I reckon, as someone else has posted, we end up with a huge sponsorship deal next year (maybe shirt and stadium) that will cover the 50mill to Roland and ESI will have got the club and infrastucture for next-to-nothing without having to sump up a massive sum of cash up front
Are you able to expand publicly on the issues concerning the purchase of the Freehold that other parties have said put them off proceeding. Why are they highly sceptical in ESI’s ability to follow through?
We know that Nimer’s guarantee has been put up re the Freehold purchase within 6 month’s, but can the issues be resolved within that time frame? Are all the issues within their control?
No, because the detail has never been elaborated, but it has been a consistent story over months.
My point on the freehold is that if its purchase is certain (that is, ESI are confident no obstacle can possibly arise that will prevent it) then there is no obvious reason it hasn’t been done already other than availability of funds. If on the other hand further due diligence is required - after two years of same by a variety of parties - then it isn’t certain. It is instead “subject to survey” or similar.
Thanks. Usually the purchase of a freehold is easier than a long lease purchase as what you are getting is set out at the Land Registry. Only problems usually can be boundary issues or legal disputes although the latter is usually highlighted in Land Registry searches. One issue of course could be actual ownership of the Freeholds if ownership is overseas in which case I suspect the Land Reg wont transfer title until clean / they are satisfied.
It was Baton that was (is) owned overseas, with the freehold and leases owned via UK subsidiaries at all times AFAIK. There may be complications around different pieces of land on both sites e.g. title confusion with Footscray Rugby Club land. I’m not sure why that is referred to in the new charge on CAFC Limited but assume it relates to recent works / CACT facilities. The football club built an access road across the rugby club land so presumably has established a right to use it. There appears to be or have been a legal dispute over that work, but the club has never explained anything about it. As far as I know the freeholder there is the council.
ESI would presumably buy Holdings, rather than transfer the freehold, so I’m not sure the Land Registry would be involved?
ESI would of course buy Holdings as you say but they would have to do the usual checks at the Land Registry to confirm what Holdings actually owns and if there are any disputes etc on title. The access road at Sparrows Lane and rights to use it maybe an issue as rights of way take years (12?) to establish without anyone raising a dispute. The rugby club may stop us using it and that may be an issue with the new planning permission??
If this is a property play as Albury has suggested, why has Nimer guaranteed to buy in 6 months (if that is what has actually been guaranteed)? What happens if we don’t buy the freeholds - does RD go against the guarantor or is he happy just to remain freeholder?
some excellent considered responses to @Grapevine49 here, from both @Airman Brown and @Henry Irving. Let's keep it going (when there is something tangible to add, of course)
In that regard I would offer two things. One re Taylor. I have been told two relevant things, from the same source. One, the Model. Among other things, the Model states that no player will earn more than the manager. As a principle, IMO, that is a good one, although it will inevitably come under strain. I've been told that we indeed offered Taylor a new contract early in the window, and it was in the region of 16k/week. It would appear Taylor hasn't signed it. He may well believe that he can get more, and he may well be right, but in the meantime he is still our player and we saw yesterday that this talk about Taylor sulking, for the 2nd time this season, is nonsense. Lyle Taylor is a very non-standard type, when it comes to footballers. He might have come to the novel conclusion that the best way to get a pay rise, is to do his job brilliantly between now and May.
Two, re the property play as the basis of ESI's business plan. I don't think there is a shred of evidence to support this. Admittedly the involvement of Lee Amis in bringing ESI to the table did encourage this speculation when his name came to light - and I confess my part in that on here. But I am now convinced that this is not his game this time round. Perhaps more importantly, in 2010-14 when he was pushing this model, there were sites, but AFAIK, now, there are not, not on any reasonable time horizon.
@DagenhamAddick I notice you signed up on here in Nov 2019. I'd suggest your above post on alternatives to The Valley could mean that your grasp of our history only goes back a short while.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
@DagenhamAddick I notice you signed up on here in Nov 2019. I'd suggest your above post on alternatives to The Valley could mean that your grasp of our history only goes back a short while.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
No I’m 47 and used to ride my really crap bike to Sellout and hide it a garden in one of the side streets. It had really long grass so nobody knew it was there:) I love the Valley but for me to really push on and compete I simply don't see the site as commercially viable in the long term. A site at the 02 makes sense if there is any going. Maybe the club could actually build a load of social housing on the valley which could genuinely be affordable. If there are any other sites that might be viable then that's what these forums are for to some degree. Discuss?
I like the message in grapevines post - yes, things are still outstanding in the deal which ideally wouldn't be but on the basis that we had at least 2 years where no other group could close the deal then we are where we are (unless of course we would have preferred a slow painful slip backwards under rd) and we really need ESI to succeed. Nothing wrong with keeping our eyes wide open as things proceed but i definitely sit in the 'benefit of the doubt' camp rather than the 'that's evidence they are potless spivs' camp. I think i read that the work on the training ground is due to start in the summer? Well taking it from the current plans to a point where a contractor is ready to start will involve significant fees in design and tendering and should be getting under way now if to start in summer.Evidence of that expenditure would be a positive, reassuring step. And if they need a company to project manage all that, they only need to contact me!!! It would be an honour !!!
@DagenhamAddick I notice you signed up on here in Nov 2019. I'd suggest your above post on alternatives to The Valley could mean that your grasp of our history only goes back a short while.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
No I’m 47 and used to ride my really crap bike to Sellout and hide it a garden in one of the side streets. It had really long grass so nobody knew it was there:) I love the Valley but for me to really push on and compete I simply don't see the site as commercially viable in the long term. A site at the 02 makes sense if there is any going. Maybe the club could actually build a load of social housing on the valley which could genuinely be affordable. If there are any other sites that might be viable then that's what these forums are for to some degree. Discuss?
Preferably not on this thread. There are other threads you could resurrect, though, and in doing so you'll see some of your questions, e.g. re social housing, already answered.
@DagenhamAddick I notice you signed up on here in Nov 2019. I'd suggest your above post on alternatives to The Valley could mean that your grasp of our history only goes back a short while.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
No I’m 47 and used to ride my really crap bike to Sellout and hide it a garden in one of the side streets. It had really long grass so nobody knew it was there:) I love the Valley but for me to really push on and compete I simply don't see the site as commercially viable in the long term. A site at the 02 makes sense if there is any going. Maybe the club could actually build a load of social housing on the valley which could genuinely be affordable. If there are any other sites that might be viable then that's what these forums are for to some degree. Discuss?
everybody is entitled to an opinion but i see zero benefit in moving away from the valley and would be gutted if it ever happened (again)
@DagenhamAddick I notice you signed up on here in Nov 2019. I'd suggest your above post on alternatives to The Valley could mean that your grasp of our history only goes back a short while.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
No I’m 47 and used to ride my really crap bike to Sellout and hide it a garden in one of the side streets. It had really long grass so nobody knew it was there:) I love the Valley but for me to really push on and compete I simply don't see the site as commercially viable in the long term. A site at the 02 makes sense if there is any going. Maybe the club could actually build a load of social housing on the valley which could genuinely be affordable. If there are any other sites that might be viable then that's what these forums are for to some degree. Discuss?
Staying at The Valley is all we need to do.
A capacity between 35-40k is more than enough for us.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
I'd like to see us win the FA Cup and play in Europe. Couldn't care less about leisure facilities at the stadium.
We ain't moving... Plans are already in place for development of the Valley and the training ground, and there are additional potential developments being explored for later down the line. "Property play" can firmly be knocked on the head.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
Becoming souless like the Milton Keynes Stadium? No thank you.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
I'd like to see us win the FA Cup and play in Europe. Couldn't care less about leisure facilities at the stadium.
Absolutely this. I honestly think I've reached a point in my life when if we move from the Valley they would leave me behind. To precis Grapevines post, "fucking" "shit" and "bollocks"
The first big test of the money behind the new ownership & their ambition was the January transfer window. I don’t think this was a major success, but it wasn’t a complete failure.
The next big test will be whether the acquisition of the stadium and training ground is completed by July 1st, if not there would be significant cause for concern.
Giving Taylor a new contract, with the wages that would have gone with it, would have been a statement of intent.
Assuming he wants to stay with us.
Our of interest, can Taylor sign a new contract / extension outside of the transfer window??. If so that could be sorted at any time to suit all parties.
The first big test of the money behind the new ownership & their ambition was the January transfer window. I don’t think this was a major success, but it wasn’t a complete failure.
The next big test will be whether the acquisition of the stadium and training ground is completed by July 1st, if not there would be significant cause for concern.
Giving Taylor a new contract, with the wages that would have gone with it, would have been a statement of intent.
Assuming he wants to stay with us.
Our of interest, can Taylor sign a new contract / extension outside of the transfer window??. If so that could be sorted at any time to suit all parties.
He’s still under contract so, as far as I know, can sign any time.
The first big test of the money behind the new ownership & their ambition was the January transfer window. I don’t think this was a major success, but it wasn’t a complete failure.
The next big test will be whether the acquisition of the stadium and training ground is completed by July 1st, if not there would be significant cause for concern.
Giving Taylor a new contract, with the wages that would have gone with it, would have been a statement of intent.
Assuming he wants to stay with us.
Our of interest, can Taylor sign a new contract / extension outside of the transfer window??. If so that could be sorted at any time to suit all parties.
The first big test of the money behind the new ownership & their ambition was the January transfer window. I don’t think this was a major success, but it wasn’t a complete failure.
The next big test will be whether the acquisition of the stadium and training ground is completed by July 1st, if not there would be significant cause for concern.
Giving Taylor a new contract, with the wages that would have gone with it, would have been a statement of intent.
Assuming he wants to stay with us.
Our of interest, can Taylor sign a new contract / extension outside of the transfer window??. If so that could be sorted at any time to suit all parties.
The first big test of the money behind the new ownership & their ambition was the January transfer window. I don’t think this was a major success, but it wasn’t a complete failure.
The next big test will be whether the acquisition of the stadium and training ground is completed by July 1st, if not there would be significant cause for concern.
Giving Taylor a new contract, with the wages that would have gone with it, would have been a statement of intent.
Assuming he wants to stay with us.
Our of interest, can Taylor sign a new contract / extension outside of the transfer window??. If so that could be sorted at any time to suit all parties.
A pre-contract agreement with another club perhaps, to start when his current one finishes on the the 30th June?
**edit** I misread your post, although I am the above applies.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
Becoming souless like the Milton Keynes Stadium? No thank you.
Exactly the nightmare vision i had when I read that. Followed by a bigger version, located quite close to Dagenham...oh, and one I visited in Belgium once, along with quite a few other Lifers...RD would have loved a Charlton fan who wanted us to "maximise footfall", as opposed to maximising football wins.
But I suspect I have fallen into the troll trap, sorry folks.
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
Becoming souless like the Milton Keynes Stadium? No thank you.
Exactly the nightmare vision i had when I read that. Followed by a bigger version, located quite close to Dagenham...oh, and one I visited in Belgium once, along with quite a few other Lifers...RD would have loved a Charlton fan who wanted us to "maximise footfall", as opposed to maximising football wins.
But I suspect I have fallen into the troll trap, sorry folks.
Not a troll. Genuine opinion but I totally understand the opposite point of view:) That's if it's a reference to my point?
But imagine moving to a site where there were restaurants and pubs,leisure outlets and more with footfall maximising these elements. I want to see the real potential of our club realised before I shuffle off
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
Becoming souless like the Milton Keynes Stadium? No thank you.
Exactly the nightmare vision i had when I read that. Followed by a bigger version, located quite close to Dagenham...oh, and one I visited in Belgium once, along with quite a few other Lifers...RD would have loved a Charlton fan who wanted us to "maximise footfall", as opposed to maximising football wins.
But I suspect I have fallen into the troll trap, sorry folks.
F*** going for a drink after the match, I can go to TK Maxx outside the main stand.....................
I’m failing to follow the logic that ESI’s strategy is a “property play”. If it were, why didn’t they purchase the property?
Because they don’t want The Valley
So then, in what way would it be a property play?
Because Roland keeps The Valley for subsequent development and therefore they don’t pay him the c £50m - he keeps The Valley and develops it whilst ESI select a new site which has other development opportunities which will include a football stadium which will cost whatever - maybe £100-300m which is easier to raise funding
Comments
Let's keep it going (when there is something tangible to add, of course)
In that regard I would offer two things. One re Taylor. I have been told two relevant things, from the same source. One, the Model. Among other things, the Model states that no player will earn more than the manager. As a principle, IMO, that is a good one, although it will inevitably come under strain. I've been told that we indeed offered Taylor a new contract early in the window, and it was in the region of 16k/week. It would appear Taylor hasn't signed it. He may well believe that he can get more, and he may well be right, but in the meantime he is still our player and we saw yesterday that this talk about Taylor sulking, for the 2nd time this season, is nonsense. Lyle Taylor is a very non-standard type, when it comes to footballers. He might have come to the novel conclusion that the best way to get a pay rise, is to do his job brilliantly between now and May.
Two, re the property play as the basis of ESI's business plan. I don't think there is a shred of evidence to support this. Admittedly the involvement of Lee Amis in bringing ESI to the table did encourage this speculation when his name came to light - and I confess my part in that on here. But I am now convinced that this is not his game this time round. Perhaps more importantly, in 2010-14 when he was pushing this model, there were sites, but AFAIK, now, there are not, not on any reasonable time horizon.
@PragueAddick I agree. Unless someone has come up with the bright idea of us sharing the Taxpayers' Stadium?
A capacity between 35-40k is more than enough for us.
anyway I’ve posted my opinion and I’ll say no more on this thread.
(He says, as Nimer is pictured outside O2!!!)
:-(
Becoming souless like the Milton Keynes Stadium? No thank you.
They are still trying to.............
I honestly think I've reached a point in my life when if we move from the Valley they would leave me behind.
To precis Grapevines post, "fucking" "shit" and "bollocks"
But I suspect I have fallen into the troll trap, sorry folks.
F*** going for a drink after the match, I can go to TK Maxx outside the main stand.....................