Denly may not be a test batsman in absolute terms it is true but the cupboard of decent red ball batsmen is so bare that someone like Denly with some guts and grit is better than most of what we have.
There are others that deserve to be dropped before him.
The latest in a long line of batsmen - not just openers - who've done just well enough to not be dropped, but not well enough to ever be secure
I like Denly, but he's no better than Malan for example or Ballance
I agree with you to an extent but would just make the point that the other two you mention knew where they would bat match on match. Denly has been shunted around virtually from Day 1.
Denly may not be a test batsman in absolute terms it is true but the cupboard of decent red ball batsmen is so bare that someone like Denly with some guts and grit is better than most of what we have.
There are others that deserve to be dropped before him.
The latest in a long line of batsmen - not just openers - who've done just well enough to not be dropped, but not well enough to ever be secure
I like Denly, but he's no better than Malan for example or Ballance
I agree with you to an extent but would just make the point that the other two you mention knew where they would bat match on match. Denly has been shunted around virtually from Day 1.
I agree, though that's partially because he hasn't scored enough runs to make the No 3 slot his own. Indeed one of the reasons Root shifted himself to 3 was because the top 3, including Denly, weren't lasting long enough...
Denly may not be a test batsman in absolute terms it is true but the cupboard of decent red ball batsmen is so bare that someone like Denly with some guts and grit is better than most of what we have.
There are others that deserve to be dropped before him.
The latest in a long line of batsmen - not just openers - who've done just well enough to not be dropped, but not well enough to ever be secure
I like Denly, but he's no better than Malan for example or Ballance
I agree with you to an extent but would just make the point that the other two you mention knew where they would bat match on match. Denly has been shunted around virtually from Day 1.
I think one of the two positives that have come out of this series for England (other than Archer's appearance) is that we now have an opening partnership that we can go into the S African series with. It looks better than any partnership we have had for a long, long time.
Having the world cup and Ashes in the same summer should never of happened.
Preparation for the Ashes was poor.
TBH, and i'm sure you will agree, that we have played the team with the No. 1 batsman in the world and the No. 1 bowler in the world - preparation would like have made little difference. Smith and Cummins have been ultra outstanding- and both SMith and Cummins played in the WC too.
Having the world cup and Ashes in the same summer should never of happened.
Preparation for the Ashes was poor.
TBH, and i'm sure you will agree, that we have played the team with the No. 1 batsman in the world and the No. 1 bowler in the world - preparation would like have made little difference. Smith and Cummins have been ultra outstanding- and both SMith and Cummins played in the WC too.
Can't argue with you regarding Smith and Cummings that's for sure.
Bayliss was bought in for one job & one job only, and that was to win the world cup.
This series for us had the feel of a side that was being coached by a man whose heart wasn't really in it.
New man in and new priorities. Think there's talent in this squad. Just need to eek it out of them. Don't think the cupboards too full with alternative world renowned test batsmen and bowlers.
New coach is going to be a massive call.
I agree with all of this. I think a change of captain is needed too though
Walked into work just as the last ball had been bowled. My Aussie colleague who was just finishing wasn't very forthcoming with sympathy! Mind you, I wasn't exactly bombarding him with congrats.
My argument that we'd won the world cup and was a little jaded didn't hold much water.
" You pomms not capable of winning both in the same summer then mate?"
Denly may not be a test batsman in absolute terms it is true but the cupboard of decent red ball batsmen is so bare that someone like Denly with some guts and grit is better than most of what we have.
There are others that deserve to be dropped before him.
The latest in a long line of batsmen - not just openers - who've done just well enough to not be dropped, but not well enough to ever be secure
I like Denly, but he's no better than Malan for example or Ballance
I agree with you to an extent but would just make the point that the other two you mention knew where they would bat match on match. Denly has been shunted around virtually from Day 1.
I think one of the two positives that have come out of this series for England (other than Archer's appearance) is that we now have an opening partnership that we can go into the S African series with. It looks better than any partnership we have had for a long, long time.
Can’t believe knives are still out for denly. The only specialist batsman to have shown any bottle this series.
I've kept Denly in for now as I agree he has earnt some more time. But I also would say Burns has scored some pretty tough runs this series with a century, a good 80 and a 60 odd. Hes the only opener to have any real success. And hes done it in the first innings of a test which no other england batsman has.
I can't agree that if we had been better prepared, it would have made little difference. If that is true there's no point preparing properly for anything.
I also think a fundamental lack of direction for the test side has been a serious issue. I posted after the last test about the chopping and changing. We don't seem to have a plan.
The aussies have been better than us. Their bowlers have been top class. But then we re missing Jimmy Wood and stone. Take 3 out of their 6 out and suddenly they wont be the same prospect.
In the batting the difference has been smith who has been another level.
They have been the better side. They've won more sessions more days and more games. We have had opportunities to dominate but let them slip. Having them 120 odd for 8 in the first test if we had a 4th seamer we would have finished them off.
Lords we might have won were it not for the rain or the Roy dropped catch.
Headingley was something special but we had been shocking for most of that game.
It was too much to ask for another miracle to save the game today.
In football with limited resources you choose between League and Cup. In cricket you choose between red and white ball. England chose white and won the World Cup.
We've had loads of good luck - umpiring decisions, misfields, super overs.
And loads of bad luck - Anderson injured, Stokes injured, etc.
The wonderful, ridiculous, compelling nature of test cricket is being played out in microcosm here. A match in which Australia have dominated for more than three and a half days, where their batsmen and bowlers have outplayed ours from start to finish, will only be decided in the final few matchups of the last few overs on the last evening. And it's between Australa's best bowlers and or worst batsmen.
And some people STILL don't think it's the best sport in the world.
When you aren't deliberatly being an obtuse prick you do actually talk some sense.
Due to some crying from Chizz because he "doesn't like swearing" (?!) I retract the use of the word prick.
Looking beyond the Ashes, Central Contracts are due for renewal on 1st October. There will be a lot of hard decisions to be made with a number of those (in bold) potentially struggling to justify being awarded new ones:
Test:Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
White-ball: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Liam Plunkett (Surrey) Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham)
Increment: Jofra Archer (Sussex), Tom Curran (Surrey)
Looking beyond the Ashes, Central Contracts are due for renewal on 1st October. There will be a lot of hard decisions to be made with a number of those (in bold) potentially struggling to justify being awarded new ones:
Test:Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
White-ball: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Liam Plunkett (Surrey) Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham)
Increment: Jofra Archer (Sussex), Tom Curran (Surrey)
Plunkett was key to us winning the world cup. Agree we may look to move on now though.
As for wood he played every game in the world cup and was exceptional. He plays every game he's fit in all formats in my view. No way is his getting removed.
Looking beyond the Ashes, Central Contracts are due for renewal on 1st October. There will be a lot of hard decisions to be made with a number of those (in bold) potentially struggling to justify being awarded new ones:
Test:Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
White-ball: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Liam Plunkett (Surrey) Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham)
Increment: Jofra Archer (Sussex), Tom Curran (Surrey)
Plunkett was key to us winning the world cup. Agree we may look to move on now though.
As for wood he played every game in the world cup and was exceptional. He plays every game he's fit in all formats in my view. No way is his getting removed.
And therein lies the problem. Giving a £1m to a player who might be injured all year. He can still be selected but will have to prove his fitness - as he would had he been centrally contracted. He's 30 shortly and his injury issues aren't going to get any better. He hasn't even played a single match since the World Cup.
The ECB may well give him a contract out of loyalty. But I'm willing to wager that they don't get a dozen ODIs/T20s out of him in the year commencing 1st October.
We won the World Cup and could still level the series. Smith has been the glaring difference, but overall their bowling has been a bit better too so you can't begrudge them the Ashes. We need to bring in some new bowlers alongside Archer and look to the future.
He gets in the team on 3 attributes of his game and is selected as the spinner yet because he is a quality batsman and fielder we end up relying on him and setting high expectations for everything. Hope he takes all the time he needs away from cricket to get his head right and comes back stubborn to either bat or bowl
You would hope that Root would stand down , and acknowledge his shortcomings as captain (there have been too many strange decisions by him this series) - let him concentrate on his batting. It would be great to try to change Morgans mind and get him to captain Englnad , even if only for a couple years. It looks like we have an opening pair in Burns and Denly now, with Root at 3, and Morgs at 4 then Stokes at 5, Buttler 6 and Foakes 7, Overton at 8 (though not sure about his bowling tbh), Archer;Broad and maybe Curran. Really dont think it makes sense to 1) retain Root as skipper or 2) Promote Stokes to skipper.
Why are you so keen on Morgan as captain? you told everyone on here you don't like the Irish
I love Morgs. I remember being at the Grange and personally telling him he was a genius.
I’m feeling for Root right now. There are those far more qualified than I that say he had all the necessary attributes to be a great captain. Just hasn’t looked comfortable at all this series.
Comments
Preparation for the Ashes was poor.
My Aussie colleague who was just finishing wasn't very forthcoming with sympathy! Mind you, I wasn't exactly bombarding him with congrats.
My argument that we'd won the world cup and was a little jaded didn't hold much water.
" You pomms not capable of winning both in the same summer then mate?"
He has a point. Convict *****!!
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad
Looks much more balanced side to me.
Looking beyond the next match would want Cawley to make the squad. Wood, Anderson, Woakes, Stone and Moeen all in contention.
If that is true there's no point preparing properly for anything.
I also think a fundamental lack of direction for the test side has been a serious issue. I posted after the last test about the chopping and changing. We don't seem to have a plan.
The aussies have been better than us. Their bowlers have been top class. But then we re missing Jimmy Wood and stone. Take 3 out of their 6 out and suddenly they wont be the same prospect.
In the batting the difference has been smith who has been another level.
They have been the better side. They've won more sessions more days and more games. We have had opportunities to dominate but let them slip. Having them 120 odd for 8 in the first test if we had a 4th seamer we would have finished them off.
Lords we might have won were it not for the rain or the Roy dropped catch.
Headingley was something special but we had been shocking for most of that game.
It was too much to ask for another miracle to save the game today.
We've had loads of good luck - umpiring decisions, misfields, super overs.
And loads of bad luck - Anderson injured, Stokes injured, etc.
All in all they put up a decent fight.
But we do need better leadership on the pitch.
Test: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
White-ball: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Liam Plunkett (Surrey)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham)
Increment: Jofra Archer (Sussex), Tom Curran (Surrey)
As for wood he played every game in the world cup and was exceptional. He plays every game he's fit in all formats in my view. No way is his getting removed.
The ECB may well give him a contract out of loyalty. But I'm willing to wager that they don't get a dozen ODIs/T20s out of him in the year commencing 1st October.
He gets in the team on 3 attributes of his game and is selected as the spinner yet because he is a quality batsman and fielder we end up relying on him and setting high expectations for everything. Hope he takes all the time he needs away from cricket to get his head right and comes back stubborn to either bat or bowl
There are those far more qualified than I that say he had all the necessary attributes to be a great captain.
Just hasn’t looked comfortable at all this series.