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The rise of the vegans.

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  • The reason I changed to whole plant based nutrition was for health concerns, not the welfare of animals although when you decide to change both things happen automatically.
    I was 14 stone in weight two years ago and Type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol readings.
    I had knee pain and back pain, my back was covered in spots, my gums bled, I had a 38" waist and was always feeling tired and my hair was receding.
    Two years later I am 11 stone and have a 30" waist, normal blood pressure, no knee or back pain, cholesterol is so low the Doctor had to take me off statins, my hair is growing back (I kid you not) my gums no longer bleed, no spots cover my back and I am on no medication whatsoever,
    not even for my diabetes which is recession.
    But you know my Doctor in the UK does not even ask how I have managed to do this, as I am no longer on any medication I am of no use to them because all they want to do is treat the symptoms with prescription drugs they are not interested in treating the cause. I have been very lucky to have talked to the most prominent nutrition experts and doctors in the USA and I now learn from them not my Doctor here in the UK. In fact I am seriously thinking of suing Diabetes UK for the advice they give on nutrition.
  • edited July 2018
    I have some snake oil that can do all of that for you.

    I'm 12st 10, 32 inch waist and 5ft 9"

    How short and fat were you to have a 38 waist at that height?

    If you intend to sue a charity for the advice they tried to give to help you (with no ill intent) then you're a disgraceful individual and you'll be taking funds for those that have been helped by the charity and those that will be helped in future by the charity.

    Just typing that lets me know that even considering suing a charity for advice given in good will makes you scum in my opinion.
  • I eat meat and like eating meat. I am also a real animal lover so I realise I have conflicting views and emotions which at present still win on being a carnivore.
    I do however have great respect for those that are more committed than I ever could be for animal welfare and would never condemn them. I think I’m very much a head in the sand person with regard to this issue. I am also fairly liberal in my views and really dislike the almost evangelical stance by some vegans and vegetarians. That’s me anyway.

    Imo - Promoting veganism is not good for animal welfare. Eating ethically reared meat is good for animal welfare. Unless accepting that, in time, certain species will go extinct, is considered to be caring about their welfare
    I agree with this. I’m all for making an animals life as comfortable as possible during life and as humane as possible when slaughtering. I literally couldn’t hurt a fly but am realistic enough to realise that animals will be bred for consumption and that won’t change for generations if ever. Let’s rear animals for food but do it properly. Happily pay twice as much or more for that to happen.

    I don’t like preaching of any kind on any subject. Vegan IM’s and vegetarianism included.

  • I know how my meat is killed and conditions likely to have been kept in and am happy with that knowledge.

    As long as I dont have to kill it myself that's fine by me.
  • Dazzler21 said:



    Just typing that lets me know that even considering suing a charity for advice given in good will makes you scum in my opinion.

    Good heavens.
  • Stevelamb said:

    The reason I changed to whole plant based nutrition was for health concerns, not the welfare of animals although when you decide to change both things happen automatically.
    I was 14 stone in weight two years ago and Type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol readings.
    I had knee pain and back pain, my back was covered in spots, my gums bled, I had a 38" waist and was always feeling tired and my hair was receding.
    Two years later I am 11 stone and have a 30" waist, normal blood pressure, no knee or back pain, cholesterol is so low the Doctor had to take me off statins, my hair is growing back (I kid you not) my gums no longer bleed, no spots cover my back and I am on no medication whatsoever,
    not even for my diabetes which is recession.
    But you know my Doctor in the UK does not even ask how I have managed to do this, as I am no longer on any medication I am of no use to them because all they want to do is treat the symptoms with prescription drugs they are not interested in treating the cause. I have been very lucky to have talked to the most prominent nutrition experts and doctors in the USA and I now learn from them not my Doctor here in the UK. In fact I am seriously thinking of suing Diabetes UK for the advice they give on nutrition.

    I really don't know if you are being serious or not?
  • Stevelamb said:

    The reason I changed to whole plant based nutrition was for health concerns, not the welfare of animals although when you decide to change both things happen automatically.
    I was 14 stone in weight two years ago and Type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol readings.
    I had knee pain and back pain, my back was covered in spots, my gums bled, I had a 38" waist and was always feeling tired and my hair was receding.
    Two years later I am 11 stone and have a 30" waist, normal blood pressure, no knee or back pain, cholesterol is so low the Doctor had to take me off statins, my hair is growing back (I kid you not) my gums no longer bleed, no spots cover my back and I am on no medication whatsoever,
    not even for my diabetes which is recession.
    But you know my Doctor in the UK does not even ask how I have managed to do this, as I am no longer on any medication I am of no use to them because all they want to do is treat the symptoms with prescription drugs they are not interested in treating the cause. I have been very lucky to have talked to the most prominent nutrition experts and doctors in the USA and I now learn from them not my Doctor here in the UK. In fact I am seriously thinking of suing Diabetes UK for the advice they give on nutrition.

    Fair enough, but I went from 16 stone to 11 and a half in less than a year, and still eat meat. Its not like you discovered a magic pill - anyone can get healthy, you just have to eat less and move more
    So you look great from the outside .......................but what about your inside?
    Children who sadly have died in the USA have been autopsied and it has been found that from the age of 8 they are showing the signs of early heart disease with arteries that are starting to clog with cholesterol from eating animal fats.
  • Dazzler21 said:

    I have some snake oil that can do all of that for you.

    I'm 12st 10, 32 inch waist and 5ft 9"

    How short and fat were you to have a 38 waist at that height?

    If you intend to sue a charity for the advice they tried to give to help you (with no ill intent) then you're a disgraceful individual and you'll be taking funds for those that have been helped by the charity and those that will be helped in future by the charity.

    Just typing that lets me know that even considering suing a charity for advice given in good will makes you scum in my opinion.

    Just go and........................................................................take a look at Diabetes UK sponsors.
  • Sponsored links:


  • Stevelamb said:

    Stevelamb said:

    The reason I changed to whole plant based nutrition was for health concerns, not the welfare of animals although when you decide to change both things happen automatically.
    I was 14 stone in weight two years ago and Type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol readings.
    I had knee pain and back pain, my back was covered in spots, my gums bled, I had a 38" waist and was always feeling tired and my hair was receding.
    Two years later I am 11 stone and have a 30" waist, normal blood pressure, no knee or back pain, cholesterol is so low the Doctor had to take me off statins, my hair is growing back (I kid you not) my gums no longer bleed, no spots cover my back and I am on no medication whatsoever,
    not even for my diabetes which is recession.
    But you know my Doctor in the UK does not even ask how I have managed to do this, as I am no longer on any medication I am of no use to them because all they want to do is treat the symptoms with prescription drugs they are not interested in treating the cause. I have been very lucky to have talked to the most prominent nutrition experts and doctors in the USA and I now learn from them not my Doctor here in the UK. In fact I am seriously thinking of suing Diabetes UK for the advice they give on nutrition.

    Fair enough, but I went from 16 stone to 11 and a half in less than a year, and still eat meat. Its not like you discovered a magic pill - anyone can get healthy, you just have to eat less and move more
    So you look great from the outside .......................but what about your inside?
    Children who sadly have died in the USA have been autopsied and it has been found that from the age of 8 they are showing the signs of early heart disease with arteries that are starting to clog with cholesterol from eating animal fats.
    Give over!
  • Some cracking Indian vegetarian restaurants in Drummond St (Euston), if your ever in the area.
    Fixed price lunch buffets are very good
  • Some cracking Indian vegetarian restaurants in Drummond St (Euston), if your ever in the area.
    Fixed price lunch buffets are very good

    Can you get a chicken madras ?

  • Whenever possible I try to purchase our meat/poultry from Sparkes (Blackheath Standard).
    Bloody trumpy, but full chain of process, from farm to counter.
    Owner is a Charlton boy as well.
  • 5ft 11 and a half (the half is very important to me!), 10st 4, 30" waist and I can't actually recall the last day I didn't eat meat, outside of ill in bed and not eating anything was probably in the mid 90's.

    I drink far to much tea as well, maybe 20 cups a day (I know I know) so my milk intake is quite large also.

    Each to their own but I don't think I'd survive without our furry friends (love a burford brown as well but could pass on honey other than when ill).

    We are predators, just like a lot of the animal kingdom, difference is we also have a conscience where I think most meat eaters would prefer their prey is dealt with humanly from birth to death.

    That said after reading this I broke the habit and got a cheese and tomato sandwich (yes I know where cheese comes from but for a change it wasn't pig or cow).
  • Stevelamb said:

    Stevelamb said:

    The reason I changed to whole plant based nutrition was for health concerns, not the welfare of animals although when you decide to change both things happen automatically.
    I was 14 stone in weight two years ago and Type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol readings.
    I had knee pain and back pain, my back was covered in spots, my gums bled, I had a 38" waist and was always feeling tired and my hair was receding.
    Two years later I am 11 stone and have a 30" waist, normal blood pressure, no knee or back pain, cholesterol is so low the Doctor had to take me off statins, my hair is growing back (I kid you not) my gums no longer bleed, no spots cover my back and I am on no medication whatsoever,
    not even for my diabetes which is recession.
    But you know my Doctor in the UK does not even ask how I have managed to do this, as I am no longer on any medication I am of no use to them because all they want to do is treat the symptoms with prescription drugs they are not interested in treating the cause. I have been very lucky to have talked to the most prominent nutrition experts and doctors in the USA and I now learn from them not my Doctor here in the UK. In fact I am seriously thinking of suing Diabetes UK for the advice they give on nutrition.

    Fair enough, but I went from 16 stone to 11 and a half in less than a year, and still eat meat. Its not like you discovered a magic pill - anyone can get healthy, you just have to eat less and move more
    So you look great from the outside .......................but what about your inside?
    Children who sadly have died in the USA have been autopsied and it has been found that from the age of 8 they are showing the signs of early heart disease with arteries that are starting to clog with cholesterol from eating animal fats.
    Animals fats specifically, or saturated fats? Either way, IF THIS IS TRUE, that is bad diet and not caused by the fact they eat meat. After all there are billions of 70+ year olds, world wide, who have eaten meat for the last god knows how long that don't have high cholesterol
  • Rob7Lee said:

    5ft 11 and a half (the half is very important to me!), 10st 4, 30" waist and I can't actually recall the last day I didn't eat meat, outside of ill in bed and not eating anything was probably in the mid 90's.

    I drink far to much tea as well, maybe 20 cups a day (I know I know) so my milk intake is quite large also.

    Each to their own but I don't think I'd survive without our furry friends (love a burford brown as well but could pass on honey other than when ill).

    We are predators, just like a lot of the animal kingdom, difference is we also have a conscience where I think most meat eaters would prefer their prey is dealt with humanly from birth to death.

    That said after reading this I broke the habit and got a cheese and tomato sandwich (yes I know where cheese comes from but for a change it wasn't pig or cow).

    20 cups of tea a day?!!!!!!
  • Sponsored links:


  • Rob7Lee said:

    5ft 11 and a half (the half is very important to me!), 10st 4, 30" waist and I can't actually recall the last day I didn't eat meat, outside of ill in bed and not eating anything was probably in the mid 90's.

    I drink far to much tea as well, maybe 20 cups a day (I know I know) so my milk intake is quite large also.

    Each to their own but I don't think I'd survive without our furry friends (love a burford brown as well but could pass on honey other than when ill).

    We are predators, just like a lot of the animal kingdom, difference is we also have a conscience where I think most meat eaters would prefer their prey is dealt with humanly from birth to death.

    That said after reading this I broke the habit and got a cheese and tomato sandwich (yes I know where cheese comes from but for a change it wasn't pig or cow).

    20 cups of tea a day?!!!!!!
    Milk goes in first on every one of them too!
  • What do the Vegans on here think about forcing domesticated animals to be vegans?

    By the way, I have no problem with people being Vegan, but don't force others to follow your view. like @ShootersHillGuru I am an animal lover and yet eat meat because I like it and even the best vegetarian or vegan foods don't touch on a flame grilled honey glazed slab of beef.

  • Mum - "What do you want for drinkydrink John, orange juice, milkshake, cordial?"

    6 yo John - "Can I have a pint of duck far please mama?"

    Mum - "Are you sure dear, that'll be your 6th pint today and it's only 9am"

    6 yo John "Oh"

    Mum (under breath) "greedy little fat fuck , won't see 9 at this rate ffs"
  • Some cracking Indian vegetarian restaurants in Drummond St (Euston), if your ever in the area.
    Fixed price lunch buffets are very good

    Can you get a chicken madras ?

    Did you read that before you posted it and think "this will make them laugh"?
    I was trying to clarify whether those restaurants you laud are Indian restaurants or Vegitarian only. I must admit I havn’t come accross too many vegetarian only curry houses.

    Chill for fuck sake.

  • Rob7Lee said:

    5ft 11 and a half (the half is very important to me!), 10st 4, 30" waist and I can't actually recall the last day I didn't eat meat, outside of ill in bed and not eating anything was probably in the mid 90's.

    I drink far to much tea as well, maybe 20 cups a day (I know I know) so my milk intake is quite large also.

    Each to their own but I don't think I'd survive without our furry friends (love a burford brown as well but could pass on honey other than when ill).

    We are predators, just like a lot of the animal kingdom, difference is we also have a conscience where I think most meat eaters would prefer their prey is dealt with humanly from birth to death.

    That said after reading this I broke the habit and got a cheese and tomato sandwich (yes I know where cheese comes from but for a change it wasn't pig or cow).

    20 cups of tea a day?!!!!!!
    I know, it's an addiction that only got worse when I gave up the booze. I blame my late mum, she was Tea mad and as soon as I could reach the kitchen counter (about aged 6) it was my job in the morning to get up first and go and make her a pot, proper like, loose tea, warm the pot etc - none of this tea bag malarkey.

    Rob7Lee said:

    5ft 11 and a half (the half is very important to me!), 10st 4, 30" waist and I can't actually recall the last day I didn't eat meat, outside of ill in bed and not eating anything was probably in the mid 90's.

    I drink far to much tea as well, maybe 20 cups a day (I know I know) so my milk intake is quite large also.

    Each to their own but I don't think I'd survive without our furry friends (love a burford brown as well but could pass on honey other than when ill).

    We are predators, just like a lot of the animal kingdom, difference is we also have a conscience where I think most meat eaters would prefer their prey is dealt with humanly from birth to death.

    That said after reading this I broke the habit and got a cheese and tomato sandwich (yes I know where cheese comes from but for a change it wasn't pig or cow).

    20 cups of tea a day?!!!!!!
    Milk goes in first on every one of them too!
    Depends........ if using a tea bag in the cup or not, if so that is wrong on so many levels it makes my blood boil!
  • Some cracking Indian vegetarian restaurants in Drummond St (Euston), if your ever in the area.
    Fixed price lunch buffets are very good

    Used to be a nice buffet veggie one up Angel Islington an all.
  • Missed It said:

    Stevelamb said:

    A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.


    Ok let me see you try and kill a cow with just your teeth then.
    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.

    I used to be vegetarian many years ago, but my own basic laziness and the fact that I don't actually like the taste of many vegetables led to me backsliding.

    It was a rabbit that made me seriously think about going back to being vegetarian. Out on a survival training exercise we had to trap, skin, gut and cook rabbits. It hits you when you have render a once living creature into its constituent parts to be eaten. The worst thing was that most everybody went without dinner that night. There was bugger all meat on the rabbits, a faff and a pain to prepare right, kind of stinky and basically the only option was to boil it. I ate mine because the poor thing had died and I couldn't let it just be a waste. It does bother me that so much food is chucked away in our modern society, and that the industrial scale food production to keep 60,000,000 people in the UK fed leads to so many animals being killed just to go in the bin.

    So today I'm kind of a weak willed vegetarian that doesn't really like vegetables. I have non-meat days, but also meat days (and a Sunday roast dinner at my mum's!)
    There isn't much meat on a rabbit, which is why people don't eat rabbit much these days. The same applies to other small creatures eaten around the world e.g. pigeon or guineapigs in south America. By contrast on say a pig, very little goes to waste, just about everything gets used.

    Isn't the whole point about vegetarianism that you are replacing meat with non animal protein (tofu, pulses, nuts etc) rather than whether you like vegetables or not? It's not as if meat eaters don't eat vegetables as well, I love meat AND I love vegetables, indeed I would rather give up cakes and biscuits than meat or vegetables.
  • Missed It said:

    Stevelamb said:

    A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.


    Ok let me see you try and kill a cow with just your teeth then.
    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.

    I used to be vegetarian many years ago, but my own basic laziness and the fact that I don't actually like the taste of many vegetables led to me backsliding.

    It was a rabbit that made me seriously think about going back to being vegetarian. Out on a survival training exercise we had to trap, skin, gut and cook rabbits. It hits you when you have render a once living creature into its constituent parts to be eaten. The worst thing was that most everybody went without dinner that night. There was bugger all meat on the rabbits, a faff and a pain to prepare right, kind of stinky and basically the only option was to boil it. I ate mine because the poor thing had died and I couldn't let it just be a waste. It does bother me that so much food is chucked away in our modern society, and that the industrial scale food production to keep 60,000,000 people in the UK fed leads to so many animals being killed just to go in the bin.

    So today I'm kind of a weak willed vegetarian that doesn't really like vegetables. I have non-meat days, but also meat days (and a Sunday roast dinner at my mum's!)
    There isn't much meat on a rabbit, which is why people don't eat rabbit much these days. The same applies to other small creatures eaten around the world e.g. pigeon or guineapigs in south America. By contrast on say a pig, very little goes to waste, just about everything gets used.

    Isn't the whole point about vegetarianism that you are replacing meat with non animal protein (tofu, pulses, nuts etc) rather than whether you like vegetables or not? It's not as if meat eaters don't eat vegetables as well, I love meat AND I love vegetables, indeed I would rather give up cakes and biscuits than meat or vegetables.
    I dont.
  • Missed It said:

    Stevelamb said:

    A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.


    Ok let me see you try and kill a cow with just your teeth then.
    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.

    I used to be vegetarian many years ago, but my own basic laziness and the fact that I don't actually like the taste of many vegetables led to me backsliding.

    It was a rabbit that made me seriously think about going back to being vegetarian. Out on a survival training exercise we had to trap, skin, gut and cook rabbits. It hits you when you have render a once living creature into its constituent parts to be eaten. The worst thing was that most everybody went without dinner that night. There was bugger all meat on the rabbits, a faff and a pain to prepare right, kind of stinky and basically the only option was to boil it. I ate mine because the poor thing had died and I couldn't let it just be a waste. It does bother me that so much food is chucked away in our modern society, and that the industrial scale food production to keep 60,000,000 people in the UK fed leads to so many animals being killed just to go in the bin.

    So today I'm kind of a weak willed vegetarian that doesn't really like vegetables. I have non-meat days, but also meat days (and a Sunday roast dinner at my mum's!)
    There isn't much meat on a rabbit, which is why people don't eat rabbit much these days. The same applies to other small creatures eaten around the world e.g. pigeon or guineapigs in south America. By contrast on say a pig, very little goes to waste, just about everything gets used.

    Isn't the whole point about vegetarianism that you are replacing meat with non animal protein (tofu, pulses, nuts etc) rather than whether you like vegetables or not? It's not as if meat eaters don't eat vegetables as well, I love meat AND I love vegetables, indeed I would rather give up cakes and biscuits than meat or vegetables.
    I'd also refer you to the first sentence of my post, where I admit to being too lazy to do it properly!
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