Jay Rodriguez
Comments
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"The Dutchman never publicly mentioned racist abuse had been aimed at him, but the media construed his claim of 'offensive remarks' as being racist.buckshee said:
You mean like when George Boateng used it to get out of an FA charge and was found to be lying?SDAddick said:A lot of people talking about "The race card" like it's the US in the 90s.
The race card is not a thing. Racism is a thing.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11680/2248600/barmby-anger-at-racist-slur
Barmby has now reacted angrily to suggestions that he racially abused Boateng."
FAKE NEWS0 -
Doesn't sound too good for Rodriguez, that.SELR_addicks said:"He said certain things of a racist nature and I took it badly. There are things that you can let pass, but I’m a man and a man of colour. We are in 2018 and there are things we don’t let pass anymore."
He said something in reference to my colour. You see very clearly he pinched his nose in relation to what he said. I asked him to repeat it. I think at the moment he repeated it he realised what he had said."
“He wanted to limit the damage. I said no. It would be incomprehensible coming from a fan, but from a footballer who earns a very good living and is there to entertain it should be punished.”
Brighton submit Gaëtan Bong’s claim to FA that Jay Rodriguez said “you’re black and you stink.”0 -
You're becoming a parody of yourself.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.5 -
Beyond that.CAFCsayer said:
You're becoming a parody of yourself.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.0 -
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
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Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.0 -
It was Barkley, and The Sun had previously posted a story on the man's heritage, so at least one researcher there knew. The Sun cut Kelvin loose, and acted like they basically hadn't read his story, as though it skipped the sub-editing process.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.2 -
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to a gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.1 -
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.0 -
Wouldn’t worry, just wait for a ‘Jay Rodriguez wants a hard brexit’ type comment and we can close the thread.JiMMy 85 said:
It was Barkley, and The Sun had previously posted a story on the man's heritage, so at least one researcher there knew. The Sun cut Kelvin loose, and acted like they basically hadn't read his story, as though it skipped the sub-editing process.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.7 - Sponsored links:
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Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.0 -
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?randy andy said:
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.3 -
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have.Big_Bad_World said:
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
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No I am beyond parody.CAFCsayer said:
You're becoming a parody of yourself.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.0 -
No, I'm saying comparing part of x to part of y, is the same as comparing x to y. In this case the comparison was a stupid one to make and opened him up to accusations of racism that very simple research would have avoided, unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?Big_Bad_World said:
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?randy andy said:
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.0 -
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?seth plum said:
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have.Big_Bad_World said:
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.0 -
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.Big_Bad_World said:
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.4 -
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he thought of.randy andy said:
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?Big_Bad_World said:
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?randy andy said:
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?0 -
The race card is most certainly a thing, as is Racism.SDAddick said:A lot of people talking about "The race card" like it's the US in the 90s.
The race card is not a thing. Racism is a thing.
The race card however, can be used in a positive way.
It is all too often used in a negative way, this is not ideal, but will always exist.
Racism can never be right.
Racism should never be tolerated.
Racism must be removed from society. Not the word, but the behaviour.0 -
a millwall fanBig_Bad_World said:
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he though of.randy andy said:
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?Big_Bad_World said:
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?randy andy said:
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant? 4 - Sponsored links:
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I'm not vacant, I'm dead behind the eyes.Karim_myBagheri said:
a millwall fanBig_Bad_World said:
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he though of.randy andy said:
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?Big_Bad_World said:
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?randy andy said:
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.Big_Bad_World said:
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?1 -
Still can't really work out what's going on.paulie8290 said:Back to what this thread was about i have found a videofor those who havent seen it
I'm going to stick with my gut feeling though and say he's just implying/saying that Bong has bad breath, i don't think for a second he said "you’re black and you stink.”
If that video is the only evidence they have, then i don't see how anything will happen to Rodriguez.0 -
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.JiMMy 85 said:
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.Big_Bad_World said:
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.3 -
That chant's rubbish. 'Millwall' and 'Fuck em all' at least rhyme but 'black cunt' ruins the flow completely. Maybe it's some kind of Bermondsey Haiku that she was going for.seth plum said:
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have.Big_Bad_World said:
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.0 -
To clear this up. You say my connection was ludicrous but I made an effort to point out it was a personal take rather than attempting to state my connection as fact...and the context was about current events including the Trump African shitholes remarks. If you like I was tapping in to an aspect of the zeitgeist of modern times.Big_Bad_World said:
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?seth plum said:
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have.Big_Bad_World said:
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
Apologies for not being able to read your mind regarding your use of the word concrete, I was going by your words instead.0 -
What's MyFreeCams got to do with anything?Big_Bad_World said:
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong.seth plum said:Big_Bad_World said:seth plum said:0 -
It wasn't my mind that required reading. It was my obviously sarcastic in nature response.seth plum said:
To clear this up. You say my connection was ludicrous but I made an effort to point out it was a personal take rather than attempting to state my connection as fact...and the context was about current events including the Trump African shitholes remarks. If you like I was tapping in to an aspect of the zeitgeist of modern times.Big_Bad_World said:
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?seth plum said:
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have.Big_Bad_World said:
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.seth plum said:Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks.
I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon.
It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
Apologies for not being able to read your mind regarding your use of the word concrete, I was going by your words instead.
Look, you usually come across as quite a balanced individual but on this occasion I believe you to be wide of the mark and allowing emotion to cloud your reasoning. Shoe horning Trump in to this debate means you're assuming quite a lot of things. Not least Rodriguez knowing where Bong originates from and having the wherewithal, in that split second moment, to think of current political affairs and make a gesture along those lines. On television. In front of millions.0 -
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.Big_Bad_World said:
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.JiMMy 85 said:
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.Big_Bad_World said:
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen
perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.0 -
I maintain that you're actively looking for an undercurrent that isn't there, to justify trying to stigmatise people so that it closes down a debate because you feel uncomfortable discussing it.JiMMy 85 said:
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.Big_Bad_World said:
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.JiMMy 85 said:
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.Big_Bad_World said:
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen
perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
As for my 'nonsensical' line. What is nonsensical about it? You stated that 'There's a really nasty undercurrent'. Now that's a statement, not a suggestion of belief. So, unless you have access to the brains of the posters you disagree with, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain that this undercurrent exists other than in your chosen perception of what has been said.0 -
Given that I haven't told you what I think, you're making some utterly ludicrous, or at least, incredibly defensive assumptions.Big_Bad_World said:
to justify trying to stigmatise people so that it closes down a debate because you feel uncomfortable discussing it.JiMMy 85 said:
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.Big_Bad_World said:
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.JiMMy 85 said:
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.Big_Bad_World said:
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?JiMMy 85 said:
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.randy andy said:
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.Carter said:The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen
perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
As for the nonsensical part - 'your chosen perception' - what in the actual fuck are you talking about? Again, I'd like to point out that you couldn't have the foggiest idea what my perception is, let alone whether I have consciously chosen to feel that way.
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