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The rise of the vegans.

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  • A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.

    Okay, I meant folk who eat meat as part of their diet, as opposed to people who just eat meat and nothing else.

  • So pleased this thread has turned into an interesting debate.
    In a few months time in Lee Green we will be having a viewing of the Film "Forks over Knives" with a live link to some of the people that took part in that film in the USA. If it is OK I will post details on here nearer the time. We might even be offering Vegan Donna kebabs, shredded duck with hoisin sauce,hot dogs,cheese burgers,pulled pork wraps,fish and chips, all the things that we call transition foods.
  • Or the Mini Club Sandwich
  • Stevelamb said:

    So pleased this thread has turned into an interesting debate.
    In a few months time in Lee Green we will be having a viewing of the Film "Forks over Knives" with a live link to some of the people that took part in that film in the USA. If it is OK I will post details on here nearer the time. We might even be offering Vegan Donna kebabs, shredded duck with hoisin sauce,hot dogs,cheese burgers,pulled pork wraps,fish and chips, all the things that we call transition foods.

    Can you clarify "transitional foods" please
  • I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed
  • Leuth said:

    I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed

    Hitler was a veggie and a dictator...just saying.
  • Leuth said:

    I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed

    if you have friends/family over and are getting a takeaway would you allow them to order meat?
  • Leuth said:

    I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed

    if you have friends/family over and are getting a takeaway would you allow them to order meat?
    Obviously. But we never have anyone over haha
  • Stevelamb said:

    So pleased this thread has turned into an interesting debate.
    In a few months time in Lee Green we will be having a viewing of the Film "Forks over Knives" with a live link to some of the people that took part in that film in the USA. If it is OK I will post details on here nearer the time. We might even be offering Vegan Donna kebabs, shredded duck with hoisin sauce,hot dogs,cheese burgers,pulled pork wraps,fish and chips, all the things that we call transition foods.

    Can you clarify "transitional foods" please
    Transitional Vegan food is food to replace meat,fish,egg and dairy whilst you get used to not having it. A bit like giving up smoking and using nicotine supplements to suppress the craving.
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  • Kill and skin the rabbit and grill its flesh, all in front of the child, then see what it chooses to eat ;)
  • Stevelamb said:

    A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.


    Ok let me see you try and kill a cow with just your teeth then.
    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.
    If that child grew up in a traditional rural/farming area, they would be very comfortable in the process of killing animals to eat them. In many parts of the world, people still buy live chickens
  • Greenie said:

    Leuth said:

    I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed

    Hitler was a veggie and a dictator...just saying.
    He was a meat eater.
  • JWADDICK said:

    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.

    What a load of bollocks! The average toddler will try to eat any and everything, including their own feet. It's just that apples are easier to catch than fucking a rabbit.

    True that
  • Leuth said:

    Kill and skin the rabbit and grill its flesh, all in front of the child, then see what it chooses to eat ;)

    Seen this done with pigeon and rabbit in front of hundreds of kids, and they happily eat the food after.
  • Leuth said:

    Kill and skin the rabbit and grill its flesh, all in front of the child, then see what it chooses to eat ;)

    Seen this done with pigeon and rabbit in front of hundreds of kids, and they happily eat the food after.
    Good! But I think it's healthier for the child to know first.
  • JWADDICK said:

    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.
    What a load of bollocks! The average toddler will try to eat any and everything, including their own feet. It's just that apples are easier to catch than fucking a rabbit.

    True that

    For that to happen you need two rabbits.
  • Leuth said:

    Leuth said:

    Kill and skin the rabbit and grill its flesh, all in front of the child, then see what it chooses to eat ;)

    Seen this done with pigeon and rabbit in front of hundreds of kids, and they happily eat the food after.
    Good! But I think it's healthier for the child to know first.
    Absolutely, now we're talking
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  • Straw man argument, that

    When kids put things in their mouths they're not trying to eat it, they're exploring whether it's edible. If they try biting into a just-dead squirrel or bird they're not likely to eat it - whereas with an apple they are. It's not about the rabbit being 'harder to catch' than an apple

  • edited July 2018
    Stevelamb said:

    A few of my friends are vegan, and having given them grief for not being able to enjoy a juicy steak or a bacon sandwich I gave it a go for a month.

    I felt more alert, less tired in the mornings and all round a lot more healthier.

    I've reverted to eating meat because I enjoy it, but I eat a lot less and I have more admiration for veganism.

    Biggest thing I missed, a proper cup of tea.

    That was probably not because of what you took out, but what you put in instead. If you now consume the same amount of veg (incl. the bean and pulses) that you ate when you were an admirable vegan, but add a piece of meat you like, you'll probably feel the same as your vegan self.

    I think the biggest problem with meat eaters, is that they probably don't eat enough veg to go with their meat...
    But there's no such thing as "meat eaters" anyway, as human meat eaters are omnivores. We're not lions or tigers who live on a 99-100% meat diet, even people with poor diets will be eating lots of plant based carbs as well, chips, bread, plus vegetable protein (e.g. baked beans) etc. I will have a nice chicken casserole tonight, but also enjoy hummus and falafel etc

    I agree that it's down to the balance in your diet. A nice stir fry, with lots of vegetables and a few pieces of lean chicken breast or beef will be just as healthy if not more healthy than the one with tofu in it, red meat in particular has nutrients that are really difficult to replicate with a vegan diet, as the body absorbs them easier. Our digestive system is after all designed to eat meat, chimpanzees for example also eat meat from time to time.

    As for the moral issues regarding intensive farming, isn't that a reason to eat less, but better quality meat, raised ethically, rather than not eating meat at all? Human civilisation has been based around rearing animals, and such livestock will have much lower food miles than most vegan alternatives which have to be imported.


    Ok let me see you try and kill a cow with just your teeth then.
    Put a four year old child in a room with an apple and a rabbit and see what that child chooses to eat. Until that child is taught to eat rabbit its natural instincts are not to.

    I used to be vegetarian many years ago, but my own basic laziness and the fact that I don't actually like the taste of many vegetables led to me backsliding.

    It was a rabbit that made me seriously think about going back to being vegetarian. Out on a survival training exercise we had to trap, skin, gut and cook rabbits. It hits you when you have render a once living creature into its constituent parts to be eaten. The worst thing was that most everybody went without dinner that night. There was bugger all meat on the rabbits, a faff and a pain to prepare right, kind of stinky and basically the only option was to boil it. I ate mine because the poor thing had died and I couldn't let it just be a waste. It does bother me that so much food is chucked away in our modern society, and that the industrial scale food production to keep 60,000,000 people in the UK fed leads to so many animals being killed just to go in the bin.

    So today I'm kind of a weak willed vegetarian that doesn't really like vegetables. I have non-meat days, but also meat days (and a Sunday roast dinner at my mum's!)
  • I absolutely hate Tofu, can't stand the stuff.
  • iainment said:

    Greenie said:

    Leuth said:

    I will add that my house has a strict no-meat policy. I'll eat meat when out and about but I'll remain veggie when cooking or getting takeaway. It's a policy that I would recommend as a way of cutting down meat.

    Most takeaway restaurants are yet to fully work out how to offer good vegetarian options, is something I've noticed

    Hitler was a veggie and a dictator...just saying.
    He was a meat eater.
    "Towards the end of his life, Adolf Hitler (1889–1945) followed a vegetarian diet." Wiki is your friend on this one.
  • I eat meat and like eating meat. I am also a real animal lover so I realise I have conflicting views and emotions which at present still win on being a carnivore.
    I do however have great respect for those that are more committed than I ever could be for animal welfare and would never condemn them. I think I’m very much a head in the sand person with regard to this issue. I am also fairly liberal in my views and really dislike the almost evangelical stance by some vegans and vegetarians. That’s me anyway.
  • I eat meat and like eating meat. I am also a real animal lover so I realise I have conflicting views and emotions which at present still win on being a carnivore.
    I do however have great respect for those that are more committed than I ever could be for animal welfare and would never condemn them. I think I’m very much a head in the sand person with regard to this issue. I am also fairly liberal in my views and really dislike the almost evangelical stance by some vegans and vegetarians. That’s me anyway.

    On point! this exactly
  • Straw man argument, that

    When kids put things in their mouths they're not trying to eat it, they're exploring whether it's edible. If they try biting into a just-dead squirrel or bird they're not likely to eat it - whereas with an apple they are. It's not about the rabbit being 'harder to catch' than an apple

    It was meant as a tongue in cheek comment Leroy. You do however make a good point, yes they are exploring to see if a thing is edible, i.e. can it be eaten. They may be put off by the texture, or taste but not simply the fact that it is meat rather than fruit which was the implication in the OP.
  • The great contradiction with some vegans is that they care so much about animal welfare, I'm referring to the type who may be concerned lowering their body fat, yet consumer drugs whose production causes havoc in the societies that they originate from, especially cocaine.
  • I eat meat and like eating meat. I am also a real animal lover so I realise I have conflicting views and emotions which at present still win on being a carnivore.
    I do however have great respect for those that are more committed than I ever could be for animal welfare and would never condemn them. I think I’m very much a head in the sand person with regard to this issue. I am also fairly liberal in my views and really dislike the almost evangelical stance by some vegans and vegetarians. That’s me anyway.

    Imo - Promoting veganism is not good for animal welfare. Eating ethically reared meat is good for animal welfare. Unless accepting that, in time, certain species will go extinct, is considered to be caring about their welfare
  • The great contradiction with some vegans is that they care so much about animal welfare, I'm referring to the type who may be concerned lowering their body fat, yet consumer drugs whose production causes havoc in the societies that they originate from, especially cocaine.

    So - Vegans = Bugleheads

    K
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