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The influence of the EU on Britain.
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I stand corrected on Osborne having attended Eton. Still doesn’t detract that 19 out of 54 British Prime Ministers have been ex Eton College students so no I don’t think it detracts from that and it certainly isn’t a conspiracy theory is it.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Since when do facts have anything to do with a nice conspiracy though...aliwibble said:
Osborne went to St Paul's though. Didn't do PPE at university either, but has a history degree.ShootersHillGuru said:
All true but it’s still quite amazing that when David Cameron was PM. George Osborne was Chancellor and both from Eton.A-R-T-H-U-R said:Look how far back these PM s from Eton go. Not much competition then, and still today they have the top department/top3/5? In the country. The average loaded Eton thicko won't get into a level politics without 5As +4Bs at GCSE in a bad year.
I don’t care what anybody says I won’t not be convinced that somewhere there is quite a significant old boys network ensuring that Eton is always highly represented in government.
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One thing that you get from public school are connections... I know a goat few people who went (unavoidable in my profession) and they can all name drop several rich and/famous people or theor progeny who they know from school. They also get access to the best facilities and teaching... I noticed that ex Essex all-rounder Graham Napier has set up a cricket school at a public school. Can't imagine him teaching at my old school.
One thing we can all do though is help out by going to local schools and just telling the kids about your jobs, what you do, and giving advice about the best way to get into it... Like advice for going to university, or the best training programs (and the ones to avoid). Will then start to give the kids some advantages they otherwise wouldn't get. I do exactly that myself, telling kids about careers in intellectual property. It's such a niche field, you wouldn't normally know about it unless you know someone who does it. I've found it does inspire kids, and give them something to aim for, and some of the tools they need to get there. Careers advice in schools is generally awful.2 -
I give career advice to those thinking of joining the prison service. I usually advise them to think again.1
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That's the right wing press view, as mentioned.Southbank said:
I agree with your conclusion and why as a Leaver I am in favour of another referendum. Asking people to carry on with unrestricted immigration, subsidising the EU to the tune of 9 billion a year and having a distant and unaccountable Court make decisions that affect our lives and you will get the same result-except this time it should be an instruction to leave whatever.Bournemouth Addick said:
I agree with all of that too...with the exception another referendum would result in a Remain outcome. I'd like to think so obviously but I think we'd just have the same old bollocks in the Mail et al and the same old soundbites and lies from Farage, etc. and, because it's what people want to believe, the outcome would still be Leave. The thing that might sway it is the demographics I suppose.Carter said:
Breaking my own rule to not contribute hereBournemouth Addick said:
I actually agree with a much of the original post but this whole myth around the Irish rerunning referendums really annoys me as it feeds directly into the whole 'EU=bullying undemocratic dictatorship' narrative spouted by Leavers.randy andy said:Ireland didn't have multiple referendums until they got the "right" result. This is a perpuated by the uninformed or the deliberately disingenuous.
They held a referendum on whether to accept the treaty. The Irish people said no. They were asked why and then the treaty was renegotiated to satisfy their concerns.
Another referendum was held to see if the Irish people where happy with the amended treaty and they voted yes.
This is perfectly acceptable in a properly functioning democracy. The fact people can't understand that tells you everything you need to know about the state of our democracy.
Even more telling is that many Brexiters will claim they voted leave because the EU isn't democratic, whilst blithely ignoring the major deficiencies in our own democracy.
Without checking admittedly, but I'm pretty sure none of the votes held on the treaties were about the adoption of the euro either.
I could be wrong and I probably am about Ireland and the euro, the main guts of my post was to say it's obvious the political establishment did not want the result they got. As someone who isn't part of that I just see they still haven't got it, the vote should never have happened.
Cameron could have seen off UKIP considering they hardly had any representation in parliament he should not have risen to the bait but what he should have done was shown tangible, actual action to address the issues even he must have known are bubbling under the surface.
If May held abother referendum tomorrow knowing what we know now, I am confident we would he remaining. Johnson and Gove proved themselves to be the dogs that caught the car and Farage is not even an MP and for all his bluster and bullshit about having worked in commerce, he hasn't done so for a long time and certainly not to any extent that he is an expert, more an opportunist gobshite
The government and to be honest, society, needs to open up about the issues that caused millions of people to tick the leave box else we will never progress. All this nonsense about alt-right Nazis and left wing snowflakes is bollocks, people are allowed to be different and have different opinions and views. If our leaders don't address the issues or are blind to them having another referendum will be a disaster
We live in strange old times.
Immigration from EU member states is only unrestricted (and necessary by all accounts, but that's another story, done to death, and continually ignored by quitters) because the UK government has made a decision to make it so.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration
The 9 billion does not take into account the savings made and the benefits reaped by the freedom of movement of goods and services. The use of the word subsidy rather than contribution is disingenuous, and very tabloid press like.
This is also interesting - the reality of how the payments to the EU affect the individual, which is what matters in the end.
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-membership-value-post-brexit-budget-coffee-index/
How do we hold UK courts to account? I was never asked to elect a judge, and I don't think you were either.
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In 2011 this was the list of Old Etonians who were actually in government. Not just MP’s
Here’s the list:
David Cameron
Lord Howell (Foreign Office minister)
Henry Bellingham (Foreign Office minister)
Lord Astor of Hever (Defence minister)
Hugo Swire (Northern Ireland minister)
Sir George Young (Leader of the Commons)
Oliver Letwin (Cabinet Office minister)
Nick Hurd (Cabinet Office minister)
Philip Dunne (whip)
Bill Wiggin (whip)
Lord DeMauley (whip)
Lord Sassoon (Treasury minister)
@Stu_of_Kunming - Hardly a conspiracy is it.2 -
Morning all. On the London bound train from Eltham heading for Speakers Corner and the #PeoplesVoteMarch . Looking forward especially to meeting the #Wooferendum dogs and passing on a bark of support from Gina our short-haired German hunting dog.
And then back to the Valley for 't Barnsleh.
Bollocks to Brexit! :-)7 -
I might be one of the few people who feels disquiet that so many think the purpose of education is about future jobs and careers.4
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Mo Molam was the only child of three of a who passed her 11+. She went to Grammar School in Coventry, the transferred to a Comprehesive there. Then got into Durham University.
Arguably she achieved more 'good' in politics than any Eton educated politician in the post war era.3 -
PragueAddick said:
Morning all. On the London bound train from Eltham heading for Speakers Corner and the #PeoplesVoteMarch . Looking forward especially to meeting the #Wooferendum dogs and passing on a bark of support from Gina our short-haired German hunting dog.
And then back to the Valley for 't Barnsleh.
Bollocks to Brexit! :-)
Give my regards to Alistair CampbellPragueAddick said:Morning all. On the London bound train from Eltham heading for Speakers Corner and the #PeoplesVoteMarch . Looking forward especially to meeting the #Wooferendum dogs and passing on a bark of support from Gina our short-haired German hunting dog.
And then back to the Valley for 't Barnsleh.
Bollocks to Brexit! :-)1 -
Jubilee tube a sea of blue and yellow. Plus of course a couple of herberts who think Brexit is a football match. Lovely friends you have, @Southbank1
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This is Chunky. He is the dog who pissed on Rees-Mogg last time. Great British bulldog spirit.0
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Back in Charlton. They are claiming 570,000 and I wouldnt bet against that. Green Park closed when I tried to bail out at 13.00 due to pressure of people, had to leg it to Bond Street just to get away.
Fantastic people, fantastic life affirming event12 -
Thanks to everyone who attended.5
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Only another 16.8 million to go.PragueAddick said:Back in Charlton. They are claiming 570,000 and I wouldnt bet against that. Green Park closed when I tried to bail out at 13.00 due to pressure of people, had to leg it to Bond Street just to get away.
Fantastic people, fantastic life affirming event
Up the addicks!7 -
Good to see you unleashing your inner soshalist.PragueAddick said:Back in Charlton. They are claiming 570,000 and I wouldnt bet against that. Green Park closed when I tried to bail out at 13.00 due to pressure of people, had to leg it to Bond Street just to get away.
Fantastic people, fantastic life affirming event0 -
670,000 at the Remain rally and 1200 at the Leave means leave rally 😀3
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I guess I'm not going to get the courtesy of a reply then...Bournemouth Addick said:
Again, what's your point this time? Do you think I'm Alistair Campbell?Southbank said:
'Over 1m people marched, urging the government – of which you were a central figure – not to invade Iraq. You ignored them. Why should this government take any notice of 100k Remainers calling for a second referendum?’Bournemouth Addick said:
Well since you've name checked me I will be at neither actually. For reasons that are none of your business.Jensenwasclass said:Good luck Seth Plum, Bournemouth Addick, Red in SE8, Muttley etc.
Guess you will be marching instead of watching Charlton v Barnsley1
What's your point btw? That you're more of a 'true' CAFC supporter than me? Is it not possible to be passionate about Charlton and also really concerned about the direction this country is going?
Andrew Neill's question to Alistair Campbell, one of the organisers of tomorrow's March.1 -
Diane Abbott on counting duties was she?2
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BBC reporting 700,0001
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I'm guessing not much need to be at the leave one. They won, and that was that. It's all going to be ok.4
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That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.4 -
Could do worse...buckshee said:Diane Abbott on counting duties was she?
https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/philip-hammond-hs2-cost-wrong-20bn-radio-interview-highspeed-railway-4-today-programme-election-2017-a7742006.html
:-)4 -
Wouldn't be at all surprised. Hat's off to all those fighting for common sense and democracy.ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
https://news.sky.com/video/copter-footage-shows-size-of-brexit-demo-114143661 -
seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
Actually the organisers claimed 700,000 and the BBC reported the claim. The police refused to give an estimate, too much of a political hot potato.seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
I am sure there were a lot of Remainers on the streets today tho, London has always been Remain.
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Just as they refuse to investigate the Vote Leave election expenditure scandal for the same reason : "political sensitivity". I cannot remember them ever refusing to estimate a protest crowd before. And they had enough helicopters in the air. It's wholly unacceptable, and we won't have heard the last of it.Southbank said:seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
Actually the organisers claimed 700,000 and the BBC reported the claim. The police refused to give an estimate, too much of a political hot potato.seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
I am sure there were a lot of Remainers on the streets today tho, London has always been Remain.
At the Wooferendum event before it started, the guy leading the event started predicting the effect if the numbers reached a certain level. He stopped at 300k ("they will be shitting themselves" ) . He also said that as they march at the back, they expected to wait until 13.00 before they moved off. So the numbers were twice his wildest dreams, and I was already at The Valley before my four legged comrades got a proper walk. I think 700k is perfectly believable.
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Well done for going @PragueAddick, Helen was there too but she didn't spot you.PragueAddick said:
Just as they refuse to investigate the Vote Leave election expenditure scandal for the same reason : "political sensitivity". I cannot remember them ever refusing to estimate a protest crowd before. And they had enough helicopters in the air. It's wholly unacceptable, and we won't have heard the last of it.Southbank said:seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
Actually the organisers claimed 700,000 and the BBC reported the claim. The police refused to give an estimate, too much of a political hot potato.seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
I am sure there were a lot of Remainers on the streets today tho, London has always been Remain.
At the Wooferendum event before it started, the guy leading the event started predicting the effect if the numbers reached a certain level. He stopped at 300k ("they will be shitting themselves" ) . He also said that as they march at the back, they expected to wait until 13.00 before they moved off. So the numbers were twice his wildest dreams, and I was already at The Valley before my four legged comrades got a proper walk. I think 700k is perfectly believable.1 -
I didnt spot the Leader of the Next Layber Guvt pledged to Soshulist Policees, either. Was he there?Cordoban Addick said:
Well done for going @PragueAddick, Helen was there too but she didn't spot you.PragueAddick said:
Just as they refuse to investigate the Vote Leave election expenditure scandal for the same reason : "political sensitivity". I cannot remember them ever refusing to estimate a protest crowd before. And they had enough helicopters in the air. It's wholly unacceptable, and we won't have heard the last of it.Southbank said:seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
Actually the organisers claimed 700,000 and the BBC reported the claim. The police refused to give an estimate, too much of a political hot potato.seriously_red said:
That would be the liberal elite / remain establishment fake news channel?!ShootersHillGuru said:BBC reporting 700,000
This should galvanize those members of Parliament who see an opportunity to take back control of democracy.
Will be interesting to see how the event will be digested over the next week or two.
I am sure there were a lot of Remainers on the streets today tho, London has always been Remain.
At the Wooferendum event before it started, the guy leading the event started predicting the effect if the numbers reached a certain level. He stopped at 300k ("they will be shitting themselves" ) . He also said that as they march at the back, they expected to wait until 13.00 before they moved off. So the numbers were twice his wildest dreams, and I was already at The Valley before my four legged comrades got a proper walk. I think 700k is perfectly believable.
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