us closer to the point when governments in the free world will be forced towards mass automated surveillance.
He posted his plans/ beliefs on a public facing platform and still didn't get caught? Hard to imagine how increasing the size of the haystack will help the authorities find the needles.
We're largely already being monitored illegally to some degree. We should be fighting that, not encouraging more of it. A rough count shows that around 65 people have died in Europe in the last 12 months at the hands of terrorists. It's shocking and scary, but still a tiny percentage. More people died in car crashes in the time it took me to write this message, but I don't often read about calls to limit car speeds or give the authorities access to our driving data.
RIP to those who lost their lives in this villainous attack, and best wishes to those who have to live with the consequences: bereaved, injured, emergency services and innocent bystanders. On the subject of bystanders, I'm not going to be drawn into the regular kicking that some of them get on here for filming and photographing events. We live in a society where for many of the population photographic devices are absolutely intrinsic to their way of life. Many share everything online from special family moments to the most humdrum everyday stuff that, frankly, no-one else could possibly care about. We shouldn't be shocked, surprised or condemning that they also share what is probably (hopefully) the most dramatic and horrifying event they will ever witness. These are truly awful incidents and it's may well be that those who bear witness are acting under considerable stress. As a result they do what they always do: film and photograph - is that really worthy of condemnation?
People have said that it's heartless to film a dying person and not help. It is a very strong argument. But perhaps these people haven't got a clue how they could help anyway and there's always plenty of other people around. The nature of these events is that they are always in crowded areas - that's the point of them. My experience of the most minor public h&s incidents is that in a very short space of time a crowd gathers. As someone who (and I suspect is in the majority) knows next to nothing of first aid, aren't I better off giving people more knowledgeable than me the space to do what they need to?
Also, there may actually be something useful that can be achieved by filming. It provides a record of what happened that may aide the security services. If you're starting from that perspective, it's no good editing out what you shoot because someone may find it distasteful, you're better to capture everything.
Some have said that these films shouldn't be posted on social media. Again, they are probably right, but how much of the 'problem' is down to the posters? Most people have a relatively small circle of friends, perhaps a few hundred. The posters themselves aren't directly responsible for the total number of people who view them. It is the countless people who re-tweet and re-post that make these things go viral. Presumably the people who do so feel that there is a genuine public interest in them being seen. And what of you the viewer of these films? What makes you blameless for your role in this transaction whilst those that supply you are deemed guilty? You don't have to click the play button. You don't have to view the photos and you don't have to read the accompanying text. If the filmmakers are guilty of anything, then aren't you too? Some people have questioned the motives of people who post such incidents. The assumption being that they are self-aggrandizing. But hey, who are we to go psychoanalysing people immediately following a traumatic experience.
I don't want to make out that the smartphone set are all paragons of virtue, but they aren't all heartless villains either. They are just normal human beings doing something ordinary in an extraordinary situation. Filming a terrorist incident does not make you a bad person. Planning, undertaking or aiding one does. Those are the people who should be condemned this morning, not those that had their iPhones out.
I agree somewhat but imagine if the last image you saw as you died was an iPhone camera lens staring at you. Wondering where it would be put, if your loved ones might end up seeing you looking like that.
It's the indignity for the individual being filmed that's the issue.
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
Fuck slippery slope.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
Who said anything about the removal of all civil liberties? Or being locked up for a thought crime? The only civil liberty we are talking about is the right to not have phones calls and internet activity monitored at will by the security services.
The driver of this van apparently posted comments on social media a few days ago saying he would like to kill all non believers. And I bet that was not his only post expressing similar views.
I don't believe for a second it is not feasible. My internet activity is already automatically tracked and I am constantly getting adverts based on key words I have used.
Civil Liberty defenders are still winning the argument but every attack like this moves us closer to the point when governments in the free world will be forced towards mass automated surveillance.
He posted his plans/ beliefs on a public facing platform and still didn't get caught? Hard to imagine how increasing the size of the haystack will help the authorities find the needles.
We're largely already being monitored illegally to some degree. We should be fighting that, not encouraging more of it. A rough count shows that around 65 people have died in Europe in the last 12 months at the hands of terrorists. It's shocking and scary, but still a tiny percentage. More people died in car crashes in the time it took me to write this message, but I don't often read about calls to limit car speeds or give the authorities access to our driving data.
How many trillions have been spent in Europe over the last 30 years improving car safety and how many new laws have been introduced limiting who can drive, how we drive, and what safety features a car must have before it can be legally taken onto a public road? There are still people who think the requirement to wear seat belts is a restriction of their civil liberties! So yes, more people died in road accidents in the last two minutes. But, compared to 30 years ago, if you take into account the increased traffic volume, significantly less people have died on the roads in the last two minutes precisely due to the introduction of new laws, many of which essentially restrict people's right to behave as they wish on public roads.
RIP the victims. Out in Spain at the moment,not near Barcelona.
As many have said, there is next to nothing you can do when part of the human race has a F***** up ideaology like this.
The day is coming when every single internet and telephone activitity in the civilised world has to be monitored by software. The Global tech companies must be told in no uncertain terms they must pay for and develop the means for that to happen.
There are certain civil liberties which are no longer viable in the fight against this global evil ideology.
Absolutely this. If you have nothing to hide, what is there to fear?
This action would wipe out the ability to use the internet for so many disgusting crimes and prevent millions of innocent deaths.
I have recently seen a chalkboard sign picture that simply reads.
"Why only Rest In Peace? Why not Live In Peace?"
That is truly what I wish for the world.
Why can't we all be allowed to just get our heads down and live safely and peacefully with friends and family.
It's so disgusting and worrying as we look at the future of this planet.
Removal of civil liberties is a very slippery slope. Where does it stop, should we be watched at all times - if you have nothing to hide, why not?
Mass collection of information on citizens can and will be used against them, either being sold to the highest bidder or by being hacked.
All restricting these liberties does is reduce our freedoms. Something these organisations would be very happy to achieve.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it is this.
Fuck slippery slope.
The removal of all civil liberties is incredibly dangerous and wrong. What happens when you are deemed to be a potential future risk? You're just locked up for...wait for it...wait for it...thought crime?
Also, because of encrypted applications, you will never be able to catch all terrorists simply through cybersecurity, and I say this as someone who has worked in cybersecurity. First off, it's entirely unfeasible. There is no "everyone is now under 24/7 surveillance" button. To properly combat this you need human intel. You need community integration. You need economic opportunities. And for a very select few, harsh punishment. But the operative words being select few. I know this isn't sexy.
Who said anything about the removal of all civil liberties? Or being locked up for a thought crime? The only civil liberty we are talking about is the right to not have phones calls and internet activity monitored at will by the security services.
The driver of this van apparently posted comments on social media a few days ago saying he would like to kill all non believers. And I bet that was not his only post expressing similar views.
I don't believe for a second it is not feasible. My internet activity is already automatically tracked and I am constantly getting adverts based on key words I have used.
Civil Liberty defenders are still winning the argument but every attack like this moves us closer to the point when governments in the free world will be forced towards mass automated surveillance.
He posted his plans/ beliefs on a public facing platform and still didn't get caught? Hard to imagine how increasing the size of the haystack will help the authorities find the needles.
We're largely already being monitored illegally to some degree. We should be fighting that, not encouraging more of it. A rough count shows that around 65 people have died in Europe in the last 12 months at the hands of terrorists. It's shocking and scary, but still a tiny percentage. More people died in car crashes in the time it took me to write this message, but I don't often read about calls to limit car speeds or give the authorities access to our driving data.
How many trillions have been spent in Europe over the last 30 years improving car safety and how many new laws have been introduced limiting who can drive, how we drive, and what safety features a car must have before it can be legally taken onto a public road? There are still people who think the requirement to wear seat belts is a restriction of their civil liberties! So yes, more people died in road accidents in the last two minutes. But, compared to 30 years ago, if you take into account the increased traffic volume, significantly less people have died on the roads in the last two minutes precisely due to the introduction of new laws, many of which essentially restrict people's right to behave as they wish on public roads.
Some of that's fair. But we could have our every move tracked (technically every move already is) therefore speeding could be almost entirely wiped out. Are you up for that?
I'm off to Cambrils in October for a golf holiday. Ironically, We were considering Turkey but some of the lads including me were worried about the terrorist threat! I'm with whoever said above that it's now likely to be about as safe a place as we could go to!
Condolences to all those affected. Shit crazy world.
Drove into Barcelona this morning. All roads out are subject to delay. Police full on searching every vehicle. Queues horrendous, but travelling in rather than out, not affected. City seems pretty calm. Just back from Barca tour and at the Betis game Sunday #fuckemsaysrobboonthewing
Never mind these bastards, how Barcelona FC can charge €35 for a pair of kids shorts and €18 for socks worried me more
Wake up SD. We are watched, listened to, read and followed hundreds of times a day.
If the admen know what you've been doing on line and target you as part of their marketing, then the security services can as well. They just target a different profile.
Yes I agree - look up Cambridge Analytica and their role in the US presidential election
An Australian 7 year old is still missing after the attack, how the fuck does that even happen? Awful. Surely a body wouldn't been identified. Must've been taken but God knows who by.
They've found him. He was among the injured in Vall D'Hebron hospital. Injured but alive. You have to take it as good news (I feared the worst to be honest).
They've found him. He was among the injured in Vall D'Hebron hospital. Injured but alive. You have to take it as good news (I feared the worst to be honest).
I've read that that's false but the police think they might have his body.. So many contradicting reports coming out of Barcelona.
I do think that when these people are caught alive that they should be taken away, made to suffer horrifically and then just 'disappeared'. No noise, no fuss, they're just never heard of again.
I do think that when these people are caught alive that they should be taken away, made to suffer horrifically and then just 'disappeared'. No noise, no fuss, they're just never heard of again.
would be nice but they have human rights apparently, scum of the earth. of course spain and finland have killed millions in morocco etc. do think that channel 4 are a joke for having a drama show about going off to fight in syria or whatever country it is. hopefully some would be terrorists watch it and decide that trying to blow up the country which has been good enough to give you and education etc isnt a very good idea.
of course standing outside in silence doesn't bring them back, but just seen someone on twitter creating because the politicians didn't assemble outside grenfell tower for silence, ridiculous in my opinion this is also the clever individual that tweeted;
" majority of policiticans are white men and love nothing more than to mansplain "
in times like these social media really does give a voice to the morons of this world.
They held a demonstration against terrorism and in solidarity with the victims today in Barcelona. The estimate I saw was half a million people atended, however sadly, it will also be remembered for the varrious groups who attempted to hijack it (very appropriate wording) with the usual too and fro of Catalan politics. One of the parlimentary parties, the CUP managed to forget the point of the rally so entirely that the initially refused to attend as the Spanisg King was going to be there, though they did seem to wake up to just how pathetic an image they were providing later as they graciously agreed to attend but not to acknowlege the royal presence. The Spanish PM spent the whole run up saying how the attack showed the necessity for unity, while some of the Catalan groups began to say it showed the complete opposite.
On to the big day. A major grouping launched an alternative march an hour early, the major thrust of which was that a country that says it wants peace shouldn't be selling weapons aound the globe. Noble senitments, but really NOT the place for it. The Spanish King and PM were booed and whistled when they appeared. Again a pathetic response on a day everyone was supposed to stand together against terrorism. As in the Brexit vote, nobody will be asking me about Catalan Independence, but on todays' showing, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - those most in favor showed a lack of empathy for the occason that would provoke howls of protest if it was shown in Madrid or anywhere else in Spain. Not Barcelona's finset hour for me, though the petty minded reactions of the few shouldn't be allowed to overshadow the big hearted gesture of the majority, and Madrid should also get a shout out for their small but heartfelt show of solidarity.
Comments
The driver of this van apparently posted comments on social media a few days ago saying he would like to kill all non believers. And I bet that was not his only post expressing similar views.
I don't believe for a second it is not feasible. My internet activity is already automatically tracked and I am constantly getting adverts based on key words I have used.
Civil Liberty defenders are still winning the argument but every attack like this moves us closer to the point when governments in the free world will be forced towards mass automated surveillance.
We're largely already being monitored illegally to some degree. We should be fighting that, not encouraging more of it. A rough count shows that around 65 people have died in Europe in the last 12 months at the hands of terrorists. It's shocking and scary, but still a tiny percentage. More people died in car crashes in the time it took me to write this message, but I don't often read about calls to limit car speeds or give the authorities access to our driving data.
It's the indignity for the individual being filmed that's the issue.
Condolences to all those affected. Shit crazy world.
Police full on searching every vehicle.
Queues horrendous, but travelling in rather than out, not affected.
City seems pretty calm.
Just back from Barca tour and at the Betis game Sunday
#fuckemsaysrobboonthewing
Never mind these bastards, how Barcelona FC can charge €35 for a pair of kids shorts and €18 for socks worried me more
If ever there was an all powerful being I am confident his commandment would have been 'just be nice to each other'
RIP to the innocents killed senselessly by these animals, and a swift recovery to the injured.
No noise, no fuss, they're just never heard of again.
" majority of policiticans are white men and love nothing more than to mansplain "
in times like these social media really does give a voice to the morons of this world.
On to the big day. A major grouping launched an alternative march an hour early, the major thrust of which was that a country that says it wants peace shouldn't be selling weapons aound the globe. Noble senitments, but really NOT the place for it. The Spanish King and PM were booed and whistled when they appeared. Again a pathetic response on a day everyone was supposed to stand together against terrorism. As in the Brexit vote, nobody will be asking me about Catalan Independence, but on todays' showing, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - those most in favor showed a lack of empathy for the occason that would provoke howls of protest if it was shown in Madrid or anywhere else in Spain. Not Barcelona's finset hour for me, though the petty minded reactions of the few shouldn't be allowed to overshadow the big hearted gesture of the majority, and Madrid should also get a shout out for their small but heartfelt show of solidarity.