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Charlton / L1 - January 2019 Transfer Rumours (ed, deadline day starts p98)

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    Parker was Plan B.
    Mo Eisa was Plan A.

    Eaves was a pipe dream, because Scully was only going to let him go for 1.5 to 2 million because he didn't want to loose a player under contract on the cheap and had proved his worth at Gillingham over the last 12 months.

    I didn't think it would take too much to get O'Shea or Norwood from Bury and Tranmere but maybe they weren't on our radar ?

    More likely he didnt want to lose the man whose goals will probably keep them in the Division and would rather see him go for a free with them as a League One club rather than a League Two team without him (Of course that might happen but he's showing ambition rather than resignation) - Shame we dont have an owner who doesnt have the same approach instead of always wanting a bit more money
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    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Holmes was a bang average league 1 player who bizarrely was capable of trying the outrageous. Probably to the detriment of the team and his all round effectiveness. When it worked it looked fantastic, but how many times did he try it.

    He had to try the outrageous because of the shit around him, especially under Slade.

    We should know doubt move on as I am sure a few will be on here to say shortly, but you have a short memory if you don't remember what he did for us in the 18 months he was here.
    If he was so good, how comes he has only played a handful of games above league 1 in his career. I admit I could be wrong, but every championship manager over the last, what 5 years?
    But your arguing he was a bang average League 1 player, now you are referring to the Championship. Holmes was far above average in our side, and was a late bloomer.
    OK I'll phrase it another way, how many time did Holmes finish above average, mid table, in league one? If he was a late bloomer, he didn't bloom for long did he, signing for Oxford and Gillingham says bang average. If he had signed for Barnsley or Sunderland, that would hint at above average wouldn't it?
    What a ridiculous comment. Holmes's ability could clearly be seen on the pitch. Class player.
    I'll ask again, if he is/was so good has he never played for an above average league 1 club, a part from a hand full of games at Sheffield United?
    He started his career very late? It's a silly point and you know it. You're trying to correlate ability with League position when no real relationship exists. There are too many variables.

    On the basis of your theory, Matt Le Tissier was a bang average Premier League player.
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    Any chance of a free agent coming in? some decent ones available Jay Simpson, Gounongbe, Anchiebe
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    edited February 2019
    IR94 said:

    Any chance of a free agent coming in? some decent ones available Jay Simpson, Gounongbe, Anchiebe

    I think Gallen is quoted somewhere that suggest this too.
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    So 24 players and we can name what 16 is it per match

    So 8 players on between 1k and 4K per week that can’t be picked so at best 32k a month or worst 120k a month of players who are not playing but we have to keep paying

    We are a third division club losing money like mad with a shit cunt owner

    However as a business you can’t win so you have to balance the books some how

    We’ve lost Grant and no one should blame Grant for going

    And if him going pays towards the wage bill then we have to suck it up and accept it

    Agreed, and I also agree with your earlier post about wanting him out and then complaining that he doesn't splash the cash. I have said this myself recently.

    But he owns a club he wants to sell and we are in the promotion hunt. He just pocketed 1.5 mil for Grant, he could show a tiny bit of ambition.

    The crazy thing is although we are suffering as a fanbase, it would surely help him sell the club! Spend another 500k including wages until the summer, get promoted and it will add 5mil on to whatever someone wants to pay for the club!
    We don’t know he pocketed it

    For all we know Bowyer could’ve been told shift of some of the sick note baggage and one of the strikers both who can command a wage

    And it wi release enough to get the cover at full back , Johnny Williams , keep cullens wage and I will let you get a second striker but you must use Recco

    Now as fans that’s not good enough we want bigger better signings than we let go

    However it ain’t realistic and we want RD out and he has us for sale

    So that’s our lot and we have to put up with it and so does bow
    Let’s be realistic. He always wanted the Grant money and will take any other money that comes in to offset the operating loss he has himself inflated through mismanagement. Unless he is willing to sell the club for a realistic price he is responsible for the fact that he has to bear the continuing loss.

    Bowyer, Jackson, Gallen and others are doing their best to keep the situaton afloat but that old bastard, his stooge Murray and anyone else who defends him are destroying the club. He doesn’t get an ounce of sympathy from me.
    There’s no sympathy from me but as a club we have an owner who won’t put money in and we are hemorrhaging money

    So what is the solution

    Have more than a squad of 24 that are all on less money than our highest earners and therefor not of any real quality or manage a team sheet and wage bill

    Like it or not football clubs are businesses and they have to be run like one in virtually all ways

    Losing Grant is shit

    Losing Taylor or Pearce I don’t rate Bauer personally but loads do and losing one of them would’ve been catastrophic

    So if we lost grant and got Williams a full back a keeper and kept taylor Pearce Bauer Cullen

    Then the book balance is understandable

    Recco gets a chance now and maybe just maybe he will take it we are third division not premier and we give our kids a chance in this league (so the cunt can sell them so he doesn’t have to fund as much of the wages ) who knows what may happen


    Realistically what else can happen


    He could sell the club.
    It’s for sale you know that I know that we both know that the asking price ain’t the issue

    But your answer doesn’t solve the problem whilst it’s not sold so what do we do ?

    The clubs a business and the business had to fund its self to a degree because the owner had stopped funding it

    So what should have happened



    What is the issue if not the asking price?

    So many interested parties come and gone just because the Belgian turd wants too much money.
    The fee was agreed that’s why the EFL had the docs

    All the time people show him in this way that the price is acceptable he won’t reduce it


    Saying sell the club when we can all see it’s not happening doesn’t solve the real problem of balancing the sheets

    We lost Grant it’s shit but I’d have lost him over any of the others first
    And Roland knows that the sheets will be even less balanced in The Championship.
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    DOUCHER said:

    I am told that bowyer will get all the money from the sale - if it happens - and ultimately it is bowyers call - he could say no but then you would have a player on your hands who has just lost out on over 3 times the wages he is currently being offered - the wages offered are at the top limit of the wage structure - the alternative is to bring in 2 strikers and i back gallen and bowyer to get this right when they bring in the replacements. If they can't get what they think is right with regards to replacements then i doubt they will let him go and may instead take the deal from rangers which involves him staying but only goes through in the summer if he isn't injured. Not all done and dusted yet

    Hypocritical coming from you. You have posted a shed load of stuff that never happened.
    Hardly. Airman only posts once he has corroborated information and it's usually put out with a proviso. The fact that it doesn't all come to pass is simply because that's what happens. Big difference between that and people speculating, repeating early info as their own etc.
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    bromdog said:

    IR94 said:

    Any chance of a free agent coming in? some decent ones available Jay Simpson, Gounongbe, Anchiebe

    I think Gallen is quoted somewhere that suggest this too.
    Not the position we need, but Joe Ledley for example was released by Derby so that he could find a new club. Hopefully, there will be a decent striking option available too
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    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    So 24 players and we can name what 16 is it per match

    So 8 players on between 1k and 4K per week that can’t be picked so at best 32k a month or worst 120k a month of players who are not playing but we have to keep paying

    We are a third division club losing money like mad with a shit cunt owner

    However as a business you can’t win so you have to balance the books some how

    We’ve lost Grant and no one should blame Grant for going

    And if him going pays towards the wage bill then we have to suck it up and accept it

    Agreed, and I also agree with your earlier post about wanting him out and then complaining that he doesn't splash the cash. I have said this myself recently.

    But he owns a club he wants to sell and we are in the promotion hunt. He just pocketed 1.5 mil for Grant, he could show a tiny bit of ambition.

    The crazy thing is although we are suffering as a fanbase, it would surely help him sell the club! Spend another 500k including wages until the summer, get promoted and it will add 5mil on to whatever someone wants to pay for the club!
    We don’t know he pocketed it

    For all we know Bowyer could’ve been told shift of some of the sick note baggage and one of the strikers both who can command a wage

    And it wi release enough to get the cover at full back , Johnny Williams , keep cullens wage and I will let you get a second striker but you must use Recco

    Now as fans that’s not good enough we want bigger better signings than we let go

    However it ain’t realistic and we want RD out and he has us for sale

    So that’s our lot and we have to put up with it and so does bow
    Let’s be realistic. He always wanted the Grant money and will take any other money that comes in to offset the operating loss he has himself inflated through mismanagement. Unless he is willing to sell the club for a realistic price he is responsible for the fact that he has to bear the continuing loss.

    Bowyer, Jackson, Gallen and others are doing their best to keep the situaton afloat but that old bastard, his stooge Murray and anyone else who defends him are destroying the club. He doesn’t get an ounce of sympathy from me.
    There’s no sympathy from me but as a club we have an owner who won’t put money in and we are hemorrhaging money

    So what is the solution

    Have more than a squad of 24 that are all on less money than our highest earners and therefor not of any real quality or manage a team sheet and wage bill

    Like it or not football clubs are businesses and they have to be run like one in virtually all ways

    Losing Grant is shit

    Losing Taylor or Pearce I don’t rate Bauer personally but loads do and losing one of them would’ve been catastrophic

    So if we lost grant and got Williams a full back a keeper and kept taylor Pearce Bauer Cullen

    Then the book balance is understandable

    Recco gets a chance now and maybe just maybe he will take it we are third division not premier and we give our kids a chance in this league (so the cunt can sell them so he doesn’t have to fund as much of the wages ) who knows what may happen


    Realistically what else can happen


    He could sell the club. He could have sold it in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. He chooses not to do so because he wants too much money.
    He could have also appointed a yes man manager in the summer, sold BFG, not signed Taylor, disband the u23s etc etc he didn't.

    Because Roland is an arse doesn't make everything he does bad. This isn't aimed at you @Airman Brown it just happens to be your tweet I am quoting. The RD situation is similar to a reverse of the Corbyn attack dogs on twitter, no one can give him any credit for anything with out being attacked on here. Everything that goes wrong is his fault. I am waiting for someone to suggest he stopped Bristol City signing another striker tbh.
    I don’t really understand your point. He is damaging the club (his asset) every week he remains and now he has allowed a situation which makes its future still more precarious because the chances of promotion have been reduced. In lieu of any executive management that is entirely down to him.

    I agree that the detail of what happens in the transfer window is not necessarily down to him. It may even be that Bowyer and Gallen misjudged the situation, because after all they are not vastly experienced in transfer dealings and have no one around them who is as support. But I do know that maximising the team’s chances of automatic promotion is in everyone’s interest, including Duchatelet.

    Since Eisa was a loan deal there is no evidence that he was prepared to invest even a couple of hundred thousand of the Grant cash in making that outcome more likely. Instead his priority was evidently to claw back more of this season’s operating loss. That is foolish, in my view, and the fact that he hasn’t done other foolish things such as those you mention doesn’t change that.

    There is a real risk that the club falls off a cliff at the end of the season and if that happens he will lose out financially as well as us losing out as fans. Be very clear, the club cannot cut its way to break even. There is no equilibrium point. It can only bleed itself to death.
    I agree totally with everything you said, but isn't the real, current, football issue that we don't have an owner who is prepared to pump 10s of millions of pounds into the club. Not the fact that the owner is RD?

    Yes lots of things in his gift aren't right, no fit for purpose ceo for 5 years doesn't help, no director of football, the lack of day to day managment etc. As you say we can't break even, outside of the prem, under any circumstances.

    If he sold tomorrow, as fans, we would actually want a new owner that INCREASED the annual losses in the short term, to maybe reduce them in the medium term, to possibly even make a small profit somewhere down the line. Not a lot to ask is it.
    Fair questions. I've worked in biz all my life so I 'm certainly not one of those fans of any club who think there's a magic money tree. And I also accept that Fan ownership is almost impossible unless virtually every club has the same system, as in Germany.

    As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.

    Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.
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    edited February 2019
    he may have decreased the possibility , but shafted ? Fuck me get behind the team and see what happens. I am really enjoying the atmosphere down there can we all not see what transpires before throwing the towell in
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    supaclive said:



    The owner loses 4m in the next 4 months.
    .

    Except he hasn’t.

    Monthly losses are now down to half that and the sale of Grant, offloading of Clarke and Ajose effectively covers the spend till the summer.

    With Konsa and Lookman, he hasn’t actually lost money on Charlton for years.

    He’s just giving Bowyer the absolute minimum now to work with.
    Agree. But the elephant in the room is what happens next? In the summer the 'saleable asset' cupboard will be bare as most of the first team will be able to walk. How does our glorious leader fund the running costs then?
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    Bring back Darren Bent on a pay as you play contract? Gives him a chance to get fit and not costing us wages until he proves himself.
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    supaclive said:



    The owner loses 4m in the next 4 months.
    .

    Boycotts might touch owners at other clubs but they haven't moved him. I have no idea what will persuade the stubborn fool to leave.

    The boycott hasn't moved him because too many people haven't supported it. Securing their seat and a cheaper deal has mattered most to too many. That's their call and you have to respect it but boycotting can only be judged when successfully implemented. If a majority of season ticket holders withheld their purchases until at least the last minute (end of July) and were prepared to pay match-by-match or suffer the extra £50 or whatever, he might be moved further. Those who say he doesn't care about money are simply wrong as this window and all his other penny-pinching confirms. Voting with our feet is all that's left - he's had the benefit in the last couple of month's of the Bowyer effect and the false dawn of serious promotion hopes which I think have now been laid bare.
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    edited February 2019



    As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.

    Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.

    To be clear, £8m might be the Charlton operating loss or the NET operating cost. The actual operating costs were £21-£22mm in 2016/17, against revenue of £7.5m. In my view it's highly unlikely they were less than £15m in 2017/18 and they were probably more like £18m.

    The comparison then is £4m at AFCW with £15m/£18m (in 17/18) at Charlton - not £8m. I believe Andy Holt budgets to lose £750k of £2m turnover.
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    supaclive said:



    The owner loses 4m in the next 4 months.
    .

    Boycotts might touch owners at other clubs but they haven't moved him. I have no idea what will persuade the stubborn fool to leave.

    The boycott hasn't moved him because too many people haven't supported it. Securing their seat and a cheaper deal has mattered most to too many. That's their call and you have to respect it but boycotting can only be judged when successfully implemented. If a majority of season ticket holders withheld their purchases until at least the last minute (end of July) and were prepared to pay match-by-match or suffer the extra £50 or whatever, he might be moved further. Those who say he doesn't care about money are simply wrong as this window and all his other penny-pinching confirms. Voting with our feet is all that's left - he's had the benefit in the last couple of month's of the Bowyer effect and the false dawn of serious promotion hopes which I think have now been laid bare.
    A boycott will never be fully implemented and he has the means to cover the losses. Somebody with less financial clout would have caved in.

    He'll go when he's good and ready but as for when that is who knows? I think what's most evident is how stubborn he is and his determination never to admit he's wrong.
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    CatAddick said:

    supaclive said:



    The owner loses 4m in the next 4 months.
    .

    Except he hasn’t.

    Monthly losses are now down to half that and the sale of Grant, offloading of Clarke and Ajose effectively covers the spend till the summer.

    With Konsa and Lookman, he hasn’t actually lost money on Charlton for years.

    He’s just giving Bowyer the absolute minimum now to work with.
    Agree. But the elephant in the room is what happens next? In the summer the 'saleable asset' cupboard will be bare as most of the first team will be able to walk. How does our glorious leader fund the running costs then?
    My guess he be looking at off loading Taylor in the summer.
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    Parker was Plan B.
    Mo Eisa was Plan A.

    Eaves was a pipe dream, because Scully was only going to let him go for 1.5 to 2 million because he didn't want to loose a player under contract on the cheap and had proved his worth at Gillingham over the last 12 months.

    I didn't think it would take too much to get O'Shea or Norwood from Bury and Tranmere but maybe they weren't on our radar ?

    More likely he didnt want to lose the man whose goals will probably keep them in the Division and would rather see him go for a free with them as a League One club rather than a League Two team without him (Of course that might happen but he's showing ambition rather than resignation) - Shame we dont have an owner who doesnt have the same approach instead of always wanting a bit more money
    Yes that is true But do you think he would have turned down 2 million. What happens in the world of football is at the beginning of the window a well run small football club would have alerted other clubs by the network of agents, media etc that a big offer and only a big offer could see Tom Eaves depart who is only 26 but hadn't any profile until he went to Gillingham.

    This would give the manager and scouts at the Kent club time to check out possible replacements in say Norwood and O'Shea who have good records in League 2.
    Both players would be sold by their clubs for about 400K each and after agent fees a profit of 1 million or so to Gillingham and their owner Scully which is a good deal.
    He looses Eaves and Parker but replaces with two goal scorers.

    I know this might sound simplictic but this is what the likes of Peterborough have been doing for years.
    Barry Fry would wager this is the only way to survive in the lower divisions.
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    I imagine the team are scouring the free agents list today

    That’s our only hope for another striker now, right?
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    edited February 2019
    Would happily take Darren Bent anyway. The guy can score goals. Granted his record lately isnt what it once was but you just dont lose it.

    Bowyer gets the best out of players and maybe Bent will need some good man management to make him a valuable asset.

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    Parker was Plan B.
    Mo Eisa was Plan A.

    Eaves was a pipe dream, because Scully was only going to let him go for 1.5 to 2 million because he didn't want to loose a player under contract on the cheap and had proved his worth at Gillingham over the last 12 months.

    I didn't think it would take too much to get O'Shea or Norwood from Bury and Tranmere but maybe they weren't on our radar ?

    More likely he didnt want to lose the man whose goals will probably keep them in the Division and would rather see him go for a free with them as a League One club rather than a League Two team without him (Of course that might happen but he's showing ambition rather than resignation) - Shame we dont have an owner who doesnt have the same approach instead of always wanting a bit more money
    Yes that is true But do you think he would have turned down 2 million. What happens in the world of football is at the beginning of the window a well run small football club would have alerted other clubs by the network of agents, media etc that a big offer and only a big offer could see Tom Eaves depart who is only 26 but hadn't any profile until he went to Gillingham.

    This would give the manager and scouts at the Kent club time to check out possible replacements in say Norwood and O'Shea who have good records in League 2.
    Both players would be sold by their clubs for about 400K each and after agent fees a profit of 1 million or so to Gillingham and their owner Scully which is a good deal.
    He looses Eaves and Parker but replaces with two goal scorers.

    I know this might sound simplictic but this is what the likes of Peterborough have been doing for years.
    Barry Fry would wager this is the only way to survive in the lower divisions.
    True but its a risk doing it in January because of the panic buying and the reluctance of other teams to sell their players for that same reason

    Definitely get where your coming from and Gillingham probably would have sold had they received an offer that was impossible to reject yet probably would have been easier for them had they cashed in on Eaves in the summer - Guess like Grant though there was no guarantee that he would reach the scoring levels that he has done so they probably thought it would be easier to get him to sign a new Contract at that time
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    Would happily take Darren Bent anyway. The guy can score goals. Granted his record lately isnt what it once was but you just dont lose it.

    Bowyer gets the best out of players and maybe Bent will need some good man management to make him a valuable asset.

    We don't need an unfit overweight player.
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    Would happily take Darren Bent anyway. The guy can score goals. Granted his record lately isnt what it once was but you just dont lose it.

    Bowyer gets the best out of players and maybe Bent will need some good man management to make him a valuable asset.

    We don't need an unfit overweight player.
    Is he overweight? I imagine he will be unfit.

    This isnt boxing, there is no weight class. He's 34 and he wont be the Bent of old but his experience could be a difference.

    If he just sat his "overweight" arse in the box and picked up couple of match winners, id be happy with that.

    Could change your name to hoof_it_up_to_fatty?
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    I imagine the team are scouring the free agents list today

    That’s our only hope for another striker now, right?

    Some of the comedians on CL, you know the guys who said Grant was only any good because of Lyle Taylor will now suggest that out of conditions former Perm players will get up to speed in a week !

    The thought we can replace the fastest young player in League 1 with some aging player who JJ can beat over 30 yards is comical yet sad at the same time.
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    Signing Darren Bent would give the whole place a lift at the very least. It would also add experience, leadership and know how. he isnt' the Darren Bent of old, but he hasn't forgot his trade. would be a fairy tale last hurrah.

    i actually think Lee Erwin could be a good shout. Young, hopefully hungry to impress, scores goals and i cant imagine he'd cost that much in wages etc..
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    for what it's worth, I thought Parker had a very good game against us last year when they turned us over on New Years Day. Yes we are fucked off , but Bowyer has developed a seige mentality within the squad, let's hope he can keep that up, he has also developed a feel good factor with the fans. Don't let this ruin that, and what I mean by that is a the first bad result everyone going mental, we have to see how this pans out over the next month, when we get Taylor, Aribo and Pearce back, if it then really goes belly up , I will be the first screaming blue murder, but right now Bowyer deserves us the fans to give him and the players the backing we have done so far this season. This is my club , my team and I will continue to support them and the badge.

    Aribo is back running, Taylor returns in a fortnight, Bowyer's problem is that only one of Marshall, Morgan, Djiksteel or Lapslie will make the bench! We made three decent signings in the window but those returning from injuries are like a major strengthening for a promotion push. That's without Page and Pearce due back later this month. Am I alone in being exited by the Parker signing?
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    As to what an owner should actually do right now, it's difficult to give a business-like answer when the key numbers are shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that AFCW have a total running cost budget of £4m, while Andy Holt I think says his budget is half that. We on the other hand keep being told that RD 'pumps ina Million a month'. Despite @Airman Brown best efforts nobody really knows the true running costs at present but it sounds like they might be £8m. So if you look at the recent Accrington game from a business POV, your conclusion must surely be that the money is being deployed incompetently.

    Of course it's going to take time for a new owner to make it more sustainable, but what we are getting mad about here is that one way to get there is to increase revenue. how? By getting promotion of course. And he has just shafted that prospect. It makes no sense.

    To be clear, £8m might be the Charlton operating loss or the NET operating cost. The actual operating costs were £21-£22mm in 2016/17, against revenue of £7.5m. In my view it's highly unlikely they were less than £15m in 2017/18 and they were probably more like £18m.

    The comparison then is £4m at AFCW with £15m/£18m (in 17/18) at Charlton - not £8m. I believe Andy Holt budgets to lose £750k of £2m turnover.
    @PragueAddick you can't compare Wimbledon or Stanley as similar businesses to us. They don't have the same over heads of ground, training ground, acedemy etc. On a side do you think that either will be viable in the medium term as league 1 clubs?

    Airman has been quite clear that the club can get no where near breakeven in league 1, nore the championship. Like Bolton and others, the Premier league money bloated the infrastructure.

    Promotion would increase revenue but nowhere near enough to fund a competitive championship team. This isn't a problem unique to Charlton or indeed Roland. It's the same for every club over a critical mass that doesn't have a "sugar daddy".
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    for what it's worth, I thought Parker had a very good game against us last year when they turned us over on New Years Day. Yes we are fucked off , but Bowyer has developed a seige mentality within the squad, let's hope he can keep that up, he has also developed a feel good factor with the fans. Don't let this ruin that, and what I mean by that is a the first bad result everyone going mental, we have to see how this pans out over the next month, when we get Taylor, Aribo and Pearce back, if it then really goes belly up , I will be the first screaming blue murder, but right now Bowyer deserves us the fans to give him and the players the backing we have done so far this season. This is my club , my team and I will continue to support them and the badge.

    Aribo is back running, Taylor returns in a fortnight, Bowyer's problem is that only one of Marshall, Morgan, Djiksteel or Lapslie will make the bench! We made three decent signings in the window but those returning from injuries are like a major strengthening for a promotion push. That's without Page and Pearce due back later this month. Am I alone in being exited by the Parker signing?
    Yes maybe, having spoke to a Gills fan at work, he is astonished that we have signed Parker, saying the only positive is that he 'runs around a lot'.
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    Anybody else had a shitty nights kip ...

    Not feeling great tbh. Was still puking over the two points dropped in Saturday before this latest debacle.
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    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    Holmes was a bang average league 1 player who bizarrely was capable of trying the outrageous. Probably to the detriment of the team and his all round effectiveness. When it worked it looked fantastic, but how many times did he try it.

    He had to try the outrageous because of the shit around him, especially under Slade.

    We should know doubt move on as I am sure a few will be on here to say shortly, but you have a short memory if you don't remember what he did for us in the 18 months he was here.
    If he was so good, how comes he has only played a handful of games above league 1 in his career. I admit I could be wrong, but every championship manager over the last, what 5 years?
    But your arguing he was a bang average League 1 player, now you are referring to the Championship. Holmes was far above average in our side, and was a late bloomer.
    OK I'll phrase it another way, how many time did Holmes finish above average, mid table, in league one? If he was a late bloomer, he didn't bloom for long did he, signing for Oxford and Gillingham says bang average. If he had signed for Barnsley or Sunderland, that would hint at above average wouldn't it?
    What a ridiculous comment. Holmes's ability could clearly be seen on the pitch. Class player.
    I'll ask again, if he is/was so good has he never played for an above average league 1 club, a part from a hand full of games at Sheffield United?
    He started his career very late? It's a silly point and you know it. You're trying to correlate ability with League position when no real relationship exists. There are too many variables.

    On the basis of your theory, Matt Le Tissier was a bang average Premier League player.
    Le Tiss played for his boyhood club through out his career, turned down moves to Chelsea etc. Unless Holmes was a boyhood Northampton, Oxford and Gillingham fan it's not a good comparison.
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