Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
The question this thread leaves me pondering is: Should Netflix be programmed to prevent people from watching more than one episode from the same series in any 24 hour period? Otherwise it's not really in the spirit of a series, is it? Can you imagine if people had watched all episodes of the second series of Fawlty Towers, or the seventh series of OF&H, in one go?
Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
Spot on, I noticed that bit as well.
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
I get that the reason this got made is because the producers are Sunderland fans so it was easy to pitch to Netflix, but I think whats happened at Charlton over the last couple of years, (and probably since 2007!) would make for a far more entertaining docu. Not just for Charlton fans but football fans in general.
Sundland got double relegated and got sold a couple of times, thats not that unusual these days?
I suppose if you look at the situation when season one was commissioned then I imagine it was sold to Netflix as a completely different proposition
Sunderland would have been a typical Premier League club and bet they thought they'd be filming a Premier League season, instead they turned into a Championship side with Netflix still thinking: "Great its going to be a season challenging for promotion", instead it probably worked out better for them that Sunderland got into trouble because it allowed them to show a Football club at the complete opposite end of the spectrum to the Man City / Amazon documentary
Of course last season they must have thought that Sunderland would be sure to be in a promotion fight (which they were) and almost got their fairytale ending only for it to end in disaster again
Bet that was a factor behind there being no season three for this year as they've not been filming yet it appears its not something that has been completely cancelled as the producers hope to have a successful ending
As I said to my Dad last night on the phone, this is the trouble with these Documentaries, they can have all the hopes in the world but Football is without doubt no script!! - In a way you have to look at Charlton in a normal season, yes we've had our troubles which are obvious to see but each summer its not obvious that they'll happen (we certainly didnt see this mess happening back in August), take that away and we're pretty much the same as Sunderland e.g. a bang average team each with our own troubles... Sunderland just got lucky with the timing of their issues.
The Fleetwood documentary would be interesting to watch (if it gets released) as their season was pretty uneventful, but then again, everyone would watch simply because of the Joey Barton incident @ Barnsley
What happened?
Barton apparently assaulted the Barnsley Manager in the tunnel after the game
Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
Spot on, I noticed that bit as well.
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
I finally got around to finishing the series this week. Although interesting and entertaining, I thought it was not nearly as compelling as Season 1, notwithstanding the marvellous finale. It felt concertinaed into six episodes, superficial in parts and I believe it was a mistake to devote a whole episode to the Checkatrade Cup. For me, there was not enough emphasis on how their their league season evolved.
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
On a different note, while the current season feels a bit irrelevant in the context of what’s happening in the world, it was a pity about McGeady’s lack of fitness when he came to us, as he can certainly play.
I finally got around to finishing the series this week. Although interesting and entertaining, I thought it was not nearly as compelling as Season 1, notwithstanding the marvellous finale. It felt concertinaed into six episodes, superficial in parts and I believe it was a mistake to devote a whole episode to the Checkatrade Cup. For me, there was not enough emphasis on how their their league season evolved.
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
On a different note, while the current season feels a bit irrelevant in the context of what’s happening in the world, it was a pity about McGeady’s lack of fitness when he came to us, as he can certainly play.
The hope is that this break might mean Aiden can be at a similar level to other players when the season resumes.
Just watched this. Agree with comments that this is nowhere near as good as season one (as much as the ending was amazing for us).
My biggest criticism is summed up by the opening few minutes - it felt like they’d hired actors. The new guy explaining the current situation to a group of employees felt entirely staged. It played out like an episode of The Office. And all the inserts were shots of kid playing in slow motion. There was nothing real about it.
I went into this looking for ideas to shamelessly rip off for my own doc, and came away thinking, there’s plenty in there I want to avoid. So much was forced, particularly from the supporters they focus on. It felt to me like the only truly natural moment was ‘why is it never us celebrating?’
As @Valley11 said, they seemed to lack stories in their rushes. Which is insane given the nature of their season.
Just watched this. Agree with comments that this is nowhere near as good as season one (as much as the ending was amazing for us).
My biggest criticism is summed up by the opening few minutes - it felt like they’d hired actors. The new guy explaining the current situation to a group of employees felt entirely staged. It played out like an episode of The Office. And all the inserts were shots of kid playing in slow motion. There was nothing real about it.
I went into this looking for ideas to shamelessly rip off for my own doc, and came away thinking, there’s plenty in there I want to avoid. So much was forced, particularly from the supporters they focus on. It felt to me like the only truly natural moment was ‘why is it never us celebrating?’
As @Valley11 said, they seemed to lack stories in their rushes. Which is insane given the nature of their season.
Finally watched episode 6 last night, I'd been saving it :-) My guess is, they had the stories, but Sunderland, especially Methven, said no. Remember the delay in it actually appearing?
Compared with the first season there is very little narrative around the players. Only 6 episodes rather than the 8 of the first season, and seemingly quite a variation in running time of individual episodes. Suggests to me a bit of a butchering.
The Checkatrade really shafted them in the end. Everyone, club and fans, mugged off by that stupid competition.
I thought that in the limited time they caught the key narratives of our side, but you had to know them, the average viewer wouldn't pick up. There was no v/o to remind people when Jonny Williams came on that he had been a "star" of series 1, but it is seen that he came on and started to swing it our way, whereas McGeady came on and basically fluffed it. And there is the delicious slo-mo of Josh's match-winning cross. That was worth a month's subscription on its own :-)
Haven’t finished it yet but I thought the stuff with Sophie the marketing woman was extremely poorly handled. I’m a TV producer who has made several documentaries over the years and the way this was edited, and the focus on her as a dud, insolent employee, was appalling.
Remember this is a single mum who presumably lives in the area and will be looking for another job, not a £50k a week footballer (Maja) that the series should be about. It feels like it was cut like this because the source material was so thin.
This and the Tiger King, where Carole Baskin claims the show was edited to sex up the ‘she killed her husband’ allegations, is not showing Netflix in a great light. Yes give film makers freedom but Netflix has a responsibility to hold those film makers to account before broadcast.
Couldn't agree more re Sophie. Her sacking was clearly a tactical decision by that enormous wanker Methvin to make a point to other staff. In the scene before staff are saying goodbye to her in the car park he is bawling her out because the ticket office staff haven't yet got the attendance for the Boxing day game which is still in play. Still, you could see from the expression on her face that she hated every minute working for that odious arse.
Just binge-watched the second series and I am livid about that arsehole. "I'm the visionary, it's the Marketing team's job to make my vision reality." "Someone get me a beer." "For once I think I might not have got it right, yet." "Of every club I've ever supported...." Demanding staff make calls on his behalf and he tells them what to say - can't he pick the phone up himself? Why did no-one punch him hard in the face during the making of this film?
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Shout out for Andrew Camiss, the former soldier and devoted fan and family man and for Father Marc Lyden-Smith whose sermons about the club and his connection to the community were so admirable.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
Just watched this. Agree with comments that this is nowhere near as good as season one (as much as the ending was amazing for us).
My biggest criticism is summed up by the opening few minutes - it felt like they’d hired actors. The new guy explaining the current situation to a group of employees felt entirely staged. It played out like an episode of The Office. And all the inserts were shots of kid playing in slow motion. There was nothing real about it.
I went into this looking for ideas to shamelessly rip off for my own doc, and came away thinking, there’s plenty in there I want to avoid. So much was forced, particularly from the supporters they focus on. It felt to me like the only truly natural moment was ‘why is it never us celebrating?’
As @Valley11 said, they seemed to lack stories in their rushes. Which is insane given the nature of their season.
Finally watched episode 6 last night, I'd been saving it :-) My guess is, they had the stories, but Sunderland, especially Methven, said no. Remember the delay in it actually appearing?
Compared with the first season there is very little narrative around the players. Only 6 episodes rather than the 8 of the first season, and seemingly quite a variation in running time of individual episodes. Suggests to me a bit of a butchering.
The Checkatrade really shafted them in the end. Everyone, club and fans, mugged off by that stupid competition.
I thought that in the limited time they caught the key narratives of our side, but you had to know them, the average viewer wouldn't pick up. There was no v/o to remind people when Jonny Williams came on that he had been a "star" of series 1, but it is seen that he came on and started to swing it our way, whereas McGeady came on and basically fluffed it. And there is the delicious slo-mo of Josh's match-winning cross. That was worth a month's subscription on its own :-)
Yes that’s a good point on the lack of player arcs. And you have to be a football fan to pick up on the more interesting football sub plots. The crew didn’t have as much access as they needed, changing room stuff especially.
What I find a bit disingenuous is how they avoid a voice over but use - very often fake - commentary to explain what’s going on. If not that, then the chosen fans who say precisely what the production team need them to say. I’d rather they just used a V/O, although I accept a wider audience probably wouldn’t notice this a great deal. It’s just that so much of the presentation is fake.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
How do you get to that conclusion?
His contract was to the end of the season, rather than let him go on a free, they took a reduced transfer fee, as he went aboard.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
How do you get to that conclusion?
His contract was to the end of the season, rather than let him go on a free, they took a reduced transfer fee, as he went aboard.
But were they not shown trying to offer him a new contract?
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
How do you get to that conclusion?
His contract was to the end of the season, rather than let him go on a free, they took a reduced transfer fee, as he went aboard.
But were they not shown trying to offer him a new contract?
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
Not how it came across. The Agent was being deliberately obstructive and had form for moving players abroad where the Agent picks up a huge bonus. If they sold him it was because they would have got zip I six months but with hindsight that's what they should have done.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
Not how it came across. The Agent was being deliberately obstructive and had form for moving players abroad where the Agent picks up a huge bonus. If they sold him it was because they would have got zip I six months but with hindsight that's what they should have done.
I understand that it is the same agent for Joe Aribo and for each transfer the agent picked up £1million for his troubles.
Sky Sports transfer news stated that one or more of the Sunday papers were reporting that West Ham and Palace had been alerted to a potential return to England by Maja. Looks like his agent's been busy.
For those having a crack at young Maja ask yourself what you would do in his position....commit your future to the hands of a pair of dodgy chancers or cash out and get a great move elsewhere that sets you up for life?
Sunderland didn’t have to sell him, they could have kept him and used him to get an auto spot and then let him go.....but they chose to take the cash.
He did look very smug though when asked what was happening and he smirked when saying he didn't know because he was concentrating on playing football. Given all the effort they made to keep him and the lack of respect from his Agent, the Chairman should have made him serve his contract out- they only got 1.5m euros for him and wasted more than twice that on Will Grieg.
Maja and/or his agent didn’t choose to leave - Sunderland chose to sell him.
How do you get to that conclusion?
Because if Sunderland hadn’t chosen to sell him he couldn’t have signed for Bordeaux in January - simple conclusion really. Obviously it would have meant losing him for nothing in the summer, as it was they ended up even worse off than that as they were £1.5M down (£1.5M in for Maja and £3M out on Grigg), a much worse team and blowing promotion.
The documentary completely glossed over Sunderland accepting an offer for Maja - which is the most significant thing that happened all season - and made it out like he just turned up in Bordeaux and signed for them without Sunderland’s knowledge.
Comments
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
Sunderland are allegedly paying the other £15k.
Compared with the first season there is very little narrative around the players. Only 6 episodes rather than the 8 of the first season, and seemingly quite a variation in running time of individual episodes. Suggests to me a bit of a butchering.
The Checkatrade really shafted them in the end. Everyone, club and fans, mugged off by that stupid competition.
I thought that in the limited time they caught the key narratives of our side, but you had to know them, the average viewer wouldn't pick up. There was no v/o to remind people when Jonny Williams came on that he had been a "star" of series 1, but it is seen that he came on and started to swing it our way, whereas McGeady came on and basically fluffed it. And there is the delicious slo-mo of Josh's match-winning cross. That was worth a month's subscription on its own :-)