It doesn’t mean anything to the people who live off grid Seth.
Not sure what your point is there. It is not a replacement for traditional currency.
You do know there is nothing backing the Great British Pound don’t you?
No I don't know that because there are things backing the British Pound.
*citation needed
Well, kind of. The actual folding stuff in circulation is approx. £90,000mn. For each and every one of those notes in circulation the BoE holds an equivalent sum in investments. Some Gilts but by far and away mostly commercial paper. So, a fairly straightforward balance sheet with assets neatly balanced by liabilities.
But, of course, the value of the actual notes is only a very small proportion of the value of others things denominated in pounds sterling. As in all our bank accounts, investments, etc, etc, etc.
None of this works unless we have trust in the vague stability of the currency and, indeed, the economy. As soon as that trust goes, so does the value of so-called fiat currencies. Famous examples would be the hyper-inflation of the Weimar Republic in the 1920s, that in Argentina in the latter part of the 20th Century and Venezuela in, well, forever really.
To stop cryptocurrency from dying believers only have to pray a bit harder. Screw up the faces, clench the fists, chant the incantation more intensely with eyes shut more tightly, believe, believe, believe. You can go absolutely anywhere with a vivid imagination as we have seen, reject reality and fly free.
Whilst I understand the point you make and the humorous spirit intended there are shades of that which are equally true of traditional currency and markets.
Confidence and sentiment are what lead us in and out of recession to a large degree.
But I get also the cynicism associated with crypto which has yet to prove itself in any meaningful and tangible way in my option.
I wonder how many investors have actually made any real money ie withdrawn in cash at a profit? I suspect a few individuals have but not many. I guess we will never know for sure.
As I have said before my scepticism remains with the notion that if you lose your hard drive or get hacked your wallet is lost despite the core logic being the inherent security of the blockchain. I just cannot reconcile that.
Isn't believing in cryptocurrency akin to believing in a God? I have previously said the shockingly controversial thing that most ordinary currencies are backed up by something tangible to be the dominant friend of 'belief'. The Saudi Arabian Riyal isn't supported by the amount of coffee harvested in Saudi Arabia, that's more likely to be Brazil. The Brazilian Real isn't supported by the Oil produced there, that would be Saudi Arabia. Neither currency is supported by either prayers or mathematics as far as I can tell. We hear that bitcoins are supported by mathematical equations, something you can't drink, or put in the tank of a car to get you somewhere. To my mind it is all bollocks wrapped up in incomprehensible language to fool and excite the gullible, a bit like religion.
Well I didn’t defend crypto. I made the observation that confidence and belief are part of the traditional economy too. That was all.
Our currency is no longer backed by gold alone and relies on confidence and faith in our economic system.
Crypto does (if I understand correctly) have the underlying technology of the so called blockchain but as I said earlier we have yet to see a real and valuable application this. It’s not completely without ‘something’ but its value is not yet proven to me at least.
I agree it’s wrapped up in a language that’s incomprehensible to fool and excite and is no doubt being exploited by some. The fact also that the criminal world seemingly use it is a red flag too.
Even the system of economic activity in the UK creates something that others seem to want (like the coffee and oil), for example the UK creative industries get more foreign exchange for the UK than manufacturing. If the 'blockchain' is to have any meaning, or to be taken seriously, it needs to be demonstrated as such, however the message sent out is so obfuscated, and it is accompanied with the refrain 'you're too stupid to understand', or 'try researching it and learning about it'. How does cryptocurrency mean anything for the people who effectively live 'off grid'?
I’ve repeatedly explained to you in plain English many, many times. Many other posters have pointed out that it’s been explained to you in plain English many, many times.
Maybe it’s worth taking a break, reflecting on this and come back with a fresh mind and re read through what people have (repeatedly) explained to you in plain terms.
Straight out of the Rees Mogg Brexit playback - noice!
I'm new to the party - much obliged if can point me to these explanations.
It doesn’t mean anything to the people who live off grid Seth.
Not sure what your point is there. It is not a replacement for traditional currency.
You do know there is nothing backing the Great British Pound don’t you?
No I don't know that because there are things backing the British Pound.
*citation needed
Well, kind of. The actual folding stuff in circulation is approx. £90,000mn. For each and every one of those notes in circulation the BoE holds an equivalent sum in investments. Some Gilts but by far and away mostly commercial paper. So, a fairly straightforward balance sheet with assets neatly balanced by liabilities.
But, of course, the value of the actual notes is only a very small proportion of the value of others things denominated in pounds sterling. As in all our bank accounts, investments, etc, etc, etc.
None of this works unless we have trust in the vague stability of the currency and, indeed, the economy. As soon as that trust goes, so does the value of so-called fiat currencies. Famous examples would be the hyper-inflation of the Weimar Republic in the 1920s, that in Argentina in the latter part of the 20th Century and Venezuela in, well, forever really.
One might also had the recent mini-budget crisis of late which saw 150 basis points added to bond rates together with the immediate withdrawal of 2,000 mortgage products - about half the range on offer.
Fundamentally the markets wish to know that a nations GDP will expand enough to create credibility that interest payments for the foreseeable will be met. If that credibility becomes suspect then a risk premium is inevitably added.
Venezuela is an extreme example. More relevant examples might be the PIIGS back in 2010-12 until ECB stepped in and guaranteed ALL Euro instruments... Salvini administration 2017... and today the UK, which has no good choices for 2023!
It doesn’t mean anything to the people who live off grid Seth.
Not sure what your point is there. It is not a replacement for traditional currency.
You do know there is nothing backing the Great British Pound don’t you?
No I don't know that because there are things backing the British Pound.
*citation needed
The thing that makes me "believe" that my pound coins ultimately have value is that the British Government will accept them as payment for things they provide.
For instance, most people have to pay council tax to pay for local services and they need pounds to do this. So even if I don't have to pay council tax, someone else will want my pounds so they can pay theirs.
The minute the government starts demanding dollars or euros or bitcoin and refuses to accept pounds as payment for council tax, my bank account and coins will become absolutely worthless in an instant! But I honestly don't see this happening although I accept it is a possibility.
I don't really see any equivalent for Crypto currencies so I'm a bit more cautious about whether they will hold their value.
It doesn’t mean anything to the people who live off grid Seth.
Not sure what your point is there. It is not a replacement for traditional currency.
You do know there is nothing backing the Great British Pound don’t you?
No I don't know that because there are things backing the British Pound.
*citation needed
The thing that makes me "believe" that my pound coins ultimately have value is that the British Government will accept them as payment for things they provide.
For instance, most people have to pay council tax to pay for local services and they need pounds to do this. So even if I don't have to pay council tax, someone else will want my pounds so they can pay theirs.
The minute the government starts demanding dollars or euros or bitcoin and refuses to accept pounds as payment for council tax, my bank account and coins will become absolutely worthless in an instant! But I honestly don't see this happening although I accept it is a possibility.
I don't really see any equivalent for Crypto currencies so I'm a bit more cautious about whether they will hold their value.
This article sheds some more light on your assertion / position - when somebody mentions crypto to me I instinctively think tulips!
One can make the same case for any asset class such as shares, bonds or property. But these classes have cashflows as well as pricing variations. One can live in a property, rent it out or do it up - all with the intention of increasing value over time.
Would be pulling any crypto/cash I had with Crypto.com if anyone is holding stuff there. CRO futures went live on bitfinex today and it's being shorted to fuck.
Traders are currently paying ~2000% annualized to short
If you have any investments in Crypto, or if you're thinking about buying the dip, I think this is a good summary: The problem with this is that would-be customers and investors would have to believe that FTX was independently full of shit and not that the entire edifice of crypto investing was built out of crap in the first place. This game only works on trust, and the sudden revelation that one of the biggest firms in the world is a mirage will obviously erode whatever trust people still have in crypto after the cascading losses of the past six months.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
You need to weigh up in your own mind the likelihood of your £2,350 increasing again and what the alternative investment would be and the risk/reward on that.
Difficult one, personally I'd have cut and run long before it dropped as far as it did, but that's easy for me to say as throughout my dabbles in Crypto I never held for much longer than a week at a time.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
I think an important point is timescale too - are you going to need that money within the next year or two? As we might not see a return close to previous highs for that long.
Within the next 6 months it could be 25% lower than where we currently are, and if you need it then you'll be fuming you didn't take it out now, but if you don't need the money for a longer term, it's probably worth just leaving it as it is and waiting as I'm not sure there's any other investment or saving option that would be able to recover your money to 3x its current value in 3 to 5 years for you to recover the amount you are currently down
FYI, I am a crypto believer (and partially work in the field itself) but it is going to take a long time now for institutional investors gain trust again, only after which will retail come back in.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
I would hold it now. Things will go back up again at some point.
What do you hold it in out of interest? ie is it mostly btc, or a combo.
I've got about £2,000 in BTC and the rest over half a dozen different things. I mean Internet Computer was a disaster. That £500 is worth £30 or something daft.
Do most peeps think that Coinbase is safe? As safe can be!
As for the money, nope I don't need it and so can write it off for 5-10 years.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
I would hold it now. Things will go back up again at some point.
What do you hold it in out of interest? ie is it mostly btc, or a combo.
I've got about £2,000 in BTC and the rest over half a dozen different things. I mean Internet Computer was a disaster. That £500 is worth £30 or something daft.
Do most peeps think that Coinbase is safe? As safe can be!
As for the money, nope I don't need it and so can write it off for 5-10 years.
Is anyone here still buying??
If Coinbase isn't safe then the whole thing is f*****d i'd think, but I imagine it would be. I'm not buying right now but that's due to my personal cashflow, if I had the money right now i'd probably be looking to DCA though.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
I would hold it now. Things will go back up again at some point.
What do you hold it in out of interest? ie is it mostly btc, or a combo.
I've got about £2,000 in BTC and the rest over half a dozen different things. I mean Internet Computer was a disaster. That £500 is worth £30 or something daft.
Do most peeps think that Coinbase is safe? As safe can be!
As for the money, nope I don't need it and so can write it off for 5-10 years.
Is anyone here still buying??
I am just buying a little amount a month currently, $100 and see how we go for the next 6 months or so. I am looking at it as a bit of a bet at the moment, rather than investment.
Just took a gander at my Coinbase balance, for the first time in months. £2,350 left from a staggered £7,500 investment, beginning in February 2021 is not too healthy, But, I have the age old conundrum. Do I cut and run, or continue to wait until the gas stored in the pile of shit, is finally released and my bubble begins to rise.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
I would hold it now. Things will go back up again at some point.
What do you hold it in out of interest? ie is it mostly btc, or a combo.
I've got about £2,000 in BTC and the rest over half a dozen different things. I mean Internet Computer was a disaster. That £500 is worth £30 or something daft.
Do most peeps think that Coinbase is safe? As safe can be!
As for the money, nope I don't need it and so can write it off for 5-10 years.
Is anyone here still buying??
If Coinbase isn't safe then the whole thing is f*****d i'd think, but I imagine it would be. I'm not buying right now but that's due to my personal cashflow, if I had the money right now i'd probably be looking to DCA though.
This is what I have done, and will continue to do so. I actually got back to around parity with my 'investment' due to one of the the crypto's I invest in, QNT, however that all got wiped off with the recent FTX madness.
I’ve said before - cexs are dead. Binance will pivot to offering banking services. But it will become non custodial and on chain. Rather than using centralised exchanges. The only reason to use cex’s was futures trading, but there are now decentralised alternatives to this.
@stop_shouting Can we leave the politics for the HoC please?
How is that political?
You've not linked the correct posts @AddicksAddict. A quick glance back to p138 should sort you out.
Yep, it's about the couple of messages before that, and when I started typing my reply that particular one wasn't showing up, so it was more obvious which message it was referring to.
Crypto currencies are not regulated & therefore provide you with no protection.
Isnt it funny that people will routinely muse about making sure they dont have more than £85k in Barclays or HSBC due to the FSCS protection limit but will blindly invest their savings into crypto.
If a bank popped up offering 10% interest but had no FSCS protection I bet no one on here would put money in it.
Crypto currencies are not regulated & therefore provide you with no protection.
Isnt it funny that people will routinely muse about making sure they dont have more than £85k in Barclays or HSBC due to the FSCS protection limit but will blindly invest their savings into crypto.
If a bank popped up offering 10% interest but had no FSCS protection I bet no one on here would put money in it.
If does make me laugh how little respect there is for regulation in the world of crypto - I wonder why that is?
Comments
But, of course, the value of the actual notes is only a very small proportion of the value of others things denominated in pounds sterling. As in all our bank accounts, investments, etc, etc, etc.
None of this works unless we have trust in the vague stability of the currency and, indeed, the economy. As soon as that trust goes, so does the value of so-called fiat currencies. Famous examples would be the hyper-inflation of the Weimar Republic in the 1920s, that in Argentina in the latter part of the 20th Century and Venezuela in, well, forever really.
I'm new to the party - much obliged if can point me to these explanations.
Fundamentally the markets wish to know that a nations GDP will expand enough to create credibility that interest payments for the foreseeable will be met. If that credibility becomes suspect then a risk premium is inevitably added.
Venezuela is an extreme example. More relevant examples might be the PIIGS back in 2010-12 until ECB stepped in and guaranteed ALL Euro instruments... Salvini administration 2017... and today the UK, which has no good choices for 2023!
It really needs a hobby outside of the internet.
The first step fascists take is to dehumanise wouldn’t you agree?
You are the most easily offended it/person/he/she I’ve encountered on the internet, better to be careful.
For instance, most people have to pay council tax to pay for local services and they need pounds to do this. So even if I don't have to pay council tax, someone else will want my pounds so they can pay theirs.
The minute the government starts demanding dollars or euros or bitcoin and refuses to accept pounds as payment for council tax, my bank account and coins will become absolutely worthless in an instant! But I honestly don't see this happening although I accept it is a possibility.
I don't really see any equivalent for Crypto currencies so I'm a bit more cautious about whether they will hold their value.
One can make the same case for any asset class such as shares, bonds or property. But these classes have cashflows as well as pricing variations. One can live in a property, rent it out or do it up - all with the intention of increasing value over time.
https://www.ft.com/content/9e787670-6aa7-4479-934f-f4a9fedf4829
Traders are currently paying ~2000% annualized to short
If you have any investments in Crypto, or if you're thinking about buying the dip, I think this is a good summary:
The problem with this is that would-be customers and investors would have to believe that FTX was independently full of shit and not that the entire edifice of crypto investing was built out of crap in the first place. This game only works on trust, and the sudden revelation that one of the biggest firms in the world is a mirage will obviously erode whatever trust people still have in crypto after the cascading losses of the past six months.
As others, (in my view knowledgeable folk) have always said, "only invest what you can afford to lose." Well I did and that's where things sit. If I lose all £7,500, in a lifetime its not life changing, that said, neither is gaining that amount, which begs the question, why did I invest in the first place?
Like many other investors I am / was hoping to get more than I put in. With Crypto, I now wonder if the resurgence to previous levels will come.
A colleague had £100k+ in Crypto mainly Bitcoin a year ago and is slightly closer to retirement that me, sadly his plans may require an adjustment.
"He who dares, Rodney" is a line that makes me smile and raise an eyebrow at the same time.
https://media.tenor.com/ErqB9iicQ3MAAAAM/the-clash-should-i-stay.gif
Difficult one, personally I'd have cut and run long before it dropped as far as it did, but that's easy for me to say as throughout my dabbles in Crypto I never held for much longer than a week at a time.
Within the next 6 months it could be 25% lower than where we currently are, and if you need it then you'll be fuming you didn't take it out now, but if you don't need the money for a longer term, it's probably worth just leaving it as it is and waiting as I'm not sure there's any other investment or saving option that would be able to recover your money to 3x its current value in 3 to 5 years for you to recover the amount you are currently down
FYI, I am a crypto believer (and partially work in the field itself) but it is going to take a long time now for institutional investors gain trust again, only after which will retail come back in.
Do most peeps think that Coinbase is safe? As safe can be!
As for the money, nope I don't need it and so can write it off for 5-10 years.
Is anyone here still buying??
If you didn't only invest what you were willing to lose... That's an oopsie.
You couldn't make up the whole FTX farce...
The troubled crypto firm BlockFi has filed for bankruptcy in the US, as the dramatic collapse of FTX continues to reverberate across the industry.
The company had already halted most activity on its platform, citing "significant exposure" to FTX.
BlockFi said it was seeking court protection to restructure, settle its debts and recover money for investors.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63786201
Isnt it funny that people will routinely muse about making sure they dont have more than £85k in Barclays or HSBC due to the FSCS protection limit but will blindly invest their savings into crypto.
If a bank popped up offering 10% interest but had no FSCS protection I bet no one on here would put money in it.