I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.
Easy excuse to blame everything on at the moment
what would you put it down to then? it's clear the country has taken a far right direction politically in the last 3 years, we have a Prime Minister elected despite writing racist articles in the press, it's given the green light to racists who think society is anti foreigners. One or 2 incidents of racism in society and football all of a sudden has become an epidemic. Prior to 2016 it was virtually eradicated
Epidemic, listen to you. As soon as it happens at an international, there's more than likely gonna be a few divs copy it, then the media gets hold of it and it's all over the place.
Even mentioned on the news that 1 fan was ejected from Old Trafford yesterday v Liverpool for racism 1 fan! Yes good he got kicked out but this just seems like the media are covering themselves coz of the coverage given to Bulgaria v England. They will soon stop reporting incidents and we all carry on until the next time. Just makes me sad that nothing really seems to get done.
This thread is quality. So far, rural West Country has racist tendencies compared to Bristol (even though there were allegations of racism at Bristol v Luton ) and/or it’s mainly down to Brexit as racism in football was virtually eradicated pre 2016 !
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
If you take that 'very small' percentage and apply it to the nation, then though the percentage is small, the number will probably be quite a lot higher than people expect.
I agree with the rest of your post. It's nothing new sadly, but has been increasing for years, it's just not been covered as much by the media.
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
If you take that 'very small' percentage and apply it to the nation, then though the percentage is small, the number will probably be quite a lot higher than people expect.
I agree with the rest of your post. It's nothing new sadly, but has been increasing for years, it's just not been covered as much by the media.
I'm not so sure mate. I think everyone is aware, and accept, there are plenty of wankers that walk among us, whatever their wanky penchant might be
As long as there are racists in this country, there will be incidents of racist behaviour. I think this was alluded to in the Bulgaria thread. It seems to me, Yeovil acted responsibly and the individuals concerned should rightfully be punished rather than the club. This also highlights that we have to continue to be vigilant. They go to games they think they can get away with it in and we have to close the opportunities so there are no games they can go to.
But that doesn't cure racism, it merely gets it out of football, and we should be mindful of that.
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
If you take that 'very small' percentage and apply it to the nation, then though the percentage is small, the number will probably be quite a lot higher than people expect.
I agree with the rest of your post. It's nothing new sadly, but has been increasing for years, it's just not been covered as much by the media.
Really? I don't remember 6 or 7 separate incidents of racist abuse on 1 weekend 3 or 4 years ago. We may not have completely doused the fire, you never will but this has slowly crept back into the game more and more recently whether you like to admit it or not
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
If you take that 'very small' percentage and apply it to the nation, then though the percentage is small, the number will probably be quite a lot higher than people expect.
I agree with the rest of your post. It's nothing new sadly, but has been increasing for years, it's just not been covered as much by the media.
Really? I don't remember 6 or 7 separate incidents of racist abuse on 1 weekend 3 or 4 years ago. We may not have completely doused the fire, you never will but this has slowly crept back into the game more and more recently whether you like to admit it or not
It hasn't, people have been nicked / ejected for it throughout the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's, all over the UK, including Scotland.
Like I said before, it was the first weekend after the England players were abused, which says to me, the media were looking for it and they got it from a very small inbred minority. It's been condemned unanimously on here and I reckon that would be the overall consensus on every other league clubs supporters forums.
A racist doesn't stop being a racist because they lose their opportunity to voice their views in stadiums and other spheres. A civilised 21st century society has to try to educate and also remove any platform for racists. I think over the last few years that standards have dropped a bit. Not in football, but in society. It doesn't help when it is encouraged by mainstream politicians for their own ends, but we should all be concerned that race hate crimes in this country have been massively on the increase.
Football can't fix society but it can make sure everybody knows that there is a zero tolerance to racism in grounds. As I have said before, I'm sure racists still go to games, but they know they have to shut up.If you give them a little space where they start to think they might get away with racist statements, they will try to get through it. It is the responsibility of clubs and fans and players and managers for that matter to ensure that gap never appears. I think football wants to achieve this, but it is never a battle you can say you have won. We all have to be continuously vigilant.
When you have groups of between 2000 and 75000 people, in a highly charged atmosphere and some pissed up. You will get the few who will act up and they're rooted out and dealt with, I'm not really sure what else can be done?
If you're talking about people being racist in society at large, again, what else do you propose is done? I think racism (white people verbally abusing black people), is a very small problem in society compared to quite a few others, and as has been said, it is something that gets challenged and prosecutions do follow
When you have groups of between 2000 and 75000 people, in a highly charged atmosphere and some pissed up. You will get the few who will act up and they're rooted out and dealt with, I'm not really sure what else can be done?
If you're talking about people being racist in society at large, again, what else do you propose is done? I think racism (white people verbally abusing black people), is a very small problem in society compared to quite a few others, and as has been said, it is something that gets challenged and prosecutions do follow
White people verbally abusing black people isn't the only form of racism.
Try telling those on the receiving end of much more subtle discrimination on a daily basis that it's a small problem in society
When you have groups of between 2000 and 75000 people, in a highly charged atmosphere and some pissed up. You will get the few who will act up and they're rooted out and dealt with, I'm not really sure what else can be done?
If you're talking about people being racist in society at large, again, what else do you propose is done? I think racism (white people verbally abusing black people), is a very small problem in society compared to quite a few others, and as has been said, it is something that gets challenged and prosecutions do follow
White people verbally abusing black people isn't the only form of racism.
Try telling those on the receiving end of much more subtle discrimination on a daily basis that it's a small problem in society
But that isn't what this thread is about. The other forms of discrimination is exactly the other problems that I'm talking about, among others. So you've basically agreed with me
A racist doesn't stop being a racist because they lose their opportunity to voice their views in stadiums and other spheres. A civilised 21st century society has to try to educate and also remove any platform for racists. I think over the last few years that standards have dropped a bit. Not in football, but in society. It doesn't help when it is encouraged by mainstream politicians for their own ends, but we should all be concerned that race hate crimes in this country have been massively on the increase.
Football can't fix society but it can make sure everybody knows that there is a zero tolerance to racism in grounds. As I have said before, I'm sure racists still go to games, but they know they have to shut up.If you give them a little space where they start to think they might get away with racist statements, they will try to get through it. It is the responsibility of clubs and fans and players and managers for that matter to ensure that gap never appears. I think football wants to achieve this, but it is never a battle you can say you have won. We all have to be continuously vigilant.
Spot on. It doesn't help (in society) when we have politicians pushing right wing agendas, Farage becoming a hero on an anti Foreigner ticket to the point where the PM has to appease his followers with certain language like 'Surrender', Trump saying 'go back to your own country' etc. All of a sudden that tiny piece of bigotry in people ignites, before you know it, racism rears its ugly head and all the years of hard work in unity and tolerance is undone
@i_b_b_o_r_g racism isn't just white people verbally abusing black people, if anything that's the trivial end of it when compared to systematic racist abuse in employment, the police, and lots of other areas of life. As the black England players pointed out last week, they're used to dealing with verbal abuse, the point is they shouldn't have to be.
I think it's ridiculous to claim that Brexit has caused the racism we've seen at football matches this weekend, but what it has done is made those likely to do it more confident in their views, as they assume (wrongly in my view) that the 2016 vote means half the country is behind them. (Anyway, better be careful, straying into politics )
On the incidents at Haringey v Yeovil, Northampton, Luton, etc., the individuals concerned need to be identified and prosecuted. I think pretty much every club nowadays takes racism seriously and tries to stop it in their grounds - not always successfully, despite their best efforts (and to be fair we should include Millwall here, the club work really hard on racism and a section of the fanbase there show them up). I think allowing games to be stopped for racism from the crowd could play out badly but equally, something needs to be done.
@i_b_b_o_r_g racism isn't just white people verbally abusing black people, if anything that's the trivial end of it when compared to systematic racist abuse in employment, the police, and lots of other areas of life. As the black England players pointed out last week, they're used to dealing with verbal abuse, the point is they shouldn't have to be.
I think it's ridiculous to claim that Brexit has caused the racism we've seen at football matches this weekend, but what it has done is made those likely to do it more confident in their views, as they assume (wrongly in my view) that the 2016 vote means half the country is behind them. (Anyway, better be careful, straying into politics )
On the incidents at Haringey v Yeovil, Northampton, Luton, etc., the individuals concerned need to be identified and prosecuted. I think pretty much every club nowadays takes racism seriously and tries to stop it in their grounds - not always successfully, despite their best efforts (and to be fair we should include Millwall here, the club work really hard on racism and a section of the fanbase there show them up). I think allowing games to be stopped for racism from the crowd could play out badly but equally, something needs to be done.
I only mention white on black verbal abuse because that's the theme of the thread. I KNOW ITS NOT THE ONLY FORM OF RACISM AND THATS WHAT I ALLUDED TO IN TBE POST.
Not read the rest of you post because I'm just about to start the graft 😉
I didn't mean to bring Brexit into it. Most people who voted to leave are not racists. My point was targeted at some politicians who played the racist card. Farage springs to mind standing in front of that poster. But the politician I had the biggest grip with was Gove. Simply because he clearly isn't racist and he made a true statement, but it was reckless. He said you don't have to be racist to want immigration controls. Now that is true, but some racists would read that and think it is alright to be racist.
What society needs to do is smother racists. It can't cure most of them. It has to make them feel that they can't open their mouths. Great I say and nothing should be done to encourage them to, nothing whatsoever. Yes if they get drunk they might feel liberated to spout their evil, but I think the way this game was handled was great and they should be treated in such a way that other racists learn from it.
You have to be careful at what you say. Another example is health and safety. People want to moan about our health and safety orientated society. Well what about Grenfall. It is all bollocks. We should be happy that there is a health and safety focus and realise that there is more to do - not push against it.
And it is often white middle aged people that don't think there is a problem. A big reason for this is that they don't experience it themselves.
The hard part is if you're at Charlton and a group of five solid looking twenty something's near you start the verbal racist abuse. I am not confident reporting to a steward will have an effect. My inclination is to film it and verbally challenge the group and demand they stop. My hope is that fellow fans would back me up, hope not expectation. If that leads to me getting assaulted I would have to fight back as best I can and take the pain or injuries.
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
Has anybody said that it's only since 2016, or is that just a casual way of dismissing the unwanted truth?
You are right, and we have a responsibility to talk to each other and stand up as a group to a group. But I agree, ultimately you can't be afraid of getting hurt to stand up to this. But I honestly haven't seen it at the Valley for many years. I think there is generally a hostile environment towards it. But I am concerned it can happen at away games. If they think they can get away with it, be that because of their numbers, because they are pissed, or because they feel they won't have somebody come down on them like a ton of bricks, they will do it. Racism hasn't been cured and football can't cure it. But we can ensure it is behaviour that is not tolerated in our house.
As someone said previously it could be a nightmare going to football in the 70s/80s when it came to racist abuse on the terraces. There was no attempt to address it back then.
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
Has anybody said that it's only since 2016, or is that just a casual way of dismissing the unwanted truth?
@snowinberlin stated it was virtually eradicated in 2016 until the Brexit referendum.
Blind to the clear fact that it was reported less in the Television and Radio media, but still a massive problem.
How many people go football on an average Saturday in England?
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
Has anybody said that it's only since 2016, or is that just a casual way of dismissing the unwanted truth?
Comments
Yes good he got kicked out but this just seems like the media are covering themselves coz of the coverage given to Bulgaria v England. They will soon stop reporting incidents and we all carry on until the next time. Just makes me sad that nothing really seems to get done.
700K?
A very small percentage partake in horribly abusing players, including racially. This has gone on, none stop, for time immemorial and it must be condemned, which it has been. But to say it has only been going since 2016, fueled by BoJo and Brexit, and is in epidemic proportion is BS quite frankly and, if anything, trivialises the real issue imo
I agree with the rest of your post. It's nothing new sadly, but has been increasing for years, it's just not been covered as much by the media.
But that doesn't cure racism, it merely gets it out of football, and we should be mindful of that.
Thankfully so far no one has.
Like I said before, it was the first weekend after the England players were abused, which says to me, the media were looking for it and they got it from a very small inbred minority. It's been condemned unanimously on here and I reckon that would be the overall consensus on every other league clubs supporters forums.
Football can't fix society but it can make sure everybody knows that there is a zero tolerance to racism in grounds. As I have said before, I'm sure racists still go to games, but they know they have to shut up.If you give them a little space where they start to think they might get away with racist statements, they will try to get through it. It is the responsibility of clubs and fans and players and managers for that matter to ensure that gap never appears. I think football wants to achieve this, but it is never a battle you can say you have won. We all have to be continuously vigilant.
If you're talking about people being racist in society at large, again, what else do you propose is done? I think racism (white people verbally abusing black people), is a very small problem in society compared to quite a few others, and as has been said, it is something that gets challenged and prosecutions do follow
Try telling those on the receiving end of much more subtle discrimination on a daily basis that it's a small problem in society
Why, you condone it?
I think it's ridiculous to claim that Brexit has caused the racism we've seen at football matches this weekend, but what it has done is made those likely to do it more confident in their views, as they assume (wrongly in my view) that the 2016 vote means half the country is behind them. (Anyway, better be careful, straying into politics
On the incidents at Haringey v Yeovil, Northampton, Luton, etc., the individuals concerned need to be identified and prosecuted. I think pretty much every club nowadays takes racism seriously and tries to stop it in their grounds - not always successfully, despite their best efforts (and to be fair we should include Millwall here, the club work really hard on racism and a section of the fanbase there show them up). I think allowing games to be stopped for racism from the crowd could play out badly but equally, something needs to be done.
Not read the rest of you post because I'm just about to start the graft 😉
What society needs to do is smother racists. It can't cure most of them. It has to make them feel that they can't open their mouths. Great I say and nothing should be done to encourage them to, nothing whatsoever. Yes if they get drunk they might feel liberated to spout their evil, but I think the way this game was handled was great and they should be treated in such a way that other racists learn from it.
You have to be careful at what you say. Another example is health and safety. People want to moan about our health and safety orientated society. Well what about Grenfall. It is all bollocks. We should be happy that there is a health and safety focus and realise that there is more to do - not push against it.
And it is often white middle aged people that don't think there is a problem. A big reason for this is that they don't experience it themselves.
I am not confident reporting to a steward will have an effect.
My inclination is to film it and verbally challenge the group and demand they stop. My hope is that fellow fans would back me up, hope not expectation.
If that leads to me getting assaulted I would have to fight back as best I can and take the pain or injuries.
Has anybody said that it's only since 2016, or is that just a casual way of dismissing the unwanted truth?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/20/racism-on-the-rise-since-brexit-vote-nationwide-study-reveals
http://www.irr.org.uk/email/brexit-and-xeno-racism-help-us-to-build-the-national-picture/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/racism-brexit-school-eastern-europe-teachers-referendum-vote-a9073636.html
https://pure.southwales.ac.uk/files/546307/64121_237971_1_PB.pdf