I would rather play Japan next than Colombia, but we should be able to beat both in all honesty. You do have to look beyond the next round. Brazil are the most dangerous team left in the tournament - we can't play them until the final!
One of Two scenarios are going to play out next week. Either we beat Columbia on Tuesday, or Southgate will turn out to have been Scottish all along on Wednesday.
The performance tonight was a bit disappointing though, very few of that team made a case for playing on Tuesday, including Pickford it has to be said. By contrast Martinez has quite a few selections issues, with the likes of Dembele playing really well, Fellaini being a massive handful - imagine him against the Japanese - and Kompany playing his first minutes.
Not much point in judging the players performance on a game like that. The only thing I am worried about is if we don’t tun up against Colômbia because we all know what happened against Iceland.
Already talking about a route to the final, and talking about Colombia likes it's already won
We are the Sheffield Wednesday of international fans
There’s a total arrogance about it , so annoying it’s like people forget we have not been any good since 66 and was ok in 90 and 96 that’s it
The rest of the time we have been proper shite
But this is not the rest of the time, this is now. We won our first two games and qualified for the next round with a game to spare. If you can't get excited about that then why bother even following the tournament? Tonight was a very strange situation and I think you can forget it, the circumstances were exceptionally unusual. Yes I wanted us to win but without doubt the route we have now is the prefered one. I was looking at our route to the final as soon as the draw was done months ago. It's natural to try and see how you will get on and who you may come up against if you proceed. It's not as if you play your games and then at the end if you've won you say "Right, who have we got next?" This is the World Cup for goodness sake, it only comes along every four years and in my time we didn't even qualify for 3 of them! This is also a bloody good WC too and from the manager down to the coach driver we have the most harmonious and least arrogant Team England I can remember. As for '90 and '96 we were only any good at the end of those tournaments, even the first half against The Netherlands in '96 we were totally outplayed. Of course it's better to peak later rather than too soon but I am quite satisfied with our group games and I think we will go on and at least reach the semis. As for no good since '66 well I think it is generally accepted that we were actually a much better team in 1970 by those who were around. I was, but only 5 years old. Enjoy the ride everyone, get excited about Tuesday and already think about where you are going to watch the 1/4, the semi and the final!
We should never have lost the QF to Germany 2-3 in 1970 Banks was injured / i'll, Bometti(Chelsea)i wasn't in the same class and fluffed his lines. Labone (CH Everton) aslo couldn't handle Uwe Seeler and Gerd Muller in the air who were about 5'9'' and out jumped him. Plus Bobby Charlton was inexplicably subbed at 2-0 up IIRC.
The squad on paper was widely felt to be stronger and better than that which won the cup 4 years earlier and was the comp where Banks made his wonder save from Pele and Moore was outstanding winning tackles off Brazilian players like taking candy from babies. Sadly you don't win games on paper.
We should never have lost to Germany 2-3 in 1970 Banks was injured / Ill Bonnetti (Chelsea)i wasn't in the same class and fluffed his lines. Labone (CH Everton) aslo couldn't handle Uwe Seeler and Gerd Muller in the air who were about 5'9'' and out jumped him. Plus Bobby Charlton was inexplicably subbed at 2-0 up IIRC.
Today's results mean that there is no real advantage to finishing 1st or 2nd. I believe that is a good thing and that tonight's game will be a proper match.
Played by 2 reserve sides not tackling each other.
Not much point in judging the players performance on a game like that. The only thing I am worried about is if we don’t tun up against Colômbia because we all know what happened against Iceland.
This 100%
It is difficult to know if Southgate made the right call or not - he has basically made a gamble on beating Columbia, and the rested players here feeling the benefit further down the track.
Having seen a lot of Japan over the years, I think we would have beaten them comfortably, as they play a lot of tippy tappy stuff without really going anywhere.Columbia on the other had are going to be a real handful, and have some top class players in some of the best leagues around Europe.
The most disappointing things from England, was that all of those fringe players (apart from Danny Rose whom I would keep in the side), did nothing to warrant further selection.
Dier was terrible and it is hard to believe that we don't have a better option than him as a defensive midfielder, Rashford is like a slightly more upmarket version of Kim Grant in that he looks good coming off the bench and getting a few goals, but then when he starts he looks pretty ordinary and lacklustre.
Alexander-Arnold played too deep and his dead ball delivery was woeful, Fabian Delph ticks over but doesn't really influence the game and I am still trying to work out what Loftus Cheek is actually any good at?
Drunkk Thought we got Japan in the last 16 and I've been telling all ang sundry what a good draw it is for uss and how we're going to smash the Japs. Not 1 person pulled me up. Ong it. Barstewarrds!!
Very pissed off indeed, this is a World Cup match not a friendly and I don't like to see us put out half-arsed sides and lose matches.
If Belgium want to rest everyone then fine, let them do what they want, but we should have played our proper team and gone all out to win the game and further build confidence.
Southgate has put himself under a lot of pressure now, if we lose to Colombia then people will be pointing fingers at his decision tonight to basically stall our momentum.
Rashford was total dog shit, the big players perform at the big moments and he flunked it.
Drunkk Thought we got Japan in the last 16 and I've been telling all ang sundry what a good draw it is for uss and how we're going to smash the Japs. Not 1 person pulled me up. Ong it. Barstewarrds!!
Very pissed off indeed, this is a World Cup match not a friendly and I don't like to see us put out half-arsed sides and lose matches.
If Belgium want to rest everyone then fine, let them do what they want, but we should have played our proper team and gone all out to win the game and further build confidence.
Southgate has put himself under a lot of pressure now, if we lose to Colombia then people will be pointing fingers at his decision tonight to basically stall our momentum.
Rashford was total dog shit, the big players perform at the big moments and he flunked it.
I thought Rashford was dreadful, you can see why Mourinho is reluctant to use him at United.
His main asset is his pace, but he seems reluctant to use it, and when he moved to RWB he looked positively lazy in getting up the field to support the attack.
For all of his faults Sterling is a far better player in that role, and at least doesn't hide.
If we lose to Colombia (and we might) then people will point to the resting of players and have a moan because that's what people like to do. It won't be because that line of reasoning makes any sense because it won't, whatsoever.
We could've put out our best team against Belgium, lost to them and then lost to Colombia with our best team and people would moan "why didn't Southgate rest players in a meaningless group game?"
People make endless arguments about our players being tired at the end of a Premier League season so let's throw our best players into a game that has no direct consequence on whether we qualify for the next round. Makes sense...
There are 8 teams in the top half of the draw that would swap places with us in a heartbeat.
It is not so much the resting of players that I object to, more the half-hearted efforts of those that replaced them.
That was a golden opportunity to send a message to Southgate that said 'Don't leave me out again', and yet the only one who did that was Danny Rose (goal apart).
Out of the others, most of them probably went backwards in the pecking order,
Never really took to Rashford, always felt that he lacked a bit extra for the top level, and you can see why Mourinho doesn't start him upfront.
Looking at the Under 20's and younger, there are some good young strikers on the way up (Brewster at Liverpool for example), which is good, because outside of Kane, the rest of them are shithouse (Vardy, Wellbeck, Rashford etc).
For those saying it’s embarrassing trying to avoid the top teams as it’s makes no difference when we have to beat one eventually.....
I think it makes all the difference in the world when this England team plays a top team.
Playing a top side (such as Brazil) in any stage up to the quarters will indeed results in being easily outclassed....
However - in a semi final onwards the occasion goes up a level. The whole country will be in a euphoric position. None of the players will really remember England in Italia 90 and honestly when the occasion is like that - all bets will be off. They truly could rise to the occasion in a one off game which would be the biggest in English football (club or country) for nearly 30 years.
In fact in my admittedly small sample size of 2 games - England have outplayed arguably stronger sides on paper in the two semi finals I have seen in major tournaments in 90 and 96.
There's that but also we have to play a top team eventually, but seems simple to also play at least one less top team rather than Brazil followed by France/Uruguay/Portugal.
Italia 90 is our most famous "World Cup Heroes" as it were but to be honest they drew with Ireland, beat Egypt 1-0 from a goal from a corner, snuck past Belgium in extra time and beat Cameroon because of 2 penalties with a pretty piss easy draw. Obviously I get the performance against Germany is the memorable part but if they had a harder draw than that, that team probably doesn't get that far to have that.
We should never have lost the QF to Germany 2-3 in 1970 Banks was injured / i'll, Bometti(Chelsea)i wasn't in the same class and fluffed his lines. Labone (CH Everton) aslo couldn't handle Uwe Seeler and Gerd Muller in the air who were about 5'9'' and out jumped him. Plus Bobby Charlton was inexplicably subbed at 2-0 up IIRC.
The squad on paper was widely felt to be stronger and better than that which won the cup 4 years earlier and was the comp where Banks made his wonder save from Pele and Moore was outstanding winning tackles off Brazilian players like taking candy from babies. Sadly you don't win games on paper.
The Charlton substitution was the key - Ramsey supposedly resting him for the semi-final! He had kept the Kaiser quiet all game and when he came off Beckenbauer then took control. My God that match was so depressing.
Already talking about a route to the final, and talking about Colombia likes it's already won
We are the Sheffield Wednesday of international fans
There’s a total arrogance about it , so annoying it’s like people forget we have not been any good since 66 and was ok in 90 and 96 that’s it
The rest of the time we have been proper shite
But this is not the rest of the time, this is now. We won our first two games and qualified for the next round with a game to spare. If you can't get excited about that then why bother even following the tournament? Tonight was a very strange situation and I think you can forget it, the circumstances were exceptionally unusual. Yes I wanted us to win but without doubt the route we have now is the prefered one. I was looking at our route to the final as soon as the draw was done months ago. It's natural to try and see how you will get on and who you may come up against if you proceed. It's not as if you play your games and then at the end if you've won you say "Right, who have we got next?" This is the World Cup for goodness sake, it only comes along every four years and in my time we didn't even qualify for 3 of them! This is also a bloody good WC too and from the manager down to the coach driver we have the most harmonious and least arrogant Team England I can remember. As for '90 and '96 we were only any good at the end of those tournaments, even the first half against The Netherlands in '96 we were totally outplayed. Of course it's better to peak later rather than too soon but I am quite satisfied with our group games and I think we will go on and at least reach the semis. As for no good since '66 well I think it is generally accepted that we were actually a much better team in 1970 by those who were around. I was, but only 5 years old. Enjoy the ride everyone, get excited about Tuesday and already think about where you are going to watch the 1/4, the semi and the final!
I think you can look at it another way. Football is a professional game that can be a bit cynical when the situation dictates. I always feel we are a bit naive when it comes to this. Nobody remembers the fair play loser - remember 2006 when Zidane was sent off. You can't hear what was said at the time, but we know Matarazzi said something so low and dispicable to Zidane that he reacted and cost France the trophy. Italy got the glory with little or no condemnation.
Before the game I was listening to the build up on my car radio. There was a paranoia that Martinez - the cynical foreigner had no intention of winning the game. Us the innocent, honest English would of course go out and win it then get knocked out by Brazil. This was the scenario I expected! But Southgate mugged them off. Nobody can send a team out to lose, but playing a weaker team than your opponents helps! We were more cynical than they were. There was no urgency or desperation for England to get into the game. Southgate knew full well that the losing team's side of the draw was preferable.
It doesn't help to lower expectation levels a bit either and it is great that the performance was enough that we can't be accused of cheating by anybody. Not only do we now avoid Brazil in the quarters and have the prospect of the Swiss or Swedes instead, but we will play mostly in Moscow and also in more favourable weather conditions. We also give our best players a break to free themselves of niggles and prepare for the serious bit of the tournament. Southgate even managed to look a bit disapointed - like any good Italian would! England don't do this sort of thing!
I think it is exciting that we do and and really warming to Southgate the manager! We are in this World Cup to win it - make no mistake about that. Any deficiencies players that will not play again in the tournament show is simply irrelevant.
Not pissed off with Southgate at all, considering the XI Belgium had our compared to us we had a stronger line up. So many players didn’t take their chance. Dier was fucking woeful again. Rashford proved he is an impact player. I thought Rose and RLC played quite well. That side was good enough to win the game, they just didn’t turn up.
Not pissed off with Southgate at all, considering the XI Belgium had our compared to us we had a stronger line up. So many players didn’t take their chance. Dier was fucking woeful again. Rashford proved he is an impact player. I thought Rose and RLC played quite well. That side was good enough to win the game, they just didn’t turn up.
Agree with Rose and i think he should play instead of Young as he's far more dangerous in attacking positions. Thought Alexander-Arnold was quite lively in the first half, but wasn't that impressed with RLC, he seemed to lose possession quite easily a few times.
As you say though, the team selected was good enough to win, they just didn't turn up. Then again a side with Dier and Delph wasn't going to create too much. Think it was 83 minutes before we had a shot on target.
Not pissed off with Southgate at all, considering the XI Belgium had our compared to us we had a stronger line up. So many players didn’t take their chance. Dier was fucking woeful again. Rashford proved he is an impact player. I thought Rose and RLC played quite well. That side was good enough to win the game, they just didn’t turn up.
If you are desperate to win the game, you don't play Rashford as a defender at the end! Rose lost his chance - I prefer Young for his overall solidity. Rashford is best employed as an impact sub - just as key a position as a starter.
Not pissed off with Southgate at all, considering the XI Belgium had our compared to us we had a stronger line up. So many players didn’t take their chance. Dier was fucking woeful again. Rashford proved he is an impact player. I thought Rose and RLC played quite well. That side was good enough to win the game, they just didn’t turn up.
If you are desperate to win the game, you don't play Rashford as a defender at the end! Rose lost his chance - I prefer Young for his overall solidity. Rashford is best employed as an impact sub - just as key a position as a starter.
No he didn't. Danny Rose was possibly our best player last night. He could have shown Januzaj onto his other foot for the goal but other than that he showed pace, good defensive reading of the game, and offers us additional width that Young doesn't. Young will also be caused serious problems by better wingers that Rose will keep up with better. Young is ok but he's not really a defender
I am glad he didn't defend the goal well - don't get me wrong - but he didn't defend the goal well. That doesn't win you a place in the side when you have been beaten 1-0! I'm sure Southgate would play Rose if an opponent suited him more than Young, which is possible down the line, but against Columbia is is Young all the way! The only question is how fit Alli is really - the team picks itself!
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However, keeps the first team fresh for Tuesday. Come on England!
The performance tonight was a bit disappointing though, very few of that team made a case for playing on Tuesday, including Pickford it has to be said. By contrast Martinez has quite a few selections issues, with the likes of Dembele playing really well, Fellaini being a massive handful - imagine him against the Japanese - and Kompany playing his first minutes.
I was looking at our route to the final as soon as the draw was done months ago. It's natural to try and see how you will get on and who you may come up against if you proceed. It's not as if you play your games and then at the end if you've won you say "Right, who have we got next?"
This is the World Cup for goodness sake, it only comes along every four years and in my time we didn't even qualify for 3 of them! This is also a bloody good WC too and from the manager down to the coach driver we have the most harmonious and least arrogant Team England I can remember.
As for '90 and '96 we were only any good at the end of those tournaments, even the first half against The Netherlands in '96 we were totally outplayed. Of course it's better to peak later rather than too soon but I am quite satisfied with our group games and I think we will go on and at least reach the semis.
As for no good since '66 well I think it is generally accepted that we were actually a much better team in 1970 by those who were around. I was, but only 5 years old.
Enjoy the ride everyone, get excited about Tuesday and already think about where you are going to watch the 1/4, the semi and the final!
The squad on paper was widely felt to be stronger and better than that which won the cup 4 years earlier and was the comp where Banks made his wonder save from Pele and Moore was outstanding winning tackles off Brazilian players like taking candy from babies. Sadly you don't win games on paper.
Having seen a lot of Japan over the years, I think we would have beaten them comfortably, as they play a lot of tippy tappy stuff without really going anywhere.Columbia on the other had are going to be a real handful, and have some top class players in some of the best leagues around Europe.
The most disappointing things from England, was that all of those fringe players (apart from Danny Rose whom I would keep in the side), did nothing to warrant further selection.
Dier was terrible and it is hard to believe that we don't have a better option than him as a defensive midfielder, Rashford is like a slightly more upmarket version of Kim Grant in that he looks good coming off the bench and getting a few goals, but then when he starts he looks pretty ordinary and lacklustre.
Alexander-Arnold played too deep and his dead ball delivery was woeful, Fabian Delph ticks over but doesn't really influence the game and I am still trying to work out what Loftus Cheek is actually any good at?
Thought we got Japan in the last 16 and I've been telling all ang sundry what a good draw it is for uss and how we're going to smash the Japs.
Not 1 person pulled me up. Ong it. Barstewarrds!!
Think will struggle agains Korea
If Belgium want to rest everyone then fine, let them do what they want, but we should have played our proper team and gone all out to win the game and further build confidence.
Southgate has put himself under a lot of pressure now, if we lose to Colombia then people will be pointing fingers at his decision tonight to basically stall our momentum.
Rashford was total dog shit, the big players perform at the big moments and he flunked it.
His main asset is his pace, but he seems reluctant to use it, and when he moved to RWB he looked positively lazy in getting up the field to support the attack.
For all of his faults Sterling is a far better player in that role, and at least doesn't hide.
We could've put out our best team against Belgium, lost to them and then lost to Colombia with our best team and people would moan "why didn't Southgate rest players in a meaningless group game?"
People make endless arguments about our players being tired at the end of a Premier League season so let's throw our best players into a game that has no direct consequence on whether we qualify for the next round. Makes sense...
There are 8 teams in the top half of the draw that would swap places with us in a heartbeat.
That was a golden opportunity to send a message to Southgate that said 'Don't leave me out again', and yet the only one who did that was Danny Rose (goal apart).
Out of the others, most of them probably went backwards in the pecking order,
Looking at the Under 20's and younger, there are some good young strikers on the way up (Brewster at Liverpool for example), which is good, because outside of Kane, the rest of them are shithouse (Vardy, Wellbeck, Rashford etc).
Italia 90 is our most famous "World Cup Heroes" as it were but to be honest they drew with Ireland, beat Egypt 1-0 from a goal from a corner, snuck past Belgium in extra time and beat Cameroon because of 2 penalties with a pretty piss easy draw. Obviously I get the performance against Germany is the memorable part but if they had a harder draw than that, that team probably doesn't get that far to have that.
Before the game I was listening to the build up on my car radio. There was a paranoia that Martinez - the cynical foreigner had no intention of winning the game. Us the innocent, honest English would of course go out and win it then get knocked out by Brazil. This was the scenario I expected! But Southgate mugged them off. Nobody can send a team out to lose, but playing a weaker team than your opponents helps! We were more cynical than they were. There was no urgency or desperation for England to get into the game. Southgate knew full well that the losing team's side of the draw was preferable.
It doesn't help to lower expectation levels a bit either and it is great that the performance was enough that we can't be accused of cheating by anybody. Not only do we now avoid Brazil in the quarters and have the prospect of the Swiss or Swedes instead, but we will play mostly in Moscow and also in more favourable weather conditions. We also give our best players a break to free themselves of niggles and prepare for the serious bit of the tournament. Southgate even managed to look a bit disapointed - like any good Italian would! England don't do this sort of thing!
I think it is exciting that we do and and really warming to Southgate the manager! We are in this World Cup to win it - make no mistake about that. Any deficiencies players that will not play again in the tournament show is simply irrelevant.
Thought Alexander-Arnold was quite lively in the first half, but wasn't that impressed with RLC, he seemed to lose possession quite easily a few times.
As you say though, the team selected was good enough to win, they just didn't turn up. Then again a side with Dier and Delph wasn't going to create too much. Think it was 83 minutes before we had a shot on target.