he may have decreased the possibility , but shafted ? Fuck me get behind the team and see what happens. I am really enjoying the atmosphere down there can we all not see what transpires before throwing the towell in
Monthly losses are now down to half that and the sale of Grant, offloading of Clarke and Ajose effectively covers the spend till the summer.
With Konsa and Lookman, he hasn’t actually lost money on Charlton for years.
He’s just giving Bowyer the absolute minimum now to work with.
Agree. But the elephant in the room is what happens next? In the summer the 'saleable asset' cupboard will be bare as most of the first team will be able to walk. How does our glorious leader fund the running costs then?
Boycotts might touch owners at other clubs but they haven't moved him. I have no idea what will persuade the stubborn fool to leave.
The boycott hasn't moved him because too many people haven't supported it. Securing their seat and a cheaper deal has mattered most to too many. That's their call and you have to respect it but boycotting can only be judged when successfully implemented. If a majority of season ticket holders withheld their purchases until at least the last minute (end of July) and were prepared to pay match-by-match or suffer the extra £50 or whatever, he might be moved further. Those who say he doesn't care about money are simply wrong as this window and all his other penny-pinching confirms. Voting with our feet is all that's left - he's had the benefit in the last couple of month's of the Bowyer effect and the false dawn of serious promotion hopes which I think have now been laid bare.
Tomorrow we play Fleetwood in the league with a 'strike force' of Reeco Hackett-Fairchild and Wilberforce Ocran. The decline of this club in the last decade is sad.
As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.
Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.
To be clear, £8m might be the Charlton operating loss or the NET operating cost. The actual operating costs were £21-£22mm in 2016/17, against revenue of £7.5m. In my view it's highly unlikely they were less than £15m in 2017/18 and they were probably more like £18m.
The comparison then is £4m at AFCW with £15m/£18m (in 17/18) at Charlton - not £8m. I believe Andy Holt budgets to lose £750k of £2m turnover.
Tomorrow we play Fleetwood in the league with a 'strike force' of Reeco Hackett-Fairchild and Wilberforce Ocran. The decline of this club in the last decade is sad.
Boycotts might touch owners at other clubs but they haven't moved him. I have no idea what will persuade the stubborn fool to leave.
The boycott hasn't moved him because too many people haven't supported it. Securing their seat and a cheaper deal has mattered most to too many. That's their call and you have to respect it but boycotting can only be judged when successfully implemented. If a majority of season ticket holders withheld their purchases until at least the last minute (end of July) and were prepared to pay match-by-match or suffer the extra £50 or whatever, he might be moved further. Those who say he doesn't care about money are simply wrong as this window and all his other penny-pinching confirms. Voting with our feet is all that's left - he's had the benefit in the last couple of month's of the Bowyer effect and the false dawn of serious promotion hopes which I think have now been laid bare.
A boycott will never be fully implemented and he has the means to cover the losses. Somebody with less financial clout would have caved in.
He'll go when he's good and ready but as for when that is who knows? I think what's most evident is how stubborn he is and his determination never to admit he's wrong.
Monthly losses are now down to half that and the sale of Grant, offloading of Clarke and Ajose effectively covers the spend till the summer.
With Konsa and Lookman, he hasn’t actually lost money on Charlton for years.
He’s just giving Bowyer the absolute minimum now to work with.
Agree. But the elephant in the room is what happens next? In the summer the 'saleable asset' cupboard will be bare as most of the first team will be able to walk. How does our glorious leader fund the running costs then?
My guess he be looking at off loading Taylor in the summer.
Eaves was a pipe dream, because Scully was only going to let him go for 1.5 to 2 million because he didn't want to loose a player under contract on the cheap and had proved his worth at Gillingham over the last 12 months.
I didn't think it would take too much to get O'Shea or Norwood from Bury and Tranmere but maybe they weren't on our radar ?
More likely he didnt want to lose the man whose goals will probably keep them in the Division and would rather see him go for a free with them as a League One club rather than a League Two team without him (Of course that might happen but he's showing ambition rather than resignation) - Shame we dont have an owner who doesnt have the same approach instead of always wanting a bit more money
Yes that is true But do you think he would have turned down 2 million. What happens in the world of football is at the beginning of the window a well run small football club would have alerted other clubs by the network of agents, media etc that a big offer and only a big offer could see Tom Eaves depart who is only 26 but hadn't any profile until he went to Gillingham.
This would give the manager and scouts at the Kent club time to check out possible replacements in say Norwood and O'Shea who have good records in League 2. Both players would be sold by their clubs for about 400K each and after agent fees a profit of 1 million or so to Gillingham and their owner Scully which is a good deal. He looses Eaves and Parker but replaces with two goal scorers.
I know this might sound simplictic but this is what the likes of Peterborough have been doing for years. Barry Fry would wager this is the only way to survive in the lower divisions.
Eaves was a pipe dream, because Scully was only going to let him go for 1.5 to 2 million because he didn't want to loose a player under contract on the cheap and had proved his worth at Gillingham over the last 12 months.
I didn't think it would take too much to get O'Shea or Norwood from Bury and Tranmere but maybe they weren't on our radar ?
More likely he didnt want to lose the man whose goals will probably keep them in the Division and would rather see him go for a free with them as a League One club rather than a League Two team without him (Of course that might happen but he's showing ambition rather than resignation) - Shame we dont have an owner who doesnt have the same approach instead of always wanting a bit more money
Yes that is true But do you think he would have turned down 2 million. What happens in the world of football is at the beginning of the window a well run small football club would have alerted other clubs by the network of agents, media etc that a big offer and only a big offer could see Tom Eaves depart who is only 26 but hadn't any profile until he went to Gillingham.
This would give the manager and scouts at the Kent club time to check out possible replacements in say Norwood and O'Shea who have good records in League 2. Both players would be sold by their clubs for about 400K each and after agent fees a profit of 1 million or so to Gillingham and their owner Scully which is a good deal. He looses Eaves and Parker but replaces with two goal scorers.
I know this might sound simplictic but this is what the likes of Peterborough have been doing for years. Barry Fry would wager this is the only way to survive in the lower divisions.
True but its a risk doing it in January because of the panic buying and the reluctance of other teams to sell their players for that same reason
Definitely get where your coming from and Gillingham probably would have sold had they received an offer that was impossible to reject yet probably would have been easier for them had they cashed in on Eaves in the summer - Guess like Grant though there was no guarantee that he would reach the scoring levels that he has done so they probably thought it would be easier to get him to sign a new Contract at that time
I imagine the team are scouring the free agents list today
That’s our only hope for another striker now, right?
Some of the comedians on CL, you know the guys who said Grant was only any good because of Lyle Taylor will now suggest that out of conditions former Perm players will get up to speed in a week !
The thought we can replace the fastest young player in League 1 with some aging player who JJ can beat over 30 yards is comical yet sad at the same time.
Signing Darren Bent would give the whole place a lift at the very least. It would also add experience, leadership and know how. he isnt' the Darren Bent of old, but he hasn't forgot his trade. would be a fairy tale last hurrah.
i actually think Lee Erwin could be a good shout. Young, hopefully hungry to impress, scores goals and i cant imagine he'd cost that much in wages etc..
for what it's worth, I thought Parker had a very good game against us last year when they turned us over on New Years Day. Yes we are fucked off , but Bowyer has developed a seige mentality within the squad, let's hope he can keep that up, he has also developed a feel good factor with the fans. Don't let this ruin that, and what I mean by that is a the first bad result everyone going mental, we have to see how this pans out over the next month, when we get Taylor, Aribo and Pearce back, if it then really goes belly up , I will be the first screaming blue murder, but right now Bowyer deserves us the fans to give him and the players the backing we have done so far this season. This is my club , my team and I will continue to support them and the badge.
Aribo is back running, Taylor returns in a fortnight, Bowyer's problem is that only one of Marshall, Morgan, Djiksteel or Lapslie will make the bench! We made three decent signings in the window but those returning from injuries are like a major strengthening for a promotion push. That's without Page and Pearce due back later this month. Am I alone in being exited by the Parker signing?
As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.
Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.
To be clear, £8m might be the Charlton operating loss or the NET operating cost. The actual operating costs were £21-£22mm in 2016/17, against revenue of £7.5m. In my view it's highly unlikely they were less than £15m in 2017/18 and they were probably more like £18m.
The comparison then is £4m at AFCW with £15m/£18m (in 17/18) at Charlton - not £8m. I believe Andy Holt budgets to lose £750k of £2m turnover.
@PragueAddick you can't compare Wimbledon or Stanley as similar businesses to us. They don't have the same over heads of ground, training ground, acedemy etc. On a side do you think that either will be viable in the medium term as league 1 clubs?
Airman has been quite clear that the club can get no where near breakeven in league 1, nore the championship. Like Bolton and others, the Premier league money bloated the infrastructure.
Promotion would increase revenue but nowhere near enough to fund a competitive championship team. This isn't a problem unique to Charlton or indeed Roland. It's the same for every club over a critical mass that doesn't have a "sugar daddy".
for what it's worth, I thought Parker had a very good game against us last year when they turned us over on New Years Day. Yes we are fucked off , but Bowyer has developed a seige mentality within the squad, let's hope he can keep that up, he has also developed a feel good factor with the fans. Don't let this ruin that, and what I mean by that is a the first bad result everyone going mental, we have to see how this pans out over the next month, when we get Taylor, Aribo and Pearce back, if it then really goes belly up , I will be the first screaming blue murder, but right now Bowyer deserves us the fans to give him and the players the backing we have done so far this season. This is my club , my team and I will continue to support them and the badge.
Aribo is back running, Taylor returns in a fortnight, Bowyer's problem is that only one of Marshall, Morgan, Djiksteel or Lapslie will make the bench! We made three decent signings in the window but those returning from injuries are like a major strengthening for a promotion push. That's without Page and Pearce due back later this month. Am I alone in being exited by the Parker signing?
Yes maybe, having spoke to a Gills fan at work, he is astonished that we have signed Parker, saying the only positive is that he 'runs around a lot'.
Holmes was a bang average league 1 player who bizarrely was capable of trying the outrageous. Probably to the detriment of the team and his all round effectiveness. When it worked it looked fantastic, but how many times did he try it.
He had to try the outrageous because of the shit around him, especially under Slade.
We should know doubt move on as I am sure a few will be on here to say shortly, but you have a short memory if you don't remember what he did for us in the 18 months he was here.
If he was so good, how comes he has only played a handful of games above league 1 in his career. I admit I could be wrong, but every championship manager over the last, what 5 years?
But your arguing he was a bang average League 1 player, now you are referring to the Championship. Holmes was far above average in our side, and was a late bloomer.
OK I'll phrase it another way, how many time did Holmes finish above average, mid table, in league one? If he was a late bloomer, he didn't bloom for long did he, signing for Oxford and Gillingham says bang average. If he had signed for Barnsley or Sunderland, that would hint at above average wouldn't it?
What a ridiculous comment. Holmes's ability could clearly be seen on the pitch. Class player.
I'll ask again, if he is/was so good has he never played for an above average league 1 club, a part from a hand full of games at Sheffield United?
He started his career very late? It's a silly point and you know it. You're trying to correlate ability with League position when no real relationship exists. There are too many variables.
On the basis of your theory, Matt Le Tissier was a bang average Premier League player.
Le Tiss played for his boyhood club through out his career, turned down moves to Chelsea etc. Unless Holmes was a boyhood Northampton, Oxford and Gillingham fan it's not a good comparison.
He could have also appointed a yes man manager in the summer, sold BFG, not signed Taylor, disband the u23s etc etc he didn't.
Because Roland is an arse doesn't make everything he does bad. This isn't aimed at you @Airman Brown it just happens to be your tweet I am quoting. The RD situation is similar to a reverse of the Corbyn attack dogs on twitter, no one can give him any credit for anything with out being attacked on here. Everything that goes wrong is his fault. I am waiting for someone to suggest he stopped Bristol City signing another striker tbh.
I don’t really understand your point. He is damaging the club (his asset) every week he remains and now he has allowed a situation which makes its future still more precarious because the chances of promotion have been reduced. In lieu of any executive management that is entirely down to him.
I agree that the detail of what happens in the transfer window is not necessarily down to him. It may even be that Bowyer and Gallen misjudged the situation, because after all they are not vastly experienced in transfer dealings and have no one around them who is as support. But I do know that maximising the team’s chances of automatic promotion is in everyone’s interest, including Duchatelet.
Since Eisa was a loan deal there is no evidence that he was prepared to invest even a couple of hundred thousand of the Grant cash in making that outcome more likely. Instead his priority was evidently to claw back more of this season’s operating loss. That is foolish, in my view, and the fact that he hasn’t done other foolish things such as those you mention doesn’t change that.
There is a real risk that the club falls off a cliff at the end of the season and if that happens he will lose out financially as well as us losing out as fans. Be very clear, the club cannot cut its way to break even. There is no equilibrium point. It can only bleed itself to death.
I agree totally with everything you said, but isn't the real, current, football issue that we don't have an owner who is prepared to pump 10s of millions of pounds into the club. Not the fact that the owner is RD?
Yes lots of things in his gift aren't right, no fit for purpose ceo for 5 years doesn't help, no director of football, the lack of day to day managment etc. As you say we can't break even, outside of the prem, under any circumstances.
If he sold tomorrow, as fans, we would actually want a new owner that INCREASED the annual losses in the short term, to maybe reduce them in the medium term, to possibly even make a small profit somewhere down the line. Not a lot to ask is it.
Fair questions. I've worked in biz all my life so I 'm certainly not one of those fans of any club who think there's a magic money tree. And I also accept that Fan ownership is almost impossible unless virtually every club has the same system, as in Germany.
As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.
Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.
AFCW play in a former non-league ground and I doubt Accrington have upgraded much since they were in a similar position, while we have a capacity of 27k in an ex-premiership stadium with additional costs that come with that and we run a 2nd tier academy, have extensive scouting network and crazily have players on above average Championship wages. No way we could run a budget of £2m or even £4m, without closing the academy, East Stand and making cuts that would make Phillip Hammond seem beneficial.
Only formation we’ve got the players to do is Robbo’s or 4-3-3 now. Roland please just have a cardiac already.
We’ll stick with the diamond with Igor or Parker in Grant’s place. We don’t have enough wide players to regularly play with wingers.
I was more looking overall not just this weekend. If we play 4231 or 433 we have two for every position.
I’m just trying to be positive to be fair.
That’s also the case for the 442 diamond. Can’t see Bowyer switching to a 1 striker formation, just isn’t his preference and I think we’re better for it.
Totally agree. Bowyer won't play only 1 up front again, unless there's no other option.
At Posh, didn't we start with 4-2-3-1 with only Karlan up front on his own, before bringing Reeeco alongside him mid-2nd half reverting to diamond? And looking much more dangerous after.
We'll see Parker pencilled in to play in tandem with Taylor. Perhaps Igor, if he's ever fit enough, or Fosu at a pinch.
Left field view: Parker has hold up play in his game too. Perhaps could also cover Taylor, if necessary?
Bowyer on Gallen's role & the signing of Parker. “Steve recommended him and he became available. I trust Steve, he hasn’t let us down yet if you look at the recruitment that we’ve got so far.
“You have to look in the situation where we were it was difficult because there aren’t many strikers out there and everyone wants to hold onto their strikers and their best players and last night was a difficult situation. We tried so hard to bring in more.
“We had someone at their ground waiting to sign but they needed papers to bring someone else in before he could go. We can’t control that. We have a budget and we can’t go and buy a striker for £1.5m or whatever Sunderland has just paid. We don’t have that budget. We have what we have and we’re doing well with that.
“What we do have though is a togetherness, that’s the whole club and that makes a lot of difference. So for me I’m still optimistic and I’m still happy and we have to stick together. What I do know is with the squad I have and the fans, we’re still going to be a force. Nothing is going to change.”
The only surprise to me is that some people are surprised. This is classic Charlton in the Duchatelet era.
I remember doing an interview with Jim White (from the Roland Out taxi) the day after Slade was sacked. I said then that it didn’t really matter who came in as manager because under Duchatelet they would never really be allowed to be successful. Bowyer has done brilliantly for us and he deserved the proper support to get this club back into the Championship. Our chances of achieving that have just taken a massive blow. If we fall just that bit short of promotion again this season I think he’ll be off and none of us could blame him.
There’s been a few posts recently along the lines of “Duchatelet isn’t so bad really” and “at least he’s funding the club”. That’s all bollocks. While he’s still here we are in decline, despite the good work done by Bowyer, Gallen, Jacko, and the lads.
The surprise this time is that we were on the cusp of actually achieving something against all the odds under Roland. It ain't over yet but again he's cut off his nose to spite his face an the fans.
Comments
The comparison then is £4m at AFCW with £15m/£18m (in 17/18) at Charlton - not £8m. I believe Andy Holt budgets to lose £750k of £2m turnover.
sounds like a bad 70s US cop show.
This would give the manager and scouts at the Kent club time to check out possible replacements in say Norwood and O'Shea who have good records in League 2.
Both players would be sold by their clubs for about 400K each and after agent fees a profit of 1 million or so to Gillingham and their owner Scully which is a good deal.
He looses Eaves and Parker but replaces with two goal scorers.
I know this might sound simplictic but this is what the likes of Peterborough have been doing for years.
Barry Fry would wager this is the only way to survive in the lower divisions.
That’s our only hope for another striker now, right?
Bowyer gets the best out of players and maybe Bent will need some good man management to make him a valuable asset.
Definitely get where your coming from and Gillingham probably would have sold had they received an offer that was impossible to reject yet probably would have been easier for them had they cashed in on Eaves in the summer - Guess like Grant though there was no guarantee that he would reach the scoring levels that he has done so they probably thought it would be easier to get him to sign a new Contract at that time
This isnt boxing, there is no weight class. He's 34 and he wont be the Bent of old but his experience could be a difference.
If he just sat his "overweight" arse in the box and picked up couple of match winners, id be happy with that.
Could change your name to hoof_it_up_to_fatty?
The thought we can replace the fastest young player in League 1 with some aging player who JJ can beat over 30 yards is comical yet sad at the same time.
i actually think Lee Erwin could be a good shout. Young, hopefully hungry to impress, scores goals and i cant imagine he'd cost that much in wages etc..
Airman has been quite clear that the club can get no where near breakeven in league 1, nore the championship. Like Bolton and others, the Premier league money bloated the infrastructure.
Promotion would increase revenue but nowhere near enough to fund a competitive championship team. This isn't a problem unique to Charlton or indeed Roland. It's the same for every club over a critical mass that doesn't have a "sugar daddy".
He could have also appointed a yes man manager in the summer, sold BFG, not signed Taylor, disband the u23s etc etc he didn't.
Because Roland is an arse doesn't make everything he does bad. This isn't aimed at you @Airman Brown it just happens to be your tweet I am quoting. The RD situation is similar to a reverse of the Corbyn attack dogs on twitter, no one can give him any credit for anything with out being attacked on here. Everything that goes wrong is his fault. I am waiting for someone to suggest he stopped Bristol City signing another striker tbh.
I don’t really understand your point. He is damaging the club (his asset) every week he remains and now he has allowed a situation which makes its future still more precarious because the chances of promotion have been reduced. In lieu of any executive management that is entirely down to him.
I agree that the detail of what happens in the transfer window is not necessarily down to him. It may even be that Bowyer and Gallen misjudged the situation, because after all they are not vastly experienced in transfer dealings and have no one around them who is as support. But I do know that maximising the team’s chances of automatic promotion is in everyone’s interest, including Duchatelet.
Since Eisa was a loan deal there is no evidence that he was prepared to invest even a couple of hundred thousand of the Grant cash in making that outcome more likely. Instead his priority was evidently to claw back more of this season’s operating loss. That is foolish, in my view, and the fact that he hasn’t done other foolish things such as those you mention doesn’t change that.
There is a real risk that the club falls off a cliff at the end of the season and if that happens he will lose out financially as well as us losing out as fans. Be very clear, the club cannot cut its way to break even. There is no equilibrium point. It can only bleed itself to death.
I agree totally with everything you said, but isn't the real, current, football issue that we don't have an owner who is prepared to pump 10s of millions of pounds into the club. Not the fact that the owner is RD?
Yes lots of things in his gift aren't right, no fit for purpose ceo for 5 years doesn't help, no director of football, the lack of day to day managment etc. As you say we can't break even, outside of the prem, under any circumstances.
If he sold tomorrow, as fans, we would actually want a new owner that INCREASED the annual losses in the short term, to maybe reduce them in the medium term, to possibly even make a small profit somewhere down the line. Not a lot to ask is it.
Fair questions. I've worked in biz all my life so I 'm certainly not one of those fans of any club who think there's a magic money tree. And I also accept that Fan ownership is almost impossible unless virtually every club has the same system, as in Germany.
As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.
Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.
AFCW play in a former non-league ground and I doubt Accrington have upgraded much since they were in a similar position, while we have a capacity of 27k in an ex-premiership stadium with additional costs that come with that and we run a 2nd tier academy, have extensive scouting network and crazily have players on above average Championship wages. No way we could run a budget of £2m or even £4m, without closing the academy, East Stand and making cuts that would make Phillip Hammond seem beneficial.
At Posh, didn't we start with 4-2-3-1 with only Karlan up front on his own, before bringing Reeeco alongside him mid-2nd half reverting to diamond? And looking much more dangerous after.
We'll see Parker pencilled in to play in tandem with Taylor.
Perhaps Igor, if he's ever fit enough, or Fosu at a pinch.
Left field view: Parker has hold up play in his game too.
Perhaps could also cover Taylor, if necessary?
“Steve recommended him and he became available. I trust Steve, he hasn’t let us down yet if you look at the recruitment that we’ve got so far.
“You have to look in the situation where we were it was difficult because there aren’t many strikers out there and everyone wants to hold onto their strikers and their best players and last night was a difficult situation. We tried so hard to bring in more.
“We had someone at their ground waiting to sign but they needed papers to bring someone else in before he could go. We can’t control that. We have a budget and we can’t go and buy a striker for £1.5m or whatever Sunderland has just paid. We don’t have that budget. We have what we have and we’re doing well with that.
“What we do have though is a togetherness, that’s the whole club and that makes a lot of difference. So for me I’m still optimistic and I’m still happy and we have to stick together. What I do know is with the squad I have and the fans, we’re still going to be a force. Nothing is going to change.”