Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
To criticise The israeli human rights record is as much about Jews, as criticising Italy for its Roma policy is about Roman Catholics. Corbyn being anti Semitic is pure propaganda by Israeli sympathisers and has been grabbed by the tories who have nothing else left to attack him with.
To criticise The israeli human rights record is as much about Jews, as criticising Italy for its Roma policy is about Roman Catholics. Corbyn being anti Semitic is pure propaganda by Israeli sympathisers and has been grabbed by the tories who have nothing else left to attack him with.
then why when i make a thread about anti semitism, people start posting on the deplorable things the israeli government has done?
To criticise The israeli human rights record is as much about Jews, as criticising Italy for its Roma policy is about Roman Catholics. Corbyn being anti Semitic is pure propaganda by Israeli sympathisers and has been grabbed by the tories who have nothing else left to attack him with.
then why when i make a thread about anti semitism, people start posting on the deplorable things the israeli government has done?
Because that is the explanation of why he is attacked. He is anti Israeli so they play their usual anti Semitic card against him.
I do appreciate at most of this dialogue, even if we all don't always agree. Because of all that's happening in the States right now, I don't follow news and politics in the UK as closely as I used to. And so what usually ends up happening is I'll read about something, we'll then have 18 news cycles here, and then, as I did this morning, I'll read about three Jewish publications lambasting the Labour party, and then I have to sort out what's happened. And in something like this, where there's a lot of intricacy, history, a need to understand what has and (perhaps more importantly) has not been said, and of course there is political opportunism, as there always is, it can be difficult.
So I do appreciate these kinds of conversations. I think we can all agree that anti-semitism=bad.
To criticise The israeli human rights record is as much about Jews, as criticising Italy for its Roma policy is about Roman Catholics. Corbyn being anti Semitic is pure propaganda by Israeli sympathisers and has been grabbed by the tories who have nothing else left to attack him with.
then why when i make a thread about anti semitism, people start posting on the deplorable things the israeli government has done?
Because that is the explanation of why he is attacked. He is anti Israeli so they play their usual anti Semitic card against him.
Why are people “anti Israeli”. Is anyone anti Saudi? Anti Iranian? Anti American?
It is the government of Israel, not the state of Israel and its people Corbyn has a problem with. This, clearly, has not been communicated, and is partially why labour are struggling to deal with the problem.
I do appreciate at most of this dialogue, even if we all don't always agree. Because of all that's happening in the States right now, I don't follow news and politics in the UK as closely as I used to. And so what usually ends up happening is I'll read about something, we'll then have 18 news cycles here, and then, as I did this morning, I'll read about three Jewish publications lambasting the Labour party, and then I have to sort out what's happened. And in something like this, where there's a lot of intricacy, history, a need to understand what has and (perhaps more importantly) has not been said, and of course there is political opportunism, as there always is, it can be difficult.
So I do appreciate these kinds of conversations. I think we can all agree that anti-semitism=bad.
I remember the good old days when Charlton Life was about football .
I find these sort of threads and many of the non football ones very educational and informative and often learn about things I wouldn't elsewhere. Some are fascinating with the depth and breadth of knowledge on such a range of subjects.
I really enjoy seeing conflicting views and polar opposite positions articulated and justified and find it can help me see things from both sides with a more balanced perspective.
It's a real shame that vitriol and anger stunts the debate and prevents it developing to its natural conclusion as people tend to be so passionate in their beliefs they dig in and counter attack their position with closed ears so it turns into conflict rather than dialogue.
A microcosm reflection of society in general and the wider world perhaps and maybe an example as to why there are still so many conflicts and divisions.
If Charlton fans on a forum can't discuss and debate these issues that don't really impact them directly how can Israelis and Palestinians ever expect to do so tranquilly.
I remember the good old days when Charlton Life was about football .
I find these sort of threads and many of the non football ones very educational and informative and often learn about things I wouldn't elsewhere. Some are fascinating with the depth and breadth of knowledge on such a range of subjects.
I really enjoy seeing conflicting views and polar opposite positions articulated and justified and find it can help me see things from both sides with a more balanced perspective.
It's a real shame that vitriol and anger stunts the debate and prevents it developing to its natural conclusion as people tend to be so passionate in their beliefs they dig in and counter attack their position with closed ears so it turns into conflict rather than dialogue.
A microcosm reflection of society in general and the wider world perhaps and maybe an example as to why there are still so many conflicts and divisions.
If Charlton fans on a forum can't discuss and debate these issues that don't really impact them directly how can Israelis and Palestinians ever expect to do so tranquilly.
or rather why are some charlton fans instantly moving to the defensive about palestinian treatment in a thread about anti semitism in britain. One could be fooled into thinking that doing that in itself is anti semitic.
I remember the good old days when Charlton Life was about football .
I find these sort of threads and many of the non football ones very educational and informative and often learn about things I wouldn't elsewhere. Some are fascinating with the depth and breadth of knowledge on such a range of subjects.
I really enjoy seeing conflicting views and polar opposite positions articulated and justified and find it can help me see things from both sides with a more balanced perspective.
It's a real shame that vitriol and anger stunts the debate and prevents it developing to its natural conclusion as people tend to be so passionate in their beliefs they dig in and counter attack their position with closed ears so it turns into conflict rather than dialogue.
A microcosm reflection of society in general and the wider world perhaps and maybe an example as to why there are still so many conflicts and divisions.
If Charlton fans on a forum can't discuss and debate these issues that don't really impact them directly how can Israelis and Palestinians ever expect to do so tranquilly.
To criticise The israeli human rights record is as much about Jews, as criticising Italy for its Roma policy is about Roman Catholics. Corbyn being anti Semitic is pure propaganda by Israeli sympathisers and has been grabbed by the tories who have nothing else left to attack him with.
then why when i make a thread about anti semitism, people start posting on the deplorable things the israeli government has done?
Because that is the explanation of why he is attacked. He is anti Israeli so they play their usual anti Semitic card against him.
Why are people “anti Israeli”. Is anyone anti Saudi? Anti Iranian? Anti American?
It is the government of Israel, not the state of Israel and its people Corbyn has a problem with. This, clearly, has not been communicated, and is partially why labour are struggling to deal with the problem.
Obvious why people are anti Israel ( yes the state not it’s people). I’m anti Saudi. And anti Duchataletstan.
Sadly Jews don't help themselves on this matter. Just 14 months after brave British forces liberated the belsen death camp, Jewish terrorists bombed the British HQ in Jerusalem.
To this day the site of this atrocity, the king David hotel bears a plaque which blamed the British.
Maybe the Jewish press could demand a suitable and fittings tribute to those that perished that day. This would put right right history's biggest case of ingratitude.
RIP the 91
The bombing was carried out by Zionists not Jews per se. That’s the whole problem. No understanding of the difference.
Sadly Jews don't help themselves on this matter. Just 14 months after brave British forces liberated the belsen death camp, Jewish terrorists bombed the British HQ in Jerusalem.
To this day the site of this atrocity, the king David hotel bears a plaque which blamed the British.
Maybe the Jewish press could demand a suitable and fittings tribute to those that perished that day. This would put right right history's biggest case of ingratitude.
RIP the 91
Wow, this just about takes the biscuit as being the most overt anti Semitic thing on this thread.
Sadly Jews don't help themselves on this matter. Just 14 months after brave British forces liberated the belsen death camp, Jewish terrorists bombed the British HQ in Jerusalem.
To this day the site of this atrocity, the king David hotel bears a plaque which blamed the British.
Maybe the Jewish press could demand a suitable and fittings tribute to those that perished that day. This would put right right history's biggest case of ingratitude.
RIP the 91
The bombing was carried out by Zionists not Jews per se. That’s the whole problem. No understanding of the difference.
You're right - but the same inability to accept that difference is also displayed by senior figures in the Jewish establishment.
Below is a extract from evidence to the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee in July 2016 by first, the Chief Rabbi and, secondly, the Chairman of the Jewish Leadership Council (JLC):
Opposing ‘Zionism’
26.In an article for The Daily Telegraph in May, the Chief Rabbi criticised attempts by Labour members and activists to separate Zionism from Judaism as a faith, arguing that their claims are “fictional”.41 In evidence to us, he stressed that “Zionism has been an integral part of Judaism from the dawn of our faith”. He stated that “spelling out the right of the Jewish people to live within secure borders with self-determination in their own country, which they had been absent from for 2,000 years—that is what Zionism is”. His view was that “If you are an anti-Zionist, you are anti everything I have just mentioned”.42
27.Similarly, CST and the JLC describe Zionism as “an ideological belief in the authenticity of Jewish peoplehood and that the Jewish people have the right to a state”.43 Sir Mick Davis, Chairman of the JLC, told us that criticising Zionism is the same as antisemitism, because:
Zionism is so totally identified with how the Jew thinks of himself, and is so associated with the right of the Jewish people to have their own country and to have self-determination within that country, that if you attack Zionism, you attack the very fundamentals of how the Jews believe in themselves.44
41 The Daily Telegraph (Ephraim Mirvis), Ken Livingstone and the hard Left are spreading the insidious virus of anti-Semitism, 3 May 2016
42 Oral evidence taken on 14 July 2016, Q418
43 Community Security Trust and the Jewish Leadership Council, submission to the Chakrabarti Inquiry, June 2016
As a supporter of the Melbourne 'Hakoah' all over Victoria for three years in my youth I can confirm that they were a Jewish based club. I will continue to big-up Ryan unless he makes apologist statements regarding Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Have seen him three times and value him as decent CB cover.
As a supporter of the Melbourne 'Hakoah' all over Victoria for three years in my youth I can confirm that they were a Jewish based club. I will continue to big-up Ryan unless he makes apologist statements regarding Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Have seen him three times and value him as decent CB cover.
Comments
There is a big racism/anti-muslim problem within the Conservative party. For example: https://news.sky.com/story/appalling-cynicism-tories-control-council-by-reinstating-racist-woman-11359289
Why is one covered weekly and yet the other barely mentioned?
Thought he looked very solid at left back against Dulwich. Which is good because I fear he's going to be one of our reserve left backs this season.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/revealed-nine-tory-local-election-12465640
It IS a labour issue, even the labour party members on here accept that now, even if begrudgingly.
For the record I condemn all discrimination in all parties.
Now, back to the thread topic which is labour anti-Semitism.
So I do appreciate these kinds of conversations. I think we can all agree that anti-semitism=bad.
It is the government of Israel, not the state of Israel and its people Corbyn has a problem with. This, clearly, has not been communicated, and is partially why labour are struggling to deal with the problem.
I really enjoy seeing conflicting views and polar opposite positions articulated and justified and find it can help me see things from both sides with a more balanced perspective.
It's a real shame that vitriol and anger stunts the debate and prevents it developing to its natural conclusion as people tend to be so passionate in their beliefs they dig in and counter attack their position with closed ears so it turns into conflict rather than dialogue.
A microcosm reflection of society in general and the wider world perhaps and maybe an example as to why there are still so many conflicts and divisions.
If Charlton fans on a forum can't discuss and debate these issues that don't really impact them directly how can Israelis and Palestinians ever expect to do so tranquilly.
"Labour in crisis? Or a SMEAR(tm) from the mainstream media elites? "
Below is a extract from evidence to the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee in July 2016 by first, the Chief Rabbi and, secondly, the Chairman of the Jewish Leadership Council (JLC):
Opposing ‘Zionism’
26.In an article for The Daily Telegraph in May, the Chief Rabbi criticised attempts by Labour members and activists to separate Zionism from Judaism as a faith, arguing that their claims are “fictional”.41 In evidence to us, he stressed that “Zionism has been an integral part of Judaism from the dawn of our faith”. He stated that “spelling out the right of the Jewish people to live within secure borders with self-determination in their own country, which they had been absent from for 2,000 years—that is what Zionism is”. His view was that “If you are an anti-Zionist, you are anti everything I have just mentioned”.42
27.Similarly, CST and the JLC describe Zionism as “an ideological belief in the authenticity of Jewish peoplehood and that the Jewish people have the right to a state”.43 Sir Mick Davis, Chairman of the JLC, told us that criticising Zionism is the same as antisemitism, because:
Zionism is so totally identified with how the Jew thinks of himself, and is so associated with the right of the Jewish people to have their own country and to have self-determination within that country, that if you attack Zionism, you attack the very fundamentals of how the Jews believe in themselves.44
41 The Daily Telegraph (Ephraim Mirvis), Ken Livingstone and the hard Left are spreading the insidious virus of anti-Semitism, 3 May 2016
42 Oral evidence taken on 14 July 2016, Q418
43 Community Security Trust and the Jewish Leadership Council, submission to the Chakrabarti Inquiry, June 2016
44 Oral evidence taken on 14 July 2016, Q470
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/13605.htm