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The rise of the vegans.

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  • @Braziliance and others, I won’t patronise you in any way (I think it’s more a kick back for the re that steveLamb brings up this topic).

    However, help me out here. I get the non meat fish approach based on the slaughtering of animal, raising of animals for slaughtering. Won’t I don’t get is the avoidance of dairy, eggs and honey, which animals naturally provide.

    That to me is unnecessary and taking it to extreme. Grateful for your thoughts
  • If anyone would like to give vegan food a try, Vegan Wednesday is now at Greenwich Market.
  • @Braziliance and others, I won’t patronise you in any way (I think it’s more a kick back for the re that steveLamb brings up this topic).

    However, help me out here. I get the non meat fish approach based on the slaughtering of animal, raising of animals for slaughtering. Won’t I don’t get is the avoidance of dairy, eggs and honey, which animals naturally provide.

    That to me is unnecessary and taking it to extreme. Grateful for your thoughts

    As an example, To produce milk the cows need to keep having calf’s so they are then breeding animals that are not needed and then slaughtered.

    Personally, I think the only criminal part is that we don’t eat more rose veal in the uk
  • image

    That's true for all different sections of society. But stereotypes occur for a reason.
  • So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young?

    Fairly sure they’re not getting up to animal business just for our benefit
  • @Braziliance and others, I won’t patronise you in any way (I think it’s more a kick back for the re that steveLamb brings up this topic).

    However, help me out here. I get the non meat fish approach based on the slaughtering of animal, raising of animals for slaughtering. Won’t I don’t get is the avoidance of dairy, eggs and honey, which animals naturally provide.

    That to me is unnecessary and taking it to extreme. Grateful for your thoughts

    As an example, To produce milk the cows need to keep having calf’s so they are then breeding animals that are not needed and then slaughtered.

    Personally, I think the only criminal part is that we don’t eat more rose veal in the uk
    Had one tonight in breadcrumbs. Lovely. Gotta look after the bull calves!
  • So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young?

    Fairly sure they’re not getting up to animal business just for our benefit

    It’s mostly done by AI.

  • edited July 2018
    AFKA wtf mate ? debating with a Vegan about being a Vegan ?????? go and stand in the corner
  • Just think it's worth saying as well that on a thread specifically aimed at Vegans that the attitude of 'I like meat why is that a crime' is just wasted. It isn't constructive and someone who has chosen a vegan lifestyle genuinely doesn't want to hear you try and justify why you eat meat as in our eyes there is no justification. To someone that doesn't understand it aka me over a year ago you don't know how ignorant you sound until you inform yourself. If you watch the videos about it and read the information on animal agriculture it will really test your morale compass. No one can believe I went vegan as I've always been a vegetable dodger.

    I would highly recommend that if you have the mentality of 'Meat tastes nice I don't care' that you sit down and watch a documentary about animal agriculture and the harm it does to the planet. It's fascinating and at the very least will inform you on why people choose to go vegan even if you don't choose to yourself.

    Are you really vegan ? You seem far too happy.
    Not sure if you are being serious as I consider myself to be quite grumpy haha

    But yes I am, I try and remain very neutral though as obviously the majority of people I know eat meat. Only me, my girlfriend and two of my close mates are vegan so I think trying to talk down to people for what I believe or cause arguments would not only leave me with no mates it would also be counter productive.
    No I was serious. The people I know who are vegans on here and elsewhere "generally" seem to be very unhappy people, that moan about most things and have little sense of humour.

    I don’t think I come across on here as being unhappy despite suffering bouts of depression. Genuinely perturbed that I may be seen as a grumpy fucker.
  • bobmunro said:

    So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young?

    Fairly sure they’re not getting up to animal business just for our benefit

    It’s mostly done by AI.

    What, Essex Al? "
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  • to produce milk you have to be lactating, lactation comes as a result of giving birth.

  • Just think it's worth saying as well that on a thread specifically aimed at Vegans that the attitude of 'I like meat why is that a crime' is just wasted. It isn't constructive and someone who has chosen a vegan lifestyle genuinely doesn't want to hear you try and justify why you eat meat as in our eyes there is no justification. To someone that doesn't understand it aka me over a year ago you don't know how ignorant you sound until you inform yourself. If you watch the videos about it and read the information on animal agriculture it will really test your morale compass. No one can believe I went vegan as I've always been a vegetable dodger.

    I would highly recommend that if you have the mentality of 'Meat tastes nice I don't care' that you sit down and watch a documentary about animal agriculture and the harm it does to the planet. It's fascinating and at the very least will inform you on why people choose to go vegan even if you don't choose to yourself.

    Are you really vegan ? You seem far too happy.
    Not sure if you are being serious as I consider myself to be quite grumpy haha

    But yes I am, I try and remain very neutral though as obviously the majority of people I know eat meat. Only me, my girlfriend and two of my close mates are vegan so I think trying to talk down to people for what I believe or cause arguments would not only leave me with no mates it would also be counter productive.
    No I was serious. The people I know who are vegans on here and elsewhere "generally" seem to be very unhappy people, that moan about most things and have little sense of humour.
    Couldn't agree more with this. It wouldn't be so bad if outside of lecturing you about your dietary habits they weren't so insufferable but the truth is they are all dull bastards outside of that too.
  • edited July 2018
    bobmunro said:

    So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young?

    Fairly sure they’re not getting up to animal business just for our benefit

    It’s mostly done by AI.

    Capone or Pacino?
  • bobmunro said:

    So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young?

    Fairly sure they’re not getting up to animal business just for our benefit

    It’s mostly done by AI.

    Capone or Pacino?
    Murray
  • to produce milk you have to be lactating, lactation comes as a result of giving birth.

    No shit Sherlock.
  • Redrobo said:

    to produce milk you have to be lactating, lactation comes as a result of giving birth.

    No shit Sherlock.
    Sorry clever bollox, it was an answer to afka's question

    "So to produce milk, cows and goats need to be producing young? "
  • Huskaris said:

    Just think it's worth saying as well that on a thread specifically aimed at Vegans that the attitude of 'I like meat why is that a crime' is just wasted. It isn't constructive and someone who has chosen a vegan lifestyle genuinely doesn't want to hear you try and justify why you eat meat as in our eyes there is no justification. To someone that doesn't understand it aka me over a year ago you don't know how ignorant you sound until you inform yourself. If you watch the videos about it and read the information on animal agriculture it will really test your morale compass. No one can believe I went vegan as I've always been a vegetable dodger.

    I would highly recommend that if you have the mentality of 'Meat tastes nice I don't care' that you sit down and watch a documentary about animal agriculture and the harm it does to the planet. It's fascinating and at the very least will inform you on why people choose to go vegan even if you don't choose to yourself.

    Are you really vegan ? You seem far too happy.
    Not sure if you are being serious as I consider myself to be quite grumpy haha

    But yes I am, I try and remain very neutral though as obviously the majority of people I know eat meat. Only me, my girlfriend and two of my close mates are vegan so I think trying to talk down to people for what I believe or cause arguments would not only leave me with no mates it would also be counter productive.
    No I was serious. The people I know who are vegans on here and elsewhere "generally" seem to be very unhappy people, that moan about most things and have little sense of humour.
    Couldn't agree more with this. It wouldn't be so bad if outside of lecturing you about your dietary habits they weren't so insufferable but the truth is they are all dull bastards outside of that too.

    Load of old bollocks.
  • @AFKABartram - since you seem genuinely interested as to why some of us avoid dairy and eggs then may I give you my reasons.

    Dairy - I don’t want to have anything to do with an industry that unnaturally keeps female cows locked into a cycle of artificial insemination, giving birth, having their babies stolen away from them, then being hooked up to milking machines where their sore and infected udders are used to extract their milk. This is then repeated until at around seven or eight years old they’re exhausted and beyond their ‘of use’ date. They’re then shipped off to slaughter. It is worth noting that a cow left to live a natural life can live to be as old as twenty years old.
    Going back to a dairy cows offspring, if it’s female then they go back into the dairy herd to endure what I detailed earlier, if they’re male then they are either immediately disposed of or sent off to endure a hellish existence in a veal crate, alone, devoid of stimulation or care.
    Don’t be fooled by the dairy industry image of happy cows gladly giving their milk so the rosy cheeked little human can get some wholesome calcium. The life of an average dairy cow is not worth living.

    Eggs - again, don’t be fooled by the egg industries deviation from the truth. Your average hen used for her eggs isn’t skipping around a pleasant field, clucking away as they forage around for tasty tidbits or stretching their wings in the brilliant sun. The reality is they’re kept in huge barns devoid of natural sunlight with dank, dusty air, where if they have the space of an A4 piece of paper, then it’s deemed to have enough space for their needs. So depressing and stressful are these surroundings the hens have their beaks cut so they can’t injure each other if they fight due to the frustrating conditions they have to endure.
    Those above are the lucky ones as depressingly, some hens still, in this day and age, are kept in cages where they barely have room to move, wire floors of their cages cutting into their feet. So stressful is this life that it’s not uncommon for a hens feathers to fall out as they live in their own faeces under artificial light.
    As for the babies of the egg industry again it doesn’t offer any positives to be male. It is common practice that male chicks are routinely thrown into grinding machines where their bodies are obliterated or simply dumped on top of each other in plastic bags where they are then suffocated. If you’re lucky to be born female then you enter the cycle of being exploited for what is essentially a chickens period until your body is exhausted and you no longer have any financial worth. Then off to slaughter you go.

    I appreciate that some people have no empathy or compassion towards what they see as essentially their food but for me, fuck that. There is no way I want to be a part of the hell that so many feeling, loving, thinking sentient beings have to go through just so I can eat a meal that I’ll have forgotten I’ve eaten half an hour later. My life isn’t that important so that they have to suffer.

    Are free range eggs any good?
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  • Fair enough @AddickUpNorth don’t 100% agree with you but thanks for sharing your thoughts
  • Hey, it’s different strokes for different folks @AFKABartram and you’re welcome.
  • Veggie since 1989 when I was 24 - 52 now, so over half my life. My wife's been veggie since she was 17 - she's 52 as well. Aware of the issues with dairy but get organic stuff and free range eggs (and honey from a bloke at work).
  • I’ve been eating a fair bit of vegan food recently, had an amazing meal at a Japanese restaurant called Flat Three at Holland Park.definitely recommend that and am looking forward to going to Farmacy in a week or two.

    Have no current plans to go the full vegan, vegetarian or ‘just fish’ bit I do feel a lot better for cutting down on meat, dairy and especially processed meat.

    My mum has bantams and I have also had some of @Arsenetatters rescue hens eggs and there is no doubt that these eggs are almost unrecognisable even from super premium farmers eggs life Buford browns and Cotswold legbar. The requirements for free range eggs are not quite limited and in my opinion should be tougher, it ain’t hens foaming around the woods for sure.

    What I find slightly interesting is the number of high profile sportspeople becoming vegan and swearing that it improves their longevity of high performance. Williams sisters, Hamilton, Haye all day it aids recovery times, focus etc.

  • @Anna_Kissed
    1. Do bees not produce more honey than they need?
    2. What milk would you recommend as tasty
    Like milk but not the process
    Dislike plain soya milk
    Don’t want sugared / sugar substitute in the milk
  • 1. Perhaps they do. It depends, I think, on various factors, e.g. the weather, availability of flowers, etc.
    I choose to leave the bees alone.
    2. Best, I reckon, to try some different ones and see what suits. (I purchase both unsweetened and sweetened (with apple juice) soya milk from Lidl. 59p per litre. Almond milk is nice on cereal, but I find it gives tea an overly-nutty taste.

    Plenty of info in BBC Radio 4's 'Book of the Week'. Buzz, by Dr. Thor Hanson
    'Bees are like oxygen - ubiquitous, essential and, for the most part, unseen. While we might overlook them, they lie at the heart of relationships that bind the human and natural worlds. Dr Hanson takes us on a journey that begins 125 million years ago, when a wasp first dared to feed pollen to its young'.

    https://bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b86qyz

    https://thorhanson.net/buzz.html
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