The i newspaper is reporting that with the rise in electricity prices, it now costs more to "mine" a sparkly new bitcoin than its current market "value".
All this means is there will be less miners, which means the cost/complexity to complete a block gets less, so the value/cost will equalise. Part of the genius of the system.
FTX was, I believe, recommended on here as a suitable vehicle so it's clear that FTX going down does not just affect the less than sophisticated investor but also those who are hardened to and understand the pitfalls in trading on such an exchange. Without regulation and the associated compensation that brings, where is the confidence that this won't happen to another platform? Surely the collapse of FTX will also have the knock on effect in that it will not just stop future investors from getting involved but will cause existing holders to de-invest albeit that would, in doing so, result in many crystalising their losses given what has generally happened to Crypto markets? Or am I missing something here?
To play devils advocate wasn’t a supposed strength of the origins of Crypto that it wasn’t regulated?
For me it’s still the case that until the blockchain gets its ‘killer’ app or real world usage then investment is very speculative. It’s not clear to me why or how there are multiple cryptos currently without any obvious practical application but I am likely ill informed.
The gamble / incentive I imagine is backing the right horse to gain most from something taking off big time. Hopefully those individuals that have lost have mostly only lost paper profit and not significant cash investments.
All money gone and I suspect someone will be disappearing very soon.
People wanted deregulation or decentralization? I think those who support crypto as the better future want the latter which is very different from deregulation. No different to holding shares in your own name or in a centralized custody account. One you have control of, the other you entrust into the care of others.
What just happened was on a centralized exchange which isn't of course fraud proof. DEX however is a completely different concept. Some on here seem confused between the two and about what just happened and why.
The whole "there is a limited supply of..." - does it really apply?
I get it with gold because it can't be "created" but what's stopping the Japanese founder fella or anyone else just making a few more BitCoin, DonkeyDoo, RolyPolys on their computer etc.? I don't know, but is it 100% limited? Is there absolutely no possible way more could be created?
There will be a limited supply. All of it’s mathematics rely on that, if you change it, the entire thing breaks, like any piece of code or maths.
Still cant get my money out of coinbase. Going to put the money into Bitcoin and transfer into TRON asap.
Zuckerberg posted this earlier in the week:
With the rise of a small number of big tech companies — and governments using technology to watch their citizens — many people now believe technology only centralizes power rather than decentralizes it.
There are important counter-trends to this --like encryption and cryptocurrency -- that take power from centralized systems and put it back into people's hands. But they come with the risk of being harder to control. I'm interested to go deeper and study the positive and negative aspects of these technologies, and how best to use them in our services.
Rumours he may team up with some sort of crypto for Facebook
Yup, blockchain is a secure, fraud proof system.
I could be wrong, but I believe what’s been stolen was actually held on the exchange. Rather than directly from the blockchain.
Yes I know thank you. It was more a reference to the whole unregulated Crypto environment, which is always going to be ripe with manipulation and fraud.
As I said all along if you fully understand how it all works, where your money is going and that you can access it immediately when you choose, then good luck.
But if you don't the best advice is to steer clear, because the money will in the main, go to those that are controlling the unregulated "market" and funded by the smaller investors who do not fully understand what they are doing and that they have little to no protection.
All money gone and I suspect someone will be disappearing very soon.
People wanted deregulation or decentralization? I think those who support crypto as the better future want the latter which is very different from deregulation. No different to holding shares in your own name or in a centralized custody account. One you have control of, the other you entrust into the care of others.
What just happened was on a centralized exchange which isn't of course fraud proof. DEX however is a completely different concept. Some on here seem confused between the two and about what just happened and why.
100%. Many are against bad regulation, not regulation generally.
What happened with ftx could’ve happened with any other company run by malicious actors - look at what happened with Enron. This debacle just proves decentralisation is best.
Also worth noting sam bankman-fried and ftx were heavy supporters of regulation. They’re a far cry from the stereotypical right wing libertarian cryptobros - SBF is vegan, major democrat donor and repeatedly said he’d give his billions away for charity. To frame this as some unregulated Right wing rabble taking peoples money is incorrect.
Covered End, I get and understand what you are trying to warn people of and I applaud you for that. But stating as fact that the "Crypto environment, which is ALWAYS going to be ripe with manipulation and fraud" is very misleading and just demonstrates a blinkered and contrary view to what the likes of Kentaddick (who is clearly the best educated on this subject) has been trying to help those (who you seek to protect) same vulnerable individuals to understand the subject. I include myself in that category (wanting to be better educated on the subject), but "Defi" is a very different subject matter than centralized exchanges and therein your assertions about blockchain fall down imho.
Yes, kind of. We’ll see some relief at some point maybe imminently, but there is further to fall. But psychologically everyone is panicking and thinking crypto is dead or dying. Which tells me a bottom will be coming close.
Covered End, I get and understand what you are trying to warn people of and I applaud you for that. But stating as fact that the "Crypto environment, which is ALWAYS going to be ripe with manipulation and fraud" is very misleading and just demonstrates a blinkered and contrary view to what the likes of Kentaddick (who is clearly the best educated on this subject) has been trying to help those (who you seek to protect) same vulnerable individuals to understand the subject. I include myself in that category (wanting to be better educated on the subject), but "Defi" is a very different subject matter than centralized exchanges and therein your assertions about blockchain fall down imho.
What if I told you there was bank account you could get that is about to launch a defi savings product with aave imminently?
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Yes, kind of. We’ll see some relief at some point maybe imminently, but there is further to fall. But psychologically everyone is panicking and thinking crypto is dead or dying. Which tells me a bottom will be coming close.
I agree and as we have both agreed, Bitcoin and Etherium were always likely to be a relative success. Crypto isn't dead or dying but it is extremely high risk.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
I think you are confusing cryptocurrency with the U.S. Dollar Seth.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
Well I didn’t defend crypto. I made the observation that confidence and belief are part of the traditional economy too. That was all.
Our currency is no longer backed by gold alone and relies on confidence and faith in our economic system.
Crypto does (if I understand correctly) have the underlying technology of the so called blockchain but as I said earlier we have yet to see a real and valuable application this. It’s not completely without ‘something’ but its value is not yet proven to me at least.
I agree it’s wrapped up in a language that’s incomprehensible to fool and excite and is no doubt being exploited by some. The fact also that the criminal world seemingly use it is a red flag too.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Nah just wait for the next bitcoin halving where bitcoin gets even more scarce so the supply continues to go down vs demand.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
Well I didn’t defend crypto. I made the observation that confidence and belief are part of the traditional economy too. That was all.
Our currency is no longer backed by gold alone and relies on confidence and faith in our economic system.
Crypto does (if I understand correctly) have the underlying technology of the so called blockchain but as I said earlier we have yet to see a real and valuable application this. It’s not completely without ‘something’ but its value is not yet proven to me at least.
I agree it’s wrapped up in a language that’s incomprehensible to fool and excite and is no doubt being exploited by some. The fact also that the criminal world seemingly use it is a red flag too.
Even the system of economic activity in the UK creates something that others seem to want (like the coffee and oil), for example the UK creative industries get more foreign exchange for the UK than manufacturing. If the 'blockchain' is to have any meaning, or to be taken seriously, it needs to be demonstrated as such, however the message sent out is so obfuscated, and it is accompanied with the refrain 'you're too stupid to understand', or 'try researching it and learning about it'. How does cryptocurrency mean anything for the people who effectively live 'off grid'?
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
Well I didn’t defend crypto. I made the observation that confidence and belief are part of the traditional economy too. That was all.
Our currency is no longer backed by gold alone and relies on confidence and faith in our economic system.
Crypto does (if I understand correctly) have the underlying technology of the so called blockchain but as I said earlier we have yet to see a real and valuable application this. It’s not completely without ‘something’ but its value is not yet proven to me at least.
I agree it’s wrapped up in a language that’s incomprehensible to fool and excite and is no doubt being exploited by some. The fact also that the criminal world seemingly use it is a red flag too.
Even the system of economic activity in the UK creates something that others seem to want (like the coffee and oil), for example the UK creative industries get more foreign exchange for the UK than manufacturing. If the 'blockchain' is to have any meaning, or to be taken seriously, it needs to be demonstrated as such, however the message sent out is so obfuscated, and it is accompanied with the refrain 'you're too stupid to understand', or 'try researching it and learning about it'. How does cryptocurrency mean anything for the people who effectively live 'off grid'?
I’ve repeatedly explained to you in plain English many, many times. Many other posters have pointed out that it’s been explained to you in plain English many, many times.
Maybe it’s worth taking a break, reflecting on this and come back with a fresh mind and re read through what people have (repeatedly) explained to you in plain terms.
No it isn’t. It’s backed by the Bank of England, who promise to back your bank notes with… other bank notes.
What you are referencing might be:
“in terms of the labour theory of value, the cost to produce a banknote is minimal, however, its real value lies in the value of the goods and services you can exchange it for.”
So.. much like the value of ethereum is in you spending ETH to change the ledger to execute smart contracts or simple programmes on the decentralised database that is its blockchain. Only there is falling supply.
It's actually the British Government that backs the pound Seth. As do all governments who have adopted FIAT currency. The British Economy impacts the exchange value of the pound to pay for international trade etc. Not sure what any of that has to do with the usefulness of Crypto on blockchain unless you are, as MrOneLung points out, worried about a replacement for traditional currency. Crypto are classed as assets and not money. Just like a house or a share in a company is an asset and not money. But they do have monetary value.
Would anybody agree that the Saudi Riyal is backed by the Saudi Economy?
It's backed by the Saudi Central Bank and pegged against the USD at a fixed rate. The Saudi economy is backed by oil & gas. What has that got to do with Cryptos which is the subject here?
Comments
I think those who support crypto as the better future want the latter which is very different from deregulation.
No different to holding shares in your own name or in a centralized custody account.
One you have control of, the other you entrust into the care of others.
What just happened was on a centralized exchange which isn't of course fraud proof.
DEX however is a completely different concept. Some on here seem confused between the two and about what just happened and why.
It was more a reference to the whole unregulated Crypto environment, which is always going to be ripe with manipulation and fraud.
As I said all along if you fully understand how it all works, where your money is going and that you can access it immediately when you choose, then good luck.
But if you don't the best advice is to steer clear, because the money will in the main, go to those that are controlling the unregulated "market" and funded by the smaller investors who do not fully understand what they are doing and that they have little to no protection.
Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe.
You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Crypto isn't dead or dying but it is extremely high risk.
I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'.
The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell.
We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere.
To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
If the 'blockchain' is to have any meaning, or to be taken seriously, it needs to be demonstrated as such, however the message sent out is so obfuscated, and it is accompanied with the refrain 'you're too stupid to understand', or 'try researching it and learning about it'.
How does cryptocurrency mean anything for the people who effectively live 'off grid'?
From the bank of England’s website.
So.. much like the value of ethereum is in you spending ETH to change the ledger to execute smart contracts or simple programmes on the decentralised database that is its blockchain. Only there is falling supply.
The British Economy impacts the exchange value of the pound to pay for international trade etc.
Not sure what any of that has to do with the usefulness of Crypto on blockchain unless you are, as MrOneLung points out, worried about a replacement for traditional currency. Crypto are classed as assets and not money. Just like a house or a share in a company is an asset and not money. But they do have monetary value.
The Saudi economy is backed by oil & gas.
What has that got to do with Cryptos which is the subject here?