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Charlton v Bradford 13/2/18 post-match views

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  • SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Played well. Didn't score a second despite some lovely football. Conceded from a fucking nothing lump forward, deflected cross, and Robinson gets across Solly for the goal.

    There are a lot of people on here who love being miserable who are shouting the loudest. Obviously it's frustrating, it's very frustrating, and I imagine moreso if you've spent a lot of money to go out in the rain and cold for 90 minutes. But it now seems to have gotten to the point where some take glee in misery.

    On the bright side we played very well. We've got the yips. Keep playing this way and that second goal will come and someone will get a battering.

    Bullshit. If we keep playing lovely football like this we will be playing in League 2 in a couple of year and then see where the lovely football is. To suggest people are taking glee in misery because they are f***ed off with seeing potential win after potential win squandered because we don't score when we should and don't defend effectively is just insulting, and waiting for someone to get a battering while we drop into midtable again is not a good exchange. Winning 5-0 still gets you 3 points and doesn't get back the 7 additional points we should have had from the last few games.
    Part of football, some fans are more interested in watching nice football then regularly winning, I will never understand it personally.

    Don't get me wrong, I am all for exciting attacking football but if it is not built on the foundation of a solid defence then it is meaningless.

    I would much rather win 2-0 then 4-2, although any win will do right now.
    No one is saying "I'd rather we play passing football than win or get promoted." That's a ridiculous strawman.
    I don't believe it is, I have heard many fans at our club & others over the years defend managers who play attacking football but whose teams can't defend to save their lives because the football is nice to watch.

    Not sure if you were around to hear some fans complain about the style of successful football under both Curbs & then Powell but it happened, I know as I was there.
  • se9addick said:

    I won't go into KR too much, it's all been said above to be honest.

    One thing I want to pick up on which I think is at least a major contributing factor (if not the reason) for being unable to hold a lead is the utter lack of leadership on the pitch. I think a lot of our problems stem from having no one who seems to organise or give the team shape.

    Good shout.After we scored tonight the whole team went to sleep instead of driving on for a second goal. There is not a natural leader in the squad (except Jackson and Pearce, neither of whom can get in the side through age and injury)
  • edited February 2018
    Oggy Red said:

    Scoham said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    My conclusion, we have some good players on the 'skill' front. Fosu, JFK and others. What all of them pretty much lack (and i'm including Robinson in that) is a footballing brain.

    When there is the choice of a pass or a shot we choose the wrong one, when there's two passes on we chose the wrong one. The only one who doesn't with any regularity is Da Silva.

    Thats whats costing us and stopping us from being higher, and something we can't really change.

    Add to that, Robinsons subs and their timing in particular were awful again, can anyone tell me what was our shape for the last 10 minutes?

    It's harder to make the right decisions when you're playing in front of a team sitting back. Our patient passing style gives teams time to get back and get themselves organised.

    How often do we get in behind teams?
    How many properly clear cut chances do we create?
    How many penalties do we win?
    How often do we score from set pieces?

    Maybe KR needs to sacrifice his ideal style and try something else. It would be less predictable and having the option of going more direct can create different types of chances.

    So often we're asking one of our flair players to beat 2/3 players and whip a perfect cross against out outnumbered attack, or score a wonder goal.
    I love watching passing teams with flair players - it's the beautiful game.

    But there are times when you have to mix it up; short passing and long ball, simplify and penetrate - whether you get the ball to the byeline, or just an early ball straight into the mixer and work the percentages.

    You've got to keep them guessing, wrongfoot opponents, make it difficult to defend.



    Penetration is the word Oggy. We're about as able to penetrate as Pele after a heavy night on the beers.


  • So often we're asking one of our flair players to beat 2/3 players and whip a perfect cross against out outnumbered attack, or score a wonder goal.

    We got rid of our only flair player who used to score worldies. He also got us wins that covered up our other faults.

    Holmes really has been a huge loss.
  • edited February 2018
    Oggy Red said:

    Scoham said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    My conclusion, we have some good players on the 'skill' front. Fosu, JFK and others. What all of them pretty much lack (and i'm including Robinson in that) is a footballing brain.

    When there is the choice of a pass or a shot we choose the wrong one, when there's two passes on we chose the wrong one. The only one who doesn't with any regularity is Da Silva.

    Thats whats costing us and stopping us from being higher, and something we can't really change.

    Add to that, Robinsons subs and their timing in particular were awful again, can anyone tell me what was our shape for the last 10 minutes?

    It's harder to make the right decisions when you're playing in front of a team sitting back. Our patient passing style gives teams time to get back and get themselves organised.

    How often do we get in behind teams?
    How many properly clear cut chances do we create?
    How many penalties do we win?
    How often do we score from set pieces?

    Maybe KR needs to sacrifice his ideal style and try something else. It would be less predictable and having the option of going more direct can create different types of chances.

    So often we're asking one of our flair players to beat 2/3 players and whip a perfect cross against out outnumbered attack, or score a wonder goal.
    I love watching passing teams with flair players - it's the beautiful game.

    But there are times when you have to mix it up; short passing and long ball, simplify and penetrate - whether you get the ball to the byeline, or just an early ball straight into the mixer and work the percentages.

    You've got to keep them guessing, wrongfoot opponents, make it difficult to defend.



    I agree, but week in week out we face a problem of teams either sitting very deep, or fouling us when we find some space. It's noticeable that one of maybe two counter-attacks on the night, we scored from.

    I'm curious to hear thoughts on ways we can mix it up, because I think we're at something of an impasse that a lot of technically gifted teams with better players and coaches than ours come up against--packed defenses and constant fouling.

    Definitely getting runners in behind and turning defenders. Looking to form tighter triangles in attacking areas instead of always being so spread out--which is designed to create space for dribblers but that can break down when it's 1-v-3 or Fosu is getting kicked up in the air.

    I'm not his biggest fan, but it should be noted five minutes on the pitch Ajose made two diagonal runs designed to get behind/turn the defense.
  • RedChaser said:

    Dizzle said:

    It becomes a psychological thing when you are only one goal you move towards the final stages of the game. Just as fans we are expecting the equaliser, I am sure they do too in their head. No matter what they might do to prevent it. It’s a mentality thing.

    Definitely a psychological thing I reckon the players could do with someone like Paul Mckenna to hypnotise them into a winning frame of mind to go on and claim victories rather than keep sitting back in the hope of just crawling over the line.
    We'd be better off getting Paul McKenna to hypnotise KR into being a competent manager.

    As it is, just another season of the Duchatelet era, fizzling out after occasional, and overly lauded, false dawns.
  • Ten observations:

    1. Despite a stable, full pre season, we consistently don’t look fit enough to last 90 mins
    2. We played some lovely stuff, attacking with verve and intent, until we scored. And then we changed.
    3. Dasilva is getting better and looked a class above anything else in our team. We will miss him next year
    4. On the other side, Solly is worryingly looking a shadow of the stand out player he was a few seasons ago
    5. Took much attacking play is now on Fosu’s shoulders. He’s a real box of tricks and he will make wrong decisions and frustrate, but he’s an exciting player and will be getting special attention from opposition.
    6. Pleased for Magennis, I’d still rather see him with a partner playing off him in a two
    7. I’d pick one from Kashi / Forster-Caskey. If Jake is not getting in the box and chipping in with shots / goals, there is not enough variation there.
    8. Kaikai looked decent, and seemed to link well with Fosu. We need End product with this inter-play stuff though
    9. I’m happier with Bauer in the back four. I’d be even happier with Pearce there
    10. RobInson needs the team to finish the season strongly to stand a chance of saving his job. We are not currently a team getting better, and we need to be.

    Re, points 3 and 4 - are you essentially saying that Jay Dasilva is feeding on Chris Solly's soul?
  • edited February 2018

    SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Played well. Didn't score a second despite some lovely football. Conceded from a fucking nothing lump forward, deflected cross, and Robinson gets across Solly for the goal.

    There are a lot of people on here who love being miserable who are shouting the loudest. Obviously it's frustrating, it's very frustrating, and I imagine moreso if you've spent a lot of money to go out in the rain and cold for 90 minutes. But it now seems to have gotten to the point where some take glee in misery.

    On the bright side we played very well. We've got the yips. Keep playing this way and that second goal will come and someone will get a battering.

    Bullshit. If we keep playing lovely football like this we will be playing in League 2 in a couple of year and then see where the lovely football is. To suggest people are taking glee in misery because they are f***ed off with seeing potential win after potential win squandered because we don't score when we should and don't defend effectively is just insulting, and waiting for someone to get a battering while we drop into midtable again is not a good exchange. Winning 5-0 still gets you 3 points and doesn't get back the 7 additional points we should have had from the last few games.
    Part of football, some fans are more interested in watching nice football then regularly winning, I will never understand it personally.

    Don't get me wrong, I am all for exciting attacking football but if it is not built on the foundation of a solid defence then it is meaningless.

    I would much rather win 2-0 then 4-2, although any win will do right now.
    No one is saying "I'd rather we play passing football than win or get promoted." That's a ridiculous strawman.
    I don't believe it is, I have heard many fans at our club & others over the years defend managers who play attacking football but whose teams can't defend to save their lives because the football is nice to watch.

    Not sure if you were around to hear some fans complain about the style of successful football under both Curbs & then Powell but it happened, I know as I was there.
    Fair point historically. Perhaps I misread your comment, I was not advocating playing good football over winning or getting promoted.
  • Fumbluff said:

    So yeah, Fosu is quite good. The rest of them aren’t...

    I feel bad for that, DaSilva is good too...
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  • edited February 2018
    se9addick said:

    Ten observations:

    1. Despite a stable, full pre season, we consistently don’t look fit enough to last 90 mins
    2. We played some lovely stuff, attacking with verve and intent, until we scored. And then we changed.
    3. Dasilva is getting better and looked a class above anything else in our team. We will miss him next year
    4. On the other side, Solly is worryingly looking a shadow of the stand out player he was a few seasons ago
    5. Took much attacking play is now on Fosu’s shoulders. He’s a real box of tricks and he will make wrong decisions and frustrate, but he’s an exciting player and will be getting special attention from opposition.
    6. Pleased for Magennis, I’d still rather see him with a partner playing off him in a two
    7. I’d pick one from Kashi / Forster-Caskey. If Jake is not getting in the box and chipping in with shots / goals, there is not enough variation there.
    8. Kaikai looked decent, and seemed to link well with Fosu. We need End product with this inter-play stuff though
    9. I’m happier with Bauer in the back four. I’d be even happier with Pearce there
    10. RobInson needs the team to finish the season strongly to stand a chance of saving his job. We are not currently a team getting better, and we need to be.

    Re, points 3 and 4 - are you essentially saying that Jay Dasilva is feeding on Chris Solly's soul?
    Comment of the night.

    But also, his 1-v-1 defending is definitely Solly-esque.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uDhwFU9unc
  • I'm not sure why we can't see out games despite being the better side in almost all of them - and I don't have any evidence that anyone here knows either.

    I thought we were excellent for the first 25 minutes and I was delighted that we had a goal to show for it. But we are unable to keep up our possession game, then are unable to compete physically. That said, I'm not sure anyone in particular had a bad game.

    Fosu was superb and Bauer was excellent at the back. Thought Magennis looked more confident too.

    I was worried that Robbo was going to bring on Aribo and Zyro early in the second half, both of whom I hold response for our defeat to Oxford for lack of effort. Fortunately he only brought Zyro on who again looked disinterested.

    I think we'll beat the MK Dons at the weekend comfortably and hopefully that will shut up the fools on here who unfortunately have discovered fire and the internet and who want Robbo out.
  • pwr - been supporting robbo but tonight is the turning point.

    1) He puts all his pace on from the off, saving no second half hit them on the break option - basic stuff
    2) He stands there and changes nothing even though from as soon as we scored, we lost momentum and they came into it more and more.
    3) Foster caskey - what does he add? Goes through the motions for me - neat and tidy but no real impact. Crying out to be swopped for Aribo after 50 minutes as we got over run.
    4) The fosu's, kai kai's and mavidivis are crying out for a striker who can come short and link up with them and play them in - this is key and if zyro isn't that man then we have another unbalanced squad - like england, all wingers, workers and no guile

    Robinson is being found wanting now and the players need him to make the right changes at the right times in order for them to be able to do their jobs as managers are looking at us and after 20 minutes, nullifying us and getting stronger whilst we go backwards - a regular pattern and that is definitely down to the management.

  • SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Played well. Didn't score a second despite some lovely football. Conceded from a fucking nothing lump forward, deflected cross, and Robinson gets across Solly for the goal.

    There are a lot of people on here who love being miserable who are shouting the loudest. Obviously it's frustrating, it's very frustrating, and I imagine moreso if you've spent a lot of money to go out in the rain and cold for 90 minutes. But it now seems to have gotten to the point where some take glee in misery.

    On the bright side we played very well. We've got the yips. Keep playing this way and that second goal will come and someone will get a battering.

    Bullshit. If we keep playing lovely football like this we will be playing in League 2 in a couple of year and then see where the lovely football is. To suggest people are taking glee in misery because they are f***ed off with seeing potential win after potential win squandered because we don't score when we should and don't defend effectively is just insulting, and waiting for someone to get a battering while we drop into midtable again is not a good exchange. Winning 5-0 still gets you 3 points and doesn't get back the 7 additional points we should have had from the last few games.
    Part of football, some fans are more interested in watching nice football then regularly winning, I will never understand it personally.

    Don't get me wrong, I am all for exciting attacking football but if it is not built on the foundation of a solid defence then it is meaningless.

    I would much rather win 2-0 then 4-2, although any win will do right now.
    No one is saying "I'd rather we play passing football than win or get promoted." That's a ridiculous strawman.
    I don't believe it is, I have heard many fans at our club & others over the years defend managers who play attacking football but whose teams can't defend to save their lives because the football is nice to watch.

    Not sure if you were around to hear some fans complain about the style of successful football under both Curbs & then Powell but it happened, I know as I was there.
    Fair point historically. Perhaps I misread your comment, I was not advocating playing good football over winning or getting promoted.
    It is clear that I am not Robinson's biggest fan, I think Charlton(until Roland bought us) deserve better then a man of his style but putting that to the side, my issue is that his nice football built on a foundation of sand is putting our chances of promotion in what is a weak League 1(compared to the Parkinson/Powell years) at risk, so I want him gone and replaced with Jackson & Bowyer for the rest of the season, as I believe their more pragmatic approach will get us comfortably in to the Play-offs with a chance to get out of this poxy league this season.

    My apologies if I came across snarky though, it has been a long day. :-)
  • SDAddick said:

    Oggy Red said:

    Scoham said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    My conclusion, we have some good players on the 'skill' front. Fosu, JFK and others. What all of them pretty much lack (and i'm including Robinson in that) is a footballing brain.

    When there is the choice of a pass or a shot we choose the wrong one, when there's two passes on we chose the wrong one. The only one who doesn't with any regularity is Da Silva.

    Thats whats costing us and stopping us from being higher, and something we can't really change.

    Add to that, Robinsons subs and their timing in particular were awful again, can anyone tell me what was our shape for the last 10 minutes?

    It's harder to make the right decisions when you're playing in front of a team sitting back. Our patient passing style gives teams time to get back and get themselves organised.

    How often do we get in behind teams?
    How many properly clear cut chances do we create?
    How many penalties do we win?
    How often do we score from set pieces?

    Maybe KR needs to sacrifice his ideal style and try something else. It would be less predictable and having the option of going more direct can create different types of chances.

    So often we're asking one of our flair players to beat 2/3 players and whip a perfect cross against out outnumbered attack, or score a wonder goal.
    I love watching passing teams with flair players - it's the beautiful game.

    But there are times when you have to mix it up; short passing and long ball, simplify and penetrate - whether you get the ball to the byeline, or just an early ball straight into the mixer and work the percentages.

    You've got to keep them guessing, wrongfoot opponents, make it difficult to defend.



    I agree, but week in week out we face a problem of teams either sitting very deep, or fouling us when we find some space. It's noticeable that one of maybe two counter-attacks on the night, we scored from.

    I'm curious to hear thoughts on ways we can mix it up, because I think we're at something of an impasse that a lot of technically gifted teams with better players and coaches than ours come up against--packed defenses and constant fouling.

    Definitely getting runners in behind and turning defenders. Looking to form tighter triangles in attacking areas instead of always being so spread out--which is designed to create space for dribblers but that can break down when it's 1-v-3 or Fosu is getting kicked up in the air.

    I'm not his biggest fan, but it should be noted five minutes on the pitch Ajose made two diagonal runs designed to get behind/turn the defense.
    Stop dribbling for dribbling' sake. The ability of players like Fosu to carry the ball from defence to attack is great, but once in attack they should have only one thing on their mind, create an angle for a pass/cross or shot, as soon as they have made that half yard they need to release the ball. Stop taking just one more touch, all it tends to do is allow defenders to close down, markup or make a tackle.

    More runs made in behind and more through balls.

    Perhaps try a 433 formation, bringing Aribo into the middle and playing Fosu and Kaikai either side, but much closer to, Magennis.
  • Frustrating. We need to string a few results together, but just can't get games over the line.

    The first half we were completely on top and played some really nice stuff at times, but in the way Arsenal sometimes play, lovely football without enough end product, and at the back we always looked outmuscled

    In the second half they changed things and had the better of things of the for the next 35 minutes until their equaliser as we faded. Our defence never looked entirely secure, and were poor at clearing their lines, so the goal wasn't a surprise really

    Fosu got greedier and greedier as the game went on, he's got massive talent but needs strong leadership. After moaning for 4 months about Aribo not being in the team, once again he's in the wilderness. He should have been on with 25 minutes to go, we desperately needed some fresh legs.

    On the positive side, Josh played well again, JDS was excellent going forward and Ajose was surprisingly lively when he came on, the Bradford Bulls would have been proud of one of the tackles on him!
  • edited February 2018

    Not playing aribo is becoming baffling

    I don't understand why people find this difficult. Robinson does not trust him and nor do I.

    He only gets involved when we've got momentum and when were under the kosh he hides away. He never tracks back and turns us into a ten man team.

    He's obviously a good player but definitely a liability.
    I think that's a little harsh, I think he matured a lot during his run in the team and has gotten better at some of those things. But I agree that he drifts in and out of games and that he is not positionally sound yet.

    Also, for most of the night we weren't missing someone who could run at teams and try to beat them with the ball at his feet. As a substitution after the goal, not a bad shout, or maybe as a change for Kaiaki and play him somewhere in the attacking three. But I don't think he was the answer when we were 1-0 ahead.
  • @AFKABartram

    10/10 for me there.

    Also bonus for not writing off Zyro on the basis of a 6 minute cameo in a late panic.
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  • Not playing aribo is becoming baffling

    I don't understand why people find this difficult. Robinson does not trust him and nor do I.

    He only gets involved when we've got momentum and when were under the kosh he hides away. He never tracks back and turns us into a ten man team.

    He's obviously a good player but definitely a liability.
    Not true. He was excellent in the point we battled for away at Wigan.
  • edited February 2018

    SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Played well. Didn't score a second despite some lovely football. Conceded from a fucking nothing lump forward, deflected cross, and Robinson gets across Solly for the goal.

    There are a lot of people on here who love being miserable who are shouting the loudest. Obviously it's frustrating, it's very frustrating, and I imagine moreso if you've spent a lot of money to go out in the rain and cold for 90 minutes. But it now seems to have gotten to the point where some take glee in misery.

    On the bright side we played very well. We've got the yips. Keep playing this way and that second goal will come and someone will get a battering.

    Bullshit. If we keep playing lovely football like this we will be playing in League 2 in a couple of year and then see where the lovely football is. To suggest people are taking glee in misery because they are f***ed off with seeing potential win after potential win squandered because we don't score when we should and don't defend effectively is just insulting, and waiting for someone to get a battering while we drop into midtable again is not a good exchange. Winning 5-0 still gets you 3 points and doesn't get back the 7 additional points we should have had from the last few games.
    Part of football, some fans are more interested in watching nice football then regularly winning, I will never understand it personally.

    Don't get me wrong, I am all for exciting attacking football but if it is not built on the foundation of a solid defence then it is meaningless.

    I would much rather win 2-0 then 4-2, although any win will do right now.
    No one is saying "I'd rather we play passing football than win or get promoted." That's a ridiculous strawman.
    I don't believe it is, I have heard many fans at our club & others over the years defend managers who play attacking football but whose teams can't defend to save their lives because the football is nice to watch.

    Not sure if you were around to hear some fans complain about the style of successful football under both Curbs & then Powell but it happened, I know as I was there.
    Fair point historically. Perhaps I misread your comment, I was not advocating playing good football over winning or getting promoted.
    It is clear that I am not Robinson's biggest fan, I think Charlton(until Roland bought us) deserve better then a man of his style but putting that to the side, my issue is that his nice football built on a foundation of sand is putting our chances of promotion in what is a weak League 1(compared to the Parkinson/Powell years) at risk, so I want him gone and replaced with Jackson & Bowyer for the rest of the season, as I believe their more pragmatic approach will get us comfortably in to the Play-offs with a chance to get out of this poxy league this season.

    My apologies if I came across snarky though, it has been a long day. :-)
    Nah you're alright, hope you get some sleep as it's fucking late over there. I don't agree with you re: Jackson and Bowyer, I think they desperately lack experience and neither strikes me as having great tactical chops, but overall I take your point regarding style.
  • No Killer instinct! First 30 mins this evening we must have had 80% possession. One up but bar that just one other shot on target and hitting the post.

    Half time and it does not take a trained chimp to work out how to play against us. One sub and Bradford are in the match.

    More pretty tippy tappy up until the 18 yard box and we fall apart. Bradford hit the bar, and after their goal should have won it.

    The formation we play has no minerals about it, and that comes down to the current incumbent in charge.

    You only have to be a scout to watch us play just once, because it's the same predictable nonsense game in game out
  • Bradford are a bunch of fucking animals
  • @AFKABartram

    10/10 for me there.

    Also bonus for not writing off Zyro on the basis of a 6 minute cameo in a late panic.

    I’m actually with Seth tbh. He looked WAY off the pace. His first action saw him pass straight to their player which led them to be 80 yards up the pitch 5 seconds later. Considering he gave it away you could have got the bus from The Valley to Selhurst Park on a Saturday lunchtime quicker than it took him to lumber back.

    Also gave it away again cheaply shortly after.

    Not writing him off but seen nothing yet to suggest a positive addition to our squad.
  • DOUCHER said:

    pwr - been supporting robbo but tonight is the turning point.

    1) He puts all his pace on from the off, saving no second half hit them on the break option - basic stuff
    2) He stands there and changes nothing even though from as soon as we scored, we lost momentum and they came into it more and more.
    3) Foster caskey - what does he add? Goes through the motions for me - neat and tidy but no real impact. Crying out to be swopped for Aribo after 50 minutes as we got over run.
    4) The fosu's, kai kai's and mavidivis are crying out for a striker who can come short and link up with them and play them in - this is key and if zyro isn't that man then we have another unbalanced squad - like england, all wingers, workers and no guile

    Robinson is being found wanting now and the players need him to make the right changes at the right times in order for them to be able to do their jobs as managers are looking at us and after 20 minutes, nullifying us and getting stronger whilst we go backwards - a regular pattern and that is definitely down to the management.

    Absolutely bang on about Forster-Caskey. He tries the intricate passing stuff that invariably gets intercepted by an opponent. When he goes for the long ball he overhits it. Both happened on numerous occasions tonight. Outside of that, he just seems to amble around, try the odd cruyff turn or flick, and simply do very little quite frankly.
  • @AFKABartram

    10/10 for me there.

    Also bonus for not writing off Zyro on the basis of a 6 minute cameo in a late panic.

    Second this (both @AFKA's post being excellent and that we should write Zyro off).
  • Well that was disappointing. I agree with Robo that the refs needed to give Fosu in particular more protection - he was destroyed tonight, they tried to foul him pretty much each time he got the ball. How their defender was not sent off in the second half I don’t know.

    Some of the football was better than anything I have seen for a few years and worthy of the entry fee but as always we don’t seem to kill teams off and on scoring everything changed.

    The defence looks very brittle at the moment too and we don’t look like getting a clean sheet.

    Play offs are still there and achievable then anything can happen.

    Come on you reds.
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