Yep had to be the same team after @Leuth did the reverse curse on Jennings.
Stokes may well work at 3 in Sri Lanka and I hope he does well. I'm not so sure he will be up to it against the swinging ball. I hope he's not there for next year's ashes.
Yep had to be the same team after @Leuth did the reverse curse on Jennings.
Stokes may well work at 3 in Sri Lanka and I hope he does well. I'm not so sure he will be up to it against the swinging ball. I hope he's not there for next year's ashes.
If he scores runs then he will be. This is setting itself up for Bairstow to be 'urged' to bat at 3, with Foakes keeping wicket next year. But, Stokes appears to be batting with a bit more maturity recently- however, in the short term the merry go round continues simply because Root doesnt want to bat at 3.
@cantersaddick is there any chance of Pope or even Curren batting 3 for Surrey early next season to force away into the ashes team?
Don Bess is trying to open at Somerset, that's the reason I ask.
In short no.
Borthwick has that slot pretty much nailed down. He has been consistent but not spectacular there for a couple of seasons now. He's highly rated and I doubt they would move him. When he missed out end of season Roy was the one who batted 3 and Stewart has talked on the radio/ in the papers about wanting Roy to bat 3 in the longer format and being a potential England player there.
Pope spend most of last year at 6 and that's where he scored the majority of his runs. I think he is unlikely to bat above 5 in our strongest side (although we are not likely to get our strongest side out much next year due to call ups). He is better off down the order imo and isn't that suited to the top 3. Sam has spent most of his like at 7 or 8. All the while he has such a high bowling workload he wont be mived up the order. Although there has always been talk of him eventually being a 4/5.
Yep had to be the same team after @Leuth did the reverse curse on Jennings.
Stokes may well work at 3 in Sri Lanka and I hope he does well. I'm not so sure he will be up to it against the swinging ball. I hope he's not there for next year's ashes.
If he scores runs then he will be. This is setting itself up for Bairstow to be 'urged' to bat at 3, with Foakes keeping wicket next year. But, Stokes appears to be batting with a bit more maturity recently- however, in the short term the merry go round continues simply because Root doesnt want to bat at 3.
Root shouldn't bat 3 as captain. With the pressure of captaincy we need him to bat where he is most comfortable in order to get the most out of our best player (and only world class batsman). He needs to be coming in with a platform and currently we don't have 2 openers capable of delivering that more often than not so he should bat 4 in order to give himself as much chance of that.
If we had options in the top 3 it would be fine. The debate would be whixh of our many All rounders to drop. The trouble is we don't have a settled top 3 so we are moving our All rounders all over the place.
Very happy to see the same XI, which I have advocated since after the first innings of the first test, and it was amazing how many debates were going on around me at the ground and in the bars afterwards on this subject.
The number three position is a difficult one. Many of our best number threes have been openers at county level but that is currently a difficult area in itself with Cook gone.
Asia is different as you are likely to be facing spin very early on, regardless of where you bat, and the wickets aren't the fastest so different skill levels are required; look at Keaton Jennings, who has made two centuries in Asia and next to no runs in England. It's not like the number three needs to be prepared to fast a barrage from the new ball.
Ali wasn't the right man and that realistically leaves Root, Stokes, Buttler and Bairstow. Bairstow's ruled out due to the unchanged team, Root doesn't want it and Stokes batted more cagily than Buttler at Galle so I think it's a good choice.
We'll see. Or I hope I'll see some of it.
Back in Thailand now, the first two nights of my return being spent in hospital suffering from Asian flu picked up somewhere in Sri Lanka! Lion Lager obviously wasn't the antidote to all known tropical diseases!
Ok, i get that Root doesnt want to bat at 3, but its not the pressure of being captain that should dictate this, after all, most of our recent captains have either opened or batted at 3....Strauss,Atherton,Vaughan,Hussain,Cook . Yes, there might not be the solid Platform in the top 3 at the moment, but i would suggest that that also hasnt been the case in our openers since maybe Strauss and Tresco. I too dont think that Stokes is the answer, but he's certainly a better bet than Mo tbh, who is a walking wicket if there's any pressure on him - has the backbone of a plastic fish in a Christmas cracker.
Yes, there might not be the solid Platform in the top 3 at the moment, but i would suggest that that also hasnt been the case in our openers since maybe Strauss and Tresco.
Didn't rate the top 3 of Strauss, Cook and Trott then?
Very happy to see the same XI, which I have advocated since after the first innings of the first test, and it was amazing how many debates were going on around me at the ground and in the bars afterwards on this subject.
The number three position is a difficult one. Many of our best number threes have been openers at county level but that is currently a difficult area in itself with Cook gone.
Asia is different as you are likely to be facing spin very early on, regardless of where you bat, and the wickets aren't the fastest so different skill levels are required; look at Keaton Jennings, who has made two centuries in Asia and next to no runs in England. It's not like the number three needs to be prepared to fast a barrage from the new ball.
Ali wasn't the right man and that realistically leaves Root, Stokes, Buttler and Bairstow. Bairstow's ruled out due to the unchanged team, Root doesn't want it and Stokes batted more cagily than Buttler at Galle so I think it's a good choice.
We'll see. Or I hope I'll see some of it.
Back in Thailand now, the first two nights of my return being spent in hospital suffering from Asian flu picked up somewhere in Sri Lanka! Lion Lager obviously wasn't the antidote to all known tropical diseases!
Yes, there might not be the solid Platform in the top 3 at the moment, but i would suggest that that also hasnt been the case in our openers since maybe Strauss and Tresco.
Didn't rate the top 3 of Strauss, Cook and Trott then?
Wow, yes, what a top 3 that was, and KP to come in after ! - delicious.
Ok, i get that Root doesnt want to bat at 3, but its not the pressure of being captain that should dictate this, after all, most of our recent captains have either opened or batted at 3....Strauss,Atherton,Vaughan,Hussain,Cook . Yes, there might not be the solid Platform in the top 3 at the moment, but i would suggest that that also hasnt been the case in our openers since maybe Strauss and Tresco. I too dont think that Stokes is the answer, but he's certainly a better bet than Mo tbh, who is a walking wicket if there's any pressure on him - has the backbone of a plastic fish in a Christmas cracker.
Yes except they were all natural top 3 players. So it was simply asking them to captain and do what they had always done. Root is a natural middle order player and so asking him to bat 3 is asking him to bat outside of what is his natural game and captain as well.
3 and 4 are very different roles in tests.
Vaughan opened early in his test career but was very vocal about not opening whilst captain and you need some time between coming off the field and batting. Straus also publicly discussed a move to 3 for the same reasons (this was before Trott was found).
Root started as an opener, and has always typically opened (or 3) until becoming captain. He always opened for Yorkshire.
He has batted 51 times as an opener or 3 in Tests against 49 times as no 4 (of which obviously the vast majority will have been over the past 2/3 seasons)
Root started as an opener, and has always typically opened (or 3) until becoming captain. He always opened for Yorkshire.
He has batted 51 times as an opener or 3 in Tests against 49 times as no 4 (of which obviously the vast majority will have been over the past 2/3 seasons)
He hasn't opened for England in about 4 years and hasn't opened for Yorkshire (other than filling in the odd one off time) since he broke into the England side.
Whether he did it in the past or not is fairly irrelevant to whether he is a natural in the top 3. And he clearly isn't.
Root started as an opener, and has always typically opened (or 3) until becoming captain. He always opened for Yorkshire.
He has batted 51 times as an opener or 3 in Tests against 49 times as no 4 (of which obviously the vast majority will have been over the past 2/3 seasons)
He hasn't opened for England in about 4 years and hasn't opened for Yorkshire (other than filling in the odd one off time) since he broke into the England side.
Whether he did it in the past or not is fairly irrelevant to whether he is a natural in the top 3. And he clearly isn't.
Why would he 'clearly' not be a 'natural in the top 3' if thats where he's played most of his career ?! - doesnt make sense.
Of course he probably hasnt opened for Yorkshire for a while - because he's hardly playing for them recently because of his England commitments- a whole variety of different variables come in, like Yorkshire forming a new solid opening partnership they dont want to upset,team spirit etc- wasnt it Jimmy who went about 4 seasons without playing a game for Lancs?
But ultimately, Root has more experience in the top 3 than at no 4 - and i think we both agree that he has enough skill to bat anywhere tbh.
We could argue this point all night and not agree - but i think that your argument is flawed.England have a problem at 3, Root is a (now seasoned) player who could bat at 3, but unlike most other recent England captains refuses to do so. I suppose its his prerogative, but i dont think it benefits England to do so.
Comments
Stokes may well work at 3 in Sri Lanka and I hope he does well. I'm not so sure he will be up to it against the swinging ball. I hope he's not there for next year's ashes.
Don Bess is trying to open at Somerset, that's the reason I ask.
This is setting itself up for Bairstow to be 'urged' to bat at 3, with Foakes keeping wicket next year.
But, Stokes appears to be batting with a bit more maturity recently- however, in the short term the merry go round continues simply because Root doesnt want to bat at 3.
Borthwick has that slot pretty much nailed down. He has been consistent but not spectacular there for a couple of seasons now. He's highly rated and I doubt they would move him. When he missed out end of season Roy was the one who batted 3 and Stewart has talked on the radio/ in the papers about wanting Roy to bat 3 in the longer format and being a potential England player there.
Pope spend most of last year at 6 and that's where he scored the majority of his runs. I think he is unlikely to bat above 5 in our strongest side (although we are not likely to get our strongest side out much next year due to call ups). He is better off down the order imo and isn't that suited to the top 3. Sam has spent most of his like at 7 or 8. All the while he has such a high bowling workload he wont be mived up the order. Although there has always been talk of him eventually being a 4/5.
If we had options in the top 3 it would be fine. The debate would be whixh of our many All rounders to drop. The trouble is we don't have a settled top 3 so we are moving our All rounders all over the place.
The number three position is a difficult one. Many of our best number threes have been openers at county level but that is currently a difficult area in itself with Cook gone.
Asia is different as you are likely to be facing spin very early on, regardless of where you bat, and the wickets aren't the fastest so different skill levels are required; look at Keaton Jennings, who has made two centuries in Asia and next to no runs in England. It's not like the number three needs to be prepared to fast a barrage from the new ball.
Ali wasn't the right man and that realistically leaves Root, Stokes, Buttler and Bairstow. Bairstow's ruled out due to the unchanged team, Root doesn't want it and Stokes batted more cagily than Buttler at Galle so I think it's a good choice.
We'll see. Or I hope I'll see some of it.
Back in Thailand now, the first two nights of my return being spent in hospital suffering from Asian flu picked up somewhere in Sri Lanka! Lion Lager obviously wasn't the antidote to all known tropical diseases!
I too dont think that Stokes is the answer, but he's certainly a better bet than Mo tbh, who is a walking wicket if there's any pressure on him - has the backbone of a plastic fish in a Christmas cracker.
3 and 4 are very different roles in tests.
Vaughan opened early in his test career but was very vocal about not opening whilst captain and you need some time between coming off the field and batting. Straus also publicly discussed a move to 3 for the same reasons (this was before Trott was found).
He has batted 51 times as an opener or 3 in Tests against 49 times as no 4 (of which obviously the vast majority will have been over the past 2/3 seasons)
Whether he did it in the past or not is fairly irrelevant to whether he is a natural in the top 3. And he clearly isn't.
Of course he probably hasnt opened for Yorkshire for a while - because he's hardly playing for them recently because of his England commitments- a whole variety of different variables come in, like Yorkshire forming a new solid opening partnership they dont want to upset,team spirit etc- wasnt it Jimmy who went about 4 seasons without playing a game for Lancs?
But ultimately, Root has more experience in the top 3 than at no 4 - and i think we both agree that he has enough skill to bat anywhere tbh.
We could argue this point all night and not agree - but i think that your argument is flawed.England have a problem at 3, Root is a (now seasoned) player who could bat at 3, but unlike most other recent England captains refuses to do so. I suppose its his prerogative, but i dont think it benefits England to do so.
120-4 at lunch
Jennnings 1 (8)
Burns 43 (81)
Stokes 19 (27)
Root 14 (23)
Buttler 38* (32)
Ali 4* (9)
Jennings out to seam, the rest to spin.
Ali gone for 10
Foakes out for 19, caught off a bottom edge onto pad by slip
Buttler 58* (58)
First Test we were 164-6 but then Foakes and Curran took us to 252-7. Could do with Buttler and Curran doing the same again.
Replay shows there was no contact with the bat.
Foakes just walks off without reviewing.
171-7