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Who owns the Valley? - The Ownership Thread

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  • On the other side of this, giving ESI a chance seems to be our only option. I think we should be deeply concerned though. 
    This is basically where I sit with it. I am concerned, but I wonder if the years of lies and half truths have made me more paranoid than I would be usually. I am doing my best to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point and will wait and see what transpires.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    I think it is where we all have to sit.
  • queensland_addick
    queensland_addick Posts: 7,547
    edited January 2020
    I wonder how keen ESI will be to follow through with their commitment to purchase the Valley and the training ground by June/July, if we find ourselves back in League One, and without Bowyer?
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    We have to hope that doesn't happen. Apparently Bowyer is close to signing and relegation is certainly not a certainty. I will feel easier when a few come in though.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 16,912
    There’s no questions need answering


    this is the biggest problem people poking their noses where it’s not needed 

    If people stop looking for negative news stories to break to feel important you will all feel better in the long run 


    disagree. this is a fundamental question. first he says they bought The Valley with Sparrows Lane to follow. now he says that currently they have bought neither. if that doesn't bother you then fine but it sure as hell bothers me. 


    Finding all that out in the first 2 months is important why 

    There’s bitterness and trouble making a foot 

    fall for it at your peril 
    Well shall we just believe everything our new owners say without question even when we find they are not telling us the truth?

    When we have a new chairman and one of the first things he does is paint chairman in a parking space when to my mind their are more important matters(like sorting the pot holes) seems very “weird” to me.

    Dont really feel like a parking space is the issue here
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    I wonder how keen ESI will be to follow through with their commitment to purchase the Valley and the training ground by June/July, if we find ourselves back in League One, and without Bowyer?
    According to Southall it is a contractual commitment - so that could be interesting.
  • Pico said:

    If only we had a supporters trust that could ask these sort of questions.

    Seems to me that it is because CAST did ask questions about ownership of The Valley that this issue has come to light.


    A follow up question on this would have clarified it but I imagine there was a time frame for the interview


  • Pico said:

    If only we had a supporters trust that could ask these sort of questions.

    Seems to me that it is because CAST did ask questions about ownership of The Valley that this issue has come to light.


    A follow up question on this would have clarified it but I imagine there was a time frame for the interview


    Pretty important question though, time frame or not.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,626
    Did we get an answer to the tweet someone sent MS last night. Thought not.

    He can tweet & retweet all the bollox he likes about meeting this person & that person, but the important stuff........nah, he's not interested.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,995
    Did we get an answer to the tweet someone sent MS last night. Thought not.

    He can tweet & retweet all the bollox he likes about meeting this person & that person, but the important stuff........nah, he's not interested.
    No reply to mine.
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  • Did we get an answer to the tweet someone sent MS last night. Thought not.

    He can tweet & retweet all the bollox he likes about meeting this person & that person, but the important stuff........nah, he's not interested.
    I do not do twitter, are you able to show the exchange please?
  • Roland said on TalkSport, he would give the club away providing the new owners brought The Valley & the training ground, so how much did ESI pay Roland?
  • Or..Have they paid Roland anything at this point?In
    Roland said on TalkSport, he would give the club away providing the new owners brought The Valley & the training ground, so how much did ESI pay Roland?
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,995
    edited January 2020
    Did we get an answer to the tweet someone sent MS last night. Thought not.

    He can tweet & retweet all the bollox he likes about meeting this person & that person, but the important stuff........nah, he's not interested.
    I do not do twitter, are you able to show the exchange please?
    There was no exchange. I sent a tweet to Matt Southall (as did Davo55) asking for clarification re The Valley.
    We've not had a reply (which is hardly surprising).

    He has now tweeted CAST's interview with him and a number of people have asked him to clarify.
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Adult Charlton fans asking the important question after the CAST interview revealed an anomaly in Matt Southall's statement that CSI owned Cafc: Lock, stock and Barrel.

    Good question Ladies and gentlemen and it doesn't mean you are incontinent during the night.
  • For tomorrow night.

    "Mr Southall, please confirm Mr Duchatelet owns the freehold of The Valley as of the 24th January 2020".


  • kentred2
    kentred2 Posts: 2,335
    So! Who owns the Valley?
    Freehold / Leasehold
    Pitch and stands / car park
  • Hartleypete
    Hartleypete Posts: 4,699
    Don’t worry it will all be alright in next 6 months🤫
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,801
    So this document on Companies House talks about the mortgaged properties, people with better understand will know 

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01788466/filing-history/MzI1NTQ4OTMxOGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0
  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,651
    edited January 2020
    Rothko said:
    So this document on Companies House talks about the mortgaged properties, people with better understand will know 

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01788466/filing-history/MzI1NTQ4OTMxOGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0
    It looks to me as if there is an effective  mortgage to Staprix, which incorporates the old  directors' loans as a 'permitted encumbrance,' for all the Club property ie The Valley, the training ground and other odds and sods. All the property is described as 'leasehold' so it seems as if Roland (via Staprix ultimately presumably) remains as the freeholder. Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd still shows Duchatelet as having 75% or more significant control which would add credence to that theory.

    What it is hard to tell, although I only skimmed it, is which entity now has legal title over the club 'leasehold property'. Anyone with access to land registry?


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  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,995
    Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd isn't it? 
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
    I understood that the whole 'ownership issue' was made clear to the chosen few at the meeting with Chairman Southall .. or is that not the complete picture ?
  • Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd isn't it? 
    Didn’t think it was, as if the club went under, The Valley would also go. Thought it was Barton, can someone confirm?
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd isn't it? 
    Didn’t think it was, as if the club went under, The Valley would also go. Thought it was Barton, can someone confirm?
    Baton owns CAFC and Charlton Athletic Holdings. Baton is owned by Staprix. 

    It appears ESI have bought CAFC, but not yet CA Holdings (which owns the freehold properties).

    It also appears there's an agreement to buy CA Holdings during the Summer. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd isn't it? 
    Didn’t think it was, as if the club went under, The Valley would also go. Thought it was Barton, can someone confirm?
    The holding company own the land.  Judging by the assets listed against the charge on the football club, the football club own everything bar the pitch and the stands.  Roland now has a charge over the sky box, Bartram's, crossbars, the warehouse etc. 
  • How much are we paying in rent?
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    How much are we paying in rent?
    No-one has shared that information, but the most likely accurate bit of speculation is that there will be no rent.
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,919
    No one “owns” land, you “hold” it.  All you own is moveable assets.

    Clue is in freeHOLD and leaseHOLD. All that matters is the terms of your lease, the rent and who is liable for maintenance. Leasehold carries simiilar risks as a freeholder with a mortgage. Does anyone with a mortgage on their house regard the bank as the “owner”?

    CAFC tenure with the lease property mortgaged is secure given a default on repayments risking eviction is a non issue if the loan is backed by a wealthy guarantor rather than reliant on club revenue..
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,825
    Hello new friend.

    So then, who owns what?
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    Hello new friend.

    So then, who owns what?
    You heartless bastard!