Don't particularly want to get into this debate. And I actually think she is wrong because this is the biggest most high profile women's sporting event ever and is about promoting women's involvement in all aspects of the game.
But I found it a bit rich that this was coming from the woman that claimed all Charlton fans were sexist because they wanted rid of Meire when she has publicly shown many times she wasn't up to the job.
I think it just might have been a slip of the tongue Canters.
Don't particularly want to get into this debate. And I actually think she is wrong because this is the biggest most high profile women's sporting event ever and is about promoting women's involvement in all aspects of the game.
But I found it a bit rich that this was coming from the woman that claimed all Charlton fans were sexist because they wanted rid of Meire when she has publicly shown many times she wasn't up to the job.
Her main concern is nothing to do with equality. She's mainly annoyed that women's football is being shown up as a joke shop due to the standard of refereeing. It kicks a great big hole in her 'women in sport, you go girl!' narrative.
The basic problem is the low participation levels. The more participants, the higher the overall standard rises. That's basically why the USA are able to smash Thailand 13-0 and the refs at this tournament are not really up to international standard.
But no, instead of addressing the root of difficult questions about hopeless mismatches and sub-standard refs she wants a quick convenient fix in the name of pretend equality to stop women's football being embarrassed again.
Not many hopeless mismatches with the exception of Thailand and standard of refereeing is improving.
You seem keen to criticise through exaggeration.
Do you deny the basic point of my post? Increased participation increases standards. USA has many thousands of girls and women playing football, Thailand unfortunately doesn't.
You see the same issues with refereeing. If the pool of available referees is not large enough, the standards of those getting to the higher levels is dependent on who ever you can get rather than whoever is best.
I have no issue with women's football itself. Just the likes of Jo Tongue who isn't doing women's football any favours by pretending the problem is solved by using male referees. She should be about improving standards and encouraging female participation in the game.
She's pretending equality is the problem, when it's actually participation levels and standards.
I don't accept most of what you say - you use a dislike of a certain individual to argue other points without backing them up in my view.
Participation levels and standards have increased a lot in the women's game and this includes the refereeing. This is effectively what you've just argued for.
You go on about mismatches in your post but if you'd watched the games you'd see this only really applies to Thailand. If you watch other sporting competitions there are far more mismatches.
You also use the phrase 'joke shop' in respect of the competition so it doesn't suggest to me you've either watched it or given it a chance.
I've watched a number of the games and have been impressed by the standard and the refereeing has certainly not been as bad as you're claiming.
I'll admit, Jo Tongue starts off on minus points with me. She was prepared to throw lazy insults like "sexist" around against anyone who criticised Katrien Meire for being no good at her job, wilfully ignoring the mountain of evidence that proved she was no good at her job. Never mind the uncomfortable truth if it doesn't fit your agenda. Shouting "sexist" beats any argument, right?
The intent of my original post was that Jo Tongue has missed the point completely. As an advocate for women in sport she should be questioning why women officials are getting thrown under the bus at this tournament. Deciding to say now that the best officials should be there regardless of gender is a tacit admission that the female officials at the tournament aren't of the required standard. Her only solution as a supposed champion of women's sport? Basically, let the blokes do it. Cheers. A well thought out and argued solution that. Nothing about increasing participation, funding for professional female referees in the WSL, or any other practical suggestion.
The refereeing in this tournament certainly hasn't been up to standard on enough occasions for it to be worthy of comment, have a read back through this thread for starters, never mind the player's, manager's and media's comments. If you don't care much for my colourful language I'll frame it in more sober terms. FIFA have decided that their premier women's football competition will be officiated by women. It is therefore incumbent on them as tournament organisers to make sure the officials are of the required international standard. I would argue that they've failed to do so by relying on a pool of largely part time female officials, and then compounded the problem by throwing new rules, unworkable guidance and VAR on top.
My bringing up the USA v Thailand game was to point out how the difference in participation levels effect standards. The example is extreme, but it serves the point. The same principle applies to female referees. There aren't enough women going in to refereeing, more domestic British women's games are officiated by men than women and the standard of female referees hasn't improved at the same rate as the players. The standard won't improve any time soon without more participation and professionalisation, but not necessarily as part of men's football.
I think Jo Tongue has been a bit of a red herrring - she's certainly not someone worth listening to after her comments on KM.
The issue in women's football is certainly more with referees than players and the shortcomings are open to debate. It's probably far easier to attract women to play than officiate.
I think it's a good thing that women officials have been given the chance to officiate in this competition but as you say they've been hampered by some of the VAR changes thrust upon this competition. Having male officials may have been better but personally I think the right decision was made for the future of the game.
Overall the standard continues to improve and I feel optimistic.
We can both ignore Jo Tongue!
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore her when she keeps inserting herself into the situation via vacuous, attention seeking tweets. She's not a journalist any more, she's an activist. Sticking her oar in is what she is all about. More often than not, it really doesn't help, much like Sam Quek's patronisingly cringey tweet that degenerated in to a twitterfight with Lyle Taylor.
As a fan of woman football, As a fan of Men's Football, As a fan of kids football, As a fan of football, I do feel the players and refs in this tournament have been stitched up. WTF chose a WC for a trial for a new rule. It's taking away from the football, which goes from the ridiculous to the sublime just like every tournament I have ever watched.
Down to the last 16 now. Most of the Amateurs and Scotland have gone home now and the last 16 are mainly professionals or semi pros.
If anyone is bored on a Sunday or at a loose end give women's football a go. I saw Cafc women's win all seven matches I went to including wins at the valley against Millwall and seeing Cafc beat Palace at Crayford and Selhurst park. Also I went to see Chelsea v Man city at Kingston where it was just £6 entry.
As a fan of woman football, As a fan of Men's Football, As a fan of kids football, As a fan of football, I do feel the players and refs in this tournament have been stitched up. WTF chose a WC for a trial for a new rule. It's taking away from the football, which goes from the ridiculous to the sublime just like every tournament I have ever watched.
Down to the last 16 now. Most of the Amateurs and Scotland have gone home now and the last 16 are mainly professionals or semi pros.
If anyone is bored on a Sunday or at a loose end give women's football a go. I saw Cafc women's win all seven matches I went to including wins at the valley against Millwall and seeing Cafc beat Palace at Crayford and Selhurst park. Also I went to see Chelsea v Man city at Kingston where it was just £6 entry.
Certainly more inclined to watch it now after seeing the standard in the World cup.
As a fan of woman football, As a fan of Men's Football, As a fan of kids football, As a fan of football, I do feel the players and refs in this tournament have been stitched up. WTF chose a WC for a trial for a new rule. It's taking away from the football, which goes from the ridiculous to the sublime just like every tournament I have ever watched.
Down to the last 16 now. Most of the Amateurs and Scotland have gone home now and the last 16 are mainly professionals or semi pros.
If anyone is bored on a Sunday or at a loose end give women's football a go. I saw Cafc women's win all seven matches I went to including wins at the valley against Millwall and seeing Cafc beat Palace at Crayford and Selhurst park. Also I went to see Chelsea v Man city at Kingston where it was just £6 entry.
It's not a trial of a new rule
It is a new rule.
people saying earlier she was only 5mm off the goal line wouldn't say, 'but the ball was only 5mm over the the line so should count as a goal.'
Just want to inform everyone that its not Daley it Daly. Not important but she is a relative of mine so i know charlton fans like to be informed of incorrect spelling of surnames.
It does feel like that but if you attempt to tackle like the Nigerian where you graze the ball but you end up with your leg around someone ears then a penalty seems a good call. The non off side was the right call but could have been given as player in keepers view.
It does feel like that but if you attempt to tackle like the Nigerian where you graze the ball but you end up with your leg around someone ears then a penalty seems a good call. The non off side was the right call but could have been given as player in keepers view.
It does feel like that but if you attempt to tackle like the Nigerian where you graze the ball but you end up with your leg around someone ears then a penalty seems a good call. The non off side was the right call but could have been given as player in keepers view.
The non-offside was totally the wrong call.
Right call, wrong call, if Casey Stoney isn't sure what off side is anymore then nor am I. That is the 3rd call where goals have been given where players were offside and interference took place. The VAR teams have been consistent even though all the goals given look offside and interference took place.
Norway look technically excellent but their finishing isn't great. Not really sure which of these we would rather have in the next round if we beat Cameroon
The most even and hardest match of the last 16 to call has reached stalemate. These pens could take some time.
Especially if every bloody penalty needs retaking. If keepers get booked for stepping off their line early now, would the ref not be forced to send the keeper off if she stepped off her line twice?
Don't particularly want to get into this debate. And I actually think she is wrong because this is the biggest most high profile women's sporting event ever and is about promoting women's involvement in all aspects of the game.
But I found it a bit rich that this was coming from the woman that claimed all Charlton fans were sexist because they wanted rid of Meire when she has publicly shown many times she wasn't up to the job.
Her main concern is nothing to do with equality. She's mainly annoyed that women's football is being shown up as a joke shop due to the standard of refereeing. It kicks a great big hole in her 'women in sport, you go girl!' narrative.
The basic problem is the low participation levels. The more participants, the higher the overall standard rises. That's basically why the USA are able to smash Thailand 13-0 and the refs at this tournament are not really up to international standard.
But no, instead of addressing the root of difficult questions about hopeless mismatches and sub-standard refs she wants a quick convenient fix in the name of pretend equality to stop women's football being embarrassed again.
Not many hopeless mismatches with the exception of Thailand and standard of refereeing is improving.
You seem keen to criticise through exaggeration.
Do you deny the basic point of my post? Increased participation increases standards. USA has many thousands of girls and women playing football, Thailand unfortunately doesn't.
You see the same issues with refereeing. If the pool of available referees is not large enough, the standards of those getting to the higher levels is dependent on who ever you can get rather than whoever is best.
I have no issue with women's football itself. Just the likes of Jo Tongue who isn't doing women's football any favours by pretending the problem is solved by using male referees. She should be about improving standards and encouraging female participation in the game.
She's pretending equality is the problem, when it's actually participation levels and standards.
I don't accept most of what you say - you use a dislike of a certain individual to argue other points without backing them up in my view.
Participation levels and standards have increased a lot in the women's game and this includes the refereeing. This is effectively what you've just argued for.
You go on about mismatches in your post but if you'd watched the games you'd see this only really applies to Thailand. If you watch other sporting competitions there are far more mismatches.
You also use the phrase 'joke shop' in respect of the competition so it doesn't suggest to me you've either watched it or given it a chance.
I've watched a number of the games and have been impressed by the standard and the refereeing has certainly not been as bad as you're claiming.
I'll admit, Jo Tongue starts off on minus points with me. She was prepared to throw lazy insults like "sexist" around against anyone who criticised Katrien Meire for being no good at her job, wilfully ignoring the mountain of evidence that proved she was no good at her job. Never mind the uncomfortable truth if it doesn't fit your agenda. Shouting "sexist" beats any argument, right?
The intent of my original post was that Jo Tongue has missed the point completely. As an advocate for women in sport she should be questioning why women officials are getting thrown under the bus at this tournament. Deciding to say now that the best officials should be there regardless of gender is a tacit admission that the female officials at the tournament aren't of the required standard. Her only solution as a supposed champion of women's sport? Basically, let the blokes do it. Cheers. A well thought out and argued solution that. Nothing about increasing participation, funding for professional female referees in the WSL, or any other practical suggestion.
The refereeing in this tournament certainly hasn't been up to standard on enough occasions for it to be worthy of comment, have a read back through this thread for starters, never mind the player's, manager's and media's comments. If you don't care much for my colourful language I'll frame it in more sober terms. FIFA have decided that their premier women's football competition will be officiated by women. It is therefore incumbent on them as tournament organisers to make sure the officials are of the required international standard. I would argue that they've failed to do so by relying on a pool of largely part time female officials, and then compounded the problem by throwing new rules, unworkable guidance and VAR on top.
My bringing up the USA v Thailand game was to point out how the difference in participation levels effect standards. The example is extreme, but it serves the point. The same principle applies to female referees. There aren't enough women going in to refereeing, more domestic British women's games are officiated by men than women and the standard of female referees hasn't improved at the same rate as the players. The standard won't improve any time soon without more participation and professionalisation, but not necessarily as part of men's football.
I think Jo Tongue has been a bit of a red herrring - she's certainly not someone worth listening to after her comments on KM.
The issue in women's football is certainly more with referees than players and the shortcomings are open to debate. It's probably far easier to attract women to play than officiate.
I think it's a good thing that women officials have been given the chance to officiate in this competition but as you say they've been hampered by some of the VAR changes thrust upon this competition. Having male officials may have been better but personally I think the right decision was made for the future of the game.
Overall the standard continues to improve and I feel optimistic.
We can both ignore Jo Tongue!
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore her when she keeps inserting herself into the situation via vacuous, attention seeking tweets. She's not a journalist any more, she's an activist. Sticking her oar in is what she is all about. More often than not, it really doesn't help, much like Sam Quek's patronisingly cringey tweet that degenerated in to a twitterfight with Lyle Taylor.
What tweet was that? I saw her say that the pundits look good, followed by Lyle apparently starting a completely unnecessary argument. What did she say that was patronising? It might have been deleted.
Don't particularly want to get into this debate. And I actually think she is wrong because this is the biggest most high profile women's sporting event ever and is about promoting women's involvement in all aspects of the game.
But I found it a bit rich that this was coming from the woman that claimed all Charlton fans were sexist because they wanted rid of Meire when she has publicly shown many times she wasn't up to the job.
Her main concern is nothing to do with equality. She's mainly annoyed that women's football is being shown up as a joke shop due to the standard of refereeing. It kicks a great big hole in her 'women in sport, you go girl!' narrative.
The basic problem is the low participation levels. The more participants, the higher the overall standard rises. That's basically why the USA are able to smash Thailand 13-0 and the refs at this tournament are not really up to international standard.
But no, instead of addressing the root of difficult questions about hopeless mismatches and sub-standard refs she wants a quick convenient fix in the name of pretend equality to stop women's football being embarrassed again.
Not many hopeless mismatches with the exception of Thailand and standard of refereeing is improving.
You seem keen to criticise through exaggeration.
Do you deny the basic point of my post? Increased participation increases standards. USA has many thousands of girls and women playing football, Thailand unfortunately doesn't.
You see the same issues with refereeing. If the pool of available referees is not large enough, the standards of those getting to the higher levels is dependent on who ever you can get rather than whoever is best.
I have no issue with women's football itself. Just the likes of Jo Tongue who isn't doing women's football any favours by pretending the problem is solved by using male referees. She should be about improving standards and encouraging female participation in the game.
She's pretending equality is the problem, when it's actually participation levels and standards.
I don't accept most of what you say - you use a dislike of a certain individual to argue other points without backing them up in my view.
Participation levels and standards have increased a lot in the women's game and this includes the refereeing. This is effectively what you've just argued for.
You go on about mismatches in your post but if you'd watched the games you'd see this only really applies to Thailand. If you watch other sporting competitions there are far more mismatches.
You also use the phrase 'joke shop' in respect of the competition so it doesn't suggest to me you've either watched it or given it a chance.
I've watched a number of the games and have been impressed by the standard and the refereeing has certainly not been as bad as you're claiming.
I'll admit, Jo Tongue starts off on minus points with me. She was prepared to throw lazy insults like "sexist" around against anyone who criticised Katrien Meire for being no good at her job, wilfully ignoring the mountain of evidence that proved she was no good at her job. Never mind the uncomfortable truth if it doesn't fit your agenda. Shouting "sexist" beats any argument, right?
The intent of my original post was that Jo Tongue has missed the point completely. As an advocate for women in sport she should be questioning why women officials are getting thrown under the bus at this tournament. Deciding to say now that the best officials should be there regardless of gender is a tacit admission that the female officials at the tournament aren't of the required standard. Her only solution as a supposed champion of women's sport? Basically, let the blokes do it. Cheers. A well thought out and argued solution that. Nothing about increasing participation, funding for professional female referees in the WSL, or any other practical suggestion.
The refereeing in this tournament certainly hasn't been up to standard on enough occasions for it to be worthy of comment, have a read back through this thread for starters, never mind the player's, manager's and media's comments. If you don't care much for my colourful language I'll frame it in more sober terms. FIFA have decided that their premier women's football competition will be officiated by women. It is therefore incumbent on them as tournament organisers to make sure the officials are of the required international standard. I would argue that they've failed to do so by relying on a pool of largely part time female officials, and then compounded the problem by throwing new rules, unworkable guidance and VAR on top.
My bringing up the USA v Thailand game was to point out how the difference in participation levels effect standards. The example is extreme, but it serves the point. The same principle applies to female referees. There aren't enough women going in to refereeing, more domestic British women's games are officiated by men than women and the standard of female referees hasn't improved at the same rate as the players. The standard won't improve any time soon without more participation and professionalisation, but not necessarily as part of men's football.
I think Jo Tongue has been a bit of a red herrring - she's certainly not someone worth listening to after her comments on KM.
The issue in women's football is certainly more with referees than players and the shortcomings are open to debate. It's probably far easier to attract women to play than officiate.
I think it's a good thing that women officials have been given the chance to officiate in this competition but as you say they've been hampered by some of the VAR changes thrust upon this competition. Having male officials may have been better but personally I think the right decision was made for the future of the game.
Overall the standard continues to improve and I feel optimistic.
We can both ignore Jo Tongue!
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore her when she keeps inserting herself into the situation via vacuous, attention seeking tweets. She's not a journalist any more, she's an activist. Sticking her oar in is what she is all about. More often than not, it really doesn't help, much like Sam Quek's patronisingly cringey tweet that degenerated in to a twitterfight with Lyle Taylor.
What tweet was that? I saw her say that the pundits look good, followed by Lyle apparently starting a completely unnecessary argument. What did she say that was patronising? It might have been deleted.
I have no idea how to embed tweets, but this is what Sam Quek tweeted along with a pic of Gaby Logan with her all female panel of footballer pundits. Tell me that's not cringe.
I have no idea how to embed tweets, but this is what Sam Quek tweeted along with a pic of Gaby Logan with her all female panel of footballer pundits. Tell me that's not cringe.
Lyle chipped in basically asking what have their looks got to do with anything and then twitter just did what twitter does.
I have no idea how old you are but since the beginning of time( that's how old I'm) the sisterhood will say things like this. My wife and daughter will compliment their female friends or strangers But will also on occasions be critical. In my experience of living, loving, working and socializing with my female friends and family I'm convinced that the Venus and Mars analogy isn't so out of this world. If the hockey player and now budding presenter Sam Querk wants to say what millions of females say everyday, then fine.
Now let's get back to the football and hope the rest of the last 16 matches are as fiesty and competitive as Norway v Australia.
I have given up trying to decipher the handball laws - Refs have completely lost the plot.
At least the ridiculous word intentional has been taken out. A hard job has been made even harder now. Can't think of any officials in any other sport that get so much stick. Refs don't write the rules but come under pressure when Fifa want them to implement new or existing rules.
Patently obvious that the interfering with play is still too subjective. The refs are all giving goals even when having a second look at the monitor. To most of us including ex pro footballers this appears to be wrong. The own goal header was caused by a offside player, Lloyd of USA was offside and made the defender play the ball and yesterday the attacker was offside and in the keepers eye line.
Nothing wrong with VAR per se but the human interpretation or rule makers need to be positive on this anomaly.
I have given up trying to decipher the handball laws - Refs have completely lost the plot.
At least the ridiculous word intentional has been taken out. A hard job has been made even harder now. Can't think of any officials in any other sport that get so much stick. Refs don't write the rules but come under pressure when Fifa want them to implement new or existing rules.
Patently obvious that the interfering with play is still too subjective. The refs are all giving goals even when having a second look at the monitor. To most of us including ex pro footballers this appears to be wrong. The own goal header was caused by a offside player, Lloyd of USA was offside and made the defender play the ball and yesterday the attacker was offside and in the keepers eye line.
Nothing wrong with VAR per se but the human interpretation or rule makers need to be positive on this anomaly.
Don't understand how the offside law works anymore - several goals seem to have been given when players were clearly offside and affecting the passage of play.
Comments
Trouble is, it's hard to ignore her when she keeps inserting herself into the situation via vacuous, attention seeking tweets. She's not a journalist any more, she's an activist. Sticking her oar in is what she is all about. More often than not, it really doesn't help, much like Sam Quek's patronisingly cringey tweet that degenerated in to a twitterfight with Lyle Taylor.
As a fan of Men's Football,
As a fan of kids football,
As a fan of football, I do feel the players and refs in this tournament have been stitched up.
WTF chose a WC for a trial for a new rule.
It's taking away from the football, which goes from the ridiculous to the sublime just like every tournament I have ever watched.
Down to the last 16 now. Most of the Amateurs and Scotland have gone home now and the last 16 are mainly professionals or semi pros.
If anyone is bored on a Sunday or at a loose end give women's football a go. I saw Cafc women's win all seven matches I went to including wins at the valley against Millwall and seeing Cafc beat Palace at Crayford and Selhurst park. Also I went to see Chelsea v Man city at Kingston where it was just £6 entry.
It is a new rule.
people saying earlier she was only 5mm off the goal line wouldn't say, 'but the ball was only 5mm over the the line so should count as a goal.'
She moved too soon - her error.
Kerr scores 4 goals in her last match, but a shocker of a pen.
Has there ever been a more beautiful and competent presenting and punditry team? #ENGSCO #GirlPower #WWC2019 #WWC19
Lyle chipped in basically asking what have their looks got to do with anything and then twitter just did what twitter does.
Now let's get back to the football and hope the rest of the last 16 matches are as fiesty and competitive as Norway v Australia.
Refs don't write the rules but come under pressure when Fifa want them to implement new or existing rules.
Patently obvious that the interfering with play is still too subjective. The refs are all giving goals even when having a second look at the monitor. To most of us including ex pro footballers this appears to be wrong.
The own goal header was caused by a offside player, Lloyd of USA was offside and made the defender play the ball and yesterday the attacker was offside and in the keepers eye line.
Nothing wrong with VAR per se but the human interpretation or rule makers need to be positive on this anomaly.