The Times usually have the inside info on selection and this is their squad:
Root Burns Jennings Denly Ali Bairstow Stokes Buttler Curran (S) Rashid Broad Anderson Woakes Leach Stone Plus Pope if 16 are selected
That sounds right to me. Denly's bowling is useful enough these days to be a genuine spin option, and his batting is clearly much better than that of say Bess
The times is probably right but I don't agree with a couple of the picks.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
The times is probably right but I don't agree with a couple of the picks.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
Batting in Sri Lanka is a lot different to batting at home or in Australia
For example Moeen seems set to play Number 3 in Sri Lanka, which he surely won't do next summer. With Root at 4 you could have Denly at 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7 and Bairstow 8! Or some other permutation. Rashid 9, Broad 10, Anderson 11?
The times is probably right but I don't agree with a couple of the picks.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
Batting in Sri Lanka is a lot different to batting at home or in Australia
For example Moeen seems set to play Number 3 in Sri Lanka, which he surely won't do next summer. With Root at 4 you could have Denly at 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7 and Bairstow 8! Or some other permutation. Rashid 9, Broad 10, Anderson 11?
I think Sam Curran will play, I think he's batting will get better, and I love he's attitude
The times is probably right but I don't agree with a couple of the picks.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
Batting in Sri Lanka is a lot different to batting at home or in Australia
For example Moeen seems set to play Number 3 in Sri Lanka, which he surely won't do next summer. With Root at 4 you could have Denly at 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7 and Bairstow 8! Or some other permutation. Rashid 9, Broad 10, Anderson 11?
You're pushing Buttler the wrong way, he should be going in at 5 not 7 now.
I dont get the clamour for Denly - he only averaged 36 this season - in Div 2 ! -both Bell and Trott had averages in the fifties and Denly is not much younger than them. Unless its for his part-time spin, biut we already have one in Root.
The times is probably right but I don't agree with a couple of the picks.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
Batting in Sri Lanka is a lot different to batting at home or in Australia
For example Moeen seems set to play Number 3 in Sri Lanka, which he surely won't do next summer. With Root at 4 you could have Denly at 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7 and Bairstow 8! Or some other permutation. Rashid 9, Broad 10, Anderson 11?
You're pushing Buttler the wrong way, he should be going in at 5 not 7 now.
I dont get the clamour for Denly - he only averaged 36 this season - in Div 2 ! - Unless its for his part-time spin, biut we already have one in Root.
That's 36 playing on rubbish Div 2 pitches, Canterbury for one has not been a batting surface at all. His bowling has progressed to be more than part time, Kent regularly play him as their only spinner.
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
I think Porter is seen as the new Jimmy. Brown needs to be careful he isn't the new Jade Dernbach.
Agree that Parkinson looks a prospect, but I think it's to early for him. What a crying shame no-one is talking about Mason Craine!
Somehow the managment have been backed into a situation where they HAVE to bat Root, Bairstow, Stokes and Butler at 4, 5,6 and 7. Fast becoming the cricket equivalent of the "golden generation".
I assume Jennings and Burns will open.
Ali plays so has to bat at either 3 or 8, seems bazaar!
Leaves room for your 4 bowlers, horses for courses, as you already have Ali and Stokes in the team for Sri Lanker I want a leg spinner, a sla and my best to seemers.
Not sure how you get Curran, Woakes or Denly in, if Jimmy and Broad want to and can play.
I think Porter is seen as the new Jimmy. Brown needs to be careful he isn't the new Jade Dernbach.
Agree that Parkinson looks a prospect, but I think it's to early for him. What a crying shame no-one is talking about Mason Craine!
Somehow the managment have been backed into a situation where they HAVE to bat Root, Bairstow, Stokes and Butler at 4, 5,6 and 7. Fast becoming the cricket equivalent of the "golden generation".
I assume Jennings and Burns will open.
Ali plays so has to bat at either 3 or 8, seems bazaar!
Leaves room for your 4 bowlers, horses for courses, as you already have Ali and Stokes in the team for Sri Lanker I want a leg spinner, a sla and my best to seemers.
Not sure how you get Curran, Woakes or Denly in, if Jimmy and Broad want to and can play.
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
They have already picked the one day squad, Patrick Brown was not included, but Olly Stone was
I think Porter is seen as the new Jimmy. Brown needs to be careful he isn't the new Jade Dernbach.
Agree that Parkinson looks a prospect, but I think it's to early for him. What a crying shame no-one is talking about Mason Craine!
Somehow the managment have been backed into a situation where they HAVE to bat Root, Bairstow, Stokes and Butler at 4, 5,6 and 7. Fast becoming the cricket equivalent of the "golden generation".
I assume Jennings and Burns will open.
Ali plays so has to bat at either 3 or 8, seems bazaar!
Leaves room for your 4 bowlers, horses for courses, as you already have Ali and Stokes in the team for Sri Lanker I want a leg spinner, a sla and my best to seemers.
Not sure how you get Curran, Woakes or Denly in, if Jimmy and Broad want to and can play.
Crane is injured (and was called up far too early anyway). Bess has hardly played in recent weeks
Leach is a certainty for the squad I imagine, things might have been different this summer if he hadn't been injured at the wrong time
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
Brown the replacement for Jimmy?! Absolutely no way. Brown is thoroughly geared towards limited-overs variations and doesn't have the accuracy, pace or swing of Anderson
@killerandflash Bess played against lancs the other week, was part of the suicide collapse.
That was my point about Crane, hardly played when he was fit, that's the problem with April and September 4 day cricket.
Looking at the average, Leach has 29 wickets at 25. Bess has 11 wickets at 55
In that Lancs match at Cyderabad, Leach got 12 wickets, Bess none! That certainly suggests that Leach is very good in favourable conditions, which Sri Lanka will be.
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
Brown the replacement for Jimmy?! Absolutely no way. Brown is thoroughly geared towards limited-overs variations and doesn't have the accuracy, pace or swing of Anderson
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
Brown the replacement for Jimmy?! Absolutely no way. Brown is thoroughly geared towards limited-overs variations and doesn't have the accuracy, pace or swing of Anderson
And don't forget his spell of 10 overs for 12 runs in an ODI against Australia, in Australia, when he was that age. Obviously wasn't the finished article but had all the tools
Will we need 4 seamers in Sri Lanka? Surely a 3rd spinner would be more useful.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
May be right re seamers, however, i remember SA some 15 years ago when Donald was still playing took no spinners to India beacuse they didnt feel they had anyone of sufficient quality in the spin department - and they still won the series- it would also mean dropping maybe the likes of Broad as Sam seems to have cemented his place now. Cant see Woakes 'easily' getting his place back tbh in the short term.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
Brown the replacement for Jimmy?! Absolutely no way. Brown is thoroughly geared towards limited-overs variations and doesn't have the accuracy, pace or swing of Anderson
Yet.
Jimmy only had pace at PB's age.
Nah, he swung it round corners
From BBC's James Anderson, the story....
"Anderson broke into the Lancashire first team in the early 2000s. Warren Hegg was the veteran wicketkeeper with the best view in the house.
"He was very raw and had real pace," remembers Hegg. "Even though that came with a slight lack of direction, the potential was there to bowl seriously quick. I've kept to some very quick bowlers in my time and, in his younger days, Jimmy was right up there with the quickest.
"In the early days he relied on that pace and his natural ability to take the ball away from the right-hander - it was later that he cut it back and learned to swing the ball both ways with control.
"We had open net sessions in the middle at Old Trafford and he was a real handful to the senior players, who were used to facing quick bowlers. I was hit on the toes on numerous occasions from his yorkers because, even in practice, Jimmy was aggressive.
"In his first season, when I was captain, he could take wickets on flat pitches. We were playing against Somerset at Blackpool on a very docile wicket and Jimmy took six wickets in the first innings and nine in the match. If you can bowl quickly at Blackpool, you can bowl quickly anywhere."
From my recollection of his early days, it was mainly his pace - his immaculate control and ability to swing it both ways came as he developed his action and experience and became the bowler he is now.
cant see what big deal is for Denly ..hes not a test class bat and not a test class bowler .We are getting a bit carried away with 20/20 or one day players and mistaking them for Test match Players ...they are almost 2 different games and becoming more and more different as the years go by
You would pick Denly ahead of Rashid as a specialist leg spinner?
Depends which Rashid turns up on the day.
I've always thought him to be a talented player but of late his attitude seems to have been questionable at times.
All leggys are prone to bowl a 'four' ball and Denly would be no different I'm sure at test level. However he does seem to have a knack for taking wickets and, given England's liking for batting collapses, I'd put Denly above Rashid as a batter and fielder for that matter.
Rashid probably deserves the nod at the moment but competition will do him no harm and might even galvanise him to produce the form we know he is capable of.
You would pick Denly ahead of Rashid as a specialist leg spinner?
Depends which Rashid turns up on the day.
I've always thought him to be a talented player but of late his attitude seems to have been questionable at times.
All leggys are prone to bowl a 'four' ball and Denly would be no different I'm sure at test level. However he does seem to have a knack for taking wickets and, given England's liking for batting collapses, I'd put Denly above Rashid as a batter and fielder for that matter.
Rashid probably deserves the nod at the moment but competition will do him no harm and might even galvanise him to produce the form we know he is capable of.
In Sri Lanka we could easily play 3 spinners. Looking back at the last tour we played there, in the 1st Test we played 3 spinners, in the 2nd 2 spinners. Samit Patel played both Tests as a spinning all rounder (round being an appropriate phrase!).
Comments
Root
Burns
Jennings
Denly
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curran (S)
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Woakes
Leach
Stone
Plus Pope if 16 are selected
Jennings
Burns
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Butler
Stokes
Curran
Ali
Rashid
Leach
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Overton
Stone
First test
Burns
Jennings
Ali
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Rasid
Broad
Leach
Anderson
The irony is that Jennings bowling could keep him in the team.
Denly isn't good enough to bat in the top 3, if he isn't 1 of the 3 spinners. I would think they would go with an os, sla and ls as the 3 options. Is Denly as good a bowler as Rashid? Pope is a better choice batting cover for Bairstow and Butler, we don't have cover for Root.
Second 1 is Woakes, if your playing 3 spinners I don't see how you get 2 of Stokes, Curran and Woakes in the team. So it's take 2, play 1. It's Woakes that misses out for me.
For example Moeen seems set to play Number 3 in Sri Lanka, which he surely won't do next summer. With Root at 4 you could have Denly at 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7 and Bairstow 8! Or some other permutation. Rashid 9, Broad 10, Anderson 11?
I dont get the clamour for Denly - he only averaged 36 this season - in Div 2 ! -both Bell and Trott had averages in the fifties and Denly is not much younger than them. Unless its for his part-time spin, biut we already have one in Root.
Parkinson is very promising, but England do seem to have got into a habit of picking spinners too early.
I just think that Parkinson is the real deal, and a spin friendly location might really help him improve- and ultimately a better bowler than Rashid.
One interesting option may be Patrick Brown for the white ball stuff (i assume there is some) - thought he bowled quite beautifully on Finals day, and could ultimately be the replacement for Jimmy.
I think Porter is seen as the new Jimmy. Brown needs to be careful he isn't the new Jade Dernbach.
Agree that Parkinson looks a prospect, but I think it's to early for him. What a crying shame no-one is talking about Mason Craine!
Somehow the managment have been backed into a situation where they HAVE to bat Root, Bairstow, Stokes and Butler at 4, 5,6 and 7. Fast becoming the cricket equivalent of the "golden generation".
I assume Jennings and Burns will open.
Ali plays so has to bat at either 3 or 8, seems bazaar!
Leaves room for your 4 bowlers, horses for courses, as you already have Ali and Stokes in the team for Sri Lanker I want a leg spinner, a sla and my best to seemers.
Not sure how you get Curran, Woakes or Denly in, if Jimmy and Broad want to and can play.
Leach is a certainty for the squad I imagine, things might have been different this summer if he hadn't been injured at the wrong time
That was my point about Crane, hardly played when he was fit, that's the problem with April and September 4 day cricket.
In that Lancs match at Cyderabad, Leach got 12 wickets, Bess none! That certainly suggests that Leach is very good in favourable conditions, which Sri Lanka will be.
Jimmy only had pace at PB's age.
"Anderson broke into the Lancashire first team in the early 2000s. Warren Hegg was the veteran wicketkeeper with the best view in the house.
"He was very raw and had real pace," remembers Hegg. "Even though that came with a slight lack of direction, the potential was there to bowl seriously quick. I've kept to some very quick bowlers in my time and, in his younger days, Jimmy was right up there with the quickest.
"In the early days he relied on that pace and his natural ability to take the ball away from the right-hander - it was later that he cut it back and learned to swing the ball both ways with control.
"We had open net sessions in the middle at Old Trafford and he was a real handful to the senior players, who were used to facing quick bowlers. I was hit on the toes on numerous occasions from his yorkers because, even in practice, Jimmy was aggressive.
"In his first season, when I was captain, he could take wickets on flat pitches. We were playing against Somerset at Blackpool on a very docile wicket and Jimmy took six wickets in the first innings and nine in the match. If you can bowl quickly at Blackpool, you can bowl quickly anywhere."
From my recollection of his early days, it was mainly his pace - his immaculate control and ability to swing it both ways came as he developed his action and experience and became the bowler he is now.
cant see what big deal is for Denly ..hes not a test class bat and not a test class bowler .We are getting a bit carried away with 20/20 or one day players and mistaking them for Test match Players ...they are almost 2 different games and becoming more and more different as the years go by
Here’s his Test debut. Five wickets, most of them due to swinging the ball away from the right hander.
I've always thought him to be a talented player but of late his attitude seems to have been questionable at times.
All leggys are prone to bowl a 'four' ball and Denly would be no different I'm sure at test level. However he does seem to have a knack for taking wickets and, given England's liking for batting collapses, I'd put Denly above Rashid as a batter and fielder for that matter.
Rashid probably deserves the nod at the moment but competition will do him no harm and might even galvanise him to produce the form we know he is capable of.
In Sri Lanka we could easily play 3 spinners. Looking back at the last tour we played there, in the 1st Test we played 3 spinners, in the 2nd 2 spinners. Samit Patel played both Tests as a spinning all rounder (round being an appropriate phrase!).