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The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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I can't speak for the other 19m people who voted leave but I wanted the Government to negotiate to leave the EU......which for me basically meant to leave the CU (therefore to end free movement of people) & the ECJ.seth plum said:
When you say we asked the government to do our 'bidding therein lies the rub.golfaddick said:
posting this using my phone so cant highlight in bold.....BUT.....seth plum said:
Why give it a rest? The UK is leaving at the end of next March.golfaddick said:
oh for gods sake give it a rest. Every time.....all you spout is "you voted leave....you deal with it".seth plum said:
I reckon the reason Theresa May plainly has no idea what she's doing was because she voted remain.golfaddick said:
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??Algarveaddick said:
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?golfaddick said:
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.MuttleyCAFC said:
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.harveys_gardener said:Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
http://uk.businessinsider.com/norway-style-soft-brexit-most-popular-outcome-among-british-people-opinium-poll-2018-6
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster
raving loony party.
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May.
Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
My post stated that (partly joking of course) it seems like The Government (you know, the ones in power & who should know what they are doing) opened a drawer on the 24th June that was marked "leave" and looked to see what needed to happen. It doesn't matter who the fuck open said drawer.....it appears that the incumbent PM hadn't a clue. If, as you summise, the Government were so clever in knowing that to leave would be such a shitfest, then why did TM, as a remainer and therefore such a sage in these matters, have no idea.
You make a massive assumption that the government in power should know what they're doing.
Why?
The people who should know what they're doing or what is supposed to happen post brexit are not the government, but brexit voters.
We are told the referendum result was the 'will of the people', not the 'will of the government', indeed when MPs actually come up with an approach they can be accused of betraying the will of the people.
May is staggering along with this not because she has, or is supposed to have an idea, but because of her simple lust for power.
If you voted brexit you could help out by writing to her with your workable, practical and affordable solution to the Irish border problem.
for the last time (because frankly I've had enough)
You keep saying that it us Brexit voters who should know what they're doing or what is supposee to happen & not the Government....
how excatly ?? because believe me I would if I could.
Last time I looked we had a Parliament that sorted these things out. we elect a Government to do our "bidding" for us. I can't simply go to Brussels & tell Mr Barnier what I want or voted for. So it is the Government I blame for this. They asked me to vote & that is what I did. end of. they did not ask me how I wanted to leave or what sort of deal I wanted.they simply asked did I want to leave the EU & I said Yes.
Please just accept that we voted differently. you wanted to remain, I wanted to leave. Neither of us has to "own" the result & neither of us can directly affect the outcome from here. It is for the UK Government & the EU to sort out. You or I have no more influence from here on in unless the Government asks us to vote again.
What have the brexit voters 'bid' for?
If the detail is avoided then the Government can say no change except blue passports and there's your brexit.
Fine.
If not fine then what?
Apply to brexit voters for the answer.
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And did you want to be out of the single market too?golfaddick said:
I can't speak for the other 19m people who voted leave but I wanted the Government to negotiate to leave the EU......which for me basically meant to leave the CU (therefore to end free movement of people) & the ECJ.seth plum said:
When you say we asked the government to do our 'bidding therein lies the rub.golfaddick said:
posting this using my phone so cant highlight in bold.....BUT.....seth plum said:
Why give it a rest? The UK is leaving at the end of next March.golfaddick said:
oh for gods sake give it a rest. Every time.....all you spout is "you voted leave....you deal with it".seth plum said:
I reckon the reason Theresa May plainly has no idea what she's doing was because she voted remain.golfaddick said:
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??Algarveaddick said:
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?golfaddick said:
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.MuttleyCAFC said:
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.harveys_gardener said:Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
http://uk.businessinsider.com/norway-style-soft-brexit-most-popular-outcome-among-british-people-opinium-poll-2018-6
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster
raving loony party.
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May.
Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
My post stated that (partly joking of course) it seems like The Government (you know, the ones in power & who should know what they are doing) opened a drawer on the 24th June that was marked "leave" and looked to see what needed to happen. It doesn't matter who the fuck open said drawer.....it appears that the incumbent PM hadn't a clue. If, as you summise, the Government were so clever in knowing that to leave would be such a shitfest, then why did TM, as a remainer and therefore such a sage in these matters, have no idea.
You make a massive assumption that the government in power should know what they're doing.
Why?
The people who should know what they're doing or what is supposed to happen post brexit are not the government, but brexit voters.
We are told the referendum result was the 'will of the people', not the 'will of the government', indeed when MPs actually come up with an approach they can be accused of betraying the will of the people.
May is staggering along with this not because she has, or is supposed to have an idea, but because of her simple lust for power.
If you voted brexit you could help out by writing to her with your workable, practical and affordable solution to the Irish border problem.
for the last time (because frankly I've had enough)
You keep saying that it us Brexit voters who should know what they're doing or what is supposee to happen & not the Government....
how excatly ?? because believe me I would if I could.
Last time I looked we had a Parliament that sorted these things out. we elect a Government to do our "bidding" for us. I can't simply go to Brussels & tell Mr Barnier what I want or voted for. So it is the Government I blame for this. They asked me to vote & that is what I did. end of. they did not ask me how I wanted to leave or what sort of deal I wanted.they simply asked did I want to leave the EU & I said Yes.
Please just accept that we voted differently. you wanted to remain, I wanted to leave. Neither of us has to "own" the result & neither of us can directly affect the outcome from here. It is for the UK Government & the EU to sort out. You or I have no more influence from here on in unless the Government asks us to vote again.
What have the brexit voters 'bid' for?
If the detail is avoided then the Government can say no change except blue passports and there's your brexit.
Fine.
If not fine then what?
Apply to brexit voters for the answer.
The number that voted leave was only 17,410,7422 -
Made me chuckle this you wum. Pwopa silly bollocks.Chippycafc said:
All those that were posting their bollocks here and didn't go to today's game...that good enough for you..Stig said:Who are you calling a bully?
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”2 -
golfaddick said:seth plum said:golfaddick said:seth plum said:golfaddick said:
Do you realise what you have said?seth plum said:
I can't speak for the other 19m people who voted leave but I wanted the Government to negotiate to leave the EU......which for me basically meant to leave the CU (therefore to end free movement of people) & the ECJ.golfaddick said:
When you say we asked the government to do our 'bidding therein lies the rub.Algarveaddick said:
posting this using my phone so cant highlight in bold.....BUT.....golfaddick said:
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?MuttleyCAFC said:
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.harveys_gardener said:Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster
raving loony party.
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Why?
The people who should know what they're doing or what is supposed to happen post brexit are not the government, but brexit voters.
We are told the referendum result was the 'will of the people', not the 'will of the government', indeed when MPs actually come up with an approach they can be accused of betraying the will of the people.
May is staggering along with this not because she has, or is supposed to have an idea, but because of her simple lust for power.
If you voted brexit you could help out by writing to her with your workable, practical and affordable solution to the Irish border problem.
for the last time (because frankly I've had enough)
You keep saying that it us Brexit voters who should know what they're doing or what is supposee to happen & not the Government....
how excatly ?? because believe me I would if I could.
Last time I looked we had a Parliament that sorted these things out. we elect a Government to do our "bidding" for us. I can't simply go to Brussels & tell Mr Barnier what I want or voted for. So it is the Government I blame for this. They asked me to vote & that is what I did. end of. they did not ask me how I wanted to leave or what sort of deal I wanted.they simply asked did I want to leave the EU & I said Yes.
Please just accept that we voted differently. you wanted to remain, I wanted to leave. Neither of us has to "own" the result & neither of us can directly affect the outcome from here. It is for the UK Government & the EU to sort out. You or I have no more influence from here on in unless the Government asks us to vote again.
What have the brexit voters 'bid' for?
If the detail is avoided then the Government can say no change except blue passports and there's your brexit.
Fine.
If not fine then what?
Apply to brexit voters for the answer.
You voted to leave the EU, but want the Government to 'negotiate' leaving.
What is there to negotiate?
Unless of course you mean all the myriad of details you had in mind when voting?
If that is true can you give any examples and your preferred outcomes?
If that is not true then why not advocate a complete break? No need to discuss anything.
If your aspiration is anything other than complete withdrawal and to have nothing to do with the EU, then I am afraid you have to engage with the details and there is where the difficulty lies. Brexit voters have shown no idea so far how to get what was voted for by the 'will of the people'. So they wash their hands of the responsibility by firstly leaving the detail to others, and then going on to blame others when what they don't know what they want isn't delivered.0 -
God knows what happened to my rep!y.1
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It got stopped at the Irish borderseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
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don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.0 -
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.1 - Sponsored links:
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So you are still supporting the regime then?Chippycafc said:
All those that were posting their bollocks here and didn't go to today's game...that good enough for you..Stig said:Who are you calling a bully?
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Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(
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If he (JC) doesn't shift his arse soon he never will.PragueAddick said:
Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(0 -
Yeah but it was in the Guardian/ObserverPragueAddick said:
Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(
As you say it certainly gives Mr Corbyn something to think about and strengthens Keir Starmer’s hand.0 -
And then there is the change of editorship at the Mail.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/aug/11/new-daily-mail-editor-will-strike-tolerant-brexit-note?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
This is going to be absolutely fascinating to watch. Shifting sands. Speaking of which I am pondering starting a petition to get Johnson's friend Sarah Sands booted out of the editorship of the Today programme on Radio 4. Under her it has lost 800,000 listeners, but many of those who still tune in, including me, are getting massively pissed off.2 -
He will shift diddly. He wants a Brexit as much as Rees-Mogg. He’s just too cowardly to say it.Cordoban Addick said:
If he (JC) doesn't shift his arse soon he never will.PragueAddick said:
Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(
3 -
Quite possibly, but I live in hope. Perhaps he will respect the democratic will of the party!ShootersHillGuru said:
He will shift diddly. He wants a Brexit as much as Rees-Mogg. He’s just too cowardly to say it.Cordoban Addick said:
If he (JC) doesn't shift his arse soon he never will.PragueAddick said:
Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(0 -
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.3 -
If it had been down to you, and we had "simply left", what would your solution to the Irish border be?golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.2 -
Triggering Article 50 in such an unseemly rush was nothing but ridiculous political gesturing by a rookie prime minister desperate to make a name for herself. But I think we need to be clear on this, it isn't Article 50 in and of itself which is the real problem. The real problem is the absolute mess we are in without the cooperation of Europe on a whole number of fronts. It is Brexit itself that is the problem rather than the escape mechanism. In practically every sphere of life leaving puts us in a worse position than staying. Everybody knows it despite the continuous, "la ,la, la, not listening, la, la, la" fingers-in-ears mantra of those Brexit supporters suffering from wilful cognitive dissonance.golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.
The bottom line is that not one single politician on the leave side had put in the ground work to even understand, let alone solve, the myriad of problems associated with leaving. So we are in a position where we are just months away from being up shit creek without a paddle. Supply chain problems, inflation, devaluation of sterling, queues at ports, lessened police cooperation, diminished consumer protection, diminished civil rights, chlorinated chicken and a myriad of other problems. All of those are very real problems that we face in March if nobody can find a way of stopping this nightmare. Still, at least we didn't do what you're suggesting and bring them on two years ago with absolutely no thought and no planning. That would have been an even bigger folly.8 - Sponsored links:
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By Article 50 you mean the rule that as a member state we helped write and agreed to abide by.golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.
7 -
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Whether we helped write the rule is irrelevant. We shouldn't have triggered it without a Plan A, B or C or even a basic understanding of the issues to be solved, most prominent the border question which no leaver has addressed.ShootersHillGuru said:
By Article 50 you mean the rule that as a member state we helped write and agreed to abide by.golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.1 -
But Golfie is arguing we should have left without going through the process of triggering Article 50, which is even dafter.2
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Thing about the WTO I want to know is who runs it
If Corbyn goes, Brexit is over.Cordoban Addick said:
If he (JC) doesn't shift his arse soon he never will.PragueAddick said:
Worth a read? Think you do it an injustice. It's the biggest piece of research yet to document a shift in opinion on Brexit, and the biggest shifts are in the Labour heartlands. Quite made my day.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn :-(
It's only the man who lays wreaths on terrorists graves stopping it now.0 -
If the people of Northern Ireland are being ignored for Brexit, spare a thought for the people of Gibraltar who seem to not enter at all into the UK government's shambolic preparations for Brexit, with this phrase from the report below summing it up:
''The depressing reality seems to be that it is Spain that recognises the urgency of arriving at a Brexit deal and the chaos that will be caused at the border with Gibraltar if no deal is reached''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/24/gibraltar-spain-vents-frustration-with-uk-in-brexit-talks
The people of Gibraltar have previously voted overwhelmingly to stay as a UK territory but are being given no reassurances by the UK about their future. Yet another mess created with no resolution put in place or even thought through.9 -
Golfie, what would your solution be? If we "simply left", we wouldn't have a trade deal with the EU and thus we would not have anything in place in order to trade with our most important partners. I think that would be cataclysmic, but I appreciate your view might be different.Chizz said:
If it had been down to you, and we had "simply left", what would your solution to the Irish border be?golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.
But, assuming we did crash out of the EU (ie, we "simply left"), what would you do with regards to the Irish border? Remember that, without a border in place, we would not be able to trade under WTO terms. (To be clear, the WTO would not allow trade with a third party that is unable to demonstrate a secure customs border. Obviously).
So, how would you deal with crashing out of the EU? Would you scrabble about to get some kind of barrier built over the 400km of the border and hope it's in place soon enough for a WTO deal to be put in place? Or would you do without any infrastructure (given that there would be no time to put anything in place) and forget about having trade deals?
I know there are some hard-of-thought people (including one or two on here) who either wouldn't understand the question or would dismiss it, because it's too hard. But I wouldn't put you in that catergory, @golfaddick - you come across as a lot more sapiential. So what's your answer to the border if we were just "simply" to leave?4 -
Chizz said:
AFAIK China is a WTO member, yet has a 'borderless border' with Burma, I know because I've been there, how exactly does that work?Chizz said:golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.
But, assuming we did crash out of the EU (ie, we "simply left"), what would you do with regards to the Irish border? Remember that, without a border in place, we would not be able to trade under WTO terms. (To be clear, the WTO would not allow trade with a third party that is unable to demonstrate a secure customs border. Obviously).
I'm pretty sure Trump hasn't built the wall yet either, so that's a pretty soft border between Mexico and the US.0 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
I'd be interested to see whether Golfie's solution relies on something like Burma's membership of ASEAN. Golfie..?Chizz said:
AFAIK China is a WTO member, yet has a 'borderless border' with Burma, I know because I've been there, how exactly does that work?Chizz said:golfaddick said:
I didn't. I voted simply to leave. If it were down to me I would have done as you suggested & simply left. It appears that triggering Artcle 50 meant we have had to go through this whole charade.seth plum said:
No. It was in response to your post saying you voted for the government to 'negotiate' leaving.golfaddick said:
don't worry as I can guess what it said......something along the lines ofseth plum said:God knows what happened to my rep!y.
own it
make it happen
ad infinitum.
What exactly do you want them to negotiate?
Why negotiate anything rather than have an absolute break and cut off all contact completely?
Unless of course there are details you want sorted out and outcomes you expect?
If so what details and what outcomes did you have in mind when voting, and how exactly are they to be achieved?
Maybe you don't know, but expect 'the government' to read your mind or second guess you.
But, assuming we did crash out of the EU (ie, we "simply left"), what would you do with regards to the Irish border? Remember that, without a border in place, we would not be able to trade under WTO terms. (To be clear, the WTO would not allow trade with a third party that is unable to demonstrate a secure customs border. Obviously).
I'm pretty sure Trump hasn't built the wall yet either, so that's a pretty soft border between Mexico and the US.
Stu, the absence of a physical border in some places between Mexico and the US, does not mean that the two countries are in a free-trade customs union. The UK and the Republic of Ireland currently have no need for checks, declarations or tariffs when goods move across the border. And that is the case right up to 29 March. I'm interested to know how Golfie's "simply leave" would work in respect of the Irish border. Since "simply leaving", ie without a deal, does not provide for customs declarations to be introduced. And, if we don't check goods travelling between the UK and the EU, it rather suppers our plan to trade under WTO rules.
@golfaddick what do you say?0 -
That's the idea...to lighten this up..some take themselves far too seriously.....theeenorth said:
Made me chuckle this you wum. Pwopa silly bollocks.Chippycafc said:
All those that were posting their bollocks here and didn't go to today's game...that good enough for you..Stig said:Who are you calling a bully?
0 -
They never asked anybody, ...it was supported and carried out/funded by two, yes two pro remain groups and the results were scientifically forecast.Chaz Hill said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I know it hasn’t been confirmed by LBC but worth a read. “Will of the people”0
This discussion has been closed.
