For some reason this thread reminds me of the time Charlton had to win at Carlisle away to clinch promotion and a lot of people said “Ooohhh but Carlisle away is tough, they’re in the playoff spots. Don’t think I’ll go”
Let’s face it, if we end up on the ‘easier’ side of the draw then people will only downplay any progress we make by saying things like “oh we only got to the semis by playing Japan, Mexico etc”
Doubtful. Do you ever hear "oh but we only just scraped past Belgium and Cameroon" when talking about Italia 90?
No because it is 30 years ago and we haven’t had too much else to cheer about since then so it is seen through some rose tinted glasses.
Even at this very moment in time there are a lot of people who are refusing to get behind praising England because ‘we only beat Panama and Tunisia’
We don't seem to have a single player in the squad who looks capable of testing the keeper when we get one 25-30 yards out.
And we really missed Trippier last night on corners and indirect free kicks. The delivery from Arnold got worse and worse last night, it reminded me of some of Charlton's last season, I don't know whether the occasion got to him, but he scuffed several.
For some reason this thread reminds me of the time Charlton had to win at Carlisle away to clinch promotion and a lot of people said “Ooohhh but Carlisle away is tough, they’re in the playoff spots. Don’t think I’ll go”
Let’s face it, if we end up on the ‘easier’ side of the draw then people will only downplay any progress we make by saying things like “oh we only got to the semis by playing Japan, Mexico etc”
Doubtful. Do you ever hear "oh but we only just scraped past Belgium and Cameroon" when talking about Italia 90?
No because it is 30 years ago and we haven’t had too much else to cheer about since then so it is seen through some rose tinted glasses.
Even at this very moment in time there are a lot of people who are refusing to get behind praising England because ‘we only beat Panama and Tunisia’
They are the sort of people that would moan we don't score enough if we beat brazil 1-0, f*** em.
Already talking about a route to the final, and talking about Colombia likes it's already won
We are the Sheffield Wednesday of international fans
There’s a total arrogance about it , so annoying it’s like people forget we have not been any good since 66 and was ok in 90 and 96 that’s it
The rest of the time we have been proper shite
But this is not the rest of the time, this is now. We won our first two games and qualified for the next round with a game to spare. If you can't get excited about that then why bother even following the tournament? Tonight was a very strange situation and I think you can forget it, the circumstances were exceptionally unusual. Yes I wanted us to win but without doubt the route we have now is the prefered one. I was looking at our route to the final as soon as the draw was done months ago. It's natural to try and see how you will get on and who you may come up against if you proceed. It's not as if you play your games and then at the end if you've won you say "Right, who have we got next?" This is the World Cup for goodness sake, it only comes along every four years and in my time we didn't even qualify for 3 of them! This is also a bloody good WC too and from the manager down to the coach driver we have the most harmonious and least arrogant Team England I can remember. As for '90 and '96 we were only any good at the end of those tournaments, even the first half against The Netherlands in '96 we were totally outplayed. Of course it's better to peak later rather than too soon but I am quite satisfied with our group games and I think we will go on and at least reach the semis. As for no good since '66 well I think it is generally accepted that we were actually a much better team in 1970 by those who were around. I was, but only 5 years old. Enjoy the ride everyone, get excited about Tuesday and already think about where you are going to watch the 1/4, the semi and the final!
I think you can look at it another way. Football is a professional game that can be a bit cynical when the situation dictates. I always feel we are a bit naive when it comes to this. Nobody remembers the fair play loser - remember 2006 when Zidane was sent off. You can't hear what was said at the time, but we know Matarazzi said something so low and dispicable to Zidane that he reacted and cost France the trophy. Italy got the glory with little or no condemnation.
Before the game I was listening to the build up on my car radio. There was a paranoia that Martinez - the cynical foreigner had no intention of winning the game. Us the innocent, honest English would of course go out and win it then get knocked out by Brazil. This was the scenario I expected! But Southgate mugged them off. Nobody can send a team out to lose, but playing a weaker team than your opponents helps! We were more cynical than they were. There was no urgency or desperation for England to get into the game. Southgate knew full well that the losing team's side of the draw was preferable.
It doesn't help to lower expectation levels a bit either and it is great that the performance was enough that we can't be accused of cheating by anybody. Not only do we now avoid Brazil in the quarters and have the prospect of the Swiss or Swedes instead, but we will play mostly in Moscow and also in more favourable weather conditions. We also give our best players a break to free themselves of niggles and prepare for the serious bit of the tournament. Southgate even managed to look a bit disapointed - like any good Italian would! England don't do this sort of thing!
I think it is exciting that we do and and really warming to Southgate the manager! We are in this World Cup to win it - make no mistake about that. Any deficiencies players that will not play again in the tournament show is simply irrelevant.
Nailed it. I'm a little surprised that there are still some people that just do not understand.
We don't seem to have a single player in the squad who looks capable of testing the keeper when we get one 25-30 yards out.
Trent Arnold was Jank.
He couldn't get the ball above knee height from corners and then they let him take a free kick. Surprise surprise, it hit the wall. But he is only 19 and is one for the future.
Already talking about a route to the final, and talking about Colombia likes it's already won
We are the Sheffield Wednesday of international fans
There’s a total arrogance about it , so annoying it’s like people forget we have not been any good since 66 and was ok in 90 and 96 that’s it
The rest of the time we have been proper shite
But this is not the rest of the time, this is now. We won our first two games and qualified for the next round with a game to spare. If you can't get excited about that then why bother even following the tournament? Tonight was a very strange situation and I think you can forget it, the circumstances were exceptionally unusual. Yes I wanted us to win but without doubt the route we have now is the prefered one. I was looking at our route to the final as soon as the draw was done months ago. It's natural to try and see how you will get on and who you may come up against if you proceed. It's not as if you play your games and then at the end if you've won you say "Right, who have we got next?" This is the World Cup for goodness sake, it only comes along every four years and in my time we didn't even qualify for 3 of them! This is also a bloody good WC too and from the manager down to the coach driver we have the most harmonious and least arrogant Team England I can remember. As for '90 and '96 we were only any good at the end of those tournaments, even the first half against The Netherlands in '96 we were totally outplayed. Of course it's better to peak later rather than too soon but I am quite satisfied with our group games and I think we will go on and at least reach the semis. As for no good since '66 well I think it is generally accepted that we were actually a much better team in 1970 by those who were around. I was, but only 5 years old. Enjoy the ride everyone, get excited about Tuesday and already think about where you are going to watch the 1/4, the semi and the final!
I think you can look at it another way. Football is a professional game that can be a bit cynical when the situation dictates. I always feel we are a bit naive when it comes to this. Nobody remembers the fair play loser - remember 2006 when Zidane was sent off. You can't hear what was said at the time, but we know Matarazzi said something so low and dispicable to Zidane that he reacted and cost France the trophy. Italy got the glory with little or no condemnation.
Before the game I was listening to the build up on my car radio. There was a paranoia that Martinez - the cynical foreigner had no intention of winning the game. Us the innocent, honest English would of course go out and win it then get knocked out by Brazil. This was the scenario I expected! But Southgate mugged them off. Nobody can send a team out to lose, but playing a weaker team than your opponents helps! We were more cynical than they were. There was no urgency or desperation for England to get into the game. Southgate knew full well that the losing team's side of the draw was preferable.
It doesn't help to lower expectation levels a bit either and it is great that the performance was enough that we can't be accused of cheating by anybody. Not only do we now avoid Brazil in the quarters and have the prospect of the Swiss or Swedes instead, but we will play mostly in Moscow and also in more favourable weather conditions. We also give our best players a break to free themselves of niggles and prepare for the serious bit of the tournament. Southgate even managed to look a bit disapointed - like any good Italian would! England don't do this sort of thing!
I think it is exciting that we do and and really warming to Southgate the manager! We are in this World Cup to win it - make no mistake about that. Any deficiencies players that will not play again in the tournament show is simply irrelevant.
I think you are looking at it exactly the same way as me!
We don't seem to have a single player in the squad who looks capable of testing the keeper when we get one 25-30 yards out.
Trent Arnold was Jank.
He couldn't get the ball above knee height from corners and then they let him take a free kick. Surprise surprise, it hit the wall. But he is only 19 and is one for the future.
The lack of a regular captain on the pitch showed
If Kane or Henderson had been playing, they probably would have swapped takers, but Dier was hardly in a position to change the dead ball taker.
We should never have lost the QF to Germany 2-3 in 1970 Banks was injured / i'll, Bometti(Chelsea)i wasn't in the same class and fluffed his lines. Labone (CH Everton) aslo couldn't handle Uwe Seeler and Gerd Muller in the air who were about 5'9'' and out jumped him. Plus Bobby Charlton was inexplicably subbed at 2-0 up IIRC.
The squad on paper was widely felt to be stronger and better than that which won the cup 4 years earlier and was the comp where Banks made his wonder save from Pele and Moore was outstanding winning tackles off Brazilian players like taking candy from babies. Sadly you don't win games on paper.
The Charlton substitution was the key - Ramsey supposedly resting him for the semi-final! He had kept the Kaiser quiet all game and when he came off Beckenbauer then took control. My God that match was so depressing.
Yep, tactical blunder by Alf. Beckenbauer said as much. Can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of " I had one job and that was to man-mark Bobby Charlton. When he went off I had a free reign"
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We don't seem to have a single player in the squad who looks capable of testing the keeper when we get one 25-30 yards out.
Even at this very moment in time there are a lot of people who are refusing to get behind praising England because ‘we only beat Panama and Tunisia’
But he is only 19 and is one for the future.
If Kane or Henderson had been playing, they probably would have swapped takers, but Dier was hardly in a position to change the dead ball taker.
Beckenbauer said as much. Can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of " I had one job and that was to man-mark Bobby Charlton. When he went off I had a free reign"